Re: magic potion

[Guest guest]

Jeanine,

Its not just in that group.. I didnt even know about that group when I met the

man in the gro store or talked with an " extreme responder " on another board.

Its part of the mold culture I think. (haha?)

I agree the word " extreme " is alarming and you make good points, but you sound

angry at where Tug is in this thinking(and me for that matter) and what they

are thinking, processing. Does one need to choose groups?

You all can certainly ban the word " extreme " from the group. Its one solution.

Robin

> >

> >

> >

> > I agree, I dont think you can completely avoid mold but you have to limit

your exposure in an extreme way. In my own mold filled fogged brain Im always

trying to eliminate more than Im taking in, the only way IMO to do that is to

practice extreme avoidance.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

So what your saying is if theres mold in the a/c coils and the fan is on there's

no chance that the spores that come from the mold cant contaminate the rest of

the house?

Just knowing that you are so much more intelligent than the people I hired to

come and check my place out makes me feel so much better. Had I known you were

the mold guru of not just sick buildings but the entire free world I wouldnt

have wasted my money when I hired Carl and asked him to give me his professional

opinion on what was making me sick.

From now on DO NOT REPLY TO ANY OF MY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS or CONCERNS. My

questions are directed to other members as it has become apparent to me that you

cannot respond without being offensive.

>

> what part do you not get?

> the word extreme just causes stress, advoidance is advoidance, if you dont do

it, your not getting better.

>

> cross contamination is a very limmited thing,if it even happens at all. and

every time you fell bad it is not because of cross contamination.

>

> Carl spent alot of time trying to get you to understand.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Robin were all your ailments that you just mentioned brought on by mold?

>

> I hve that too and thought it was lyme. May be for me. I have CFS, ALS/MS type

symptoms. Pretty scary right now. I used to work out 3-5 days a week and now I

cant clean my own house and my best friend, worst enemy is my sofa. Neuro

inflammation comes and goes, so generally I can process.. when I get neuro

inflammation flares or hits I have the emotions flare or bottom out, brain fog,

memory dropping out. One day I woke up and forgot my kids names.. it was like I

had amnesia. ive had similar memory issues happen.. where memory just drops off

into blankness. POTS.OI symptoms cause crazy feeling symptoms. Very weak arms

and legs, breathless drives me insane at times. Shoemaker labs soon.

>

> Robin

[Guest guest]

I have to agree with Tug. I have now read three separate posts in which you have

told someone to stop using this term or that term and that you're tired of this

or that. When it was one message, I hit delete and moved on. When it was another

message, I was shocked with your swearing and harsh tone, but I hit delete and

moved on. Now, with a third message, I cannot hold my tongue. You cannot control

what other people think or say. You don't have the right to tell them their

values ( in the case of Robin) are wrong, nor do you have the right to shame

someone because in your eyes no one can " get him to understand. " I am shocked.

Especially because these posts come on the heels of another shocking post the

other day, the sole purpose of which was to castigate Robin for privately

emailing you and to tell her not to email you or other group members again.

I've read some valuable things in your posts, but I've equally read some very

rude things. I've no doubt that you've had a long and important role here but I

also think that doesn't give you permission to be rude or cruel.

Perhaps you are going through a particularly difficult time right now. If so, I

look forward to when you feel better.

On Aug 20, 2010, at 9:19 PM, " osisposis " <jeaninem660@...> wrote:

what part do you not get?

the word extreme just causes stress, advoidance is advoidance, if you dont do

it, your not getting better.

cross contamination is a very limmited thing,if it even happens at all. and

every time you fell bad it is not because of cross contamination.

Carl spent alot of time trying to get you to understand.

>>

> I used the term cross contamination because thats the way it was explained to

my by individuals who make a living by eliminating mold from your residence

>

> If your not happy with the terms that I use or the way that I use them the

please by all means skip my reply and go to the next response.

