RE: food allergies and crawl space

[Guest guest]

I tried kinesiology and it was helping but had to stop because insurance

doesn't cover and it got too exspensive

In a message dated 1/31/2011 1:44:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

momoko_uno@... writes:

Hello!

I just joined the group and am both excited and saddened to read all the

posts. Excited to learn more about mold and saddened to hear about how so

many people have been suffering from mold exposure.

I have 2 questions. The first is regarding food allergies and the second

question is regarding crawl space.

I was exposed to mold for at least 2 years. Air quality tests revealed

that I had been exposed to many different species of mold, including

stachybotrus and chaetomium. I developed seizures, severe pain, unremitting

diarrhea, vomiting, severe nausea, fatigue, headaches, anxiety, panic attacks,

food

allergies, dizziness, low blood pressure etc. At one point my food

allergies were so bad that the only thing I could eat were lentils and rice. I

stuck to my lentil and rice diet for about 6 months, then started to slowly

reintroduce foods back into my diet. At this point, I was still unknowingly

living in the moldy apartment.

We moved shortly after we discovered mold and my food allergies are much

better, but I still have an extremely restricted diet. What I seem to be

most sensitive to now is to preservatives, food coloring, additives, alcohol.

gluten, diary, all seafood, some fruit, some nuts, sugar. I can't eat

anything processed. I also developed adrenal fatigue (almost no cortisol in the

afternoon).

I have been taking many different supplements and herbs to detox and

rebuild my body, which has been helpful, but I need to be very careful with the

amount of detoxing I do, because it can induce an intense healing crisis

that wipes we out for weeks. I spoke with a mold specialist and she did not

recommend cholestryamine because of my drug sensitivities.

I exercise regularly. I don't currently have access to a sauna, but

hopefully will in the near future. Instead I have been taking epsom salt baths,

which seem to help a little. I've also tried colonics, acupuncture,

hypnotherapy, zero balancing, reiki, massage, kinesiology, NAET, sound therapy,

chiropractics etc. All has been very helpful. Does anyone know of any other

forms of gentle therapy that helps with resolving food allergies?

I have been reading up on waterproofing the basement and there seems to be

a difference of opinion regarding how to treat the crawl space. My

question is, should the crawl space be sealed off or ventilated? Does anyone

recommend having a drainage system with alarm for the crawl space in the case

there is water infiltration or is that being too overly cautious?

Lastly, I am a MD, currently only practicing Chinese Medicine. I knew

almost nothing about environmental medicine until my exposure to mold. As a

result I have learned a great deal and from the sounds of all these posts,

will continue to learn more. It sounds like most people in the group know much

more about their health than most doctors!

Thank you.

Momoko

[Guest guest]

The crawl space is a serious issue. Modern construction leaves the following

problems: (1) no water barrier between the foundation and the earth piled up

next to it. Cement is porous and will absorb water. (2) if you have a yard or

plant beddings around the perimeter of the building, then a) watering the

planting beds wets the foundation and sprinkler directed towards the building

is another source of moisture. (3) Most codes require that the soil put up

against the foundation must be sufficiently high enough so that drainage is

towards the street. Again another source of water. I will let Carl take this

one further than I have.

[] food allergies and crawl space

Hello!

I just joined the group and am both excited and saddened to read all the

posts. Excited to learn more about mold and saddened to hear about how so many

people have been suffering from mold exposure.

I have 2 questions. The first is regarding food allergies and the second

question is regarding crawl space.

[Guest guest]

welcome

your reaction to mold sounds so similar to mine, esp food allergies, gut,

dizziness, migraines, etc

if the csm (chloestrymine) is compounded without filler and binders, wouldn't

that be okay?

denise

________________________________

From: " momoko_uno@... " <momoko_uno@...>

Sent: Mon, January 31, 2011 8:29:20 AM

Subject: [] food allergies and crawl space

Hello!

I just joined the group and am both excited and saddened to read all the posts.

Excited to learn more about mold and saddened to hear about how so many people

have been suffering from mold exposure.

I have 2 questions. The first is regarding food allergies and the second

question is regarding crawl space.

[Guest guest]

I dont think she was an MD I went to her house

In a message dated 1/31/2011 5:35:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

docak@... writes:

Ginger,

Applied Kinesiology, which I am so dearly hoping is what you mean when you

write 'kinesiology', is only allowed to be taught and practiced by, Primary

Care, Portal of Entry, Licensed to Diagnose, health care providers. As

such, it most certainly is covered by insurance. That being said, some less

than optimal policies dont even cover chiropractic, which is scandalous,

and

should be illegal. Also, the provider may not using his/her billing

codes correctly, and is thus bgeing rejected, when it would not have to be.

