Re: in NYC

[Guest guest]

" Laurie Shuman " wrote:

>hey steve- this is lauren - i was at katie too- and was sitting right behind

the woman who was intense about her son was killing himself- i also got to met

carol- sorry i missed you!

oooohhhh, i am sorry to have missed meeting you also. i was leaning against the

wall, on that same side of the room, about 5 rows behind you.

the guy who owned the streets of nyc, was one row in front of the 12 year old

girl, he was equal to my distance back, directly accross the room from me.

i thought katie's work with the sad woman was the most interesting and

powerful of the day.

i saw the sameness and the difference between katie's ways and my ways in that

instance. i was thinking it would be helpful for that woman to go into the

dynamic of her son getting what he wanted, to punish her, through her being

upset, katie kept away from that theorizing, and just kept the focus on the

woman's work for the sake of herself, on herself.

i feel sure katie's experience incorporated those results in the dynamic, but

she kept her focus so simple with the woman on her own process.

the contrast is that i love the details, that is why i am not a teacher, but an

explorer, and katie is like a zen master, cutting away all but the simple and

essential.

see you next time.

steve

__________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

i like what you said about the woman and katie's and your way of looking at it-

i noticed that the woman left almost immediately after and i wondered what she

was thinking. i also noted that sometimes in the past (in the way past) i have

seen katie in a similar situation just " drop " the person and i didn't understand

why for yrs and i have come to see that if someone is so emeshed in his/her

story, EVEN THOUGH- or perhaps BECAUSE it is causing him pain, katie will just-

let him have his story. katie will not try to take away your story. i have also

heard her ask several times- do you really want to know the truth? and in the

joshua tree school i attended with katie, when they were training people to do

the work with others, she said if you can see the person wants their story and

you ask them several times if they really want to know the truth, then just say,

" let's have tea " ! my analysis was that the woman and her son seemed fairly

bonded in the drama- and it defined who she was.....and what do I

know...hahahahah. lauren

Re: in NYC

" Laurie Shuman " wrote:

>hey steve- this is lauren - i was at katie too- and was sitting right behind

the woman who was intense about her son was killing himself- i also got to met

carol- sorry i missed you!

oooohhhh, i am sorry to have missed meeting you also. i was leaning against

the wall, on that same side of the room, about 5 rows behind you.

the guy who owned the streets of nyc, was one row in front of the 12 year old

girl, he was equal to my distance back, directly accross the room from me.

i thought katie's work with the sad woman was the most interesting and

powerful of the day.

i saw the sameness and the difference between katie's ways and my ways in that

instance. i was thinking it would be helpful for that woman to go into the

dynamic of her son getting what he wanted, to punish her, through her being

upset, katie kept away from that theorizing, and just kept the focus on the

woman's work for the sake of herself, on herself.

i feel sure katie's experience incorporated those results in the dynamic, but

she kept her focus so simple with the woman on her own process.

the contrast is that i love the details, that is why i am not a teacher, but

an explorer, and katie is like a zen master, cutting away all but the simple and

essential.

see you next time.

steve

__________________________________________________________________

Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience

the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape!

http://shopnow.netscape.com/

Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at

http://webmail.netscape.com/

[Guest guest]

sandy- i heard your work- i thought it was fabulous- you were so open- thank

you- i loved it....now i have reaffirmed- all i have to do is apologize to my

niece for my part and it's done- whether or not she ever accepts it or speaks to

me again......thank you sandy

in NYC

Hi everyone! I, too, was at the seminar with in NYC on 6/15.

Actually, I was blessed to be one of the people who did work with

about my father. While I was skeptical of the whole process

(and of most spiritual/religious matters), I came with an open mind

and heart and was amazed at how simple the work is.

At the end of my work with that day, I came to the realization

that while I came into the work with the belief that my father owed

me an apology for his abuse, I also needed to apologize to him as

well. Since my father has rebuffed all attempts to contact him over

the past 4 years, I took 's suggestion to leave him a voice

mail, apologizing for my wrongdoings to him. I NEVER THOUGHT THAT I

COULD OR WOULD WANT TO. But I wanted to be out of pain more that I

was afraid. So I made the call and left the message.

My father has not returned the call as of yet. He may never.

Expecting an action fron him was not the goal for me. My goal was to

find the truth and do my work on myself, minding my own business.

Whether he calls me or not is his business, not mine.

Thanks you all for your love and encouragment. I met Carol, too.

She's been a great help to me ...thank you.

Love, Sandy

[Guest guest]

> sandy- i heard your work- i thought it was fabulous- you were so

open- thank you- i loved it....now i have reaffirmed- all i have to

do is apologize to my niece for my part and it's done- whether or not

she ever accepts it or speaks to me again......thank you sandy

> in NYC

>

>

>

> Hi Laurie,

Thanks for your feedback and for your support and

affirmation....I'm still reeling from it all (in a good way). I'm so

grateful for all the loving energy I felt from and others in

the room. It is an experience I will treasure always.

Love, Sandy

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear all, i have been privileged to be listening to all your

experiences so far, and i have tried real hard to do the work on the

lines that other people do.

I still very much like the idea of not taking responsibility or too

much responsiblity for that which is not changeable, and do what we

can do. But we live in an interdependant world, and like it or not we

are part of a bigger reality that is more than our own thoughts and

experiences.

It takes a bit more than 'i'll do my bit and let it be' attitude to

heal the world - whether it is our own personal lives or any social

problem. I don't know how to explain it more than that, but what i am

looking for is probably a more compassionate, understanding

relationship to that which is not changeable.

My best wishes to you all,

M.

