Re: Re: food allergies and crawl space

[Guest guest]

We have a crawl space that was never damp but had a vapor barrier

installed about 4 yrs. ago. Dry as a bone and the vents are closed. Pea gravel

is

all along the edge where the floor meets the wall and the plastic goes about

half way up. We do have a alarm drain under the plumbing just in case of a

leak that I hope NEVER happens. After I got so sick from my school I used

to have horrible nightmares about mold growing in my closets, basement, and

water pouring in. I don't have as many any longer but once in a while I

do.

I have been reading up on waterproofing the basement and there seems to be

a difference of opinion regarding how to treat the crawl space. My

question is, should the crawl space be sealed off or ventilated? Does anyone

recommend having a drainage system with alarm for the crawl space in the case

there is water infiltration or is that being too overly cautious?

[Guest guest]

i have never heard of a structure (home) being built for downward airflow.

In the south, of course, we want hot air from the outside, and that which

builds up in the attic, to freely escape. In the north, the home is

heated, and that air naturally will flow up, it needs venting to escape,

else it will just cause condensation as it is pushed back down and meets

with heavier cool or cold air.

So, if you know can explain to me/us alternate means of circulation, I am

happy to learn.

scott

In the note below, with the attic venting creating all kinds of problems, I

have zero doubt that the attic / roof / soffet assemblies were themselve

either not constructed properly, or something happened to their integrity

over time. Just because an inspector says all is allright and according to

code, well, there are inspectors, and there are INSPECTORS.

scott

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of barb b w

Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:13 PM

Subject: [] Re: food allergies and crawl space

From my experience it depends on the way the building was built whether to

ventilate or not ventilate the attic as this was my 'nut to crack' w my

house. I don't have a crawl space so don't know about that. My house was

built so that air circulated from attic down through house and into

basement. Ventilating the attic caused all kinds of problems of outside air

getting down into the walls of house and condensing. I had them all but two

small ones taken out and those may go eventually.

[Guest guest]

Ah, grasshoppa, now you have added more information. But before I address

that, allow me to share that you do not need to explain the 1st law of

thermodynamics to me. Ive got a pretty strong handle on all this material.

Now, ...initially you mentioned that the air was circulated downward. That

was what made go all exorcist on you,

with my head just spinning all around.

Now you are clearer when you mention that the air is designed to move both

ways, seasonally dependant.

One thing I am still not clear on. When the weather is warm, the home is

usually cooler, but has a hot attic, hence the turbine (as on my home) to

outvent the heat and humidity. Living spaces and attics are tremendously

different temps and humidity levels when the AC is on. Winter in warm areas

sees a much more balanced scenario.

Actually, Im not really grasping your description, as the situation is so

dynamic, Not only seasons, but lattitude plays an enormous part. Let's

let it go for now, I will look at the attachment you sent. Right now, i am

much more concerned with egypt and its far reaching effect internationally.

scott

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of barb b w

Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 12:43 AM

Subject: [] Re: food allergies and crawl space

Hot air, which is high energy air, moves toward cold air, so in the winter

it is from inside the house to outside (stack effect, up and down); in

summer, it reverses direction (sometimes refered to as reverse stack

effect). See diagram below.

I remember reading a post on the internet with this guy being disgusted with

his 'turbine' vent, saying the darn thing is pulling hot air in, rather than

out, and assumed something was wrong w the way the turbine was built or put

in, when it was just doing what all turbines do; out in winter, in in

summer.

[Guest guest]

,

I've seen buildings intentionally built for all sorts of performance

criteria. Usually wrong because they don't have a sound

understanding of building science, materials properties,

psychrometry, microbial biology, climate, and the variable

individuality of people. And how all those interact with each other

in ways which can result in Method A being accurate for one

situtaion but totally wrong in another.