So, there are more facts to be learned yet re your statement. On the other

hand, maybe your AK provider simply doesn't accept insurance. Or maybe

s/he's not a physician. See, too many details left out. But I can tell you

for an absolute fact, that Applied Kinesiology is billable.

_____

From: _ _

(mailto: ) [mailto:_ _

(mailto: ) ]

On Behalf Of _Gingersnap1964@..._ (mailto:Gingersnap1964@...)

Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 3:12 PM

_ _ (mailto: )

Subject: Re: [] food allergies and crawl space

I tried kinesiology and it was helping but had to stop because insurance

doesn't cover and it got too exspensive

[Guest guest]

I asked the same question concerning the venting and never received a clear cut

answer, some professionals say the crawl space should be as air tight as

possible while others say it needs to have a constant flow of fresh air

circulating. We had a vapor barrier installed on our crawl space, the installer

first glued the vapor barrier to the concrete than fastned it with a metal strip

all along the edge and unless the vapor barrier has a hole in which it doesn't

there's no way any moisture can penetrate it. No mold/bacteria should be able to

seep from under the vapor barrier as no moisture should be allowed to get

underneath it. As far as an alarm is concerned if the vapor barrier is properly

installed should there ever be a leak it would gather on top of the barrier and

would be noticed almost immediately. Dr Thrasher is correct, Carl will be able

to tell you more as he is definitely an expert in this area.

>

> Hello!

>

> I have been reading up on waterproofing the basement and there seems to be a

difference of opinion regarding how to treat the crawl space. My question is,

should the crawl space be sealed off or ventilated? Does anyone recommend having

a drainage system with alarm for the crawl space in the case there is water

infiltration or is that being too overly cautious?

>

>

> Thank you.

>

> Momoko

>

[Guest guest]

Ginger,

Applied Kinesiology, which I am so dearly hoping is what you mean when you

write 'kinesiology', is only allowed to be taught and practiced by, Primary

Care, Portal of Entry, Licensed to Diagnose, health care providers. As

such, it most certainly is covered by insurance. That being said, some less

than optimal policies dont even cover chiropractic, which is scandalous, and

should be illegal. Also, the provider may not using his/her billing

codes correctly, and is thus bgeing rejected, when it would not have to be.

So, there are more facts to be learned yet re your statement. On the other

hand, maybe your AK provider simply doesn't accept insurance. Or maybe

s/he's not a physician. See, too many details left out. But I can tell you

for an absolute fact, that Applied Kinesiology is billable.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Gingersnap1964@...

Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 3:12 PM

Subject: Re: [] food allergies and crawl space

I tried kinesiology and it was helping but had to stop because insurance

doesn't cover and it got too exspensive

[Guest guest]

Crawl spaces must by sealed up like Fort Knox. If anyone can present me/us

with some logical thinking on why it should be otherwise, I would to hear

those ideas.

scott

PS - if you like nuts, imo, which I understand really doesn't mean much to

anyone here ( and that's ok) is to try products from ....livingnutz.com

Wow, amazing stuff The energetics of these are completely different.

_____

In a message dated 1/31/2011 1:44:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

momoko_uno@... <mailto:momoko_uno%40juno.com> writes:

Hello!

I just joined the group and am both excited and saddened to read all the

posts. Excited to learn more about mold and saddened to hear about how so

many people have been suffering from mold exposure.

I have 2 questions. The first is regarding food allergies and the second

question is regarding crawl space.

[Guest guest]

,

I respectfully disagree about sealing up crawlspaces like " Fort

Knox. " There are valid reasons and ways to have outside

ventilated crawlspaces and controlled ventilated crawlspaces but

there should always be some sort of minimal air exchange.

One, you can't prevent air movement from the crawlspace to the

living space because no buildings are built air tight. Two, if they

are sealed from the house then all kinds of things, esp humidity,

can and will accumulate which can also affect the structure.

That said, the source of the air entering the crawlspace is critical

to prevent condensation, accumulation of RH, and movement of

soil gasses into the building. Forced air systems and ducting is

another factor affecting specific actions.