[Guest guest]

" Dear all, i have been privileged to be listening to all your

experiences so far, and i have tried real hard to do the work on the

lines that other people do.

I still very much like the idea of not taking responsibility or too

much responsiblity for that which is not changeable, and do what we

can do. But we live in an interdependant world, and like it or not we

are part of a bigger reality that is more than our own thoughts and

experiences.

It takes a bit more than 'i'll do my bit and let it be' attitude to

heal the world - whether it is our own personal lives or any social

problem. I don't know how to explain it more than that, but what i am

looking for is probably a more compassionate, understanding

relationship to that which is not changeable.

My best wishes to you all,

M. "

LOL M,

You made up a bunch of philosophies and then disagreed with them...These 4

questions do not indicate any philosophy except perhaps that there is value is

being aware of what is and even thats actually something that I just made

up...You might want to check out if any of your thinking really accurately gives

you a peaceful reason to not ask the 4 questions...I don't know who espouses the

" I'll do my bit and let it be " attitude that you describe but I don't see it

associated with the Work in the least..If anything asking the 4 questions,

seeing the turn around, and then acting on the turn-around, would make you more

'involved', not less involved...Check it out if you're at all still curious...I

will say you may be accurrately observing an attitude that some people do in

fact associate with the 4 questions...Or perhaps you are simply concerned about

becoming confused in this way yourself...But just because Baptist Christians

become judgmental sometimes for example that doesn't mean Christianity is itself

the practice of being judgmental..And the Work isn't even a Religion, unless I

make it one..It is merely simple language (4 questions) associated with turning

the mind from a conclusion to a question, an inquiry...We don't become less

effective, less involved when we do this (in my experience) we become more so...

[Guest guest]

hi- perhaps what i said was misinterpreted as - i'll do my bit and that's all i

can do- i regard to sandy and her abusive father- i believe she saw in doing the

work that she played her part in that- and that all she can do now- (as her

father refuses to accept her calls etc) is to apologize for her part in it all-

she can't force him to do or be anything other than he is in the moment. in

hearing that ending part from katie, i realized that i can let go of thinking

(in regard to my niece) that there is something else i can do- i could apologize

better, more often, call her, try to get her to see me, etc etc. mend it

better.... when in truth- i did my part- and i can let it go- or not- keep

agonizing or not.....and i can love her anyway- just as sandy so beautifully

came to see she can and does love her father with compassion for who he is and

understanding him and their relationship-despite the abuse or embracing the

abuse- i can't think of anything more compassionate and understanding and loving

than her work and that discovery......and forgive me sandy if i have not stated

something correctly - i thought it was magnificent....

Re: Re: in NYC

" Dear all, i have been privileged to be listening to all your

experiences so far, and i have tried real hard to do the work on the

lines that other people do.

I still very much like the idea of not taking responsibility or too

much responsiblity for that which is not changeable, and do what we

can do. But we live in an interdependant world, and like it or not we

are part of a bigger reality that is more than our own thoughts and

experiences.

It takes a bit more than 'i'll do my bit and let it be' attitude to

heal the world - whether it is our own personal lives or any social

problem. I don't know how to explain it more than that, but what i am

looking for is probably a more compassionate, understanding

relationship to that which is not changeable.

My best wishes to you all,

M. "

LOL M,

You made up a bunch of philosophies and then disagreed with them...These 4

questions do not indicate any philosophy except perhaps that there is value is

being aware of what is and even thats actually something that I just made

up...You might want to check out if any of your thinking really accurately gives

you a peaceful reason to not ask the 4 questions...I don't know who espouses the

" I'll do my bit and let it be " attitude that you describe but I don't see it

associated with the Work in the least..If anything asking the 4 questions,

seeing the turn around, and then acting on the turn-around, would make you more

'involved', not less involved...Check it out if you're at all still curious...I

will say you may be accurrately observing an attitude that some people do in

fact associate with the 4 questions...Or perhaps you are simply concerned about

becoming confused in this way yourself...But just because Baptist Christians

become judgmental sometimes for example tha! t doesn't mean Christianity is

itself the practice of being judgmental..And the Work isn't even a Religion,

unless I make it one..It is merely simple language (4 questions) associated with

turning the mind from a conclusion to a question, an inquiry...We don't become

less effective, less involved when we do this (in my experience) we become more

so...

[Guest guest]

I am really confused now. Smile. I thought the work was for assisting us in

discovering our OWN truths. I didn't see that it is about creating a new

philosophy of life, i.e., a new story of our lives, but rather about

investigating the stories we have always had.

I also hear people say from time to time, " meant this, said that,

etc. " ....I thought the work was about US, as opposed to being about

....perhaps I simply misunderstand people.

Re: Re: in NYC

" Dear all, i have been privileged to be listening to all your

experiences so far, and i have tried real hard to do the work on the

lines that other people do.

I still very much like the idea of not taking responsibility or too

much responsiblity for that which is not changeable, and do what we

can do. But we live in an interdependant world, and like it or not we

are part of a bigger reality that is more than our own thoughts and

experiences.

It takes a bit more than 'i'll do my bit and let it be' attitude to

heal the world - whether it is our own personal lives or any social

problem. I don't know how to explain it more than that, but what i am

looking for is probably a more compassionate, understanding

relationship to that which is not changeable.