[Guest guest]

Loss of balance and neck pain and swelling is often the result of being

neuro-toxic. Many things can cause neuro-toxicity. CFS, MS mold exposure and

chemical exposure to name a few. It is my balance or lack of, that tells me when

to remove myself asap from an area. Mine improved greatly with detox, mainly

sauna. D

>

> I hve that too and thought it was lyme. May be for me. I have CFS, ALS/MS type

symptoms. Pretty scary right now. I used to work out 3-5 days a week and now I

cant clean my own house and my best friend, worst enemy is my sofa. Neuro

inflammation comes and goes, so generally I can process.. when I get neuro

inflammation flares or hits I have the emotions flare or bottom out, brain fog,

memory dropping out. One day I woke up and forgot my kids names.. it was like I

had amnesia. ive had similar memory issues happen.. where memory just drops off

into blankness. POTS.OI symptoms cause crazy feeling symptoms. Very weak arms

and legs, breathless drives me insane at times. Shoemaker labs soon.

>

> Robin

[Guest guest]

I dont care who else Robin emails, and I never told her to quit emailing anybody

else. I asked her 3 times politely not to email me, but she continued to do so.

as far as Tug is concerned, many have spent considerable time explaining things

to him, the problems may lie in his jumping back and forth between two groups

and what he basicly wants to believe even though he has been told over and over

again that it's not correct.

I'm usually very nice but when you spend time trying to help someone and than

they choose to go to another cite and come back here and show that all the time

you spent trying to help them didn't mean anything, yes, I get aggervated.

yes, it gets very old repeating things over and over but many of us do it, but

when you have to, over and over again to the same person, it gets very old very

quick.

and when it goes in one ear and out the other, basicly I'm done talking. when I

first came here there wasn't any answers for all the questions people had, it's

came a long way and many have spent alot of hours researching to find answers,

newbees come here and just exspect everybody to help them, and they do, when

they dont take the time to try to soak it in and apply what they learn and just

cast it aside, than they cant exspect people to keep trying, some people never

stop to consider just how much effort and time others have put into this issue

and finding answers.

I started asking people here not to email me a long time ago, most respected my

wishes,like I said, I'm not doing it to be rude, I have other things going on

besides this, I have reasons why I dont want any emails, I dont have to explain

why.

I exspect people to show a little curtisy.

now sometimes,when all else fails, you just have to get kind of rude to make

people stop and think a little bit.

I felt that maybe at this point that was exactly what Tug needed,

it was to a point of do or die trying situation.

if it in any way helped him step back and consider all the information he had

been given from this group, than thats a good thing, if not, than yes, I'm not

waisting any more time on it.

and I do have a right to speak my mind just like everyone else here does. I'm

sorry for the swearing and to those who never swear I understand that it may

offend them. I've been in some email loops where the swearing got so bad it

offended me, so I do understand,

thats one other reason I've asked not to be recieveing emails from anyone.

> >>

> > I used the term cross contamination because thats the way it was explained

to my by individuals who make a living by eliminating mold from your residence

> >

> > If your not happy with the terms that I use or the way that I use them the

please by all means skip my reply and go to the next response.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Me too Daine, even if sometimes the exposure doesn't included something I can

smell, and I dont have a obvious immediate reaction, I can tell something

getting to me when my balance starts getting worse.

> >

> > I hve that too and thought it was lyme. May be for me. I have CFS, ALS/MS

type symptoms. Pretty scary right now. I used to work out 3-5 days a week and

now I cant clean my own house and my best friend, worst enemy is my sofa. Neuro

inflammation comes and goes, so generally I can process.. when I get neuro

inflammation flares or hits I have the emotions flare or bottom out, brain fog,

memory dropping out. One day I woke up and forgot my kids names.. it was like I

had amnesia. ive had similar memory issues happen.. where memory just drops off

into blankness. POTS.OI symptoms cause crazy feeling symptoms. Very weak arms

and legs, breathless drives me insane at times. Shoemaker labs soon.

> >

> > Robin

>

[Guest guest]

Sue,

Jin Shin Therapy sounds really amazing.  Would you mind, only when you have

time, posting me privately about it? I'd like to learn more. It sounds

fascinating. 

Thanks,Sam

I do Jin Shin therapy-twice a week when I'm really sick-once a week for

maintenance. It saved my life because it builds up your resistance. But the

truth is, one really bad exposure and I'm back to square one.

