Re: Trying again - the what's going on? nightmare

[Guest guest]

oh, just noticed this and there was more to it.

>

> Hi

>

> Trying again. When I posted this the first time the message got cut off.

>

> I posted this at another list in response to someone and Carl saw it and asked

if I would post it here as well. Hope it may help someone.

>

> Sometimes when I have had distressing symptoms that wouldn't pass and I didn't

know why or what was going on, didn't know if it was something I took or if I

was reacting to something or if I needed to take something or it was something

else, a problem that actually stood in my way of finding out what they meant was

forming beliefs about them and drawing conclusions that turned out to be wrong.

In fact, I found that I was wrong 95% of the time when I did this. For example,

I once thought that my symptoms meant I had gotten too much flora and for a week

I suffered so hard thinking it was die-off or too much cleansing only to

discover when I told my health professional about it that my symptoms were

because I NEEDED probiotics, not that I'd gotten too much of them and when I

took some I felt soooo much better, ha.

>

> I have found that almost never will something I take have bad affects for many

weeks. When symptoms don't pass that should after a while I have to start

suspecting something else than what I took, like I'm reacting to something

somewhere in the house or I need to do some detoxing or I have some physical

need requiring protocols of some sort. It has sometimes taken me weeks or

months to find out what my symptoms mean and what I need to do for them.

>

> For example, for months I had such terrible symptoms that made it harder and

harder for me to take my protocols and I was going crazy. I finally found out

it was because I needed to detox. After that everything improved. Then it

happened again that nothing I was taking was addressing my symptoms and I found

out I needed to add an antifungal to my protocols. Sometimes my symptoms meant

I was reacting to something and it took a long time to figure that out and to

what it was. If I assume my problems are from what I took or I just KNOW what

the problem is because I have formed a belief it can prevent me from looking at

other things.

>

> We often have to be detectives to try to find and eliminate causes of

reactions or an investigator to try to find out if our symptoms mean something

we need physically. Having more than one doctor and one source of advice has

helped me. One doctor let me know I needed detoxing. Another that I needed

probiotics, enzymes, minerals. Another source that I needed antifungals, until

finally all my needs were met. Another source that I needed something for my

immune system. Not all the doctors knew all the things my body needed.

Thankfully I had more than one source of help.

>

> In my community a healthier living workshop was held for people with chronic

illness and one of the things I read in the book they had was never assume

anything. Assumptions are self-management enemies. I would add beliefs to that

statement. Beliefs can be self-management enemies as well. We have to keep our

mind open to all possibilities.

>

> A very valuable thing I have learned when it comes to " What Is Going On??? "

There is always an answer and when its found it is often the simplest thing.

Also fear makes my symptoms 10 times worse. It's helpful to do what they say to

do when you get lost out in the wild. STOP. It's an acronym that stands for

SIT, THINK, OBSERVE, PLAN.

>

> Sometimes we have to let go of the ideas we form about what the problem is

because we stop making sense. I remember feeling for a time like my body

operated on different rules from everybody else because being like this can be

so bizarre, but no, I was just sicker than I'd been and had to be reminded of

the basics yet again, things like, toxins got in, I have to get them back out.

I have formed beliefs about foods I couldn't tolerate only to discover I could

tolerate some of them and they would even be helpful to me.

>

> I have had coincidences happen many times that made me think something was the

cause of what I was going through only to discover later that it wasn't that

thing at all, it just happened to happen at the same time. It's easy to

associate things together because they happened simultaneously but it could be

something else, perhaps something we completely overlooked or dismissed at the

time.

>

> I hate the fear that comes with not knowing and the uncertainty and worry of

ever finding out what's wrong and getting relief. But it can be found out.

Maybe try to get the health practitioner to look at other things if they too are

stuck on a belief about us. Ask them to see if something else needs addressing.

If the doctor can't figure it out then try another doctor. Some natural ones

who use muscle resistance testing are very good because they can often test a

person right then and there on all kinds of things to find out what the body

needs.

>

> It is so hard for MCS'ers because there often are just so many variables.