My best wishes to you all,

M. "

LOL M,

You made up a bunch of philosophies and then disagreed with them...These 4

questions do not indicate any philosophy except perhaps that there is value is

being aware of what is and even thats actually something that I just made

up...You might want to check out if any of your thinking really accurately gives

you a peaceful reason to not ask the 4 questions...I don't know who espouses the

" I'll do my bit and let it be " attitude that you describe but I don't see it

associated with the Work in the least..If anything asking the 4 questions,

seeing the turn around, and then acting on the turn-around, would make you more

'involved', not less involved...Check it out if you're at all still curious...I

will say you may be accurrately observing an attitude that some people do in

fact associate with the 4 questions...Or perhaps you are simply concerned about

becoming confused in this way yourself...But just because Baptist Christians

become judgmental sometimes for example tha! t doesn't mean Christianity is

itself the practice of being judgmental..And the Work isn't even a Religion,

unless I make it one..It is merely simple language (4 questions) associated with

turning the mind from a conclusion to a question, an inquiry...We don't become

less effective, less involved when we do this (in my experience) we become more

so...

[Guest guest]

exactly so

Re: Re: in NYC

" Dear all, i have been privileged to be listening to all your

experiences so far, and i have tried real hard to do the work on the

lines that other people do.

I still very much like the idea of not taking responsibility or too

much responsiblity for that which is not changeable, and do what we

can do. But we live in an interdependant world, and like it or not we

are part of a bigger reality that is more than our own thoughts and

experiences.

It takes a bit more than 'i'll do my bit and let it be' attitude to

heal the world - whether it is our own personal lives or any social

problem. I don't know how to explain it more than that, but what i am

looking for is probably a more compassionate, understanding

relationship to that which is not changeable.

My best wishes to you all,

M. "

LOL M,

You made up a bunch of philosophies and then disagreed with them...These 4

questions do not indicate any philosophy except perhaps that there is value is

being aware of what is and even thats actually something that I just made

up...You might want to check out if any of your thinking really accurately gives

you a peaceful reason to not ask the 4 questions...I don't know who espouses the

" I'll do my bit and let it be " attitude that you describe but I don't see it

associated with the Work in the least..If anything asking the 4 questions,

seeing the turn around, and then acting on the turn-around, would make you more

'involved', not less involved...Check it out if you're at all still curious...I

will say you may be accurrately observing an attitude that some people do in

fact associate with the 4 questions...Or perhaps you are simply concerned about

becoming confused in this way yourself...But just because Baptist Christians

become judgmental someti! mes for example tha! t doesn't mean Christianity is

itself the practice of being judgmental..And the Work isn't even a Religion,

unless I make it one..It is merely simple language (4 questions) associated with

turning the mind from a conclusion to a question, an inquiry...We don't become

less effective, less involved when we do this (in my experience) we become more

so...

[Guest guest]

Laurie, I think you did an incredible job of summing it all up. Thank

you. What I can add to the discussion is that by seeing my role and

responsibility in the state of my father's and my relationship, I can

vizualize my father being that innocent little boy, who was just like

me. As he was human and made mistakes, so did I. I can now regard

myself as human and give up the expectation that everyone, myself

included, must be perfect in my world. This does not excuse the

abuse or condone it in anyway.....but for years the rage I had for my

father has consumed me and has interferred with every relationship I

have. I now have more compassion and understanding, not only for my

father, but for myself. What a great gift to give myself.

Love, Sandy

> hi- perhaps what i said was misinterpreted as - i'll do my bit and

that's all i can do- i regard to sandy and her abusive father- i

believe she saw in doing the work that she played her part in that-

and that all she can do now- (as her father refuses to accept her

calls etc) is to apologize for her part in it all- she can't force

him to do or be anything other than he is in the moment. in hearing

that ending part from katie, i realized that i can let go of thinking

(in regard to my niece) that there is something else i can do- i

could apologize better, more often, call her, try to get her to see

me, etc etc. mend it better.... when in truth- i did my part- and i

can let it go- or not- keep agonizing or not.....and i can love her

anyway- just as sandy so beautifully came to see she can and does

love her father with compassion for who he is and understanding him

and their relationship-despite the abuse or embracing the abuse- i

can't think of anything more compassionate and understanding and

loving than her work and that discovery......and forgive me sandy if

i have not stated something correctly - i thought it was

magnificent....

> Re: Re: in NYC

>

>

> " Dear all, i have been privileged to be listening to all your

> experiences so far, and i have tried real hard to do the work on

the

> lines that other people do.

>

> I still very much like the idea of not taking responsibility or

too

> much responsiblity for that which is not changeable, and do what

we

> can do. But we live in an interdependant world, and like it or

not we

> are part of a bigger reality that is more than our own thoughts

and

> experiences.

>

> It takes a bit more than 'i'll do my bit and let it be' attitude

to

> heal the world - whether it is our own personal lives or any

social

> problem. I don't know how to explain it more than that, but what

i am

> looking for is probably a more compassionate, understanding

> relationship to that which is not changeable.

>

> My best wishes to you all,

>

> M. "

>

> LOL M,

> You made up a bunch of philosophies and then disagreed with

them...These 4 questions do not indicate any philosophy except

perhaps that there is value is being aware of what is and even thats

actually something that I just made up...You might want to check out

if any of your thinking really accurately gives you a peaceful reason

to not ask the 4 questions...I don't know who espouses the " I'll do

my bit and let it be " attitude that you describe but I don't see it

associated with the Work in the least..If anything asking the 4

questions, seeing the turn around, and then acting on the turn-

around, would make you more 'involved', not less involved...Check it

out if you're at all still curious...I will say you may be

accurrately observing an attitude that some people do in fact

associate with the 4 questions...Or perhaps you are simply concerned

about becoming confused in this way yourself...But just because

Baptist Christians become judgmental sometimes for example tha! t

doesn't mean Christianity is itself the practice of being

judgmental..And the Work isn't even a Religion, unless I make it

one..It is merely simple language (4 questions) associated with

turning the mind from a conclusion to a question, an inquiry...We

don't become less effective, less involved when we do this (in my

experience) we become more so...