[Guest guest]

Forgive me if I'm asking something that has been widely accepted for years, but

I'm reading about sauna treatments being super effective.  My doctor referred

me

for this treatment, but I would have to travel, and driving continues to be a

challenge.  Does anyone know of good sauna treatments that are portable,

etc.? 

Thanks...sally

>

> Loss of balance and neck pain and swelling is often the result of being

>neuro-toxic. Many things can cause neuro-toxicity. CFS, MS mold exposure and

>chemical exposure to name a few. It is my balance or lack of, that tells me

when

>to remove myself asap from an area. Mine improved greatly with detox, mainly

>sauna. D

>

[Guest guest]

you buy your own sauna, heavenly heat saunas, google and you will find,

are usually well tolerated. sue v.

>Forgive me if I'm asking something that has been widely accepted for

>years, but

>I'm reading about sauna treatments being super effective.  My doctor

>referred me

>for this treatment, but I would have to travel, and driving continues

to be a

>challenge.  Does anyone know of good sauna treatments that are portable,

[Guest guest]

What in the world are talking about? How could you possibly know what groups I

belong to, are you stalking me? Just to let you know I do belong to two groups,

the first being sick buildings and the other is a forum about Tacoma trucks

which has nothing to do with mold, the members there dont even know about the

mold problem even though ive been a member there for over 4 years.

Once again if you see a thread/post of mine dont read it. I cant speak for Robin

but my day would be much less aggravating if you didn't respond to my questions.

I even went as far as telling you not asking you but TELLING YOU to not respond

to my post. Had you not mentioned my name in this thread I would have never read

your post much less replied.

I have to admit I get upset by some of the questions some of the members ask

here but I dont go out of my way to belittle that person just to justify my

existence on a forum that will go on long after your gone.

as far as Tug is concerned, many have spent considerable time explaining things

to him, the problems may lie in his jumping back and forth between two groups

and what he basicly wants to believe even though he has been told over and over

again that it's not correct.

[Guest guest]

Diane your a wealth of information... thank you.

Im doing the best I can at detoxing, im going to take it a step further and go

check out an apartment today hopefully it doesnt have any mold issues. I just

started going to the sauna a couple of weeks ago but I cant stay in for longer

than 15 minutes if I try to go for any longer than that I get really light

headed

>

> Loss of balance and neck pain and swelling is often the result of being

neuro-toxic. Many things can cause neuro-toxicity. CFS, MS mold exposure and

chemical exposure to name a few. It is my balance or lack of, that tells me when

to remove myself asap from an area. Mine improved greatly with detox, mainly

sauna. D

[Guest guest]

ok kids time to make nice we are all here for the same thing to share

and get ideas and to hopefully improved.

Janet

In a message dated 8/21/2010 6:34:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

jeaninem660@... writes:

and Tug, I was not responding to one of your posts, I was responding to a

post by someone else, who also accused me of some I said that I didn't, I

never once told Robin not to email other members of the group.

>

>What in the world are talking about? How could you possibly know what

groups I belong to,

>

[Guest guest]

I dont know. I have babesia.. positive for that one. Lyme is a clinical

diagnosis based on cd57, symptoms and response to abx (herx reaction)... looking

back.. I had quiate a few spider bites as a child, Im sure tons of mold expsure

actually remember one as a small child at a camp ground and being grossed out by

the bathroom and I was a toddler.. lots more..

Ive been reading shoemakers book.. he is hard to read.. scary hard, not hard to

comprehend.. he scares me.. he has passion but he is lacking some sense of

empathy for the HLAs.. talking about evolutionary selection in such a cold way..

he is where some of the fears are coming from as much as he has contributed, he

is also contributing fear. Its the way he says things. Im getting I am doomed

from reading him and he does seem nto advocate the idea of an " extreme

responder. "

These are people who have not resolved MMP-9, MSH, C3a issues. I have the low

msh gene combined with a " dreaded " as he so harshly terms it.. me. He says as

long as you are not resolved on these labs, you will be an extreme responder..

not his terminology but thats what he is saying quite clearly.