Sometimes we forget that and get stuck on an idea that closes our mind to these

other things and possibilities that could help us figure out better what our

needs are. We may think the problem is something we were taking, but maybe it

wasn't that thing at all and we can even continue to take it. That's happened

to me often. If we aren't taking anything, no probiotics or antifungals or

charcoal or minerals or whatever our needs may be, that could be a big problem.

All MCS'ers have a lot of things in common as far as health needs. And they

usually include the above things. I have had symptoms from not taking those

things.

>

> Here is another idea. When we take things that change the body's pattern that

can tell us things. Sometimes when I was so scared to try anything because I

was suffering so hard from stuff and would get really spooked I'd quit some or

all of my protocols, but then when nothing changed after a while, the problem

didn't pass, I just had to gather up my courage and try one thing after another

until I'd tried everything. I have found that when we take things that change

our body's pattern, like medicine, probiotics, herbs, garlic, anything that

makes changes happen in the body, that causes it to have to do something with

what we took because it has a medicinal quality to it or a strength to it that

changes our pattern, it can give clues to what is going on. It can make the

body feel different for a while, and as the effects pass and the original

symptoms come back that can give clues. There was relief, no relief, the

symptoms changed with what we took or didn't change, etc. I've had to do that

many times and when I have eliminated everything it could be I start getting

ideas about what is left. What could be left that it could mean after trying

everything I know. But we need courage. Good things that have helped us will

usually not suddenly start hurting us, and affects pass. They pass. Nothing is

permanent.

>

> Another thing. The body is dynamic, meaning it's needs are constantly

changing. That has been a challenge for me to keep up with my body's changing

needs. Just knowing that the needs change can help a lot. Ask yourself, what

could my body be needing now? What could it be telling me now?

>

> And again, beliefs and emotions can cause anxiety and fear and make physical

symptoms much worse. They have for me often, so practicing visualization,

relaxation, EFT, journaling, and so on have gone a looooong way toward reducing

my symptoms, helping me think more clearly to figure out solutions, and helping

the healing process. The healthier living workshop I attended emphasized those

things a lot.

>

> These are just a few things I thought of and I hope they can be helpful for

the " What Is Going On? nightmare.

>

> anita

>

[Guest guest]

I agree that fear shouldn't be part of this, chances are that if we didn't die

during exposure we are not going to die afterwards.

knowing that detox and antifungal can cause the hexhimier reaction and you well

fell worse befor you fell better is important to.

only when the hexhimier reaction (dieoff,toxin release) causes a symptoms that

can be dangerous to you would you have to worry about it,find ways around it,

cut done on rate of detox,ect.

give it a break and start out again at a lower dose.

or even go with more natural forms of detox like garlic,greens,ect.

everybody has to find there own way.

and everybody is going to have different needs.

>

> Hi

>

> Trying again. When I posted this the first time the message got cut off.

>

> I posted this at another list in response to someone and Carl saw it and asked

if I would post it here as well. Hope it may help someone.

>

[Guest guest]

How true this is and something I thought of adding. Because my symptoms are all

the same for everything, reacting, needing my protocols, more than I could

handle of my protocols, needing detoxing, more than I could handle of detoxing,

etc, it adds to the difficutly of finding out what's going on sometimes. Every

day almost I have to try to figure out if my symptoms mean I've had enough or I

need more. It can get confusing. I was writing this post in response to

someone that felt she was still suffering affects from a remedy 4 weeks later.

That is very very rare in my experience.

I have had to learn to take the tiniest amounts of my protocols, not because of

hexheimer but because my symptoms flare up just as badly from them as from

needing them I believe due to toxin total load. So yes, that is yet another

thing to consider when the 'what's going on' nightmare happens. I just think it

is very rare for hexheimer or cleansing/detoxing effects and such things to

continue to happen for many weeks on end.

anita

----------------------------------

From: osisposis



I agree that fear shouldn't be part of this, chances are that if we didn't die

during exposure we are not going to die afterwards.

knowing that detox and antifungal can cause the hexhimier reaction and you well

fell worse befor you fell better is important to.

only when the hexhimier reaction (dieoff,toxin release) causes a symptoms that

can be dangerous to you would you have to worry about it,find ways around it,

cut done on rate of detox,ect.

give it a break and start out again at a lower dose.

or even go with more natural forms of detox like garlic,greens,ect.

everybody has to find there own way.

and everybody is going to have different needs.