The methods can depend on climate and geographical region or

local features. If it is based on conditioned air from inside the

house then the exhaust needs to be sufficient to create a laminar-

type flow without causing backdrafting of combustion sources like

water heaters or furnaces and boilers.

Isolating the open soil from the air space is the most important

but that also requires some finese to make sure the membrane is

a true barrier (permeance <1) and all seams including perimeter

are sufficiently sealed.

For logical thinking and actual studies to support the above from

the Building Science experts, Google the term and you will find

several sites by the top experts.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

Crawl spaces must by sealed up like Fort Knox. If anyone can present

me/us with some logical thinking on why it should be otherwise, I would

to hear those ideas.

scott

PS - if you like nuts, imo, which I understand really doesn't mean much

to anyone here ( and that's ok) is to try products from ....livingnutz.com

Wow, amazing stuff The energetics of these are completely different.

_____

In a message dated 1/31/2011 1:44:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

momoko_uno@... <mailto:momoko_uno%40juno.com> writes:

Hello!

I just joined the group and am both excited and saddened to read all the

posts. Excited to learn more about mold and saddened to hear about how

so many people have been suffering from mold exposure.

I have 2 questions. The first is regarding food allergies and the second

question is regarding crawl space.

----------

The following section of this message contains a file attachment

prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format.

If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any other MIME-compliant system,

you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.

If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance.

---- File information -----------

File: DEFAULT.BMP

Date: 15 Jun 2009, 23:10

Size: 358 bytes.

Type: Unknown

[Guest guest]

The same rule of thumb applies to the attic which there is no rule of thumb,

some say ventilate while others say seal off. Like I said in my original post I

never received a clear cut answer to the crawl space so I just left it as the

builder built it. I do know that a properly installed vapor barrier will put the

majority of your fears to rest, they did in my situation.

I have been reading up on waterproofing the basement and there seems to be a

difference of opinion regarding how to treat the crawl space. My question is,

should the crawl space be sealed off or ventilated? Does anyone recommend having

a drainage system with alarm for the crawl space in the case there is water

infiltration or is that being too overly cautious?

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi and Welcome. Sorry to see you here under these circumstances.

Have you done a mold diet? It also sounds like you have chemical intolerance

which many of us too have developed. You should eliminate all chemicals from

your life in air, water and food, artificial clothing ,materials as well. Wish

you the best.

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: " momoko_uno@... " <momoko_uno@...>

Sent: Mon, January 31, 2011 10:29:20 AM

Subject: [] food allergies and crawl space

Hello!

I just joined the group and am both excited and saddened to read all the posts.

Excited to learn more about mold and saddened to hear about how so many people

have been suffering from mold exposure.

I have 2 questions. The first is regarding food allergies and the second

question is regarding crawl space.

I was exposed to mold for at least 2 years. Air quality tests revealed that I

had been exposed to many different species of mold, including stachybotrus and

chaetomium. I developed seizures, severe pain, unremitting diarrhea, vomiting,

severe nausea, fatigue, headaches, anxiety, panic attacks, food allergies,

dizziness, low blood pressure etc. At one point my food allergies were so bad

that the only thing I could eat were lentils and rice. I stuck to my lentil and

rice diet for about 6 months, then started to slowly reintroduce foods back into

my diet. At this point, I was still unknowingly living in the moldy apartment.

We moved shortly after we discovered mold and my food allergies are much better,

but I still have an extremely restricted diet. What I seem to be most sensitive

to now is to preservatives, food coloring, additives, alcohol. gluten, diary,

all seafood, some fruit, some nuts, sugar. I can't eat anything processed. I

also developed adrenal fatigue (almost no cortisol in the afternoon).

I have been taking many different supplements and herbs to detox and rebuild my

body, which has been helpful, but I need to be very careful with the amount of

detoxing I do, because it can induce an intense healing crisis that wipes we out

for weeks. I spoke with a mold specialist and she did not recommend

cholestryamine because of my drug sensitivities.

I exercise regularly. I don't currently have access to a sauna, but hopefully

will in the near future. Instead I have been taking epsom salt baths, which seem

to help a little. I've also tried colonics, acupuncture, hypnotherapy, zero

balancing, reiki, massage, kinesiology, NAET, sound therapy, chiropractics etc.

All has been very helpful. Does anyone know of any other forms of gentle therapy

that helps with resolving food allergies?

