Re: OT: rant: I cannot believe it's all come back

[Guest guest]

AN this is my own theory and Im more than likely wrong but for me the longer Im

in a " sick building " the longer it takes me to recover once I leave. Obviously

the longer I stay out of the sick building the better I feel. Depending on the

length of time that I stay usually determines how long it takes me to become

symptomatic. When Id go to the gym by the time I finished doing cardio i'd start

to feel better but now that I've been breathing the same contaminated air for so

long I never really feel better.

For example I lived in a relatively sterile environment for almost 4 months when

i moved in to our house even though there was mold in the a/c coils it didnt

effect me but as time went on and my immune system became weaker and weaker it

got to the point where it couldn't take anymore which is where Im at today.

The fact that you recovered so quickly is an excellent sign, now you have to

resign yourself to stay away from your condo.

Hope you feel better sooner than later

Tug

>

> Hi all, I'm sorry to be off-topic. I guess I just hope anyone can send a word

of comfort. I am so angry. I left to go to my MIL's, and felt so much better. My

dizziness, vertigo, ear pain, sinus pain, had etc. left. I started Cipro for my

two infections. I had a small episode of allergies from petting and kissing

cats, but otherwise felt, relatively speaking, great. I get back to the moldy

condo, and

[Guest guest]

Yes, it's difficult because it's your home, your comfortable there for other

reason, you want to stay, enemy is invisible, looks like any other place. If

only this were visible. It wouldn't be hard to decide if we came home and found

a monster in our house, would it? We'd run, screaming out the front door. I

have trouble with this too. I was two years reading before I left my house. At

first I felt much better and did work on house and wanted to return and see how

I felt but a friend talked me in to taking an apartment *for a year* that I was

sceptical of doing, that turned out to have it's own problems so I when I

finally came back to my own house I wasn't feeling well, so it started me off

from scratch. I decided I have to stop listening to friends because they may

say they understand but it usually turns out that they do not. In this case

problem was friend had a hard time understanding that it would be hard to tell a

healthy place from a sick one, and also hard to believe that MOST places may

give me a problem. He kept looking for places for me even after I said I didn't

want one. Finally he found some place I thought, Oh well, he did all the work,

least I can do is try it, but started me in the wrong direction. I think it's a

'guy thing', to be able to figure it out better than you, despite the fact you

are discussing with 'experts'. I have to learn to go with my own gut instincts

and decisions, but listening to my 'friend' put me back years because I was

sickly again.

>

> Hi all, I'm sorry to be off-topic. I guess I just hope anyone can send a word

of comfort. I am so angry. I left to go to my MIL's, and felt so much better. My

dizziness, vertigo, ear pain, sinus pain, had etc. left. I started Cipro for my

two infections. I had a small episode of allergies from petting and kissing

cats, but otherwise felt, r

[Guest guest]

Whoosh!  Advocate:  I can only say that there comes a point that your health

and

your reactions mean more than any science or medical " proof. "   I guess I would

compare your question to the insecurity faced by some of the women I counseled

when I was in private practice.  They were married to men who said awful things

to them, who were emotionally abusive and were destroying the very fiber of

these women's souls/psyches.  They carried no " obvious " scars or bruises, like

those who are physically abused.  However, their scars were just as real, the

injuries deeper than surface broken bones.  Even though the women knew

something

was off and that they were unhappy, they were married to men who were

successful, didn't use/abuse alcohol or substances, were charming to the women's

families, and looked--at least, to the casual observer--perfect.  Meanwhile,

the

women were slowly but surely dissolving, immobilized by self-doubt and

depression, but reluctant to leave, especially when family members and friends

thought they were married to a prince.  They were advised to work on

themselves,

to recognize that no one promised that marriage was perfect.  Until they

finally

received the validation from a specialist in trauma and abuse, they doubted

their own experiences...and just as what occurs when some of us seek medical

treatment, we unfortunately receive treatment from professionals who don't

understand/accept the damage that mold/toxins create.  I will say to you what

I

said to the clients who doubted their own experiences and feelings:  Whose

opinion do you need in order to save your own life?  I'll bet your home " looks

good on the outside, " as well.  Is it not enough to accept that your health is

failing in your home?  Whenever I read that someone  " bounces back " when

he/she

leaves the environment, as I once did whenever I left my workplace, I say, " Do

something now!  Before it gets worse!! "   My body no longer bounces back.  I

wish

I had been more aggressive in protecting my own life.  I would have advocated

for my own life the way I advocated for my clients.  It sounds like you still

have the luxury of time on your side,time to listen to the best and most

valuable evidence of all:  your own body.  We must learn to value and respond

to

the very critical messages being sent by our bodies rather than attempt to find

an " expert " who will validate what you're experiencing.  Experts are wonderful,

if they understand and are competent.  Can you hire a toxicologist, someone

like

Jack, or someone like Carl who can evaluate what might be driving your

symptoms?  

