Hoarders

[Guest guest]

Gail our mardi gras queen, KathyR and Lesli,

While its great to throw away what we call junk, to our hoarders, these

are precious items!! The collecting of the items is a compulsion. We have to

treat the reactions to the anxiety like any other ocd exposure. If we can

dispose of items without causing anxiety - great! The problem is really in

the collecting of it, though!

Pre-treatment times, I found a waist high (ok, thigh high for you) pile of

catalogues in Tom's room. I was about to touch one to see what they were,

when he screamed at me like I had slapped him!! I told him that they were

just out of date and junk, dusk collectors - all kinds of seemingly rational

things... but he could not understand me. His catalogues were as important

to him as any other ritual. He had over 10,000 hockey cards at the same

time. He also had several hundred baseball cards that he would give away 'as

if' he was parting from his collection - until i caught on to it!

Parting from old clothing is hard for a lot of people. My experiences here

are that if they know where they are going (friend, charity,...) its easier

to remove it from home. I have heard my crew say that clothing can't be

garbage and must be recycled! At one point I had several shirts to use for

sewing patches, but since they were mine and that phase moved on quickly

(hehehe) I parted with the rags fairly quickly!

Like Jay and his mother, I also remember our serious hoarding days as a

time when nothing could be moved or touched without causing a level of

anxiety.

I look around today and happily accept a level of clutter - since its

about 80% less than it was 3 years ago! Our garage looks less like a

hardware store, the basement is not so full, ziv's cupboard doors open and

close and even tom has stopped many of his collections!

take care all - wendy, in canada

==================================

> IMHO, it does not matter to me how or why Harold hoards - my response

>is that, like Lesli, I warn him of impending doom, in the form of throwing

>stuff out, then repeat the warning. Then, without further fanfare, I

>strike! And yes, even with warning, I bury it all at the bottom of the

>trash bag, away from prying eyes and hands. I am selective in pitching

>stuff. I don't throw away obvious sentimental things, though I do truly

>wonder how strong CAN you be attached to 20+ bowling trophies? Nor do I

>fool with business/tax/bank papers. But the rest is fair game!!!

_________________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

I was watching the program Hoarders and there was some lady who had mold in her

house for a number of years. I didnt watch the entire program but from what I

watched there was only one family member that suffered from a sinus infection

and she wasnt even sure if it was caused from the mold. This persons entire

family lives in a moldy house for years and one person possibly got sick I lived

in WDB for 6 weeks and it put me in the hospital twice. How can this be?

[Guest guest]

Who knows? Bad luck? In some ways I guess I'm glad that not everybody gets

sick-that would make for a disastrous world.

>

> I was watching the program Hoarders and there was some lady who had mold in

her house for a number of years. I didnt watch the entire program but from what

I watched there was only one family member that suffered from a sinus infection

and she wasnt even sure if it was caused from the mold. This persons entire

family lives in a moldy house for years and one person possibly got sick I lived

in WDB for 6 weeks and it put me in the hospital twice. How can this be?

>

[Guest guest]

Dave,

everyone is different, that's why, my 21 yo son can't get out of bed, he

has lung damage, neuro damage, sinus problems, hormonal problems,

neuromuscular problems, digestive problems, sleep problems and the list

goes on, the other 3 of us are functional and basically ok.

my grandmother lived in a musty cottage at the sea for years, she lived

to 104 yo.....

life is not fair!

sue v

This persons entire family lives in a moldy house for years and

>one person possibly got sick I lived in WDB for 6 weeks and it put me in

>the hospital twice. How can this be?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Contemplating upon the research of Dr. Wallach, perhaps there is an

underlying mineral or nutritional deficiency in those who are more sensitive

than others...

Another avenue, I would seek out the advice and wisdom of an OMD or Chinese

herbalist or naturopath.

Jeri

On Sep 21, 2010 7:52 PM, " sue " <svican@...> wrote:

> Dave,

>

> everyone is different, that's why, my 21 yo son can't get out of bed, he

> has lung damage, neuro damage, sinus problems, hormonal problems,

> neuromuscular problems, digestive problems, sleep problems and the list

> goes on, the other 3 of us are functional and basically ok.