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi...

I'm new to LWI and have a question - if anyone has any thoughts, please

write! this is what I'm struggling with. I completely see and totally

understand how, when I visualize myself without a specific thought that

causes stress, I could be a happy, peaceful person. But I'm having trouble

releasing my thoughts of how I want reality to be. How does one want

something that one doesn't want? would you eventually want it if you do the

work enough?

thanks to all,

mary

Reply-To: Loving-what-is

Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 22:47:05 -0000

To: Loving-what-is

Subject: Re: in NYC

Laurie, I think you did an incredible job of summing it all up. Thank

you. What I can add to the discussion is that by seeing my role and

responsibility in the state of my father's and my relationship, I can

vizualize my father being that innocent little boy, who was just like

me. As he was human and made mistakes, so did I. I can now regard

myself as human and give up the expectation that everyone, myself

included, must be perfect in my world. This does not excuse the

abuse or condone it in anyway.....but for years the rage I had for my

father has consumed me and has interferred with every relationship I

have. I now have more compassion and understanding, not only for my

father, but for myself. What a great gift to give myself.

Love, Sandy

> hi- perhaps what i said was misinterpreted as - i'll do my bit and

that's all i can do- i regard to sandy and her abusive father- i

believe she saw in doing the work that she played her part in that-

and that all she can do now- (as her father refuses to accept her

calls etc) is to apologize for her part in it all- she can't force

him to do or be anything other than he is in the moment. in hearing

that ending part from katie, i realized that i can let go of thinking

(in regard to my niece) that there is something else i can do- i

could apologize better, more often, call her, try to get her to see

me, etc etc. mend it better.... when in truth- i did my part- and i

can let it go- or not- keep agonizing or not.....and i can love her

anyway- just as sandy so beautifully came to see she can and does

love her father with compassion for who he is and understanding him

and their relationship-despite the abuse or embracing the abuse- i

can't think of anything more compassionate and understanding and

loving than her work and that discovery......and forgive me sandy if

i have not stated something correctly - i thought it was

magnificent....

> Re: Re: in NYC

>

>

> " Dear all, i have been privileged to be listening to all your

> experiences so far, and i have tried real hard to do the work on

the

> lines that other people do.

>

> I still very much like the idea of not taking responsibility or

too

> much responsiblity for that which is not changeable, and do what

we

> can do. But we live in an interdependant world, and like it or

not we

> are part of a bigger reality that is more than our own thoughts

and

> experiences.

>

> It takes a bit more than 'i'll do my bit and let it be' attitude

to

> heal the world - whether it is our own personal lives or any

social

> problem. I don't know how to explain it more than that, but what

i am

> looking for is probably a more compassionate, understanding

> relationship to that which is not changeable.

>

> My best wishes to you all,

>

> M. "

>

> LOL M,

> You made up a bunch of philosophies and then disagreed with

them...These 4 questions do not indicate any philosophy except

perhaps that there is value is being aware of what is and even thats

actually something that I just made up...You might want to check out

if any of your thinking really accurately gives you a peaceful reason

to not ask the 4 questions...I don't know who espouses the " I'll do

my bit and let it be " attitude that you describe but I don't see it

associated with the Work in the least..If anything asking the 4

questions, seeing the turn around, and then acting on the turn-

around, would make you more 'involved', not less involved...Check it

out if you're at all still curious...I will say you may be

accurrately observing an attitude that some people do in fact

associate with the 4 questions...Or perhaps you are simply concerned

about becoming confused in this way yourself...But just because

Baptist Christians become judgmental sometimes for example tha! t

doesn't mean Christianity is itself the practice of being

judgmental..And the Work isn't even a Religion, unless I make it

one..It is merely simple language (4 questions) associated with

turning the mind from a conclusion to a question, an inquiry...We

don't become less effective, less involved when we do this (in my

experience) we become more so...

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

yikes I am confused!!! I have a total mind block here.

If you could please explain what you mean and forgive my confusion I'd be

grateful... when you say " doing the Work might bring you to see that you

don't want what you don't want " what does that mean???-mary

From: Onewoman927@...

Reply-To: Loving-what-is

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 00:02:05 EDT

To: Loving-what-is

Subject: Re: Re: in NYC

Dear ,

It's neat to see what can happen when we " write it down. " [Judge your

neighbor, write it down, ask four questions, turn it around. BK]

You wrote two things: 1)you completely see you could be a happy,

peaceful person without a specific thought that causes stress, and 2) you're

having trouble releasing your thoughts of how you want reality to be. If

both

statements are true, you might be having trouble being happy and peaceful.

Welcome to the human race!

As far as wanting something that one doesn't want, and eventually

wanting it if you do the Work enough, well... doing the Work might bring you

to see that you don't want what you don't want. Then you are in agreement

with reality (i.e. loving what is), and you might not have as much trouble

being happy and peaceful.

I don't intend to make jokes. LWI often leads to LOL! You are right

on. Just keep questioning your statements and answering your questions. It

Works! :-)

Subj: Re: Re: in NYC

Date: 6/24/2002 6:36:12 PM Central Standard Time

From: <A HREF= " mailto:marycgould@... " >marycgould@...</A>

Reply-to: <A

HREF= " mailto:Loving-what-is " >Loving-what-is <

/A>

To: <A

HREF= " mailto:Loving-what-is " >Loving-what-is <

/A>

Sent from the Internet (Details)

Hi...