The illnesses we suffer are sometimes just as invisible and difficult to

diagnose as the invisible battering that takes place at the hands of an

emotionally abusive partner.  Invisible, perhaps.  But just as real and just

as

damaging!

Good thoughts to you...

sally  

 

________________________________

From: advocate_now <advocate_now@...>

Sent: Sun, September 5, 2010 1:25:26 AM

Subject: [] OT: rant: I cannot believe it's all come back

Hi all, I'm sorry to be off-topic.

[Guest guest]

You are taking an antibiotic which makes mold symptoms worse as they are made

from mold. IMO.  I cannot tolerate them.  The first year I was given IV

antibiotic and I started screaming to get it out as it was literally burninig my

veins and caused severe, severe pain in my arm.   I never let them give

antiiotics again.   

 

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: advocate_now <advocate_now@...>

Sent: Sun, September 5, 2010 4:25:26 AM

Subject: [] OT: rant: I cannot believe it's all come back

 

Hi all, I'm sorry to be off-topic. I guess I just hope anyone can send a word of

comfort. I am so angry.

[Guest guest]

what could possably be more certain of cause and affect than to leave and

recover and go back and become ill again?

you have connected your illness to your home.

if that doesn't convience you to get out and stay out, what else would it take?

staying there until you no longer recover after leaveing? what would you rather

be, a skeptic, or healthly?

what's off topic here? you are one of many who realize there home is makeing

them ill and choose to stay. from the symptoms you are discribeing, I dont think

you have time to be a skeptic.

and if you plan on a lawsuit against anyone over this, staying after you've

connected that it's the home makeing you ill will go against you. as far as a

word of comfort, I'm sorry your home is makeing you ill, you need to get out of

there.

>

> Hi all, I'm sorry to be off-topic. I guess I just hope anyone can send a word

of comfort.

[Guest guest]

yes, yes, YES! That is exactly what happens! It's possibly the best way to know

what is making you sick-if you leave, you feel better. I had a couple of really

good years after I quit working the 2 jobs that were making me sick but then my

house got super moldy and things have never really been the same since.

You know how in surveys they ask " Does your illness make you change the way you

do things or limit your activities? " I always wrote no, absolutely not, but I'm

starting to think, yes, yes it does. It's a hard thing to acknowledge and

depressing too. I'm never going to be " well. "

>

> Hi all, I'm sorry to be off-topic. I guess I just hope anyone can send a word

of comfort. I am so angry. I left to go to my MIL's, and felt so much better. My

dizziness, vertigo, ear pain, sinus pain, had etc. left. I started Cipro for my

two infections. I had a small episode of allergies from petting and kissing

cats, but otherwise felt, relatively speaking, great. I get back to the moldy

condo, and what happens? Some allergies, no big deal, just some eyes weeping,

nose running. Okay, I can deal with that, I think. After all, I have a cat here,

maybe she's made me sick and I'll just have a few allergy symptoms like at my

MIL's. Maybe most of my symptoms were related to the infections, I think. Maybe

they seemed worse than they really were, I reason. Oh, no. Symptoms after

symptoms have piled up through the night. My skin itches all over, my ear canals

feel like someone is drilling through them, the bridge of my nose and cheeks

feel like a fist is inside, pushing out against my skin. My skin starts burning

up, I feel really sick, and for the first time I have a fever. I'm just so

upset. I don't know how much more evidence I need, or how many more times it

will take for me to leave and feel halfway normal again, only to return and feel

the onslaught, for me to realize that this building is sick. Sick to me, sick to

my cat, sick to my husband (though not as much as to me).

>

> Does this happen to anyone else--do you go through this thing where you leave,

feel better, start thinking it's not as bad as you think, and then return and

wonder why in the heck you ever questioned yourself?

>

> It's just so hard because I am an evidence-based person, a skeptic at heart.

This whole thing puts me into mental gymnastics. I have my own evidence--at

least, a strong correlation, which is all anybody has without absolute cause and

effect--but it is so hard for me because as has been said so often, I will never

have certainty. I suppose nothing is certain, though. There is evidence for all

sorts of scientific theory we accept as fact, but not necessarily a

cause-and-effect-level of certainty. Sigh.

>

> Thanks for reading.

>

[Guest guest]

I would disagree. I would say you absolutely have certainty..your symptoms

returning. Your body is speaking to you. You are experiencing exactly what Dr.