>

> my grandmother lived in a musty cottage at the sea for years, she lived

> to 104 yo.....

>

> life is not fair!

[Guest guest]

Perhaps the hoarders did experience toxigenic reactions. If they were only

focusing on allergic type reactions, they might not have considered symptoms,

such as memory fog, chronic fatigue, and others, to be associated with mold

exposure. Based on what I have seen in most of my clients that are hoarders,

most, if not all of them, have water damage. Perhaps there is a connection

between exposures in WDB and the hoarding.

Connie Morbach, M.S., CHMM, CIE

Sanit-Air, Inc.

cleanlinest.wordpress.com

> > Dave,

> >

> > everyone is different, that's why, my 21 yo son can't get out of bed, he

> > has lung damage, neuro damage, sinus problems, hormonal problems,

> > neuromuscular problems, digestive problems, sleep problems and the list

> > goes on, the other 3 of us are functional and basically ok.

> >

> > my grandmother lived in a musty cottage at the sea for years, she lived

> > to 104 yo.....

> >

> > life is not fair!

>

[Guest guest]

I would suggest to you that perhaps some of the " hoarding " is just

plain " can't-catch-up " with cleaning or normal daily chores because of

the CFS and pain.

Barth

www.presenting.net/sbs/sbs.html

SUBMIT YOUR DOCTOR: www.presenting.net/sbs/molddoctors.html

---

C> Perhaps the hoarders did experience toxigenic reactions. If they were only

focusing on allergic type reactions, they might not have considered symptoms,

such as memory fog, chronic fatigue, and

C> others, to be associated with mold exposure. Based on what I have seen in

most of my clients that are hoarders, most, if not all of them, have water

damage. Perhaps there is a connection between

C> exposures in WDB and the hoarding.

C> Connie Morbach, M.S., CHMM, CIE

C> Sanit-Air, Inc.

C> cleanlinest.wordpress.com

C>

>> > Dave,

>> >

>> > everyone is different, that's why, my 21 yo son can't get out of bed, he

>> > has lung damage, neuro damage, sinus problems, hormonal problems,

>> > neuromuscular problems, digestive problems, sleep problems and the list

>> > goes on, the other 3 of us are functional and basically ok.

>> >

>> > my grandmother lived in a musty cottage at the sea for years, she lived

>> > to 104 yo.....

>> >

>> > life is not fair!

>>

[Guest guest]

I watched a little bit more of the show and the one family member that was

effected by the mold said she was so sick at times she didnt think she would

live long enough to reach adulthood so she could move out. It appears she had

more going on than she said on camera.

Tug

> > > Dave,

> > >

> > > everyone is different, that's why, my 21 yo son can't get out of bed, he

> > > has lung damage, neuro damage, sinus problems, hormonal problems,

> > > neuromuscular problems, digestive problems, sleep problems and the list

> > > goes on, the other 3 of us are functional and basically ok.

> > >

> > > my grandmother lived in a musty cottage at the sea for years, she lived

> > > to 104 yo.....

> > >

> > > life is not fair!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

for the record, i agree with this post.

victoria

From: Patilla DaHun <glypella@...>

Subject: Re: [] Re: Hoarders

" Connie " < >

Date: Wednesday, September 22, 2010, 3:38 PM

 

I would suggest to you that perhaps some of the " hoarding " is just

plain " can't-catch-up " with cleaning or normal daily chores because of

the CFS and pain.

Barth

www.presenting.net/sbs/sbs.html

SUBMIT YOUR DOCTOR: www.presenting.net/sbs/molddoctors.html

---

C> Perhaps the hoarders did experience toxigenic reactions. If they were only

focusing on allergic type reactions, they might not have considered symptoms,

such as memory fog, chronic fatigue, and

C> others, to be associated with mold exposure. Based on what I have seen in

most of my clients that are hoarders, most, if not all of them, have water

damage. Perhaps there is a connection between

C> exposures in WDB and the hoarding.

C> Connie Morbach, M.S., CHMM, CIE

C> Sanit-Air, Inc.

C> cleanlinest.wordpress.com

C>

>> > Dave,

>> >

>> > everyone is different, that's why, my 21 yo son can't get out of bed, he

>> > has lung damage, neuro damage, sinus problems, hormonal problems,

>> > neuromuscular problems, digestive problems, sleep problems and the list

>> > goes on, the other 3 of us are functional and basically ok.