So I see where the fear is coming from because I am feeling it coming from *the*

expert. I dont know hot to process this right now and wish Dr T and Carl were

still on the list.

At one point Shoemaker talks about Phil Ness, one of his clients, going off into

a conversation with the Harley riding bald muscle man trainer about how if Phil

were younger he would not be able to have children most likely (energy, ability

to get a mate, etc) and thus natural selection of humans but toxins, esp since

Phil seemnigly has not working mitochondria which makes him LESS THAN HUMAN. ont

that ont being human is bad if you respect all life, but the implication is

there and sickening coming from a physician.. I can see this coming from a

scientist who does not work with human beings in the role of a healer.. but even

then, would think how cold.

Also, Tug, Lyme is an infection that will continually produce biotoxins.. I am

multisuseptable which means mold and all other biotoxins.. talk a bout cross

contamination.. I will always be cross contaminated.. lyme never just goes

away.. you get it under control.

The goal it seems is to get those markers I mentioned above in order.. have you

tested these and how are they for you?

Robin

> >

> > I hve that too and thought it was lyme. May be for me. I have CFS, ALS/MS

type symptoms. Pretty scary right now. I used to work out 3-5 days a week and

now I cant clean my own house and my best friend, worst enemy is my sofa. Neuro

inflammation comes and goes, so generally I can process.. when I get neuro

inflammation flares or hits I have the emotions flare or bottom out, brain fog,

memory dropping out. One day I woke up and forgot my kids names.. it was like I

had amnesia. ive had similar memory issues happen.. where memory just drops off

into blankness. POTS.OI symptoms cause crazy feeling symptoms. Very weak arms

and legs, breathless drives me insane at times. Shoemaker labs soon.

> >

> > Robin

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you... I was surprised to hear that neck pain can be from the toxins..

this is good to know. If i have lyme, then I am dealing with toxins constantly

or sporadically as they are being dumped as killed of naturally die off. This

add a new dimension to my symptoms.. I;ll start taking more note of my

environment and potential triggers. I was surprised as well that joint pain can

be a symptoms of neurotoxns.. After I had a short round of flagyl a few years

ago, I close to lost my gait. Crazy crazy nerve feelings all over my body .. at

that time I could tolerate IV glut and myers cocktails and that pulled me out.

What kind of sauna do you use, Diane? ANd detox?

Robin

>

> Loss of balance and neck pain and swelling is often the result of being

neuro-toxic. Many things can cause neuro-toxicity. CFS, MS mold exposure and

chemical exposure to name a few. It is my balance or lack of, that tells me when

to remove myself asap from an area. Mine improved greatly with detox, mainly

sauna. D

[Guest guest]

Jeannine: You have been a huge asset to this group. I have learned alot from the

articles that you post the links to on here and know the hours that you have

spent doing research for all of us. Keep up the good work! D

[Guest guest]

Excuse me? Are you accusing me of harassing you offline? You have got to be

kidding me. We had a conversation and you warned me about the extreme responders

group.. it seemed with much care and concern and I let you know I did join

recently and I felt OK with it.. Thats about how that went down.

I was shocked you brought up a private conversation on list and never had a clue

you felt harassed which is what you are implying.

I only opened this email because I knew I was in the thread. I am not opening

your emails again.

Robin

>

> I dont care who else Robin emails, and I never told her to quit emailing

anybody else. I asked her 3 times politely not to email me, but she continued to

do so.

> as far as Tug is concerned, many have spent considerable time explaining

things to him, the problems may lie in his jumping back and forth between two

groups and what he basicly wants to believe even though he has been told over

and over again that it's not correct.

> I'm usually very nice but when you spend time trying to help someone and than

they choose to go to another cite and come back here and show that all the time

you spent trying to help them didn't mean anything, yes, I get aggervated.

yes, it gets very old repeating things over and over but many of us do it, but

when you have to, over and over again to the same person, it gets very old very

quick.

> and when it goes in one ear and out the other, basicly I'm done talking.