[Guest guest]

Anita,

Thanks for posting this. I asked you to do this because there are

so many words of wisdom. I started listing them but it's better to

just read what you wrote. Two key ones, though.

Fear:

This is huge and usually justified. And being afraid is not proof of

being a hypochondriac like the disbelievers claim. Fear is our

defense system to warn us against what is has hurt us. That said,

we can become afraid of death when a more appropriate fear is

one of illness (like you described). Or, as I remember most vividly

from my history, fear of losing another 2-5 days because I got

exposed to something or ate the wrong food. This usually morphs

into anger! Fear can also keep us attached to just one of the

many sources of exposure. If we focus on just one, or on the

wrong one, we can never get well because the others keep us

reacting. Then we can become fearful stopping what is making

us sick.

My body and situation is always changing. Vit C was my savior 20

years ago for 15 years. There was only one specific brand that

didn't make me sick but I eventually became reactive to it. But

another was then okay. I need only a small dose of most, but

some I need a larger than prescribed dose. And it changes over

time and with different exposures.

New situations:

I've never had a thyroid problem - at least not that I knew of. But

my last physical showed too low a level. My MD knows to start

me on low doses and he guessed just right. EXCEPT, I can't take

the whole tablet at once. If I split them and take half twice a day

I'm find. For the first 3 weeks. Then that became too much so I

stopped. After a week I was back to before so further

experimentation resulted in half a tablet every three days then

stop for two days. I am so SO much better now it makes me

wonder if perhaps thyroid may not have been part of the problem

all along. So my conclusion is there are short term and long term

dosage needs - in addition to all the other variables!

BTW, when I first started on anti-fungals 30 years ago I had to

split the daily dosage into eight times a day.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

How true this is and something I thought of adding. Because my

symptoms are all the same for everything, reacting, needing my

protocols, more than I could handle of my protocols, needing detoxing,

more than I could handle of detoxing, etc, it adds to the difficutly of

finding out what's going on sometimes. Every day almost I have to try to

figure out if my symptoms mean I've had enough or I need more. It can

get confusing. I was writing this post in response to someone that felt she

was still suffering affects from a remedy 4 weeks later. That is very very

rare in my experience.

I have had to learn to take the tiniest amounts of my protocols, not

because of hexheimer but because my symptoms flare up just as badly

from them as from needing them I believe due to toxin total load. So yes,

that is yet another thing to consider when the 'what's going on'

nightmare happens. I just think it is very rare for hexheimer or

cleansing/detoxing effects and such things to continue to happen for

many weeks on end.

anita

----------------------------------

From: osisposis



I agree that fear shouldn't be part of this, chances are that if we didn't die

during exposure we are not going to die afterwards.

knowing that detox and antifungal can cause the hexhimier reaction and

you well fell worse befor you fell better is important to.

only when the hexhimier reaction (dieoff,toxin release) causes a

symptoms that can be dangerous to you would you have to worry about

it,find ways around it, cut done on rate of detox,ect.

give it a break and start out again at a lower dose.

or even go with more natural forms of detox like garlic,greens,ect.

everybody has to find there own way.

and everybody is going to have different needs.

[Guest guest]

anita wrote---

I just think it is very rare for hexheimer or

cleansing/detoxing effects and such things to continue to happen for

many weeks on end.

Let me clarify that.... after you have quit taking whatever it is, then the

effects should start passing. If they don't and they keep going on and on for

weeks then it wasn't what you were taking that did that, it was something else.

anita

[Guest guest]

theres a very fine line between takeing something

for detoxing or any other reasons, and becomeing reactive/intolerant

of that thing you are takeing. yes, symptoms before takeing, during takeing and

becomeing intolerant to what your takeing can be very simular, takeing several

things at one time can also result in you becomeing sensitive/intolerant to any

or all those things.

our sensory systems have been damaged, our brain/body talk,tranmission,reception

is off. some of these things people take are not even doing what they may think

they are supposed to do.

they may be doing nothing more than aggervateing the sensory system.

it's all ready been aggervated enough, believe me, for some worse than others.

if a person is sensitive/intolerant due to their WDB exposure, they

really need to be careful about what they try and how much of it they try.