>> >

>> > my grandmother lived in a musty cottage at the sea for years, she lived

>> > to 104 yo.....

>> >

>> > life is not fair!

>>

[Guest guest]

I've watched some of these, some had unknown water leaks, some had mold growth

related to mice problems, some had mold growth from food left laying around. so

in some cases hoarding may have came first, others may have been mold exposure

first, hard to say. the frontal lobes are connected with ACD's, AD, ect. can see

how what they may have been smelling alot of, mold,chemicals off gassing from

purchased items ,plactic bags and so on could possably affect them worse.

> >> > Dave,

> >> >

> >> > everyone is different, that's why, my 21 yo son can't get out of bed, he

> >> > has lung damage, neuro damage, sinus problems, hormonal problems,

> >> > neuromuscular problems, digestive problems, sleep problems and the list

> >> > goes on, the other 3 of us are functional and basically ok.

> >> >

> >> > my grandmother lived in a musty cottage at the sea for years, she lived

> >> > to 104 yo.....

> >> >

> >> > life is not fair!

> >>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I only know what I've seen on these shows.  It seems they have a problem letting

go of junk. It fills a void in their life. They're overwhelmed & don't know

where to start. It's an OCD disease.

There is a difference w  people w health problems that want things clean if they

had help.

I can't imagine feces or food that rotten in a kitchen or fridge.

Our daughter had a friend who didn't  invite her. We dropped off the girl one

day when her parents weren't home. I peeked inside & couldn't believe there were

many stacks of newspapers to the ceiling & a big mess. I never saw anything like

that before.

Kathy

tug_slug@...>

Re: Hoarders

I remember when I first started going over to her house there was cat feces on

the kids bathroom wall so i asked her about it, she gave me same lame excuse as

to why it was there so I left it at that. Two weeks later the cat feces was

still all over the wall when I asked her about it again her reply was " why

should i clean it, its not my bathroom? " . i never really though this woman had

a mental disability i just thought she was lazy, smoked to much and the 12 pack

of beer she drank a night didn't help my opinion of her.

[Guest guest]

It's good they have these shows to inspire hoarders to see they're sick & get

help.

[Guest guest]

I have also seen the opposite. If the hoarders aren't affected by

dust and mold but are reactive to chemicals they tend to not

clean but also let " stuff " accumulate for reasons along the lines

already described here.

BTW, some of the sickest houses I've seen are the super

immaculate houses. No clutter, no dust, no hoarding. Clean

desks and table tops. They clean, clean, and clean some more

with the strongest cleaners they can find. They vacuum several

times a day. Not a month or a week but every day. Their

exposures to dust, dander, and chemicals is therefore several

times greater than those who don't clean and don't disturb

surfaces (such as those who hoard).

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

Perhaps the hoarders did experience toxigenic reactions. If they were only

focusing on allergic type reactions, they might not have considered symptoms,

such as memory fog, chronic fatigue, and others, to be associated with mold

exposure. Based on what I have seen in most of my clients that are hoarders,

most, if not all of them, have water damage. Perhaps there is a connection

between exposures in WDB and the hoarding.

Connie Morbach, M.S., CHMM, CIE

Sanit-Air, Inc.

cleanlinest.wordpress.com

> > Dave,

> >

> > everyone is different, that's why, my 21 yo son can't get out of bed, he

> > has lung damage, neuro damage, sinus problems, hormonal problems,

> > neuromuscular problems, digestive problems, sleep problems and the list

> > goes on, the other 3 of us are functional and basically ok.

> >

> > my grandmother lived in a musty cottage at the sea for years, she lived

> > to 104 yo.....

> >

> > life is not fair!

>

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[Guest guest]

It's very bad for your health, because you cannot keep place clean, and I do

think also that it can look like hoarding, but is not, if you are just too tired

to take care of things.

>

There is a difference w  people w health problems that want things clean if they

had help.

>

[Guest guest]

I'm not a hoarder, but it truely has been very hard to keep my house as clean as

it needs to be because of my fatique. I really could care less about material

things these days, the less the better in my view.

