Re: AAEM News: TO ALL SMOKERS.

[Guest guest]

>another thought is, that if he has TE and nerve damage, I believe that

>does make haveing allergies to anything a little more than

if te means toxic encephalopathy, dr gray diagnosed him w/that. he will

not do a sinus wash, period, end of story...

sue

>complacated than what most people consider allergy to mean.

>have you taught him how to wash his sinuses ? it really does help with

>both allergies and chemical reactions.

>

>

>>

>

[Guest guest]

>humm, to me that would mean that he has chemical sensitivity and theres

>still things in his environment that are keeping his system aggervated

>to the point that the symptoms all lump together and thereby he wouldn't

well and no matter where we go there is some mold, mold is everywhere,

it's a matter of how much, what kind, etc. but to me this is what

masking is, not knowing for whatever the reason...also, let's not forget

emfs, they may be a factor in many peoples illnesses... sue

>be able to tell if a less mold vs. more mold would help because it's not

>about the mold it's about other toxins.

>just my view.

>

>

>>

>> well, let's take my sample size of one, and limit the discussion to mold

>> only, not other EI factors.

>>

>> My son has been out of our moldy house for 6 months now and feels no

>> better. He doesn't feel worse when he goes in a more moldy place or

>> better in a less moldy place. The mold issues in our house were

>> confirmed by ERMI test I did, Dr. Thrasher toxicology work up as well as

>> the work of an Indoor Air Quality consultant, the molds that show up in

>> the house produce the mycotoxins that show up in the house and in the

>> urine of all 4 family members, and in my son's sputum (rest of us didn't

>> test sputum). ALso, he tests highly highly allergic to molds. So,

>> isn't that masking????

>>

>>

>> Sue V

[Guest guest]

Would transdermal glutathione have a similar effect? Is it a matter of getting

the glutathione in the lungs directly to effect a heaing or can transdermal use

accomplish the same in the long run if it is too harsh for someone's lungs? I've

been using transdermal for a few weeks not specifically for lungs, but have

noticed some days where after use I spit up a bit more phlegm.

I spoke to a doctor about it once who uses it on his patients. He said that it

has helped people and that sometimes he has to adjust the use of it by somehow

combining it with B12? I don't know how that happens. Just passing on some

second hand info.

Sam

I am going back on nebulized Glutithion this week, everything I have read says

it is the only thing found that actually heals the lungs. You start out with a

wea solution, and build up , getting stronger every month. When I was using it

about a year and a half ago, I found my lungs were getting better.

---

[Guest guest]

well, I hate to inform you of this but everyone is carrying around a toxic body

load with them weither they realize it or not.

I may get some toxins from smokeing but there are probably toxins in your body

that are just as bad or worse.

there is not one single person here that does not have a toxic stew in their

body. had it before their exposure, during and afterwards.

get real. and before you go compareing smokers to herion addicts, you might want

to get tested to see what toxins are in your body and how long they may be

there.

I could just as easily say that the toxic soup in your body is causeing you

terriable heatlh effects weither you realize it or not.

and chances are that I'd be right.

>

> I believe the " relaxing effect " or calming sensation they get when they smoke

a cigarette is because they are addicted to nicotine. Their cigarette is like a

fix to a heroin addict. It all makes them feel " better " but is doing great harm

to their bodies regardless of how good they think they feel.

[Guest guest]

thats to bad, I used my squirt bottle to show my 5 year old granddaughter how to

do it. I just showed her that by leaning over the sink and keeping the head

straight, she could hold the squirt bottle her self and just squeeze the bottle

quickly and it would shoot the water up in her nose and it would run right back

out.

I did it with mine to show her than got her to try it that way.

she was a little nervous but once she did it, she had no problem with it, even

when a little ran down her throat.

we just repeated it 3 times that way and I had her blow her nose after each time

to see if anything losened up and came out.

she was trilled at how much better she could breath.

>

> >another thought is, that if he has TE and nerve damage, I believe that

> >does make haveing allergies to anything a little more than

> if te means toxic encephalopathy, dr gray diagnosed him w/that. he will

> not do a sinus wash, period, end of story...

>

> sue

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry Sue, I dont understand your reply.

masking is a term pertaining to chemical intolerance, where it is thought that

exposure to a chemical may somehow cover up the chemical reaction.