I have been reading up on waterproofing the basement and there seems to be a

difference of opinion regarding how to treat the crawl space. My question is,

should the crawl space be sealed off or ventilated? Does anyone recommend having

a drainage system with alarm for the crawl space in the case there is water

infiltration or is that being too overly cautious?

Lastly, I am a MD, currently only practicing Chinese Medicine. I knew almost

nothing about environmental medicine until my exposure to mold. As a result I

have learned a great deal and from the sounds of all these posts, will continue

to learn more. It sounds like most people in the group know much more about

their health than most doctors!

Thank you.

Momoko

__________________________________________________________

$65/Hr Job - 25 Openings

Part-Time job ($20-$65/hr). Requirements: Home Internet Access

http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4d46d592a942592d08st03duc

[Guest guest]

im having the same issue here i have medicare and they only cover basic

chiropracter adjustment only.i have alot of allergy issues and kinesiology is

helping diagnose and then help treat many food allergies and eviromental

allergies as well as hopefully bring down some sensitivity issues.

 

to me it isnt fair that western medicine only treats symtoms and then we get

worse and the things that can help us arent covered at all.im on diability and

the only help i can find i have to pay 200 first visit and 80 each visit after

that.yes its gonna be a tough road to go through it all and be able to pay but

ill get there in time.

 

in chinese medicine the doctors only get paid if the patient stays

healthy..unlike are doctors who only get paid when were sick.seems they want

permenant patients and money too me..good luck all

From: Gingersnap1964@... <Gingersnap1964@...>

Subject: Re: [] food allergies and crawl space

Date: Monday, January 31, 2011, 6:15 PM

 

I dont think she was an MD I went to her house

[Guest guest]

Ginger,

I did not say MD.

Can be any type of licensed physician.

scott

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Gingersnap1964@...

Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 7:15 PM

Subject: Re: [] food allergies and crawl space

I dont think she was an MD I went to her house

[Guest guest]

Probably all the policies were written by big Pharma. There is no money in a

cure only in long term treatment.

I have no care with medicaid. What a crock what is the point ?? I want to

pick my care not be commanded where to go. Who to see , how to wipe.

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: brett michael <brettmichael52246@...>

Sent: Mon, January 31, 2011 8:06:19 PM

Subject: Re: [] food allergies and crawl space

im having the same issue here i have medicare and they only cover basic

chiropracter adjustment only.i have alot of allergy issues and kinesiology is

helping diagnose and then help treat many food allergies and eviromental

allergies as well as hopefully bring down some sensitivity issues.

to me it isnt fair that western medicine only treats symtoms and then we get

worse and the things that can help us arent covered at all.im on diability and

the only help i can find i have to pay 200 first visit and 80 each visit after

that.yes its gonna be a tough road to go through it all and be able to pay but

ill get there in time.

in chinese medicine the doctors only get paid if the patient stays

healthy..unlike are doctors who only get paid when were sick.seems they want

permenant patients and money too me..good luck all

[Guest guest]

From my experience it depends on the way the building was built whether to

ventilate or not ventilate the attic as this was my 'nut to crack' w my house.

I don't have a crawl space so don't know about that. My house was built so that

air circulated from attic down through house and into basement. Ventilating the

attic caused all kinds of problems of outside air getting down into the walls of

house and condensing. I had them all but two small ones taken out and those may

go eventually.

>

> The same rule of thumb applies to the attic which there is no rule of thumb,

some say ventilate while others say seal off. Like I said in my original post I

never received a clear cut answer to the crawl space so I just left it as the

builder built it. I do know that a properly installed vapor barrier will put the

majority of your fears to rest, they did in my situation.

[Guest guest]

Simple. If your chiropractic physician is a good 'guy' (sorry, may be gal,

but I have to write something), now remember, this is my opinion only, he

should get his m/care $, and give away the rest of his skills for what you

need, and just emotionally write it off as a public service - with the

understanding that in the long run, he'll get it all back, sometime,

somehow. That's me, but I'm wierd like that.

You cannot use western medicine and fair in the same sentance.

scott

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of brett michael

Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 8:06 PM

Subject: Re: [] food allergies and crawl space

im having the same issue here i have medicare and they only cover basic

chiropracter adjustment only.i have alot of allergy issues and kinesiology

is helping diagnose and then help treat many food allergies and eviromental

allergies as well as hopefully bring down some sensitivity issues.

to me it isnt fair that western medicine only treats symtoms and then we get

worse and the things that can help us arent covered at all.im on diability

and the only help i can find i have to pay 200 first visit and 80 each visit

after that.yes its gonna be a tough road to go through it all and be able to

pay but ill get there in time.

in chinese medicine the doctors only get paid if the patient stays

healthy..unlike are doctors who only get paid when were sick.seems they want

permenant patients and money too me..good luck all

[Guest guest]

I'll explain it to you .