I have a hard enough time keeping the floors,dishes and laudry done and keeping

things that mold attacrts to out of my life.

cant even leave a cup of coffee setting or fruit setting out on the counter for

grandkids, cant tell you how many times a small dot of mold growing on a orange

as tottally messed me up. I just have tottally given up on fresh fruit, and

keeping the trash dumped on a daily bases is very important, keeping the fridge

cleaned out, bakeing soda in the sink drains, things regular people dont even

worry about.

>

> It's very bad for your health, because you cannot keep place clean, and I do

think also that it can look like hoarding, but is not, if you are just too tired

to take care of things.

[Guest guest]

good point, filth that isn't stirred up can affect you less than filth that is,

except things that offgas or put particles into the air. even in a desent place

now with this illness I notice how fans running or vacumming bother me more.

kind of like when the wind would blow and I was liveing in my victorian with

roof leaks,no insulation in walls and several sets of pocket doors, no forced

air system but in winter steam heat forces air circulation in a upward draft. I

difenity had worse symptoms on windy days and in the winter months with steam

heat running.

>

> I have also seen the opposite. If the hoarders aren't affected by

> dust and mold but are reactive to chemicals they tend to not

> clean but also let " stuff " accumulate for reasons along the lines

> already described here.

>

> BTW, some of the sickest houses I've seen are the super

> immaculate houses. No clutter, no dust, no hoarding. Clean

> desks and table tops. They clean, clean, and clean some more

> with the strongest cleaners they can find. They vacuum several

> times a day. Not a month or a week but every day. Their

> exposures to dust, dander, and chemicals is therefore several

> times greater than those who don't clean and don't disturb

> surfaces (such as those who hoard).

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

[Guest guest]

same reasoning I guess of why I cant stand to open my windows except after a

nice rain knocks down all the particles and whatever out of the air.

> >

> > I have also seen the opposite. If the hoarders aren't affected by

> > dust and mold but are reactive to chemicals they tend to not

> > clean but also let " stuff " accumulate for reasons along the lines

> > already described here.

> >

> > BTW, some of the sickest houses I've seen are the super

> > immaculate houses. No clutter, no dust, no hoarding. Clean

> > desks and table tops. They clean, clean, and clean some more

> > with the strongest cleaners they can find. They vacuum several

> > times a day. Not a month or a week but every day. Their

> > exposures to dust, dander, and chemicals is therefore several

> > times greater than those who don't clean and don't disturb

> > surfaces (such as those who hoard).

> >

> > Carl Grimes

> > Healthy Habitats LLC

> >

>

[Guest guest]

That's really surprising Carl. I would have thought that the ideal is to clean,

vaccuum daily. I've been told to vacuum carpet daily. I just can't imagine

that much would accumulate on carpet or surfaces in a 24 hour period, but I am

beginning to see, even with too much air cleaner use, that the recirculating of

air keeps things airbourne longer and more in your face. I tested an apartment

with hardwood floors, and clean looking with mold plates. It came out really,

really good. I moved in on a month to month lease only to find I couldn't live

there. Turns out it smelled good because people were cooking when I went

through and looked at it, on move in day, with them gone, it had a stuffy odor

and they had only been gone a couple of days; then discovered all knds of indoor

air problems but mold plate was good apparently because there was no forced air

system and nothing was in the air. when the baseboard heaters went on or air

conditioner kicked on or I put kitchen fan on it was a different thing. I

guess a happy medium here. Certainly that someone who hoards would have TONS of

dust mites which would be a problem for me or I think anyone with chronic

inflamation. -- In

, " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

>

> I have also seen the opposite. If the hoarders aren't affected by

> dust and mold but are reactive to chemicals they tend to not

> clean but also let " stuff " accumulate for reasons along the lines

> already described here.

>

> BTW, some of the sickest houses I've seen are the super

> immaculate houses. No clutter, no dust, no hoarding. Clean

> desks and table tops. They clean, clean, and clean some more

> with the strongest cleaners they can find. They vacuum several

> times a day. Not a month or a week but every day. Their

> exposures to dust, dander, and chemicals is therefore several

> times greater than those who don't clean and don't disturb

> surfaces (such as those who hoard).