[Guest guest]

If you can tolerate plastics, they sell portable saunas on Ebay but I would not

recommend them if you have MCS.

> >

> > Loss of balance and neck pain and swelling is often the result of being

> >neuro-toxic. Many things can cause neuro-toxicity. CFS, MS mold exposure and

> >chemical exposure to name a few. It is my balance or lack of, that tells me

when

> >to remove myself asap from an area. Mine improved greatly with detox, mainly

> >sauna. D

> >

>

[Guest guest]

so dont read mine.

>

> What in the world are talking about? How could you possibly know what groups I

belong to, are you stalking me? Just to let you know I do belong to two groups,

the first being sick buildings and the other is a forum about Tacoma trucks

which has nothing to do with mold, the members there dont even know about the

mold problem even though ive been a member there for over 4 years.

>

> Once again if you see a thread/post of mine dont read it. I cant speak for

Robin but my day would be much less aggravating if you didn't respond to my

questions. I even went as far as telling you not asking you but TELLING YOU to

not respond to my post. Had you not mentioned my name in this thread I would

have never read your post much less replied.

>

> I have to admit I get upset by some of the questions some of the members ask

here but I dont go out of my way to belittle that person just to justify my

existence on a forum that will go on long after your gone.

>

>

[Guest guest]

and Tug, I was not responding to one of your posts, I was responding to a post

by someone else, who also accused me of some I said that I didn't, I never once

told Robin not to email other members of the group.

> as far as Tug is concerned, many have spent considerable time explaining

things to him, the problems may lie in his jumping back and forth between two

groups and what he basicly wants to believe even though he has been told over

and over again that it's not correct.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks D, that means alot to me.

>

> Jeannine: You have been a huge asset to this group. I have learned alot from

the articles that you post the links to on here and know the hours that you have

spent doing research for all of us. Keep up the good work! D

>

[Guest guest]

Robin, I told you in the first email that I not not like getting emails, I said

I perfer that questions be addressed to the group and that way you get more than

one answer.

I did voice my consern about you going to the extreme responders group

, because you have been telling everyone that you are very confused and very

stressed out.

if somebody else wants to jump on the Tug bandwagon, and attack me, I sujest

they read my posts very carefully first and stop reading things into them that

aren't there.

end of discution.

> >

> > I dont care who else Robin emails, and I never told her to quit emailing

anybody else. I asked her 3 times politely not to email me, but she continued to

do so.

> > as far as Tug is concerned, many have spent considerable time explaining

things to him, the problems may lie in his jumping back and forth between two

groups and what he basicly wants to believe even though he has been told over

and over again that it's not correct.

> > I'm usually very nice but when you spend time trying to help someone and

than they choose to go to another cite and come back here and show that all the

time you spent trying to help them didn't mean anything, yes, I get aggervated.

yes, it gets very old repeating things over and over but many of us do it, but

when you have to, over and over again to the same person, it gets very old very

quick.

> > and when it goes in one ear and out the other, basicly I'm done talking.

>

[Guest guest]

I spent a whole year at Dr. Rea's clinic and did sauna in a Heavenly Heat

infra-red sauna daily for one hour at 160*. I had to work up to that obviously

as you need to start slow and acclimate your body to it. I am a great sweater as

Dr. R put it which is why I had such success with detoxing that way. Not all

patients sweat well and some do not at all,what he calls non-sweaters. You can

read about detox benefits on their web site. www.heavenlyheatsaunas.com They

are designed specifically for folks with MCS.

>

> Thank you... I was surprised to hear that neck pain can be from the toxins..

this is good to know. If i have lyme, then I am dealing with toxins constantly

or sporadically as they are being dumped as killed of naturally die off. This

add a new dimension to my symptoms.. I;ll start taking more note of my

environment and potential triggers. I was surprised as well that joint pain can

be a symptoms of neurotoxns.. After I had a short round of flagyl a few years

ago, I close to lost my gait. Crazy crazy nerve feelings all over my body .. at

that time I could tolerate IV glut and myers cocktails and that pulled me out.

What kind of sauna do you use, Diane? ANd detox?