Ventilation of attics is a perfect example. In the humid south it is

best to not vent attic to the outside because you need to keep the

high humidity from coming in. Similar for crawlspaces. But the

techniques to accomplish each is different.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

i have never heard of a structure (home) being built for downward

airflow.

In the south, of course, we want hot air from the outside, and that which

builds up in the attic, to freely escape. In the north, the home is

heated, and that air naturally will flow up, it needs venting to escape,

else it will just cause condensation as it is pushed back down and meets

with heavier cool or cold air.

So, if you know can explain to me/us alternate means of circulation, I am

happy to learn.

scott

In the note below, with the attic venting creating all kinds of problems, I

have zero doubt that the attic / roof / soffet assemblies were themselve

either not constructed properly, or something happened to their

integrity

over time. Just because an inspector says all is allright and according to

code, well, there are inspectors, and there are INSPECTORS.

scott

_____

From:

[mailto: ]

On Behalf Of barb b w

Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:13 PM

Subject: [] Re: food allergies and crawl space

From my experience it depends on the way the building was built

whether to

ventilate or not ventilate the attic as this was my 'nut to crack' w my

house. I don't have a crawl space so don't know about that. My house was

built so that air circulated from attic down through house and into

basement. Ventilating the attic caused all kinds of problems of outside

air

getting down into the walls of house and condensing. I had them all but

two

small ones taken out and those may go eventually.

----------

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[Guest guest]

scott are you a therapist?

In a message dated 2/1/2011 1:10:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

docak@... writes:

,

temper temper. While you are right that the exposure must be circumvented

as

much as possible, if one does not address the core reason, which is a

poorly

functioning liver/gb (and associated) system, then you will fail. Period.

[Guest guest]

,

temper temper. While you are right that the exposure must be circumvented as

much as possible, if one does not address the core reason, which is a poorly

functioning liver/gb (and associated) system, then you will fail. Period.

You will. Especially if you going to stomp around with a tunnel-visioned

attitude. Chinese medicine states that the primary emotion associated with

the liver is anger. So any unresolved, or inappropriately 'resolved' anger

issues in your life, will only serve to suppress liver function. You, and

others, may not want to go with that kind of understanding. And that is

your right. But that does not change the facts. This is how things work.

Emotions change chemistry, & chemistry changes emotion, Your belief system

is irrelevent. Remember that tyeh nocebo effect is twice as potent, at 66%,

as placebo. So if a person thinks themselves to be 'screwed', odds are in

your favor, that they will be.

Do yourself a favor, put some dandelion in your sald. Just for giggles,

ok?

scott

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of carondeen

Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 10:58 AM

Subject: [] Re: food allergies and crawl space

go boil that liver all you want, wont do diddly squat if your crawl space

has microbial growth and you are a sensitive

.

>

I am speaking of a massive aftermarket effort on

the

> part of the sensitive homeowner. membranes, silicon or elastomeric sealants,

and whatever else. This is not

> my profession. I know just what Ive learned form others.

> Personally, to me it makes a great deal more sense to spend great efforts

> cleaning out my liver, etc.

> scott

>

[Guest guest]

Good job KC!

Janet

In a message dated 2/1/2011 7:14:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

tigerpaw2c@... writes:

Me to!! y is no longer with us for many reasons. He is trolling for

patients and was testing mine.

KC

> >

> > ,

> > temper temper. While you are right that the exposure must be

circumvented as

> > much as possible, if one does not address the core reason, which is a

poorly

> > functioning liver/gb (and associated) system, then you will fail.

Period.

> > You will. Especially if you going to stomp around with a

tunnel-visioned

> > attitude. Chinese medicine states that the primary emotion associated

with

> > the liver is anger. So any unresolved, or inappropriately 'resolved'

anger

> > issues in your life, will only serve to suppress liver function. You,

and

> > others, may not want to go with that kind of understanding. And that is

> > your right. But that does not change the facts. This is how things

work.