The house was built in 1938 and framing is called balloon framing and the air is

meant to circulate inside the house, up and down, and with no insulation and no

venting.

Air flow will go wherever physics determines. It is a law of physics that air

flow is from 'high energy' to low energy. There are multiple factors. Heat is

one.

Hot air, which is high energy air, moves toward cold air, so in the winter it is

from inside the house to outside (stack effect, up and down); in summer, it

reverses direction (sometimes refered to as reverse stack effect). See diagram

below.

I remember reading a post on the internet with this guy being disgusted with his

'turbine' vent, saying the darn thing is pulling hot air in, rather than out,

and assumed something was wrong w the way the turbine was built or put in, when

it was just doing what all turbines do; out in winter, in in summer.

Humidity is another. High humidity air will move toward low humidity, so if the

temperature on the inside and outside of the house are equal and all other

things equal, say it is 72 degrees outside but it is 80% humidity outside and

40% humidity inside, the humidity will flow from outside to inside..in my house

it came in through the attic.

Increasing the insulation in attic may have stopped it but putting it back to no

vents, which is the way it was from when it was built in 1938 to 2006 and

without any attic or house problem, also worked.

Study this picture from Air Sealers of America. One side of the house is a

house in winter, the other is same house in summer. It shows the change in

direction of air flow in all homes, regardless of structure:

http://www.airsealers.com/ME2/Default.asp

> I

> i have never heard of a structure (home) being built for downward airflow.

> In the south, of course, we want hot air from the outside, and that which

> builds up in the attic, to freely escape. In the north, the home is

> heated, and that air naturally will flow up, it needs venting to escape,

> else it will just cause condensation as it is pushed back down and meets

> with heavier cool or cold air.

> So, if you know can explain to me/us alternate means of circulation, I am

> happy to learn.

> scott

[Guest guest]

Carl, it seems that we agree on general concept, but part in the details. I

absolutely agree that with normal construct techniques, there is no way to

prevent air upwelling. I am speaking of a massive aftermarket effort on the

part of the sensitive homeowner. I also agree that the crawlspace -once

sealed - absolutely must have some sort of ventilation for all the reasons

you describe. Common sense. Spray foam from certified contractors,

membranes, silicon or elastomeric sealants, and whatever else. This is not

my profession. I know just what Ive learned form others. I believe we are

fundamentally on track here.

Personally, to me it makes a great deal more sense to spend great efforts

cleaning out my liver, etc.

scott

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Carl E. Grimes

Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 5:41 PM

Subject: RE: [] food allergies and crawl space

,

I respectfully disagree about sealing up crawlspaces like " Fort

Knox. " There are valid reasons and ways to have outside

ventilated crawlspaces and controlled ventilated crawlspaces but

there should always be some sort of minimal air exchange.

One, you can't prevent air movement from the crawlspace to

[Guest guest]

,

I think we agree on the very general concepts of having healthy

houses. But we do not agree on how to create a healthy house.

Or how make a house healthy again.

Learning from others is fantastc! But we need to be careful about

who we learn from. There is now much known about buildings,

moisture, mold, bacteria and filth in water damaged buildings

which it is wise to be cognizant of. Just as we also need to be

acutely aware of what isn't yet known, what we don't know, and

how to determine what to do when we have inadequate

information.

The biggest problem with exposure complaints from indoors is

the massive amount of just plain wrong information based on

belief rather than known facts. Actually, the biggest problem in

information which is mostly correct but wrong in key ways.

As for it making more sense to " cleaning your liver " I agree. If

your liver is the problem. In may case my liver isn't the problem

so it would be useless and perhaps harmful for me to focus on

that.

Also, the problems are a combination of the body and the

environment interacting. Some people become whole again with

just medical treatment or nutritional supplements. Some can't

tolerate either. Others can become whole again just by managing

exposures. But some are unable to accomplish that for any

number of reasons. Others, like most on Sickbuilding, need a

combination of internal health and external environmental

management.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

Carl, it seems that we agree on general concept, but part in the details. I

absolutely agree that with normal construct techniques, there is no way

to

prevent air upwelling. I am speaking of a massive aftermarket effort on

the

part of the sensitive homeowner. I also agree that the crawlspace -once

sealed - absolutely must have some sort of ventilation for all the reasons

you describe. Common sense. Spray foam from certified contractors,

membranes, silicon or elastomeric sealants, and whatever else. This is

not

my profession. I know just what Ive learned form others. I believe we are

fundamentally on track here.

