Over- Lapping Syndromes

[Guest guest]

CFS, FMS and MCS occur together in approximately 1/3 to 2/3 of all cases,

according to the first study of this overlap done in 1994. The MCS overlap was

perfectly symmetrical, with up to 67% of both CFS and FMS patients reporting a

worsening of symptoms following exposure to air pollution, cigarette smoke,

solvent fumes or perfumes. The FMS overlap also appears symmetrical, with 67% of

both MCS and CFS patients reporting muscle weakness and 63% to 77% complaining

of muscle and joint pain. And despite using an older (1988) and narrower

definition of CFS, the study found CFS in 70% of FMS and 30% of MCS patients.

Using the broader 1994 criteria for CFS, the overlap is much greater: a study of

100 new MCS patients found 88% also had CFS, 49% had FMS and 47% had all three!

These extensive overlaps highlight the need to screen patients for all three

disorders whenever any one is suspected.

http://www.mcsrr.org/factsheets/overlaping.html

So can we ask what other syndromes or diseases over-lap with CIRS ???

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

[Guest guest]

The Whittmore Institute is finding a strong correlation between

XMRV, a new human retrovirus, and chronic fatigue, lyme, even

parkinsons, MS, lymphoma and more.... research is still early, they are

not claiming causation...yet....

interesting that Ritchie Shoemaker also talks about helping some MS

patients with his mold protocol....

sue v.

[Guest guest]

theres alot of research out there that points to toxin exposure as one cause of

MS. I think if I would have went to a MS doctor after my exposure I may have

been diagnosed with progressive type MS.

relapsing MS.

>

> The Whittmore Institute is finding a strong correlation between

> XMRV, a new human retrovirus, and chronic fatigue, lyme, even

> parkinsons, MS, lymphoma and more.... research is still early, they are

> not claiming causation...yet....

>

> interesting that Ritchie Shoemaker also talks about helping some MS

> patients with his mold protocol....

>

>

> sue v.

>

[Guest guest]

I had FMS but not MCS, and now I have MCS but not FMS. Ha.

ap

---From: dragonflymcs

CFS, FMS and MCS occur together in approximately 1/3 to 2/3 of all cases,

according to the first study of this overlap done in 1994.

[Guest guest]

You do not have Fibro................. that great. I had IBS now I do not !!

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: anita paulsen <apami@...>

Sent: Mon, February 14, 2011 6:06:00 PM

Subject: Re: [] Over- Lapping Syndromes

I had FMS but not MCS, and now I have MCS but not FMS. Ha.

ap

[Guest guest]

That is great! We have enough things going on! lol.....

ap

----------------------------------

From: dragonflymcs



You do not have Fibro................. that great. I had IBS now I do not !!

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: anita paulsen <apami@...>

Sent: Mon, February 14, 2011 6:06:00 PM

Subject: Re: [] Over- Lapping Syndromes

I had FMS but not MCS, and now I have MCS but not FMS. Ha.

ap

[Guest guest]

this study is from 1994. anyone can take a set of symptoms and put a name on

it. truely, when these named diseases overlap, it might be because the true

disease that involves all these symptoms is not being reconized. toxic

encephalopathy with a chronic inflammatory reaction syndrome.

these symptoms can wax and wane, any given day I good be diagnosed with any or

all of these diseases. I have been diagnosed with all these dieases. I have been

diagnosed with TE and inflammation issues,

CIRS. we need to all be on the same page here.

we have TE and CIRS.

>

>CFS, FMS and MCS occur together in approximately 1/3 to 2/3 of all cases,

> according to the first study of this overlap done in 1994. The MCS overlap was

> perfectly symmetrical, with up to 67% of both CFS and FMS patients reporting a

> worsening of symptoms following exposure to air pollution, cigarette smoke,

> solvent fumes or perfumes.

[Guest guest]

I know it is old. I didn't have time for more research into something more

current.

I too have them , but I got Fibro way before the mold exposure. Years before.

So are we genetically disposed to get the others too ?? Given the right

circumstances for this to happen, like with a WDB.

Yes we do have TE and CIRS but other have MCS from other substances not

related to WDB so to include all I do not think is possible. Only in regards to

US in WDB. Only us here and not everyone in all circumstances.