> > Emotions change chemistry, & chemistry changes emotion, Your belief

system

> > is irrelevent. Remember that tyeh nocebo effect is twice as potent, at

66%,

> > as placebo. So if a person thinks themselves to be 'screwed', odds are

in

> > your favor, that they will be.

> > Do yourself a favor, put some dandelion in your sald. Just for giggles,

> > ok?

> > scott

> > _____

> >

> > From: _ _ (mailto:sickbuild

ings ) [mailto:_ _

(mailto: ) ]

> > On Behalf Of carondeen

> > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 10:58 AM

> > _ _

(mailto: )

> > Subject: [] Re: food allergies and crawl space

> >

> > go boil that liver all you want, wont do diddly squat if your crawl

space

> > has microbial growth and you are a sensitive

> > .

> >

> > --- In _ _

(mailto: )

> > <mailto:%40> , scott einhorn <docak@>

wrote:

> > >

> > I am speaking of a massive aftermarket effort on

> > the

> > > part of the sensitive homeowner. membranes, silicon or elastomeric

sealants, and whatever else. This is not

> > > my profession. I know just what Ive learned form others.

> > > Personally, to me it makes a great deal more sense to spend great

efforts

> > > cleaning out my liver, etc.

> > > scott

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

[Guest guest]

ah, sort of.......depends.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Gingersnap1964@...

Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 1:22 PM

Subject: Re: [] Re: food allergies and crawl space

scott are you a therapist?

In a message dated 2/1/2011 1:10:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

docak@... <mailto:docak%40optimum.net> writes:

,

temper temper. While you are right that the exposure must be circumvented

as

much as possible, if one does not address the core reason, which is a

poorly

functioning liver/gb (and associated) system, then you will fail. Period.

[Guest guest]

---In

osisposis wrote---

getting highly excited now, weither it's in any forms of these emotions can make

me fell quite ill,very quickly.

SAME HERE. I WAS TAUGHT a valuable thing, to have a calm heart. It has made

all the difference.

ap

[Guest guest]

I agree. The statement regarding liver problems was not called for. The

problem is a chronic inflammatory response syndrome that affects all organs of

the body, not just one.

[] Re: food allergies and crawl space

Einhorm: May I suggest to you, if you are genuinely here to help us,

that you get rid of your condescending nature as soon as possible. I am quite

certain others will agree with me here. Thank you. Diane

> >

> I am speaking of a massive aftermarket effort on

> the

> > part of the sensitive homeowner. membranes, silicon or elastomeric

sealants, and whatever else. This is not

> > my profession. I know just what Ive learned form others.

> > Personally, to me it makes a great deal more sense to spend great efforts

> > cleaning out my liver, etc.

> > scott

> >

>

[Guest guest]

good job KC!

Me to!! y is no longer with us for many reasons. He is trolling for

patients and was testing mine.

KC

--- In , " Jack Thrasher, Ph.D. " <toxicologist1@...>

wrote:

>

> I agree. The statement regarding liver problems was not called for. The

problem is a chronic inflammatory response syndrome that affects all organs of

the body, not just one.

>

> [] Re: food allergies and crawl space

>

>

>

> Einhorm: May I suggest to you, if you are genuinely here to help us,

that you get rid of your condescending nature as soon as possible. I am quite

certain others will agree with me here. Thank you. Diane

[Guest guest]

Group - Excellent job with your BS detectors! And your spot-on

responses and challenges. KC and Barb are fantastic. Thanks to

everyone.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

Good job KC!

Janet

In a message dated 2/1/2011 7:14:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

tigerpaw2c@... writes:

Me to!! y is no longer with us for many reasons. He is trolling for

patients and was testing mine.

KC

> >

> > ,

> > temper temper.

[Guest guest]

:-)

> In a message dated 2/1/2011 7:14:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> tigerpaw2c@... writes:

>

> Me to!! y is no longer with us for many reasons. He is trolling for

> patients and was testing mine.

>

> KC