advoidance is not just about breathing, it's about skin contact, and ingestion

too. if it causes a reaction advoid it, if not dont do it to a point that it

starts.

it's just the same as people saying " I'm becoming more intolerant to more and

more things sence my exposure " it's because they didn't start advoiding these

things, when they should have right along with practiceing advoidance of the

things they were already reactive to.

it is both dose and chronic exposure that can lead to becomeing reactive to more

things once the sensory system has had damage.

just like it was the chronic exposure of WDB that damaged our sensory system

(along with other nerve damage) in the first place.

this is what I'm talking about when I say that maybe one of the first things to

do is give it a break. of corse we need to detox, very important. but the way

you go about detoxing is very important too.

that doesn't mean going nuts with shoveing many herbs,meds,ect,down your throat.

you need to be very careful. one at a time and not to much, rotate is important

just like rotateing diet.

it's just very easy to become reactive to many things you think are helping you.

and true they may help you and they may be detoxings you

but I garentee you you can become intolerant to those very things that you are

takeing for detox. once you do and relize it, those things become things you

have to advoid until a time that you become tolerable of them again, could be

years.

exspecially people that come out of their WDB already reactive to many foods,

med's, mold byproducts,ect. the more things you are reactive to the harder it is

to find something that may help you that doesn't have something in it that you

are reactive too.

and thrust me if herbs aren't on that list yet, just be put through a herbal

detox that a ignorant herbalest puts you through and see

how you than become reactive to many of or all those herbs. not immediately, but

yes a very fine line of when, when to much is to much.

when it comes to becomeing either allergic and/or intolerant, dose matters,

chronic dose matters. just like it was the combination of everything in the WDB

that caused injury and intolerances and/or allergies, now with the damage done

we are even more suseptable to

becomeing intolerant to more things at a even lower chronic dose.

even short term. the damage has been done, the goal is ,dont aggervate it.

just my view.

>

> anita wrote---

> I just think it is very rare for hexheimer or

> cleansing/detoxing effects and such things to continue to happen for

> many weeks on end.

>

> Let me clarify that.... after you have quit taking whatever it is, then the

effects should start passing. If they don't and they keep going on and on for

weeks then it wasn't what you were taking that did that, it was something else.

>

> anita

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

a flip side. you get out of the WDB and or reactive to many things, there are no

testing that can be done to find out everything you are reactive to.

your told that with a detox protocal you may fell worse.

no one knows if theres going to be something in that protocal that you are

reactive to. you fell worse, is it the protocal doing it's thing, whatever your

reactive to doing it's thing or both.

is it helping or hurting. do you reconize it as hurting if you think your just

going through die off effects.

if both is accuring, is the detox really helping you at any level.

>

> theres a very fine line between takeing something

> for detoxing or any other reasons,

[Guest guest]

I just find that avoidance is just so impossible, mostly because i never really

know what I'm going to react to after an exposure. Staying away from mold is an

easy call but suddenly I'm reacting to books-where did that come from and how

was I supposed to know?

I suppose after an exposure I should lock myself in my room and stay there for a

week but once I did that and I reacted to something in my dresser (which is now

in another room). Who knew? I have that dresser for 35 years-it never got wet, I

have no idea what it was except that I had an exposure and it tripped something

in me and I lost my dresser.

I find the best laid plans are often crushed because of an exposure. It's VERY

hard to predict.

Surella

>

> theres a very fine line between takeing something

> for detoxing or any other reasons, and becomeing reactive/intolerant

> of that thing you are takeing. yes, symptoms before takeing, during takeing

and becomeing intolerant to what your takeing can be very simular, takeing

several things at one time can also result in you becomeing sensitive/intolerant

to any or all those things.

> our sensory systems have been damaged, our brain/body

talk,tranmission,reception is off. some of these things people take are not even

doing what they may think they are supposed to do.

> they may be doing nothing more than aggervateing the sensory system.

> it's all ready been aggervated enough, believe me, for some worse than others.

> if a person is sensitive/intolerant due to their WDB exposure, they

> really need to be careful about what they try and how much of it they try.

advoidance is not just about breathing, it's about skin contact, and ingestion

too. if it causes a reaction advoid it, if not dont do it to a point that it

starts.