I'm guessing that when you say mold, you are meaning both the mold and it's

toxins? yes, TE, and sence he has that, he does have chemical sensitivity, that

means he is intolerant of many chemicals

and he will not get to felling better until his liveing space is free of them or

to a very low level, basicly as free of them as you can get. things that most

report that causes them a reaction are purfume,colone,scented candles,scented

laundry soap,shampoo, scented underarm deorderant,gas,tar,household cleaning

products, carpet fresh, and the list goes on. I'm sorry, I thought someone had

probably explained this to you.

> >>

> >> well, let's take my sample size of one, and limit the discussion to mold

> >> only, not other EI factors.

> >>

> >> My son has been out of our moldy house for 6 months now and feels no

> >> better. He doesn't feel worse when he goes in a more moldy place or

> >> better in a less moldy place. The mold issues in our house were

> >> confirmed by ERMI test I did, Dr. Thrasher toxicology work up as well as

> >> the work of an Indoor Air Quality consultant, the molds that show up in

> >> the house produce the mycotoxins that show up in the house and in the

> >> urine of all 4 family members, and in my son's sputum (rest of us didn't

> >> test sputum). ALso, he tests highly highly allergic to molds. So,

> >> isn't that masking????

> >>

> >>

> >> Sue V

>

[Guest guest]

maybe I don't understand what masking means, i thought masking meant

when you were not aware that a substance was bothering you, that it was

making you sick.

Thanks for the list of chemicals to avoid, we avoid all of those anyway,

except for what is in the air and can't be avoided. sue

>I'm sorry Sue, I dont understand your reply.

>masking is a term pertaining to chemical intolerance, where it is

>thought that exposure to a chemical may somehow cover up the chemical

>reaction.

>I'm guessing that when you say mold, you are meaning both the mold and

>it's toxins? yes, TE, and sence he has that, he does have chemical

>sensitivity, that means he is intolerant of many chemicals

>and he will not get to felling better until his liveing space is free of

>them or to a very low level, basicly as free of them as you can get.

>things that most report that causes them a reaction are

>purfume,colone,scented candles,scented laundry soap,shampoo, scented

>underarm deorderant,gas,tar,household cleaning products, carpet fresh,

[Guest guest]

The same thing happened to me. I had my truck at the shop & was waiting outside.

They sprayed a lot of lubricant to remove a part. I was whacked from it & when

my truck was returned I couldn't be in it. I spent 3 hours airing out the truck

& feeling anesthesized. I grubbed a filterless cigarette from one of the

salesmen and in minutes I was able to drive away.

A woman I met said her non-smoking mother with Alzheimers grubbed a cigarette

from her. She related that afterwards, " It was the first time she made sense in

years. " She then said they were using the patch for Alzheimers.

One thing I know is that nicotine regulates neurotrasmitters & prevents

neuro-degeneration. We have nicotinic acetylcholine receptors and nicotine could

affect synaptic plasticity and theoretically bring about many biological

changes.

> >

> >

> > It's been years since I left my toxic workplace but now I can't stand to

> > be anywhere near smoke at all!!!! Even if they are outside and it drifts

> in

> > through an open door I get a terrible headache. The odor just seems to

> > stick to me like glue until I can get a shower and wash it all off

> including my

> > clothes.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I guess I should ask exactly what is meant by masking? I understood it to be

that when you smoke and you get any enjoyment/relief from it that it would be

masking the real problem that is the actual iritant. I may have missunderstood

what you were trying to say Carl. I know that it should be a given that smoking

is not healthy. But I in no way want to incinuate that any or even some of our

problems that came from being exposed were caused by smoking. I know when I had

a broncoscopy I was told I had gotten bronciactasis due to exposure to fungus,

but when i read the report unless I do not know how to read it (I am sure that

is at least partly true) that it looked like it was saying that it was because

I was a smoker. I have never been able to talk to the doctor again to find out

why the difference in what i was told. I never understood that but I know that

before the exposure i did not have the issues that I did after.

So I am not sure if I lost something in the translation of what the responce

was???

 

    

   

 Freedom is the emancipation from the arbitrary rule of other men :Mortimer

Adler

________________________________

From: " snk1955@... " <snk1955@...>

Sent: Tue, June 1, 2010 11:57:33 AM

Subject: Re: [] Re: AAEM News: TO ALL SMOKERS.

 

Should have been more clear. I think masking does occur. I just meant

masking does not explain the phenomenon as it relates to smoking and ill

health from WDB.