>

> Robin

>

[Guest guest]

I wish I possessed the brain and ability to find the cause/treatment for these

symptoms.  In all of the research I've currently done, what I've discovered is

that even well-regarded scientists disagree about lab tests and treatment

protocol.  I worry about one person assuming to know what will work for

EVERYONE

and diagnosing/determining the genetic strength or worth of another.  I

actually

feel grateful now to have not read Shoemaker's book.  I was going to last week,

but I read here--thanks, folks--that his work was considered outdated in many

ways.  If that is the case, why do so many folks still adhere to his theory? 

Not a judgment or accusation here--just wondering.  Remember, I'm new to this

field, so bear with my questions.  There is no agenda behind them, just a

curiosity about the evolution of the field.  I do know that Shoemaker has most

certainly earned a place in the field and is regarded as a " mover and shaker "

in

the field.  I'm not sure if you read the recent published paper, but it seemed

that what seems lacking is the OBJECTIVE position that scientific method

mandates.  I don't know Dr. Shoemaker, but I know that at this point in my

life,

I certainly can't handle accepting some kind of theory that deems

me genetically

inferior.  I actually feel thankful I don't know about the DREADED component

(again, I've never heard a scientist use these " SUBJECTIVE "  and alarming

terms) discussed here.  I feel so blessed to be treated by someone who

hesitates

to assume she knows exactly how I will react and who humbly affirms that there

is a lot that she and other experts in the field have to learn from us, their

patients.  Our responses--on tests and to treatments--should drive the science

and allow it to evolve, in my opinion.  I'm wondering how some of his research

passed the peer review process, to be honest with you.  So sorry that this book

further hurt someone who is already suffering--that's my psychological training

at work.  Why would a healthcare provider further injure someone already in

pain?  I don't get it...ah, well.  Sometimes, maybe ignorance is bliss, eh? 

Again, I'm responding to what I've read here and haven't read his work, so my

reaction is not coming from a wealth of knowledge, just a reaction to what

research can do to folks in the middle of a health crisis already.  Sally

________________________________

From: listspub <listspub@...>

Sent: Sat, August 21, 2010 12:07:23 PM

Subject: [] Re: magic potion

 

I dont know. I have babesia.. positive for that one. Lyme is a clinical

diagnosis based on cd57, symptoms and response to abx (herx reaction)... looking

back.. I had quiate a few spider bites as a child, Im sure tons of mold expsure

actually remember one as a small child at a camp ground and being grossed out by

the bathroom and I was a toddler.. lots more..

Ive been

[Guest guest]

The problem is he has the science. He has the labs. He has the " cure " . (and

there are others but they are not as strong working.. I think possibly Rea uses

another method). He is not all bad.. its the way he words things that are not

helpful. He's trying ti get the word out to the scientific, environmental,

medical community but.. terms like " dreaded " are not scientific even and not

helpful. Also using a patient as an example then going off remembering a

conversation he had with someone about the patient and mitochrondrial damage

with low vegf regarding that person as if talking about a science experiment is

not helpful.. it speculation at that point because we dont even know how natural

selection works anymore when you bring in quantum physical realities or if you

want to delve further into all the genes and critters out there that coudl get

any of us and " naturally select us out " . Its just not helpful speculation.. its

talk that disrepects the patients and sufferers. That said.. its a good book for

info. You can possibly view his you tubes posted on his site and get al the info

you need. Im not sure howoutdated the book is unless he has had more expeience

with " dreadeds " to share.

www.biotoxin.info (go to resources)

Robin

>

> I wish I possessed the brain and ability to find the cause/treatment for these

> symptoms.  In all of the research I've currently done, what I've discovered

is

> that even well-regarded scientists disagree about lab tests and treatment

> protocol.  I worry about one person assuming to know what will work for

EVERYONE

> and diagnosing/determining the genetic strength or worth of another.  I

actually

> feel grateful now to have not read Shoemaker's book.  I was going to last

week,

> but I read here--thanks, folks--that his work was considered outdated in many

> ways.  If that is the case, why do so many folks still adhere to his

theory? 

> Not a judgment or accusation here--just wondering.