> it's just the same as people saying " I'm becoming more intolerant to more and

more things sence my exposure " it's because they didn't start advoiding these

things, when they should have right along with practiceing advoidance of the

things they were already reactive to.

> it is both dose and chronic exposure that can lead to becomeing reactive to

more things once the sensory system has had damage.

> just like it was the chronic exposure of WDB that damaged our sensory system

(along with other nerve damage) in the first place.

> this is what I'm talking about when I say that maybe one of the first things

to do is give it a break. of corse we need to detox, very important. but the way

you go about detoxing is very important too.

> that doesn't mean going nuts with shoveing many herbs,meds,ect,down your

throat. you need to be very careful. one at a time and not to

[Guest guest]

Anita, sorry, I haven't been paying as much attn. as I should, other things on

my mind.

so your still in a WDB? I wondered why you said your symptoms were the same if

not detoxing or takeing anything, as they are when takeing detoxing/protocals,

or after takeing them a few weeks.

I just didn't make the connection that you were talking from the stand point of

someone still dealing with exposure issues.

I have to tell you, I'd be very careful about takeing any detox protocals while

still exposed.

I'd hate for you to become reactive to any of those detox protocals than not be

able to use them we you do get out.

I truely believe this can happen and may be why intolances do appear after

getting out of a WDB exposure that might not seem to be related to exposure. it

may be that even takeing a antifungal during exposure could set you up to be

resistant to it after getting out.

I do believe that some of my med's intolerances where caused by med's prescribed

to me during exposure.

many med's are toxic, add that to the toxicity of exposure and you very well

could become reactive to those right along with becoming reactive of WDB

contaminants.

I was about to write you a post saying that if your symptoms when not takeing

nothing are like the symptoms of heximier reaction than your still getting

exposure to something. because with advoidance alone you can get to a much less

active stage of symptoms.

see, other things distracting me to a point that I dont even soak in what I read

if I dont give it my tottal attn.

>

> Hi

>

> Trying again. When I posted this the first time the message got cut off.

>

> I posted this at another list in response to someone and Carl saw it and asked

if I would post it here as well. Hope it may help someone.

>

> Sometimes when I have had distressing symptoms that wouldn't pass and I didn't

know why or what was going on, didn't know if it was something I took or if I

was reacting to something or if I needed to take something or it was something

else, a problem that actually stood in my way of finding out what they meant was

forming beliefs about them and drawing conclusions that turned out to be wrong.

In fact, I found that I was wrong 95% of the time when I did this. For example,

I once thought that my symptoms meant I had gotten too much flora and for a week

I suffered so hard thinking it was die-off or too much cleansing only to

discover when I told my health professional about it that my symptoms were

because I NEEDED probiotics, not that I'd gotten too much of them and when I

took some I felt soooo much better, ha.

>

> I have found that almost never will something I take have bad affects for many

weeks. When symptoms don't pass that should after a while I have to start

suspecting something else than what I took, like I'm reacting to something

somewhere in the house or I need to do some detoxing or I have some physical

need requiring protocols of some sort. It has sometimes taken me weeks or

months to find out what my symptoms mean and what I need to do for them.

>

> For example, for months I had such terrible symptoms that made it harder and

harder for me to take my protocols and I was going crazy. I finally found out

it was because I needed to detox. After that everything improved. Then it

happened again that nothing I was taking was addressing my symptoms and I found

out I needed to add an antifungal to my protocols. Sometimes my symptoms meant

I was reacting to something and it took a long time to figure that out and to

what it was. If I assume my problems are from what I took or I just KNOW what

the problem is because I have formed a belief it can prevent me from looking at

other things.

>

> We often have to be detectives to try to find and eliminate causes of

reactions or an investigator to try to find out if our symptoms mean something

we need physically. Having more than one doctor and one source of advice has

helped me. One doctor let me know I needed detoxing. Another that I needed

probiotics, enzymes, minerals. Another source that I needed antifungals, until

finally all my needs were met. Another source that I needed something for my

immune system. Not all the doctors knew all the things my body needed.

Thankfully I had more than one source of help.