New Paper out of Sweden - I have not read it in its entirety.

_http://www.springerlink.com/content/5p210355w2glxw31/_

(http://www.springerlink.com/content/5p210355w2glxw31/)

Regarding the Masking Index, “maskingâ€

can be described as a hidden cause, and occurs when the

inXicted person does not realize that the symptoms are due

to routine or regular exposure to a substance. It has been

suggested that overlapping symptoms resulting from everyday

exposures to chemicals may mask the individual’s

awareness of their intolerances as well as the intensity of

their responses to environmental exposures ( 1997).

The Masking Index is based on the model of toxicantinduced

loss of tolerance ( 2001a), proposing a toxicological

explanation for the intolerance, and that masking

tends to hide the relationship between an individual’s symptoms

and triggering exposures. Although the authors of the

present paper do not fully share the view of a toxicological

explanation, information about additional chemical exposure,

provided by the Masking Index, may be useful.

Sharon

[Guest guest]

It took me a year and 3 months out of my moldy house to feel cured, at 6 months

I did not feel very much better, keep de-toxing and taking anti-oxidants

>

> well, let's take my sample size of one, and limit the discussion to mold

> only, not other EI factors.

>

> My son has been out of our moldy house for 6 months now and feels no

> better. He doesn't feel worse when he goes in a more moldy place or

> better in a less moldy place. The mold issues in our house were

> confirmed by ERMI test I did, Dr. Thrasher toxicology work up as well as

> the work of an Indoor Air Quality consultant, the molds that show up in

> the house produce the mycotoxins that show up in the house and in the

> urine of all 4 family members, and in my son's sputum (rest of us didn't

> test sputum). ALso, he tests highly highly allergic to molds. So,

> isn't that masking????

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sue, well, thats really kindof in the ball park, I really cant say, that's why I

have a problem with the theory, I've just never had it explain in away I could

really fit it in in with my own thoughts on things. it just aways left me

confused. how can you react badly to one chemical and not to another? not saying

it's not possable,

because I have read enough to know that some chemicals denature other chemicals,

but thats not the conscept of masking. the conscept is of covering up symptoms

and I guess further damage that your getting and I just dont see it.

I also know that some things like coffee and nicotine can change brain chemistry

and by doing that could change a reaction and changeing a reaction in the brain

relates to other body effects.

in that sence, thats still not covering up, thats is changeing .

there could even be a substances that could greatly relieve our pain through

that route.

I remember either by reading or someone explaining of masking to me that I tried

to rap my brain around the thinking that it happens right after you get out of

the WDB and you seem to have a period of time where you dont really show the

chemical sensitivity reaction, but that didn't happen to me. that time for me

was kind of like this, and I also was tested and was highly allergic to molds,

so maybe that played in? but I felt better to a point but not really,

hard to explain but the immediate symptoms of actually being in that environment

were the only thing that changed but I was still suffering from my environment

and I was haveing chemical reaction but I was in a contant reactive state all

the time anyway because I was liveing in the world the same as before without

advoidance of chemicals and my body wasn't calming down, only the immediate

symptoms of actually being in the highly contaminated WDB resided.

and being in a highly reactive state still didn't stop me from reacting more

when I got around, for example, purfume.

the only way I understand just how much different environments can trigger

different effects is because of my own exposures in two different homes and

going from one to live in another and ending up back in the first one for a

short time and haveing the old symptoms with that place come back.

anyway than to here that masking still happens after that phase and after

practicing avoidance, just doesn't make sence to me.

I guess mostly it is because I smoke and it doesn't cause a chemical reaction,

but truely, I've never heard anyone that doesn't smoke actually say that it

causes them a chemical reaction, only that they dont like the smell and it

affects them in other ways, like headacke for example, but smoke can cause

people not exposed in WDB's to have headackes, so can ragweeds, purfumes,ect.

sorry, hope I'm not confuseing you with my rammbleings.

I just dont get the masking thing.

I dont fell theres a cover up of symptoms in any way shape or form, only that

theres possable brain chemistry changes with some things, and or the possability

that one chemical could denature the effect of another chemical.

>

> maybe I don't understand what masking means, i thought masking meant

> when you were not aware that a substance was bothering you, that it was

> making you sick.