Personally, to me it makes a great deal more sense to spend great efforts

cleaning out my liver, etc.

scott

_____

From:

[mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Carl E. Grimes

Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 5:41 PM

Subject: RE: [] food allergies and crawl space

,

I respectfully disagree about sealing up crawlspaces like " Fort

Knox. " There are valid reasons and ways to have outside

ventilated crawlspaces and controlled ventilated crawlspaces but

there should always be some sort of minimal air exchange.

One, you can't prevent air movement from the crawlspace to

----------

The following section of this message contains a file attachment

prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format.

If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any other MIME-compliant system,

you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.

If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance.

---- File information -----------

File: DEFAULT.BMP

Date: 15 Jun 2009, 23:10

Size: 358 bytes.

Type: Unknown

[Guest guest]

is that how you got sick? Your house?

Janet

In a message dated 2/1/2011 11:15:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

docak@... writes:

Jack is right on, especially when it comes to fondation prep. Though all

codes will differ by region, my understaanding is that cement has GOT!! to

have a layer, or much better yet, multiple layers, of watertight barriers,

between it and the earth. This can be sheeting, painted on elastomerics,

meshes for reinforcement, & just all kinds of really 'neat' products in

that

industry. If not, you are going to get what I have in my basemewnt in CT.,

which is a wet, moldy, crumbly basement.

[Guest guest]

Jack is right on, especially when it comes to fondation prep. Though all

codes will differ by region, my understaanding is that cement has GOT!! to

have a layer, or much better yet, multiple layers, of watertight barriers,

between it and the earth. This can be sheeting, painted on elastomerics,

meshes for reinforcement, & just all kinds of really 'neat' products in that

industry. If not, you are going to get what I have in my basemewnt in CT.,

which is a wet, moldy, crumbly basement.

I cannot believe that when I moved into this home nearly two years ago,

that it was allowed to pass muster in the state that it was in. The home

owners, who bought it two years earlier, told me the inspection went fine,

but that inspection compan is no longer in business. Uh huh, that pretty

much tells me what I needed to know. Not state certified.

scott

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Jack Thrasher, Ph.D.

Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:01 PM

Subject: Re: [] food allergies and crawl space

The crawl space is a serious issue. Modern construction leaves the following

problems: (1) no water barrier between the foundation and the earth piled up

next to it. Cement is porous and will absorb water. (2) if you have a yard

or plant beddings around the perimeter of the building, then a) watering the

planting beds wets the foundation and sprinkler directed towards the

building is another source of moisture. (3) Most codes require that the soil

put up against the foundation must be sufficiently high enough so that

drainage is towards the street. Again another source of water. I will let

Carl take this one further than I have.

[Guest guest]

go boil that liver all you want, wont do diddly squat if your crawl space has

microbial growth and you are a sensitive

.

>

> Carl, it seems that we agree on general concept, but part in the details. I

> absolutely agree that with normal construct techniques, there is no way to

> prevent air upwelling. I am speaking of a massive aftermarket effort on the

> part of the sensitive homeowner. I also agree that the crawlspace -once

> sealed - absolutely must have some sort of ventilation for all the reasons

> you describe. Common sense. Spray foam from certified contractors,

> membranes, silicon or elastomeric sealants, and whatever else. This is not

> my profession. I know just what Ive learned form others. I believe we are

> fundamentally on track here.

> Personally, to me it makes a great deal more sense to spend great efforts

> cleaning out my liver, etc.

> scott

>

> _____

>

> From: [mailto: ]

> On Behalf Of Carl E. Grimes

> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 5:41 PM

>

> Subject: RE: [] food allergies and crawl space

>

> ,

>

> I respectfully disagree about sealing up crawlspaces like " Fort

> Knox. " There are valid reasons and ways to have outside

> ventilated crawlspaces and controlled ventilated crawlspaces but

> there should always be some sort of minimal air exchange.

