Re: Dr. Thrasher -- saving a bulk carpeting sample from classroom? -

[Guest guest]

Carl: I disagree with you. The affected parties need to do what is necessary

to define the problem. Leaving the testing and inspection up to the school

authorities allows them to hide the truth. If the children are ill who are in

the classroom(s) then the parents have the inalienable right to step in and

conduct the appropriate testing with a qualified party who is not hired by the

School District. Conflicts of interests do occur..

Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Off: 916-745-4703

Cell: 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

916-745-4703 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

privileged and confidential. The forwarding or redistribution of this message

(and any attachments) without my prior written consent is strictly prohibited

and may violate privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this message has been

served, please destroy the original message contents. If you have received this

message in error, please reply immediately to advise the sender of the

miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies you have printed.

Thank you in advance for your compliance.

[Guest guest]

Jack,

I see our disagreement as highlighting a critical distinction.

I agree IF we can gain access to the school to conduct our own investigation.

How often does that happen?

Without that ability our biggest mistake is to try to force action with a claim

of " mold " thinking they fear mold as much as we do. In fact, mold is one of the

easiest claims to " disprove " with all the improper testing you and I keep

preaching about. Plus the manipulation of words and meaning.

I agree with you after a certain point in the process but not at the very

beginning. It's a question of strategy to begin action, not how to diagnose or

prove.

The distinction I'm making is between the first claim of an illness and then

followed by a claim of the cause (mold) of the illness.

If I claim my child is sick while at school, for example, and cite days of

absence and doctor visits with diagnosis is it also my job to identify the

problem with the school before the school should act? I'm not the building

expert and I have neither the authority nor the access to conduct an

investigation.

The first task is to get the school (or company) to respond appropriately and

acknowledge that there may be a problem. I'm saying it is a mistake at this

point to make claims of specific cause, especially of mold. When they hear

" mold " they immediately discredit us and we may be wrong. We certainly have no

distinct evidence behind our claim.

It may be helpful to suggest a cause but the risk is all they have to do is

" disprove " your guess without an appropriate assessment.

This is typically what happens with a claim of mold. The school or company looks

for mold spores, based on your claim, totally ignoring all the other

microorganisms plus their secretions and emanations. They and their " expert "

then interpret the data and manipulate the language to their benefit leaving you

with nowhere to respond because your layman's diagnosis of mold was " disproved "

by an " expert. "

When you protest that you or your child is still sick they respond with " we did

what you asked by checking for mold and the experts said there is no mold

problem, which means there is no problem at all. Now go away and stop

interfering with us. "

If we had first established that there is an undetermined cause to a real

concern then they will not have a convenient excuse to stop looking after a

single misguided attempt. We want them to find the problem, not just disprove

one possibility.

Once there is an acceptance of a problem THEN I am in full agreement with you.

If we can't get that initial agreement then our own inspection might find one,

if they allow it. If not then you are right back where you started.

I think we agree on the how but I'm talking about when. Too soon and we hand

them an easy way out which all too readily take.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

(fm my Blackberry)

[] Re: Dr. Thrasher -- saving a bulk carpeting sample from

classroom? -

Carl: I disagree with you. The affected parties need to do what is necessary

to define the problem. Leaving the testing and inspection up to the school

authorities allows them to hide the truth. If the children are ill who are in

the classroom(s) then the parents have the inalienable right to step in and

conduct the appropriate testing with a qualified party who is not hired by the

School District. Conflicts of interests do occur..

Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Off: 916-745-4703

Cell: 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

916-745-4703 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

privileged and confidential. The forwarding or redistribution of this message

(and any attachments) without my prior written consent is strictly prohibited

and may violate privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this message has been

served, please destroy the original message contents. If you have received this

message in error, please reply immediately to advise the sender of the

miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies you have printed.

Thank you in advance for your compliance.

[Guest guest]

Carl: Yes I agree that an attempt should be made regarding the schools to

recognize and test for problems of IAQ. The suggestion of mold does lead to a

mood of rejection by the powers to be. However, the parents can still do things

that demonstrate that there is an IAQ problem. I suggest that the parents

install a portable HEPA filter in the classrooms based upon the illness of

certain children. When the filter is changed out after a couple of weeks, test

it by ERMI and for bacteria.

This was done at school in S. California. We then got in are proved the

children, parents and teachers to be correct in their assessment.

Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Off: 916-745-4703

Cell: 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

916-745-4703 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

privileged and confidential. The forwarding or redistribution of this message

(and any attachments) without my prior written consent is strictly prohibited

and may violate privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this message has been

served, please destroy the original message contents. If you have received this

message in error, please reply immediately to advise the sender of the

miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies you have printed.

Thank you in advance for your compliance.

[Guest guest]

Very good points Carl

________________________________

From: on behalf of Carl Grimes

Sent: Sat 3/20/2010 4:03 PM

Subject: Re: [] Re: Dr. Thrasher -- saving a bulk carpeting sample

from classroom? -

Jack,

I see our disagreement as highlighting a critical distinction.

I agree IF we can gain access to the school to conduct our own investigation.

How often does that happen?