>

> Thanks for the list of chemicals to avoid, we avoid all of those anyway,

> except for what is in the air and can't be avoided. sue

>

[Guest guest]

Jeannine: I have experience masking and unmasking and I can tell you first hand

that it is REAL. Dr. Rea also uses the term " toxic adaptation " which to me makes

it easier to understand. Your body " adapts " to the toxins and so does not object

to them and that is what allows one to live in a toxic place. Some are aware of

it, other are not...Then you get away from those toxins and you are suddenly

aware of what was hurting you. Hope this helps. D

>

> well, let's take my sample size of one, and limit the discussion to mold

> only, not other EI factors.

>

> My son has been out of our moldy house for 6 months now and feels no

> better. He doesn't feel worse when he goes in a more moldy place or

> better in a less moldy place. The mold issues in our house were

> confirmed by ERMI test I did, Dr. Thrasher toxicology work up as well as

> the work of an Indoor Air Quality consultant, the molds that show up in

> the house produce the mycotoxins that show up in the house and in the

> urine of all 4 family members, and in my son's sputum (rest of us didn't

> test sputum). ALso, he tests highly highly allergic to molds. So,

> isn't that masking????

>

>

> Sue V

[Guest guest]

Sam: I injected glutathione and B12 and am still using the B12 weekly. I think

that injecting glutathione is to help your body detox, and the nebulizer is to

heal the lungs. Do you notice improvement with the injections?

> I am going back on nebulized Glutithion this week, everything I have read says

it is the only thing found that actually heals the lungs. You start out with a

wea solution, and build up , getting stronger every month. When I was using it

about a year and a half ago, I found my lungs were getting better.

>

> ---

>

[Guest guest]

Masking is not just pertaining to chemical intolerance, it pertains to mold as

well...

>

> I'm sorry Sue, I dont understand your reply.

> masking is a term pertaining to chemical intolerance, where it is thought that

exposure to a chemical may somehow cover up the chemical reaction.

> I'm guessing that when you say mold, you are meaning both the mold and it's

toxins? yes, TE, and sence he has that, he does have chemical sensitivity, that

means he is intolerant of many chemicals

> and he will not get to felling better until his liveing space is free of them

or to a very low level, basicly as free of them as you can get. things that

most report that causes them a reaction are purfume,colone,scented

candles,scented laundry soap,shampoo, scented underarm

deorderant,gas,tar,household cleaning products, carpet fresh, and the list goes

on. I'm sorry, I thought someone had probably explained this to you.

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

thanks for the encouragement! sue

>It took me a year and 3 months out of my moldy house to feel cured, at 6

>months I did not feel very much better, keep de-toxing and taking anti-

>oxidants

>

>

>

>>

>> well, let's take my sample size of one, and limit the discussion to mold

>> only, not other EI factors.

>>

>> My son has been out of our moldy house for 6 months now and feels no

>> better. He doesn't feel worse when he goes in a more moldy place or

>> better in a less moldy place. The mold issues in our house were

>> confirmed by ERMI test I did, Dr. Thrasher toxicology work up as well as

>> the work of an Indoor Air Quality consultant, the molds that show up in

>> the house produce the mycotoxins that show up in the house and in the

>> urine of all 4 family members, and in my son's sputum (rest of us didn't

>> test sputum). ALso, he tests highly highly allergic to molds. So,

>> isn't that masking????

>>

>>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sometimes I wonder if the phenomena called masking has to do with the blood

brain barrier - what it decides to do & what & is capable of doing at any given

moment. If if closes too late it lets toxins in you'd get reduced brain function

& therefore all body functions suffer. If it closes tight it would reduce oxygen

to the brain & will mess up the other body functions too. I'm thinking when

organs are functioning at an all-time low would be the time the blood brain

barrier shuts down the fastest...?

The severity of reactions to exposures (mycotoxin or chemical) are dependent

upon

the length of the exposure

the strength of the toxin

the frequency of exposures - time in-between to " recuperate "

For me a massive exposure is always coupled with organ & spine issues & mild

seizure activity. (BBB closed?) Milder exposures bring minor shakes but always

brain malfunction.(BBB somehere in the miiddle of closed & open?) A VERY minor

exposure may just make me shaky...ie passing someone having a cigarette. It

kinda feels like SOMEthing is actually working to throw off an exposure at that

point (adrenalin? coupled with the brain's ability to function well enough to

send the signal to release some?) Then there were times of no shaking but

instead muscle weakness & the brain unable to figure out how to make body parts

move - severe loss of motor skills & of involuntary action like breathing,

blinking & swallowing...from exposures & also from accupuncture. (BBB closed so

much for so long that it undermined it's own function of preventing damage?)