I'm new to LWI and have a question - if anyone has any thoughts, please

write! this is what I'm struggling with. I completely see and totally

understand how, when I visualize myself without a specific thought that

causes stress, I could be a happy, peaceful person. But I'm having trouble

releasing my thoughts of how I want reality to be. How does one want

something that one doesn't want? would you eventually want it if you do the

work enough?

thanks to all,

mary

___________________________________

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

What I thought was economic clarity caused you confusion. I'm sorry

and of course I forgive you! Late night typing sometimes jams my words.

Your original post asked, << How does one want something that one

doesn't want? would you eventually want it if you do the work enough? >>

That wording implied to me that you think you should be wanting

something when you " know " you don't. And that you should work to want

something.

I'll give you an example. Let me know if this helps clear it up. Let's

say a friend hurts your feelings. And let's say you've established that you

do not want this situation.

You ask yourself if it is true (or if both these last two statements

are), how you react when you have these thoughts and who'd you be without

them (as well as a myriad of other sub-questions). Then you apply the

turnarounds. In other words, you do The Work on these beliefs.

When I wrote to you, <<doing the Work might bring you to see that you

don't want what you don't want, et al>> I was hinting to you that when you

think you " should " want something and then discover that that is not true,

well...see? You don't want it anymore. Get it? It goes beyond accepting

yourself. It goes to seeing reality, which leads to, what did I say --

Laughing Out Loud!

(Am I the only one out here who thinks this is funny?)

The business about being " happy and peaceful " is more than just

logical mumbo-jumbo. Basically, who would ever want to work at anything that

is going to end up making something what it isn't?

, just because I find it funny, does not mean I am making fun of

YOU! Please let me know if this reply helps you. Thanks!

Subj: Re: Re: in NYC

Date: 6/25/2002 2:41:19 PM Central Standard Time

From: <A HREF= " mailto:marycgould@... " >marycgould@...</A>

Reply-to: <A

HREF= " mailto:Loving-what-is " >Loving-what-is </A>

To: <A

HREF= " mailto:Loving-what-is " >Loving-what-is </A>

Sent from the Internet (Details)

yikes I am confused!!! I have a total mind block here.

If you could please explain what you mean and forgive my confusion I'd be

grateful... when you say " doing the Work might bring you to see that you

don't want what you don't want " what does that mean???-mary

From: Onewoman927@...

Reply-To: Loving-what-is

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 00:02:05 EDT

To: Loving-what-is

Subject: Re: Re: in NYC

Dear ,

It's neat to see what can happen when we " write it down. " [Judge your

neighbor, write it down, ask four questions, turn it around. BK]

You wrote two things: 1)you completely see you could be a happy,

peaceful person without a specific thought that causes stress, and 2) you're

having trouble releasing your thoughts of how you want reality to be. If

both statements are true, you might be having trouble being happy and

peaceful.

Welcome to the human race!

As far as wanting something that one doesn't want, and eventually

wanting it if you do the Work enough, well... doing the Work might bring you

to see that you don't want what you don't want. Then you are in agreement

with reality (i.e. loving what is), and you might not have as much trouble

being happy and peaceful.

I don't intend to make jokes. LWI often leads to LOL! You are right

on. Just keep questioning your statements and answering your questions. It

Works! :-)

Subj: Re: Re: in NYC

Date: 6/24/2002 6:36:12 PM Central Standard Time

From: <A HREF= " mailto:marycgould@... " >marycgould@...</A>

Reply-to: HREF= " mailto:Loving-what-is " >

Loving-what-is <

/A>

To: HREF= " mailto:Loving-what-is " >

Loving-what-is <

/A>

Sent from the Internet (Details)

Hi...

I'm new to LWI and have a question - if anyone has any thoughts, please

write! this is what I'm struggling with. I completely see and totally

understand how, when I visualize myself without a specific thought that

causes stress, I could be a happy, peaceful person. But I'm having trouble

releasing my thoughts of how I want reality to be. How does one want

something that one doesn't want? would you eventually want it if you do the

work enough?

thanks to all,

mary

[Guest guest]

To add to Onewoman's reply.....since I have had the same confusion as ,

I will attempt to add the answer, one that helped me to find my way out of

the confusion. Maybe it will help.

The work is about finding the truth of yourself. The work is about NOT

arguing with what is (reality). As KT says, when we argue with reality we

lose, but only 100% of the time. It's not about making oneself want

something that we don't like or want - ever. It's about seeing it for what

it is. Merely find out why you were triggered to not want or like something

that happened to you. You don't have to like it or ever want it...but USE

it only to discover yourself and find your/the truth. As far as the (the

wanting part) turnaround, welcome further discomforts only so that you can

go back to get to the root of YOUR discomfort in that situation, eventually

leading to seeing your belief system based on " shoulds " and " shouldn'ts " .

Laurie O.

-- Re: Re: in NYC

Dear ,

What I thought was economic clarity caused you confusion. I'm sorry

and of course I forgive you! Late night typing sometimes jams my words.

Your original post asked, << How does one want something that one

doesn't want? would you eventually want it if you do the work enough? >>

That wording implied to me that you think you should be wanting

something when you " know " you don't. And that you should work to want

something.

[Guest guest]

Dear...I don't know your name! Dear Onewoman927...

thanks so much for clarifying that for me! I really had a hard time

understanding the concept, it was as if I had to really strain my brain to

finally get it, but I did get it after your explanation. Thanks so much. I

hope you don't mind me asking you these questions, if you do - just let me

know and I'll stop. But I must ask...what if my answers to the first 2

questions <<Let's

say a friend hurts your feelings. And let's say you've established that you

do not want this situation. >> are definitively yes??!! darn it yes I'm hurt

and yes I hate the situation. How does it make me feel? horrible. Who would

I be without those thoughts? Happy. Turn it around... " I hurt my

feelings...and I do want the situation. " ....... right? am I doing this

right? There's so much... I'm not quite sure about but I know I want to do

it...