>

> One, you can't prevent air movement from the crawlspace to

>

[Guest guest]

Picture explains everything:

http://www.airsealers.com/ME2/Default.asp

> One thing I am still not clear on. When the weather is warm, the home is

> usually cooler, but has a hot attic, hence the turbine (as on my home) to

> outvent the heat and humidity. Living spaces and attics are tremendously

> different temps and humidity levels when the AC is on. Winter in warm areas

> sees a much more balanced scenario.

> Actually, Im not really grasping your description, as the situation is so

> dynamic, Not only seasons, but lattitude plays an enormous part. Let's

> let it go for now, I will look at the attachment you sent.

[Guest guest]

Momoko, we are in the middle of treating a crawl for a person with special

sensitivities, to odor as well as chemical and biological allergens.

We are going to use spray foam on three walls, leave the ceiling (underside of

what's above, bedrooms) uncovered and untreated. The dirt floor is covered

completely with a radon blanket plastic, sealed around perimeter with the spray

foam. We will provide a little treated air (heat or a/c) via a duct that runs

thru the space, using a small 5 " adjustable register vent cover; it is on one

end, an opening into the basement is on the other end, so we have a slight

positive pressure into the space from the treated air, and a flow from the

supply to the exhaust (opening).

If you don't have a crawl that opens to an adjoining basement or occupied space

next to it, you should create a space that breathes with the space above. Same

concept, treated air slightly positively pressurizes, the air flows back into

the occupied spaces above. You must treat the four walls completely, no gaps, no

penetrations to outdoors, and seal tightly to the floor covering (moisture

barrier, sealed seams, etc.) which also must be completed with not gaps.

It doesn't matter if you have soil or concrete floor slab, you need to have a

moisture and a vapor barrier over it. Different ways for different conditions

and components. Not sure what yours would actually require as far as the

detailed specs.

Any questions? call me! This is relatively easy and basic.

You are creating a " conditioned space " rather than a damp cool crawl space. You

can put things down there, furnace, storage, people, without threat from

moisture, odor, soil offgassing, or microbial contamination.

Yes, a floor sensor for water leaks would be prudent, but it goes on top of the

plastic barrier, which is a water proof floor with pipes above it. Generally the

soil underneath does not imjpact the airspace above the plastic. You could put

in a radon vent under it to keep it slightly depressurized, but I would wait to

see if you have ballooning of the plastic.

You might want someone to design and spec this for you if you have trouble

getting a contractor to do it " your " way. They could/should also do a quality

inspection on different aspects and components. E.g., We use a certified

building designer for the paper work. Less expensive than an architect, but also

it's clear and simple for the contractor.

>

I just joined the group and am both excited and saddened to read all the posts.

Excited to learn more about mold and saddened to hear about how so many people

have been suffering from mold exposure.

>

> I have 2 questions. The first is regarding food allergies and the second

question is regarding crawl space.

>

[Guest guest]

Remember, there is no such thing as " too tight " . However, there is a thing

called not enough ventilation. That means, the contaminants (including vapor and

CO2) build up in the space. You must make the envelope as completely closed and

leak free as possible. Test it, and find the spots leaking and fill them.

THEN, you must control all air in and out of the space. Typically, this is

achieved with an ERV/HRV. this brings in the specified amount of fresh outside

air, treats it, and mixes it, it also exhausts a portio of the air, and can also

reuse the energy to heat and treat the incoming air. We can also use zoning to

control ventilation/supply rates into rooms used less than average to conserve

energy.

This is the only way we achieve a truly controlled space for any health concern.

Lock out all air, and then treat and direct every cubic meter of it the way we

want when we want and where we want.

>

> > I respectfully disagree about sealing up crawlspaces like " Fort

> Knox. " There are valid reasons and ways to have outside

> ventilated crawlspaces and controlled ventilated crawlspaces but

> there should always be some sort of minimal air exchange.

[Guest guest]

Not sick,. Very healthy. my basement makes me sneeze a couple of times a

day. And now, there is so much damn snow piled up on the ground level

doors, i cant get fresh air in here, as I do to help the problem when

there's not so much damn! (LOL) snow.

anyone want some snow. Got a bunch. Free. Just come get it.

scott

_____

On Behalf Of Gingersnap1964@...

Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 11:21 AM

Subject: Re: [] food allergies and crawl space

is that how you got sick? Your house?

Janet

In a message dated 2/1/2011 11:15:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

docak@... <mailto:docak%40optimum.net> writes:

If not, you are going to get what I have in my basemewnt in CT.,

which is a wet, moldy, crumbly basement.