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: osisposis <jeaninem660@...>

Sent: Wed, February 16, 2011 11:17:17 AM

Subject: [] Re: Over- Lapping Syndromes

this study is from 1994. anyone can take a set of symptoms and put a name on

it. truely, when these named diseases overlap, it might be because the true

disease that involves all these symptoms is not being reconized. toxic

encephalopathy with a chronic inflammatory reaction syndrome.

these symptoms can wax and wane, any given day I good be diagnosed with any or

all of these diseases. I have been diagnosed with all these dieases. I have been

diagnosed with TE and inflammation issues,

CIRS.

[Guest guest]

during my first exposure, fibro would of been the only one I would have got

dianosed with, maybe fatigue issues toward the end but not CFS and not MCS at

all. yet I had many symptoms that wouldn't be covered with fibro.

the reseaon though that I wouldn't use any of these terms now is mainly because

of what they are thought of to be or be caused from by

media,general public. fibro is thought to be overactive nerves,

MCS is thought to be sensitivity that goes away when you get away from the agent

causeing it. CFS is thought to be caused by virus,

cant say any of those ideas fit in with what I have. or ever did have.

and sadly some people thing that mold exposure simply means you've become

sensitive to mold and you cant get around it now.

even most people would think chemical sensitivity is like a allergy to

chemicals.

plus with the second exposure it just went way beyond these conditions. even

with a diagnoses of TE and CIRS, there could be other diseases diagnosed still

like RADS.

seems if we are going to stick with useing the WDB term we should have whats

called WDB disease. the discription should cover damages and effects from mild

to severe and even death in some cases.

I think it is my researching that has made me not very fond of the many many

diseases that we could be diagnosed with when they all fall into the catagory of

symptoms of. it just makes this whole thing more confuseing. say if you had to

present this illness to a jury and get them to understand it. if you go nameing

twenty different diseases this person has been diagnosed with, the jury just not

going to believe that. you are than going to have to explain that all these

diseases were diagnosed because they involved the same cluster of symptoms but

one body as a whole wasn't considered during that dianoses. when really all the

organs and systems are involved with this disease and the complexity is not so

complex when when you look at it as what it is. TE with CIRS. and than you can

go on to discuss

levels of damage to certain organs and what those mean.

as far as genitics, sorry, your talking to the wrong person there. I'll give it

that haveing the dreaded and not detoxing as well could

potentually make you much ill'er at a lower dose exposure but when the exposures

bad enought your not going to be keeping up with that exposure and you still

aren't going to be detoxing good enouigh and

weither you have the dreaded or not, it doesn't matter.

I dont have the dreaded and look what happened to me.

and I just have to say that I'm disturbed still by reading that you follow this

protocal and if you dont recover your genitics are to blame, because thats BS.

and I'm still not going to by or recommend a book that leaves me out of the

picture.

maybe it should be reconized that meningitis can and does happen with some of

these exposures and that if your suffered through this along with a severe level

of damage in many other key organs, that many protocals can cause re-accureing

meningitis and believe me, once you suffer with this condition, you really are

very leary about anything you want to try or any protocals, cause it's not a fun

time getting re-accureing meningitis, weither it's to a lesser degree or worse.

I dont like books that dont cover realm of what can happen here.

to me that simple omit, makes the book not factual.

and I have a right to fell that way no matter who the writer is.

when you write a book thats going to represent a group of sick people

you need to exspecially point out the worst case senarios. not lump everyone in

the one little box of what might be lower dose exposure and the dreaded. it just

doesn't work that way.

>

> I know it is old. I didn't have time for more research into something more

> current.

>

> I too have them , but I got Fibro way before the mold exposure. Years before.

> So are we genetically disposed to get the others too ?? Given the right

> circumstances for this to happen, like with a WDB.

>

> Yes we do have TE and CIRS but other have MCS from other substances not

> related to WDB so to include all I do not think is possible. Only in regards

to

> US in WDB. Only us here and not everyone in all circumstances.

[Guest guest]

I agree with some that you say and some maybe not, I am responding as a courtesy

as I do not have time right now to get into details.