From: Onewoman927@...

Reply-To: Loving-what-is

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 23:13:53 EDT

To: Loving-what-is

Subject: Re: Re: in NYC

Dear ,

What I thought was economic clarity caused you confusion. I'm sorry

and of course I forgive you! Late night typing sometimes jams my words.

Your original post asked, << How does one want something that one

doesn't want? would you eventually want it if you do the work enough? >>

That wording implied to me that you think you should be wanting

something when you " know " you don't. And that you should work to want

something.

I'll give you an example. Let me know if this helps clear it up. Let's

say a friend hurts your feelings. And let's say you've established that you

do not want this situation.

You ask yourself if it is true (or if both these last two statements

are), how you react when you have these thoughts and who'd you be without

them (as well as a myriad of other sub-questions). Then you apply the

turnarounds. In other words, you do The Work on these beliefs.

When I wrote to you, <<doing the Work might bring you to see that you

don't want what you don't want, et al>> I was hinting to you that when you

think you " should " want something and then discover that that is not true,

well...see? You don't want it anymore. Get it? It goes beyond accepting

yourself. It goes to seeing reality, which leads to, what did I say --

Laughing Out Loud!

(Am I the only one out here who thinks this is funny?)

The business about being " happy and peaceful " is more than just

logical mumbo-jumbo. Basically, who would ever want to work at anything that

is going to end up making something what it isn't?

, just because I find it funny, does not mean I am making fun of

YOU! Please let me know if this reply helps you. Thanks!

Subj: Re: Re: in NYC

Date: 6/25/2002 2:41:19 PM Central Standard Time

From: <A HREF= " mailto:marycgould@... " >marycgould@...</A>

Reply-to: <A

HREF= " mailto:Loving-what-is " >Loving-what-is <

/A>

To: <A

HREF= " mailto:Loving-what-is " >Loving-what-is <

/A>

Sent from the Internet (Details)

yikes I am confused!!! I have a total mind block here.

If you could please explain what you mean and forgive my confusion I'd be

grateful... when you say " doing the Work might bring you to see that you

don't want what you don't want " what does that mean???-mary

From: Onewoman927@...

Reply-To: Loving-what-is

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 00:02:05 EDT

To: Loving-what-is

Subject: Re: Re: in NYC

Dear ,

It's neat to see what can happen when we " write it down. " [Judge your

neighbor, write it down, ask four questions, turn it around. BK]

You wrote two things: 1)you completely see you could be a happy,

peaceful person without a specific thought that causes stress, and 2) you're

having trouble releasing your thoughts of how you want reality to be. If

both statements are true, you might be having trouble being happy and

peaceful.

Welcome to the human race!

As far as wanting something that one doesn't want, and eventually

wanting it if you do the Work enough, well... doing the Work might bring you

to see that you don't want what you don't want. Then you are in agreement

with reality (i.e. loving what is), and you might not have as much trouble

being happy and peaceful.

I don't intend to make jokes. LWI often leads to LOL! You are right

on. Just keep questioning your statements and answering your questions. It

Works! :-)

Subj: Re: Re: in NYC

Date: 6/24/2002 6:36:12 PM Central Standard Time

From: <A HREF= " mailto:marycgould@... " >marycgould@...</A>

Reply-to: HREF= " mailto:Loving-what-is " >

Loving-what-is <

/A>

To: HREF= " mailto:Loving-what-is " >

Loving-what-is <

/A>

Sent from the Internet (Details)

Hi...

I'm new to LWI and have a question - if anyone has any thoughts, please

write! this is what I'm struggling with. I completely see and totally

understand how, when I visualize myself without a specific thought that

causes stress, I could be a happy, peaceful person. But I'm having trouble

releasing my thoughts of how I want reality to be. How does one want

something that one doesn't want? would you eventually want it if you do the

work enough?

thanks to all,

mary

[Guest guest]

Gould wrote:

> Let's say a friend hurts your feelings. And let's say you've

> established that you do not want this situation. are definitively

> yes??!! darn it yes I'm hurt and yes I hate the situation. How

> does it make me feel? horrible. Who would I be without those

> thoughts? Happy. Turn it around... " I hurt my feelings...and I do

> want the situation. " ....... right? am I doing this right?

You have the general idea, . But I suggest you go a bit deeper.

Explore the idea that someone can hurt your feelings. It isn't what

someone else does or says that hurts your feelings, but rather your

thoughts about it that hurts your feelings. So in that way you hurt

your own feelings.

Peace and love,

Warren

[Guest guest]

yes I see...thank you Warren!

mary

Reply-To: Loving-what-is

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 09:55:52 -0000

To: Loving-what-is

Subject: Re: in NYC

Gould wrote:

> Let's say a friend hurts your feelings. And let's say you've

> established that you do not want this situation. are definitively

> yes??!! darn it yes I'm hurt and yes I hate the situation. How

> does it make me feel? horrible. Who would I be without those

> thoughts? Happy. Turn it around... " I hurt my feelings...and I do

> want the situation. " ....... right? am I doing this right?

You have the general idea, . But I suggest you go a bit deeper.

Explore the idea that someone can hurt your feelings. It isn't what

someone else does or says that hurts your feelings, but rather your

thoughts about it that hurts your feelings. So in that way you hurt

your own feelings.

Peace and love,

Warren

[Guest guest]

so helpful! thank you Laurie.

mary

Reply-To: Loving-what-is

Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:30:28 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)

To: Loving-what-is

Subject: Re: Re: in NYC

To add to Onewoman's reply.....since I have had the same confusion as ,

I will attempt to add the answer, one that helped me to find my way out of

the confusion. Maybe it will help.