>

> In my community a healthier living workshop was held for people with chronic

illness and one of the things I read in the book they had was never assume

anything. Assumptions are self-management enemies. I would add beliefs to that

statement. Beliefs can be self-management enemies as well. We have to keep our

mind open to all possibilities.

>

> A very valuable thing I have learned when it comes to " What Is Going On??? "

There is always an answer and when its found it is often the simplest thing.

Also fear makes my symptoms 10 times worse. It's helpful to do what they say to

do when you get lost out in the wild. STOP. It's an acronym that stands for

SIT, THINK, OBSERVE, PLAN.

>

> Sometimes we have to let go of the ideas we form about what the problem is

because we stop making sense. I remember feeling for a time like my body

operated on different rules from everybody else because being like this can be

so bizarre, but no, I was just sicker than I'd been and had to be reminded of

the basics yet again, things like, toxins got in, I have to get them back out.

I have formed beliefs about foods I couldn't tolerate only to discover I could

tolerate some of them and they would even be helpful to me.

>

> I have had coincidences happen many times that made me think something was the

cause of what I was going through only to discover later that it wasn't that

thing at all, it just happened to happen at the same time. It's easy to

associate things together because they happened simultaneously but it could be

something else, perhaps something we completely overlooked or dismissed at the

time.

>

> I hate the fear that comes with not knowing and the uncertainty and worry of

ever finding out what's wrong and getting relief. But it can be found out.

Maybe try to get the health practitioner to look at other things if they too are

stuck on a belief about us. Ask them to see if something else needs addressing.

If the doctor can't figure it out then try another doctor. Some natural ones

who use muscle resistance testing are very good because they can often test a

person right then and there on all kinds of things to find out what the body

needs.

>

> It is so hard for MCS'ers because there often are just so many variables.

Sometimes we forget that and get stuck on an idea that closes our mind to these

other things and possibilities that could help us figure out better what our

needs are. We may think the problem is something we were taking, but maybe it

wasn't that thing at all and we can even continue to take it. That's happened

to me often. If we aren't taking anything, no probiotics or antifungals or

charcoal or minerals or whatever our needs may be, that could be a big problem.

All MCS'ers have a lot of things in common as far as health needs. And they

usually include the above things. I have had symptoms from not taking those

things.

>

> Here is another idea. When we take things that change the body's pattern that

can tell us things. Sometimes when I was so scared to try anything because I

was suffering so hard from stuff and would get really spooked I'd quit some or

all of my protocols, but then when nothing changed after a while, the problem

didn't pass, I just had to gather up my courage and try one thing after another

until I'd tried everything. I have found that when we take things that change

our body's pattern, like medicine, probiotics, herbs, garlic, anything that

makes changes happen in the body, that causes it to have to do something with

what we took because it has a medicinal quality to it or a strength to it that

changes our pattern, it can give clues to what is going on. It can make the

body feel different for a while, and as the effects pass and the original

symptoms come back that can give clues. There was relief, no relief, the

symptoms changed with what we took or didn't change, etc. I've had to do that

many times and when I have eliminated everything it could be I start getting

ideas about what is left. What could be left that it could mean after trying

everything I know. But we need courage. Good things that have helped us will

usually not suddenly start hurting us, and affects pass. They pass. Nothing is

permanent.

>

> Another thing. The body is dynamic, meaning it's needs are constantly

changing. That has been a challenge for me to keep up with my body's changing

needs. Just knowing that the needs change can help a lot. Ask yourself, what

could my body be needing now? What could it be telling me now?

>

> And again, beliefs and emotions can cause anxiety and fear and make physical

symptoms much worse. They have for me often, so practicing visualization,

relaxation, EFT, journaling, and so on have gone a looooong way toward reducing

my symptoms, helping me think more clearly to figure out solutions, and helping

the healing process. The healthier living workshop I attended emphasized those

things a lot.

>

> These are just a few things I thought of and I hope they can be helpful for

the " What Is Going On? nightmare.

>

> anita

>

[Guest guest]

wood and paper can soak in alot of smells, it may not be that you became

reactive to them but that they harbor something you were already reactive to and

you just started noticeing it because you are now getting out of the constant

reactive state you were in during your exposure and your symptoms have somewhat

seperated and you are starting to see certain reaction to certain things instead

of what seems to be more like chronic reaction to most everything.