In my case I am looking at all aspects of it. I developed pulmonary fibrosis in

2 weeks, I have the scans to prove it. I donot know I have any

gene susceptibility. The only thing I can say for sure is that I am severely

ill. and still being exposed. I have CIRS, TE, Fibro, PF, HP, BRtsis, and more.

I would like to know where I fit in.??

My fibro was more than 10 years before my exposure. Sorry about

your meningitis.

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: osisposis <jeaninem660@...>

Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:09:09 AM

Subject: [] Re: Over- Lapping Syndromes

during my first exposure, fibro would of been the only one I would have got

dianosed with, maybe fatigue issues toward the end but not CFS and not MCS at

all. yet I had many symptoms that wouldn't be covered with fibro.

the reseaon though that I wouldn't use any of these terms now is mainly because

of what they are thought of to be or be caused from by

media,general public. fibro is thought to be overactive nerves,

MCS is thought to be sensitivity that goes away when you get away from the agent

causeing it. CFS is thought to be caused by virus,

cant say any of those ideas fit in with what I have. or ever did have.

and sadly some people thing that mold exposure simply means you've become

sensitive to mold and you cant get around it now.

even most people would think chemical sensitivity is like a allergy to

chemicals.

plus with the second exposure it just went way beyond these conditions. even

with a diagnoses of TE and CIRS, there could be other diseases diagnosed still

like RADS.

seems if we are going to stick with useing the WDB term we should have whats

called WDB disease. the discription should cover damages and effects from mild

to severe and even death in some cases.

I think it is my researching that has made me not very fond of the many many

diseases that we could be diagnosed with when they all fall into the catagory of

symptoms of. it just makes this whole thing more confuseing. say if

[Guest guest]

no problem, I think we are kindof on the same page, yes, you cant get into this

type of discusion whatout haveing to write alot to cover each aspect, and's and

or's. all that. sometimes I exspect others to read between the lines and I

shouldn't exspect that.

as far as genitics I think mutations are a very real factor that doesn't get

much attn. many toxins can cause mutations.

as far as thoughts on CFS,MCS,fibro,I was baseing that on what if anything the

public heres from media and how they might precieve that info. based on that

info. alone. most people dont care and are not going to look deeper into

something unless it conserns them somehow.

the word sensitivity to many would make them think " allergy " .

saying that a reaction stops when you get away from the offending agent is not

the same as saying that the person well suffer everytime they have a re-exposure

to this same offending agent or other things that may have the same chemical

type makeup.

so, you can get diagnosed with any of these illness during and after WDB

exposure, but there are very different exposures and because you could get

diagnosed with any or one of these diseases at any point and time during your

exposure than further into the exposure you might could get diagnosed with

another one of these illnesses and so on, it all depends on the exposure and the

damage it's doing, weither it's a type of exposure thats slowly working on you

or a exposure that doesn't even give your body a chance to fight it off. and

everthing inbetween.

seems resonable to me that if they are looked at as what all involves these

diagnoses are actually symptoms of TE and that they may only be diagnosed at

certain points when those symptoms show theirself in a full manner , does not

mean the process of whats happening is not happening because you did not get

diagnosed with one of these diseases. kindof like when someone refers to full

blown MCS as opposed to MCS or chemical sensitivities, how do you really define

between full blown MCS and anything lessor? so really the term chemical

sensitivity covers that event at all or any stage.

see what I'm saying? just because you aren't diagnosed with something doesn't

you you dont have it at some level or another.

I can say my first exposure didn't cause full blown MCS but I know that those

pathways were getting exposure and were getting affected to some level. and had

I went to the right doctor during my first exposure I probably would of still

been diagnosed with TE and CIRS if those would have been known than but they

weren't.

and all the symptoms of these diseases are symptoms of TE and CIRS is a

co-factor of the multi-organ and system damage. anytime you have tissue damage

you have a inflammatory reaction, while in a WDB and with insults afterwards you

have a inflammatory reaction. when the immune system becomes disfunctional and

the macrophages go to the dark side, you have CIRS. it is a change from

inflammation that is supposed to be helping with healing to inflammation that

causes more damage.