The work is about finding the truth of yourself. The work is about NOT

arguing with what is (reality). As KT says, when we argue with reality we

lose, but only 100% of the time. It's not about making oneself want

something that we don't like or want - ever. It's about seeing it for what

it is. Merely find out why you were triggered to not want or like something

that happened to you. You don't have to like it or ever want it...but USE

it only to discover yourself and find your/the truth. As far as the (the

wanting part) turnaround, welcome further discomforts only so that you can

go back to get to the root of YOUR discomfort in that situation, eventually

leading to seeing your belief system based on " shoulds " and " shouldn'ts " .

Laurie O.

-- Re: Re: in NYC

Dear ,

What I thought was economic clarity caused you confusion. I'm sorry

and of course I forgive you! Late night typing sometimes jams my words.

Your original post asked, << How does one want something that one

doesn't want? would you eventually want it if you do the work enough? >>

That wording implied to me that you think you should be wanting

something when you " know " you don't. And that you should work to want

something.

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

I can't remember why our correspondence has the subject line above,

but oh well. Don't stop, I like your questions. You may write me directly,

but I will be out of town (and away from this message board) June 28 - July

9. I promise to reply when I return. Also, I like being called Onewoman927.

It's fun for now.

So far you've done your Work. You ask me if you're doing in right, but

I am no expert. I can see it looks like you've filled in the blanks

" correctly. " Am I safe to assume you don't enjoy feeling " horrible " and do

enjoy being " happy? "

If yes, then ask yourself if your two turnarounds are equally true.

1.) Do you/Have you been hurting your own feelings? Look at it from all

angles. Does your thinking help to hurt your feelings? 2.) Can you see any

value to wanting the situation? It's not fair to give you my answers, but

here's one anyway. If you didn't have this situation and/or others like it,

perhaps you wouldn't have gotten around to investigating your thinking and

noticing how it's been up to the nasty habit of hurting your own feelings.

I don't know about you, but this process makes me feel pretty humble.

Then I chuckle at myself and my heart feels lighter.

Because I'm supposed to be packing for an early flight, I'd better cut

to the chase. At the " end " of your Work, you may notice that it's true that

you no longer want what you don't have, and now want what you've got. Sounds

like a pretty " happy " situation to me. I guess that's why she called the

book, Loving What Is!

Subj: Re: Re: in NYC

Date: 6/27/2002 1:13:24 AM Central Standard Time

From: <A HREF= " mailto:marycgould@... " >marycgould@...</A>

Reply-to: <A

HREF= " mailto:Loving-what-is " >Loving-what-is </A>

To: <A

HREF= " mailto:Loving-what-is " >Loving-what-is </A>

Sent from the Internet (Details)

Dear...I don't know your name! Dear Onewoman927...

thanks so much for clarifying that for me! I really had a hard time

understanding the concept, it was as if I had to really strain my brain to

finally get it, but I did get it after your explanation. Thanks so much. I

hope you don't mind me asking you these questions, if you do - just let me

know and I'll stop. But I must ask...what if my answers to the first 2

questions <<Let's

say a friend hurts your feelings. And let's say you've established that you

do not want this situation. >> are definitively yes??!! darn it yes I'm hurt

and yes I hate the situation. How does it make me feel? horrible. Who would

I be without those thoughts? Happy. Turn it around... " I hurt my

feelings...and I do want the situation. " ....... right? am I doing this

right? There's so much... I'm not quite sure about but I know I want to do

it...

From: Onewoman927@...

Reply-To: Loving-what-is

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 23:13:53 EDT

To: Loving-what-is

Subject: Re: Re: in NYC

Dear ,

What I thought was economic clarity caused you confusion. I'm sorry

and of course I forgive you! Late night typing sometimes jams my words.

Your original post asked, << How does one want something that one

doesn't want? would you eventually want it if you do the work enough? >>

That wording implied to me that you think you should be wanting

something when you " know " you don't. And that you should work to want

something.

I'll give you an example. Let me know if this helps clear it up. Let's

say a friend hurts your feelings. And let's say you've established that you

do not want this situation.

You ask yourself if it is true (or if both these last two statements

are), how you react when you have these thoughts and who'd you be without

them (as well as a myriad of other sub-questions). Then you apply the

turnarounds. In other words, you do The Work on these beliefs.

When I wrote to you, <<doing the Work might bring you to see that you

don't want what you don't want, et al>> I was hinting to you that when you

think you " should " want something and then discover that that is not true,

well...see? You don't want it anymore. Get it? It goes beyond accepting

yourself. It goes to seeing reality, which leads to, what did I say --

Laughing Out Loud!

(Am I the only one out here who thinks this is funny?)

The business about being " happy and peaceful " is more than just

logical mumbo-jumbo. Basically, who would ever want to work at anything that

is going to end up making something what it isn't?

, just because I find it funny, does not mean I am making fun of

YOU! Please let me know if this reply helps you. Thanks!

Subj: Re: Re: in NYC

Date: 6/25/2002 2:41:19 PM Central Standard Time

From: <A HREF= " mailto:marycgould@... " >marycgould@...</A>

Reply-to: HREF= " mailto:Loving-what-is " >

Loving-what-is <

/A>

To: HREF= " mailto:Loving-what-is " >

Loving-what-is <

/A>

Sent from the Internet (Details)

yikes I am confused!!! I have a total mind block here.

If you could please explain what you mean and forgive my confusion I'd be

grateful... when you say " doing the Work might bring you to see that you

don't want what you don't want " what does that mean???-mary

From: Onewoman927@...