Maybe the brain is too starved to get out of it & do the absolute correct thing

in every given moment resulting in further organ problems & longer " recovery "

because of everything being in NON-function mode for so long. Seems to me

there's a very fine line separating too much too little too soon too late when

it comes to the BBB.

The principles behind NAET & Bioset involve retraining the brain... guiding it

to recognize problem areas of the body & send out more helpful signals to

mediate loads. In essence it seems, reducing plasticity & all that goes with it.

Back to " masking " Sometimes I'm on such overload that I know I'd be in big

trouble if I got the slightest exposure but then sometimes I'm so overloaded

that it seems I might as well get another exposure because I'm already shot.

(Not like I look for exposures it's just the judgement call I make when running

errands.) In those cases I'm not masking I'm just so shot that my body is too

shot to change much any time soon... for the good or bad...but of course there's

a limit... another fine line issue. So I'm thinking the blood brain barrier is a

big issue. Without proper oygen to the brain for proper function (whether BBB is

closed or open to toxins) the rest of the system's team effort is thwarted. The

brain is unable to make a few adjustments to mediate. Organ functions kick in

too late or not at all, or go into hyper overdrive, all effecting every other

team member's timing.The function of the BBB is still dependent on a functioning

brain. If organs are too overloaded the brain would be too. And if organs are

too overloaded to handle toxins the BBB needs to mediate properly.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

> >

> > well, let's take my sample size of one, and limit the discussion to mold

> > only, not other EI factors.

> >

> > My son has been out of our moldy house for 6 months now and feels no

> > better. He doesn't feel worse when he goes in a more moldy place or

> > better in a less moldy place. The mold issues in our house were

> > confirmed by ERMI test I did, Dr. Thrasher toxicology work up as well as

> > the work of an Indoor Air Quality consultant, the molds that show up in

> > the house produce the mycotoxins that show up in the house and in the

> > urine of all 4 family members, and in my son's sputum (rest of us didn't

> > test sputum). ALso, he tests highly highly allergic to molds. So,

> > isn't that masking????

> >

> >

> > Sue V

>

[Guest guest]

Diane, so your saying masking can accure during the exposure in a WDB

and some people have no symptoms until they move?

actually I'm even more confused.

first I understood it to be something that happens for a period of time after

you get away from exposure, than that that it can happen even after praticing

avoidance for away, but during exposure too?

your saying you didn't have any symptoms or know you were sick, and this can

happen anytime during and after WDB exposure.

Dr rea believes in the tottal body load too, I guess I just dont get it because

I had symptoms from the start, I just didn't know what was causeing them. why

would this happen to some and not others?

> >

> > well, let's take my sample size of one, and limit the discussion to mold

> > only, not other EI factors.

> >

> > My son has been out of our moldy house for 6 months now and feels no

> > better. He doesn't feel worse when he goes in a more moldy place or

> > better in a less moldy place. The mold issues in our house were

> > confirmed by ERMI test I did, Dr. Thrasher toxicology work up as well as

> > the work of an Indoor Air Quality consultant, the molds that show up in

> > the house produce the mycotoxins that show up in the house and in the

> > urine of all 4 family members, and in my son's sputum (rest of us didn't

> > test sputum). ALso, he tests highly highly allergic to molds. So,

> > isn't that masking????

> >

> >

> > Sue V

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > I'm sorry Sue, I dont understand your reply.

> > masking is a term pertaining to chemical intolerance, where it is thought

that exposure to a chemical may somehow cover up the chemical reaction.

> > I'm guessing that when you say mold, you are meaning both the mold and it's

toxins? yes, TE, and sence he has that, he does have chemical sensitivity, that

means he is intolerant of many chemicals

> > and he will not get to felling better until his liveing space is free of

them or to a very low level, basicly as free of them as you can get. things

that most report that causes them a reaction are purfume,colone,scented

candles,scented laundry soap,shampoo, scented underarm

deorderant,gas,tar,household cleaning products, carpet fresh, and the list goes

on. I'm sorry, I thought someone had probably explained this to you.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Diane,

I do notice at some times a loosening of congestion that makes me spit up the

phlegm. Sometimes, and less so I've noticed that I get a bit congested-- which I

think is due also to something loosening. But I do not take glutathione as an

injection. I take it transdermally which is requires no needle. I measure out

dose through a syringe and apply it on a spot like my shins or inside of my

forearm then apply an activator cream mix the two together and then rub it in.