Rea writes about in his books. He says to be certain your home/office is to

blame for you being sick, you leave for at least 3 days, 5 or more is even

better, and upon returning if your symptoms are eventually all back,

then...there is your answer. I would say you are a classic case of what he is

describing. The hard part is accepting it, believe me, I know~ D

>

> Hi all, I'm sorry to be off-topic. I guess I just hope anyone can send a word

of comfort. I am so angry. I left to go to my MIL's, and felt so much better. My

dizziness, vertigo, ear pain, sinus pain, had etc. left. I started Cipro for my

two infections. I had a small episode of allergies from petting and kissing

cats, but otherwise felt, relatively speaking, great. I get back to the moldy

condo, and what happens? Some allergies, no big deal, just some eyes weeping,

nose running. Okay, I can deal with that, I think. After all, I have a cat here,

maybe she's made me sick and I'll just have a few allergy symptoms like at my

MIL's. Maybe most of my symptoms were related to the infections, I think. Maybe

they seemed worse than they really were, I reason. Oh, no. Symptoms after

symptoms have piled up through the night. My skin itches all over, my ear canals

feel like someone is drilling through them, the bridge of my nose and cheeks

feel like a fist is inside, pushing out against my skin. My skin starts burning

up, I feel really sick, and for the first time I have a fever. I'm just so

upset. I don't know how much more evidence I need, or how many more times it

will take for me to leave and feel halfway normal again, only to return and feel

the onslaught, for me to realize that this building is sick. Sick to me, sick to

my cat, sick to my husband (though not as much as to me).

>

> Does this happen to anyone else--do you go through this thing where you leave,

feel better, start thinking it's not as bad as you think, and then return and

wonder why in the heck you ever questioned yourself?

>

> It's just so hard because I am an evidence-based person, a skeptic at heart.

This whole thing puts me into mental gymnastics. I have my own evidence--at

least, a strong correlation, which is all anybody has without absolute cause and

effect--but it is so hard for me because as has been said so often, I will never

have certainty. I suppose nothing is certain, though. There is evidence for all

sorts of scientific theory we accept as fact, but not necessarily a

cause-and-effect-level of certainty. Sigh.

>

> Thanks for reading.

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you. It is taking longer for me to recover when I leave and the symptoms

returning faster. I did not know it happened like that; there's still a lot I

don't understand about what's happening to me. I know you've been through a

lot--thank you for taking the time to respond.

On Sep 5, 2010, at 9:05 AM, " Tug " <tug_slug@...> wrote:

AN this is my own theory and Im more than likely wrong but for me the longer Im

in a " sick building " the longer it takes me to recover once I leave. Obviously

the longer I stay out of the sick building the better I feel. Depending on the

length of time that I stay usually determines how long it takes me to become

symptomatic. When Id go to the gym by the time I finished doing cardio i'd start

to feel better but now that I've been breathing the same contaminated air for so

long I never really feel better.

For example I lived in a relatively sterile environment for almost 4 months when

i moved in to our house even though there was mold in the a/c coils it didnt

effect me but as time went on and my immune system became weaker and weaker it

got to the point where it couldn't take anymore which is where Im at today.

The fact that you recovered so quickly is an excellent sign, now you have to

resign yourself to stay away from your condo.

Hope you feel better sooner than later

Tug

[Guest guest]

I think that's part of why it's been hard for me--here and there I've looked at

rentals and for one reason or another they scream " mold " to me. But I know I

have to try something else. I can't just sit here and wait for it to get worse.

Thanks for your insight. It helps to know what others have been through.

On Sep 5, 2010, at 11:48 AM, " barb b w " <barb1283@...> wrote:

Yes, it's difficult because it's your home, your comfortable there for other

reason, you want to stay, enemy is invisible, looks like any other place. If

only this were visible. It wouldn't be hard to decide if we came home and found

a monster in our house, would it? We'd run, screaming out the front door. I have

trouble with this too. I was two years reading before I left my house. At first

I felt much better and did work on house and wanted to return and see how I felt

but a friend talked me in to taking an apartment *for a year* that I was

sceptical of doing, that turned out to have it's own problems so I when I

finally came back to my own house I wasn't feeling well, so it started me off

from scratch. I decided I have to stop listening to friends because they may say

they understand but it usually turns out that they do not. In this case problem

was friend had a hard time

[Guest guest]

I lost my job and it was all covered up. It was on a government facility

Janet

In a message dated 9/5/2010 9:37:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

dianebolton@... writes:

I would disagree. I would say you absolutely have certainty..your symptoms

returning. Your body is speaking to you. You are experiencing exactly what

Dr. Rea writes about in his books. He says to be certain your home/office

is to blame for you being sick, you leave for at least 3 days, 5 or more is

even better, and upon returning if your symptoms are eventually all back,

then...there is your answer. I would say you are a classic case of what he

is describing. The hard part is accepting it, believe me, I know~ D

[Guest guest]

AN Im going to start hotel jumping this coming week, it's obvious that the

longer I stay in this house the worst Im going to get. I guess I should consider

myself lucky in that my worst and about only symptom is brain fog but its so bad

that its gotten to the point that its difficult to drive.