I'm pretty sure that in order to become reactive to more things theres a dose

involved. it may not need to be a high dose with us,

maybe even a pretty low chronic dose. and the chronic part might not be very

long term.

alot may depend on level of damage, how your body is functioning now.

what a exposure does/is and also how your body reacts.

the damage that has been done that is different for all of us.

just like people that do recover assume everyone can, not true.

it is very complacated and everyone sees things from their point of view.

my injury was to the level that I have very obvious symptoms which has helped me

reaconize more about what what effects me, and I can see how things can be much

harder to put together when you dont have to very obvious symptoms, but I'd

rather be better off and realize what I realize, but it doesn't work that way.

and when I say better off, I'm not down playing anyone elses exposure, it all is

horriable. sometimes it just takes years of mistakes and learning from them to

find some level of felling better.

the only advice I can give someone that I think well help them is that after

exposure, first know that for a little time your body still very reactive from

the WDB exposure itself, you might not even reconize that you are reactive to

anything because your body still in a constant reactive state, that is if you

are beyond the level where you very quickly fell better when leaveing the house

and I dont think to many of the people at that stage well be comeing to this

group.

you still need to start practiceing advoidance, of what is hard to say, better

safe than sorry would be to get rid of anything that you could possably react to

weither you realize it or not.

maybe also going on a green and white meat diet and of corse you've got to get

into somewhere to live that is as free of things that can aggervate your

condiction as possable. that alone can be hard, I made my mistakes with that

too.

for me, finally, it was a tiny apartment, three floors up with a good roof, no

leaks and my own seperate interance, no shared hallway, but still sometimes

smell would get through the flooring from apartments below me and make me ill.

the heat and AC was a window unit and I babied that sucker to make sure it

didn't become problematic.

includeing constantly hanging out the window above it makeing sure it was

dripping water. and a fan infront of it with attached filter to further catch

anything that it might put out into the air.

I learned that it's better to keep sink drains plugged when not useing.

if something came in that I reacted to it went right out on the porch and stayed

there until I dealt with it. and my windows were opened immeditly now matter

what the air was like out side and I'd do whatever was needed to get that smell

out asap and either would wash my sinuses and/or shower, what ever I needed to

do to stop the progression of symptom severity.

theres nothing easy about any of this, theres no one way of copeing with it.

mistakes and learning along the way is everyones guide.

it was several years before I really ,or my brain really said to me, hey, if you

start paying close enough attn. to your body you can learn from it.

I didn't have the internet, I couldn't have even functioned to use if if I had,

it wasn't until after I was practiceing advoidance and listening to my body and

getting somewhere where I could function better that I even thought about

getting online and many oldies know I was still a mess than. my brain had

suffered alot and it's not all about reaction issues. my body has suffered alot

and it's not all about reaction issues.

so we just cant all be put in the same boat, we cant all say this worked for me

it has to work for you and I've gotten to the point I dont even like trying to

give any advice like that because you cant know how someone takes that info. and

if it well hurt them instead of helping them. I've never been confortable with

it, because when I first came here, I heard alot of things that I knew were just

wrong.

thats why I started trying to research to find answers, by doing that I had to

look for answers which explained what I know I went through

and not everybody went through what I went through.

for a long time I thought everyone did and just took that for granted but than

many posts just didn't make sence to me because I couldn't relate and I started

realizeing everyone is not affected in the exact same way but we share many of

the same symtoms and damages just to different levels and those different levels

can mean some different symptoms we dont all share. just like not everyone

shares the caughing and closeing up of airways with chemical re-exposures like I

do. so really I proably do have RADS on top of TE and CIRS,

and some other issues. haveing RADS diffenitly gets your attn with chemical

re-exposures, but I cant say I'm happy to have it just because it helps me

reconize my re-exposures better.

anyway, I'm sorry for anyone that has suffered through these WDB exposures, it

truely sucks.

>

> I just find that avoidance is just so impossible, mostly because i never

really know what I'm going to react to after an exposure. Staying away from mold

is an easy call but suddenly I'm reacting to books-where did that come from and

how was I supposed to know?