Without that ability our biggest mistake is to try to force action with a claim

of " mold " thinking they fear mold as much as we do. In fact, mold is one of the

easiest claims to " disprove " with all the improper testing you and I keep

preaching about. Plus the manipulation of words and meaning.

I agree with you after a certain point in the process but not at the very

beginning. It's a question of strategy to begin action, not how to diagnose or

prove.

The distinction I'm making is between the first claim of an illness and then

followed by a claim of the cause (mold) of the illness.

If I claim my child is sick while at school, for example, and cite days of

absence and doctor visits with diagnosis is it also my job to identify the

problem with the school before the school should act? I'm not the building

expert and I have neither the authority nor the access to conduct an

investigation.

The first task is to get the school (or company) to respond appropriately and

acknowledge that there may be a problem. I'm saying it is a mistake at this

point to make claims of specific cause, especially of mold. When they hear

" mold " they immediately discredit us and we may be wrong. We certainly have no

distinct evidence behind our claim.

It may be helpful to suggest a cause but the risk is all they have to do is

" disprove " your guess without an appropriate assessment.

This is typically what happens with a claim of mold. The school or company looks

for mold spores, based on your claim, totally ignoring all the other

microorganisms plus their secretions and emanations. They and their " expert "

then interpret the data and manipulate the language to their benefit leaving you

with nowhere to respond because your layman's diagnosis of mold was " disproved "

by an " expert. "

When you protest that you or your child is still sick they respond with " we did

what you asked by checking for mold and the experts said there is no mold

problem, which means there is no problem at all. Now go away and stop

interfering with us. "

If we had first established that there is an undetermined cause to a real

concern then they will not have a convenient excuse to stop looking after a

single misguided attempt. We want them to find the problem, not just disprove

one possibility.

Once there is an acceptance of a problem THEN I am in full agreement with you.

If we can't get that initial agreement then our own inspection might find one,

if they allow it. If not then you are right back where you started.

I think we agree on the how but I'm talking about when. Too soon and we hand

them an easy way out which all too readily take.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

(fm my Blackberry)

[Guest guest]

AAH, good ole corticosteroids. They are used to reduce inflammation. In a nut

shell here is what happens when you use corticosteroids to reduce inflammation.

They do not inhibit the phagocytosis of mold spores and bacteria by the

macrophages. Thus, they are incorporated into the interior of the macrophage

and are still living. However, the corticosteroids inhibit the production of

reactive oxygen species and cytokines that are involved in the inflammatory

response. The oxidative burst is what kills the spores and bacteria. The data

that is in the peer reviewed literature shows that two or more weeks of

corticosteroid use increases the risk of developing aspergillosis in people with

a normal immune system. It you are in a mold/bacteria contaminated

home/building, you are being exposed to immuno-suppressive chemicals (mycotoxins

and bacterial exotoxins). Now add steroids to the picture. Aspergillus just

loves immune suppressed subjects.

I am please to know that Dr. Gray understands this. I reviewed this subject in

the attached paper.

Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Off: 916-745-4703

Cell: 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

916-745-4703 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

privileged and confidential. The forwarding or redistribution of this message

(and any attachments) without my prior written consent is strictly prohibited

and may violate privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this message has been

served, please destroy the original message contents. If you have received this

message in error, please reply immediately to advise the sender of the

miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies you have printed.

Thank you in advance for your compliance.

[Guest guest]

Thanks, I forgot about that. so really, you just shouldn't take and steriods at

all. It amases me that so many doctors prescribe these,

even ENT'S. even when you tell them about your exposures.

--- In , " Jack Thrasher, Ph.D. " <toxicologist1@...>

wrote:

>

> AAH, good ole corticosteroids. They are used to reduce inflammation. In a

nut shell here is what happens when you use corticosteroids to reduce

inflammation. They do not inhibit the phagocytosis of mold spores and bacteria

by the macrophages. Thus, they are incorporated into the interior of the

macrophage and are still living. However, the corticosteroids inhibit the

production of reactive oxygen species and cytokines that are involved in the

inflammatory response. The oxidative burst is what kills the spores and

bacteria. The data that is in the peer reviewed literature shows that two or

more weeks of corticosteroid use increases the risk of developing aspergillosis

in people with a normal immune system. It you are in a mold/bacteria

contaminated home/building, you are being exposed to immuno-suppressive

chemicals (mycotoxins and bacterial exotoxins). Now add steroids to the

picture. Aspergillus just loves immune suppressed subjects.

>

> I am please to know that Dr. Gray understands this. I reviewed this subject

in the attached paper.

>

> Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

> Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

> www.drthrasher.org

> toxicologist1@...

> Off: 916-745-4703

> Cell: 575-937-1150

>

>

> L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

> Trauma Specialist

> sandracrawley@...

> 916-745-4703 - Off

> 775-309-3994 - Cell

>

>

>

>

> This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

privileged and confidential. The forwarding or redistribution of this message

(and any attachments) without my prior written consent is strictly prohibited

and may violate privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this message has been

served, please destroy the original message contents. If you have received this

message in error, please reply immediately to advise the sender of the

miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies you have printed.

Thank you in advance for your compliance.

>

>

>

>