All Im going to take with me is my laptop minus the case, hopefully it's not

contaminated if it is Im basically screwed, it's my only communication with the

outside world.

>

> Thank you. It is taking longer for me to recover when I leave and the symptoms

returning faster. I did not know it happened like that; there's still a lot I

don't understand about what's happening to me. I know you've been through a

lot--thank you for taking the time to respond.

>

[Guest guest]

TUg,

happy safe travels, hope you find a great new safe place to hang your

hat... sue v

>

>AN Im going to start hotel jumping this coming week, it's obvious that

>the longer I stay in this house the worst Im going to get. I guess I

[Guest guest]

antibiotics give me thrush and vaginal yeast infecrtions

Janet

In a message dated 9/7/2010 1:37:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

jeaninem660@... writes:

not all antibiotics are made from mold.

[Guest guest]

I took antibiotics a lot over the 7 years I was exposed to mold because my sinus

infections were bacteria in nature. I only had a couple which were fungal. I

would get better on the antibiotics but would only get sick again once they were

done with. It was not until I got out of the offending house that I was able to

get rid of the infection and keep it away. I used a high dosage of antibiotics

the last time. I have always taken probotics so thankfully, I did not have

serious side effects with antibiotics. I still have to take an antibiotic

every now and then but not near as much as I once had to. Maybe, once or twice a

year.

>

> You are taking an antibiotic which makes mold symptoms worse as they are made

> from mold. IMO. <SNIP>

[Guest guest]

not all antibiotics are made from mold.

> >

> > You are taking an antibiotic which makes mold symptoms worse as they are

made

> > from mold. IMO. <SNIP>

>

[Guest guest]

Antibiotics are also made from various bacteria of the Actinomycetes. These

bacteria are also the sources of cancer chemotherapeutic agents. Thus

actinomycin can be derived from mold as well as actinomycetes as an example.

[] Re: OT: rant: I cannot believe it's all come back

not all antibiotics are made from mold.

[Guest guest]

I guess if you have a bacterial infection and not fungal then that is the

course. However Dr never (regular ones) for a culture of what is causing

infection they just prescribe antibiotics. 

I my case I left everything as anything that moved made me ill.  (airborne)  I

had a toxic soup at home.   Unless it was something that was packed. Which was

close to nothing.  Everything is still there. 

 

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: CU <jackiebreeze@...>

Sent: Tue, September 7, 2010 12:42:19 PM

Subject: [] Re: OT: rant: I cannot believe it's all come back

 

I took antibiotics a lot over the 7 years I was exposed to mold because my sinus

infections were bacteria in nature. I only had a couple which were fungal. I

would get better on the antibiotics but would only get sick again once they were

done with. It was not until I got out of the offending house that I was able to

get rid of the infection and keep it away. I used a high dosage of antibiotics

the last time. I have always taken probotics so thankfully, I did not have

serious side effects with antibiotics. I still have to take an antibiotic every

now and then but not near as much as I once had to. Maybe, once or twice a year.

>

> You are taking an antibiotic which makes mold symptoms worse as they are made

> from mold. IMO. <SNIP>

[Guest guest]

I shouldn't generalize.  Besides Doxycycline which aren't ?

 

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: osisposis <jeaninem660@...>

Sent: Tue, September 7, 2010 1:09:04 PM

Subject: [] Re: OT: rant: I cannot believe it's all come back

 

not all antibiotics are made from mold.

[Guest guest]

, yes, so can WDB's. you would think that would have been a big clue a long

time ago for reconizing what some molds and mycotoxins can do in WDB's. crazy

that there was ever any controvercy about it.

> antibiotics give me thrush and vaginal yeast infecrtions

> Janet

[Guest guest]

When you say doxy is not made from mold, are you including the whole

tetracylcine family or just Doxy?

>

> I shouldn't generalize.  Besides Doxycycline which aren't ?

>  

>

> God Bless !!

> dragonflymcs

> Mayleen

>

> ________________________________

> From: osisposis <jeaninem660@...>

>

> Sent: Tue, September 7, 2010 1:09:04 PM

> Subject: [] Re: OT: rant: I cannot believe it's all come back

>

>  

> not all antibiotics are made from mold.

>

[Guest guest]

Doxy is the only one I know is safer. How it is made I have not looked it up. 

I

use garlic.  I have taken it in low dose and did not have a problem.  To be

safer I now use garlic.  try to keep me in check.  But stuff happens.  

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: barb b w <barb1283@...>

Sent: Tue, September 7, 2010 4:41:24 PM

Subject: [] Re: OT: rant: I cannot believe it's all come back

 

When you say doxy is not made from mold, are you including the whole

tetracylcine family or just Doxy?