I really dont think you would get diagnosed with MCS and not have some fatigue

issues or fibro type issues which to me is more about nerve damage. nerve damage

and sensory disfunctions go hand and hand.

there can be differences in CNS damage and PNS damage and affects.

you may fell the CNS effects more so than the PNS effects or visa versa or both

can be very obvious. so really the severity of damage may directly effect what

you are diagnosed with but that doesn't mean because you were not diagnosed that

you dont have some level of damage going on there.

when someone is diagnosed with MCS like iol spill workers for example

it doesn't mean that if that exposure continued on it would not be TE. say they

were chronicly exposed in a confinded area, closed in area, they not doubt could

have gotten TE OR BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH IT INSTEAD OF mcs. at that point or even

before that point,depending on the doctors they go to they could also get

diagnosed with CFS and FM.

this is all about toxicity and organ and system damage. it's about TE.

so you can say these diseases with overlapping symptoms or you could possabily

say these symptoms of TE Aand CIRS and talk about severity

of these diseases. look into railroad workers and TE, CAUSED BY CHEMICAL

EXPOSURE.

the fact that CFS,FM,and MCS can be diagnosed by causes other than WDB exposures

is a good reason why we should refer to them as symptom of TE CAUSED BY wdb

exposure. SORRY ,OFF ON HITTING CAPPS, HAPPENS WHEN I TRY TO WRITE TO MUCH. I

think we need a peper on this subject, we need a name to our disease and all of

these diseases should be listed as diseases diagnosed by a clustering symptoms

that

can accure with or in the progress of WDB disease.something along those

lines,clearifiy that, I dont have the ability to state it properly, but holy

cow, we do need clearifacation of our disease and what it can involve. it needs

to somehow have all the complexity simplafied, not only for us and the public

but for lawyers takeing on this cases, exspecially when they have to prove them

to a jury.

it sure would be nice if I could read a article that discribes what happened to

me and why. all I'm asking for is one that goes into the subject of CSF

infection and meningitis that can accure in WDB EXPOSURES, weither from

bacteria, fungal or inflammatory/sterial meningitis. the possablity of CSF leaks

from the sinuses and ears,

CSF rhinoreehea which isn't a spontanious type CSF rhinoreehea.

every case is different. if it had not been for my first exposure I would not be

able to comprehend why people was saying they continue to become even more

reactive after their exposures, because my second exposure left me with it being

about as bad as it gets and I could only get better from there not worse.

and I still had a problem of seeing others views because I didn't experience

reactivity with my first exposure and I wasn't becomeing reactive in any way

that might or might not have shown itself after that exposure

I didn't get the chance to find that out. but I can say that I spent

alot of times, first exposure where I would be away from the house several days

and wouldn't experience a reaconized type of reaction

known as chemical sensitivity when I re-entered my home. other reactions yes.

and I still would fell pretty much well during those times I was away from my

home and no other places caused me noticable reactions that I could refer to as

chemical reactions.

thing is that my first exposure was a whole lot different than the second one,

dry toxic dust vs. high moisture and voc's out the ying-yang would be how I'd

put it. and I really do believe based on my experience that they reactive

syndrome is mostly caused by chemicals /vocs. and that while mycotoxins do

considerable tissue and organ damage, they are very sneaky and do cause brain

effects, and do play a role in damageing the trigiminal nerve and olfactory

system but I'm just not convience that neurons program to them, for one reson,

they dont have a smell and for another reason, because the few times I have

suffered affects from re-exposure to my first house

yes, it caused brain effects but not the same as re-exposures to chemicals/vocs

cause, it's just a different effect in the brain.

it's a somewhat delayed effect,where my chemical sensitivities are immediate

effects with some effects being delayed.

how to explain. what I can better judge this by is my lungs and chemicals/vocs

cause a RADS effect where re-exposure to my first house didn't unless I went to

the third floor after a rain where the moisture and vocs were consentrated.

my first exposure didn't cause RADS symptoms, the second one did.

the thing is, all these diseases are symptoms resulting from specific damage to

specific organs and systems.