Reply-To: Loving-what-is

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 00:02:05 EDT

To: Loving-what-is

Subject: Re: Re: in NYC

Dear ,

It's neat to see what can happen when we " write it down. " [Judge your

neighbor, write it down, ask four questions, turn it around. BK]

You wrote two things: 1)you completely see you could be a happy,

peaceful person without a specific thought that causes stress, and 2) you're

having trouble releasing your thoughts of how you want reality to be. If

both statements are true, you might be having trouble being happy and

peaceful.

Welcome to the human race!

As far as wanting something that one doesn't want, and eventually

wanting it if you do the Work enough, well... doing the Work might bring you

to see that you don't want what you don't want. Then you are in agreement

with reality (i.e. loving what is), and you might not have as much trouble

being happy and peaceful.

I don't intend to make jokes. LWI often leads to LOL! You are right

on. Just keep questioning your statements and answering your questions. It

Works! :-)

Subj: Re: Re: in NYC

Date: 6/24/2002 6:36:12 PM Central Standard Time

From: <A HREF= " mailto:marycgould@... " >marycgould@...</A>

Reply-to: HREF= " mailto:Loving-what-is " >

Loving-what-is <

/A>

To: HREF= " mailto:Loving-what-is " >

Loving-what-is <

/A>

Sent from the Internet (Details)

Hi...

I'm new to LWI and have a question - if anyone has any thoughts, please

write! this is what I'm struggling with. I completely see and totally

understand how, when I visualize myself without a specific thought that

causes stress, I could be a happy, peaceful person. But I'm having trouble

releasing my thoughts of how I want reality to be. How does one want

something that one doesn't want? would you eventually want it if you do the

work enough?

thanks to all,

mary

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

I'm not supposed to still be up this late! Please excuse my disjointed

sentences. Check the LWI book on God's business. I recall she has a dialogue

on the terrorist attacks. Also, on the website, I think there is a similar

one featured. Someone ran a several page download (or scan) of some

conversations with BK on this message board the other day. There was

something in it about throwing a baby up in the air and having a soldier

shoot at it. This may help inform your scope. I'm sorry I must get myself to

bed, or I would continue...

______________________________________

[Guest guest]

Laurie,

I'm still working on this and would like to ask a question. You said...

<<Merely find out why you were triggered to not want or like something that

happened to you. You don't have to like it or ever want it...but USE it

only to discover yourself and find your/the truth.>>

The way I feel is, for example: hypothetically: let's say reality is: my

husband, who I love very much & whose baby I'm pregnant with, died on 9/11.

I wouldn't need to find out why I was triggered to not want or like

this...wouldn't that be painfully obvious? so how would I USE my husband

dying to discover myself and find my/the truth? thank you so much for

listening, I'm trying hard to get this.

gratefully,

mary

Reply-To: Loving-what-is

Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:30:28 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)

To: Loving-what-is

Subject: Re: Re: in NYC

[Guest guest]

,

Good question. To answer your question, it would be obvious when someone

close to you dies, you see the reality of the situation. You aren't telling

yourself lies from it. Simply put, they are gone. Grieve. It is clear to

you what the story is. It's when you hang on and can't move forward because

of the story, and you don't like this story is when you do the work. This

doesn't mean that if you are still sad over this loss in a year that you do

the work. Do the work when you feel that the sadness is not a story you

want anymore. The work is merely a tool to help you find a way out when you

are ready. Use the work-tool to discover your truth and yourself.

Briefly, pain is your cue that your thinking/story is not true, not reality

in the present. Do you want to keep the story or get rid of it? You choose.

No right or wrong answer. That too is what is.

Hope this helps some. If it's not clear, let me know. I don't mind

answering any questions.

Love, Laurie O.

-- Re: Re: in NYC

[Guest guest]

When I did the Work on my sister's murder, I eventually came to a

place of peace where I could see the thought " my sister was murdered "

as only a thought, still tormenting me nine years after the event.

In this case, as says, reality is kinder than my thoughts.

Also, before I got to that point of peace, I benefited from doing the

Work, as people on-line suggested, on thoughts, such as: " I should

not be angry about my sister's murder. I should be over my grief by

now. I should not feel homicidal, " etc.

Deb

> Laurie,

>

> I'm still working on this and would like to ask a question. You

said...

> <<Merely find out why you were triggered to not want or like

something that

> happened to you. You don't have to like it or ever want it...but

USE it

> only to discover yourself and find your/the truth.>>

>

> The way I feel is, for example: hypothetically: let's say reality

is: my

> husband, who I love very much & whose baby I'm pregnant with, died

on 9/11.

> I wouldn't need to find out why I was triggered to not want or like

> this...wouldn't that be painfully obvious? so how would I USE my

husband

> dying to discover myself and find my/the truth? thank you so much

for

> listening, I'm trying hard to get this.

>

> gratefully,

> mary

>

> From: Laurie <laurie40@s...>

> Reply-To: Loving-what-is@y...

> Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:30:28 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)

> To: Loving-what-is@y...

> Subject: Re: Re: in NYC

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

The work is best done against judgments. It's not about what we want

or don't want, but about what we feel should or should not have

happened to us. Write those things down, then try the four questions

and the turnarounds against your statements.

--Warren

[Guest guest]

thanks Warren - I will!

mary

Reply-To: Loving-what-is

Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 00:58:19 -0000

To: Loving-what-is

Subject: Re: in NYC

,

The work is best done against judgments. It's not about what we want

or don't want, but about what we feel should or should not have

happened to us. Write those things down, then try the four questions

and the turnarounds against your statements.

--Warren