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

[Guest guest]

I never thought about it in that respect and it makes perfect sense but doesnt

fresh air blowing through the house help to partially eliminate those particles

that are making us sick?

>

> same reasoning I guess of why I cant stand to open my windows except after a

nice rain knocks down all the particles and whatever out of the air.

[Guest guest]

if theres airflow in and out, I think so, if the outside air is better than the

inside air.

> >

> > same reasoning I guess of why I cant stand to open my windows except after a

nice rain knocks down all the particles and whatever out of the air.

>

[Guest guest]

There's definitely a pretty strong breeze being circulated when we have both

east and west facing windows open but for whatever reason I feel more

symptomatic when the temperature gets above 80 degrees. Today it was over 85 and

I was miserable now that it's cooled down Im feeling much better.I really wish

this was the beginning of summer rather then end. I'd really like to buy a tent

and live in the mountains for a couple of months just to see how it would effect

me.

Sorry for straying off topic

Tug

>

> if theres airflow in and out, I think so, if the outside air is better than

the inside air.

[Guest guest]

It depends on what particles make you sick. Each of us is different. Just

looking at it from an allergic standpoint, for example, some people are allergic

to " outdoor molds " so that strategy wouldn't work, whereas, for me, that

strategy may work because I am allergic to the molds found primarily in

water-damaged buildings. Confounding the discussion are differences in

environmental pollutants, which vary region to region and even neighborhood to

neighborhood, as well as what other allergens in the outdoor environment could

contribute.

Have you ever gotten tested for allergies in general, Dave?

On Sep 29, 2010, at 6:30 PM, " Tug " <tug_slug@...> wrote:

I never thought about it in that respect and it makes perfect sense but doesnt

fresh air blowing through the house help to partially eliminate those particles

that are making us sick?

>

> same reasoning I guess of why I cant stand to open my windows except after a

nice rain knocks down all the particles and whatever out of the air.

[Guest guest]

AN, when I was first exposed I saw my GP and he referred me to an allergist who

in turn did a number of tests and said I was allergic to mold and yeast. When I

complained about how sick I was he gave me singular and claritan and said I

needed to see a therapist which at the time I was seeing. It wasn't till I saw

an ENT did I start to receive the proper treatment, he assured me that what I

was experiencing was real and could be treated but I must vacate the WDB I was

living in and leave my belongings behind or put them in storage. After about two

months of being mold free and with the help of the proper medication did I start

to see some improvement but now that Im back in a house that had mold I've

become symptomatic again.

> Have you ever gotten tested for allergies in general, Dave?

[Guest guest]

it took me awhile to realize I had heat sensitivity because to me heat,hot and

dry also means more airborn particles,gases,ect. airborne.

it could be either/or or both heat and high consentration of

" air polution " , but sence you fell better when it cools off and it hasn't rained

or amount of " air polution " has possably not changed from earlier that day when

it was also hot, it sounds like heat sensitivity.

>

> There's definitely a pretty strong breeze being circulated when we have both

east and west facing windows open but for whatever reason I feel more

symptomatic when the temperature gets above 80 degrees. Today it was over 85 and

I was miserable now that it's cooled down Im feeling much better.I really wish

this was the beginning of summer rather then end. I'd really like to buy a tent

and live in the mountains for a couple of months just to see how it would effect

me.

>

> Sorry for straying off topic

>

> Tug

>

[Guest guest]

I was just wondering if you had other allergies besides mold and etc. What is

the medication that you took/are taking?

From: Tug <tug_slug@...>

Subject: [] Re: Hoarders

Date: Thursday, September 30, 2010, 7:52 PM

AN, when I was first exposed I saw my GP and he referred me to an

allergist who in turn did a number of tests and said I was allergic to mold and

yeast. When I complained about how sick I was he gave me singular and claritan

and said I needed to see a therapist which at the time I was seeing. It wasn't

till I saw an ENT did I start to receive the proper treatment, he assured me

that what I was experiencing was real and could be treated but I must vacate the

WDB I was living in and leave my belongings behind or put them in storage. After

about two months of being mold free and with the help of the proper medication

did I start to see some improvement but now that Im back in a house that had

mold I've become symptomatic again.

> Have you ever gotten tested for allergies in general, Dave?