> I suppose after an exposure I should lock myself in my room and stay there for

a week but once I did that and I reacted to something in my dresser (which is

now in another room). Who knew? I have that dresser for 35 years-it never got

wet, I have no idea what it was except that I had an exposure and it tripped

something in me and I lost my dresser.

> I find the best laid plans are often crushed because of an exposure. It's VERY

hard to predict.

> Surella

[Guest guest]

Thank you Jeanine, I really appreciated your post.

I have symptoms all the time whether I am in a WDB or exposed to something or

not. I am not sure if I have nerve damage but it could be one of the reasons I

have the symptoms all the time. I do know my symptoms are at least in part

because of toxins. I have a feeling that the reason I can take so little of my

protocols is because of the toxins. I should add my symptoms are not as bad

when I am in a better environment. I am a little more comfortable when in a

healthier environment, and when I am not exposed to anything then my symptoms do

begin to separate just like you talked about.

Your cautions about maybe not taking things for detoxing while still in a WDB so

as not to become intolerant of them I don't know what to do about as I

absolutely cannot make it without them. Right now I don't seem to need to take

anything for detoxing, my body is needing more emphasis on probiotics for my

digestive tract and still herbal antifungals which I rotate. Fortunately there

are plenty of differnt ones to choose from should I get a problem with one or

another.

Thanks so much for the time you spent on me. :-)

anita

---From: osisposis



Anita, sorry, I haven't been paying as much attn. as I should, other things on

my mind.

so your still in a WDB? I wondered why you said your symptoms were the same if

not detoxing or takeing anything, as they are when takeing detoxing/protocals,

or after takeing them a few weeks.

I just didn't make the connection that you were talking from the stand point of

someone still dealing with exposure issues.

I have to tell you, I'd be very careful about takeing any detox protocals while

still exposed.

I'd hate for you to become reactive to any of those detox protocals than not be

able to use them we you do get out.

I truely believe this can happen and may be why intolances do appear after

getting out of a WDB exposure that might not seem to be related to exposure. it

may be that even takeing a antifungal during exposure could set you up to be

resistant to it after getting out.

[Guest guest]

me too. several things going on that aren't re-exposure related, just relate to

damage thats been done.

>

> Thank you Jeanine, I really appreciated your post.

>

> I have symptoms all the time whether I am in a WDB or exposed to something or

not. I am not sure if I have nerve damage but it could be one of the reasons I

have the symptoms all the time. I do know my symptoms are at least in part

because of toxins. I have a feeling that the reason I can take so little of my

protocols is because of the toxins. I should add my symptoms are not as bad

when I am in a better environment. I am a little more comfortable when in a

healthier environment, and when I am not exposed to anything then my symptoms do

begin to separate just like you talked about.

>

> Your cautions about maybe not taking things for detoxing while still in a WDB

so as not to become intolerant of them I don't know what to do about as I

absolutely cannot make it without them. Right now I don't seem to need to take

anything for detoxing, my body is needing more emphasis on probiotics for my

digestive tract and still herbal antifungals which I rotate. Fortunately there

are plenty of differnt ones to choose from should I get a problem with one or

another.

>

> Thanks so much for the time you spent on me. :-)

>

> anita

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the post. Its always nice to hear that you are not alone. I admire

your coping skills alot!

>

> wood and paper can soak in alot of smells, it may not be that you became

reactive to them but that they harbor something you were already reactive to and

you just started noticeing it because you are now getting out of the constant

reactive state you were in during your exposure and

[Guest guest]

thats interesting Anita, still be careful, I can kindof see were that would be

helpful to a certain extent but there may come a time where testing muscle

resistance may become not so useful.

>

> How often I have wondered this.

>

> I think I have an advantage in knowing if I will be reactive to my protocols

though by getting tested on them first with muscle resistance testing. If my

body is going to respond negatively to it my arm will be weak and unable to

resist the force pushing it down as I hold whatever it is. It has saved me a

lot of grief and money to be able to find out this way if something will be good

for me and work or not.

>

> ap

[Guest guest]

thanks,somedays I can get it together better than other days.

> >

> > wood and paper can soak in alot of smells, it may not be that you became

reactive to them but that they harbor something you were already reactive to and

you just started noticeing it because you are now getting out of the constant

reactive state you were in during your exposure and

>