I'm in the position where I have to be able to sort them out to some extent.

what I can do is sort out symptoms from each WDB.

how I would still recover while being away from my first home and how I didn't

after exposure with the second home makes a hudge difference, and had I not been

exposed in the second home I probably would be a member of this group today. not

saying I wouldn't have been left with some effects from that exposure. I only

have to look as far as my daughters and grandkids who all spent time in both

these homes to different exstents to see that on going problems related to that

first exposure would have been a factor but that I may of still of been able to

have a somewhat normal life.

with the main exception of no longer being able to have any more children. I do

know that the inflammation and back problems that caused horriable pain and

suffering in the first exposure would of improved and become manageable though

it wouldn't have fix my work related back injury. this is the way it is now,

with the exspection that my back can get aggervated and inflammed sometimes with

re-exposures, right along with other re-accureing effects.

still I wouldn't classify them as haveing TE or CIRS.

but anything they might get diagnosed with involveing effects caused by my WDB's

I would call symptoms of WDB exposure.

so why dont we give our disease a name, and if we are going to stick with WDB as

a meaning to cover contaminants in a WDB, seems WDB disease might be a good name

to put on it.

exspecially now that theres getting to be a better understanding of WDB

exposures and what they can do.

>

> I agree with some that you say and some maybe not, I am responding as a

courtesy

> as I do not have time right now to get into details.

> In my case I am looking at all aspects of it. I developed pulmonary fibrosis

in

> 2 weeks, I have the scans to prove it. I donot know I have any

> gene susceptibility. The only thing I can say for sure is that I am severely

> ill. and still being exposed. I have CIRS, TE, Fibro, PF, HP, BRtsis, and

more.

> I would like to know where I fit in.??

>

> My fibro was more than 10 years before my exposure. Sorry about

> your meningitis.

>

> God Bless !!

> dragonflymcs

> Mayleen

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: osisposis <jeaninem660@...>

>

> Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 10:09:09 AM

> Subject: [] Re: Over- Lapping Syndromes

>

>

> during my first exposure, fibro would of been the only one I would have got

> dianosed with, maybe fatigue issues toward the end but not CFS and not MCS at

> all. yet I had many symptoms that wouldn't be covered with fibro.

>

[Guest guest]

I agree, saying the person gets better when removed also does not explain that

you will be ill after for maybe months from that exposure.

I do believe the public needs educating and using the (wrong ) terms out of

here would create more confusion that help us in any way.

True and we were all exposed differently. Some may have had additional

exposures unrelated to WDB. It is said the 6% of the population has severe

chemical intolerance ( i say I fall there) , then we are back to the stages of

the disease ???

I've seen the railroad workers with TE.

I agree that every case is different, as to what exposures you had or

combination of exposures. WDB, Oil, Gas, Chem combos,

Since the illness for WDB has a name (CIRS) we should be using the term. But

sometimes some one wants to refer to a specific problem they are having

(chemical) no WDB and so I believe it is then when the term MCS, TE is being

brought up. How to fix this, I do not know ........................ I guess

sticking to TE here and CIRS

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: osisposis <jeaninem660@...>

Sent: Fri, February 18, 2011 1:05:50 PM

Subject: [] Re: Over- Lapping Syndromes

no problem, I think we are kindof on the same page,

[Guest guest]

maybe just saying chemical sensitivies instead of MCS would be better.

>

> I agree, saying the person gets better when removed also does not explain that

> you will be ill after for maybe months from that exposure.

>

[Guest guest]

They are trying to change that one too, to Toxic Injuries, I prefer

Intolerance as a description myself here anyways personally because sensitivity

just makes it so meaningless to me, well you are JUST sensitive, when I am

severely ill from it, not sensitive. .

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: osisposis <jeaninem660@...>

Sent: Sun, February 20, 2011 3:24:03 AM

Subject: [] Re: Over- Lapping Syndromes

maybe just saying chemical sensitivies instead of MCS would be better.

>

> I agree, saying the person gets better when removed also does not explain that

> you will be ill after for maybe months from that exposure.

>

[Guest guest]

YES, I fell the same way about the word " sensitivities " to me it

fit's in more with allergy than intolerance.

>

> They are trying to change that one too, to Toxic Injuries, I prefer

> Intolerance as a description myself here anyways personally because

sensitivity

> just makes it so meaningless to me, well you are JUST sensitive, when I am

> severely ill from it, not sensitive. .

>

> God Bless !!

> dragonflymcs

> Mayleen