It seems to work very well. Our doctor likes this method as it is for him a way

to determine how much glutathione my body needs. He sees that when the body

soaks up the cream quickly you need more versus if it absorbs slowly. I'm only

just starting this, so am learning as I go. It is very interesting and used in

conjunction with other supplements like B12. This doc feels

that hydroxocobalamin is the better form of B12. I take it in sublingual form so

again he and I can track what my body

needs and when.

Sam 

--- On Thu, 6/3/10, dianebolton52 <dianebolton@...> wrote

Sam: I injected glutathione and B12 and am still using the B12 weekly. I

think that injecting glutathione is to help your body detox, and the nebulizer

is to heal the lungs. Do you notice improvement with the injections?

[Guest guest]

Jeannine: Let me give you an example of masking and unmasking. I was feeling ill

in my home yes and got to the point to where I was hospitalized for 6 days for

tests. When I got out of the hospital and went home, I reacted IMMEDIATELY upon

entering my home. First thing I said to my son was " what is that awful smell in

here " and he smelled nothing. According to Dr. Rea I had unmasked while in the

hospital and that is why the house bothered me so much more when I returned. He

suggests that you test your home that way. Stay with a friend for 4-5 days and

re-enter you home and see if you re-act. I was a classic case, worked for me

every time. I moved out and have never returned and what happened after that is,

I could not tolerate anything or anyone that came from my home, even my dog.

Unmasked... D

>

> Diane, so your saying masking can accure during the exposure in a WDB

> and some people have no symptoms until they move?

> actually I'm even more confused.

> first I understood it to be something that happens for a period of time after

you get away from exposure, than that that it can happen even after praticing

avoidance for away, but during exposure too?

> your saying you didn't have any symptoms or know you were sick, and this can

happen anytime during and after WDB exposure.

> Dr rea believes in the tottal body load too, I guess I just dont get it

because I had symptoms from the start, I just didn't know what

[Guest guest]

Diane, in my view what you are refering to is sensory,neuron/brain

functions that everyone with or without this illness has.

If thats what masking is, everyone deals with that. that doesn't explain what

sue say's about her son being masked, they have left that environment, they are

not returning to it and smell things they had gotten accustomed to smelling

before, toxic or not.

if I understand her right, she say's her son fells bad but doesn't react to or

realize he is reacting to other evnvironments they incounter.

based on my own experience, I can see how her son's body burden could just be so

overloaded that although he is getting other exposures (allergic and toxic, even

if tiny,even if only the unavoidable)they are adding to and keeping him in this

highly constant state where all his symptoms all basicly one big mass symptom

and what he precieves it as, and what it really is are probably to different

things.

I believe that also having become highly allergic on top on highly chemical

reactive,and with a high body burden along with detoxing disfunctions, his body

is in just a very contant state of termoil.

but haveing the relief of even the immediate reactions in a contant way that he

had during his exposure becomeing not so constant for someone in that shape is

still a relief but with allergies and chemical sensitivies not that much relief

and can be short lived depending on the next environment you try to live in.

while I was in that state, I know there were many things adding to my burden in

one way or another and I wasn't detoxing much at all.

I know there were many more things adding to my overall load and I did reconize

two things that were causeing me chemical sensitivity reactions, purfumes and

cut grass.(and no, it was about allergy to cut grass, it was about what was on

the ground and got stired up and airborn because of the grass being cut, a toxic

soup mix, basically)

I know now that there was a whole lot more affecting me at that time but I was

in such a state that reactivity apon reactivity was just not alowing me to

experience the full reactivity effects in the way I do now.

you still well be functioning in some ways that others well precieve as your

doing ok and you might precieve that you are doing better

but really the only reactions that may have stop are some of the immeditate

reactions related to what was in that environment that you left. but your still

getting and haveing reactions from many things that could be in the new

environment and everywhere else you go.

it's hard to explain but I've been there, I've refered to it many times as

zombie land, you somehow are functioning to some levels, others may precieve you

as functional but really your body is in zombie land, like somehow it's

functioning more on remebering what normal functioning was than anything else.

and your brain is playing tricks on you, and theres no way at that point that

you can really know or tell anyone what you are felling, going through , or even

list your symptoms because you cant even seperate them or know at that point

what they are, there all glombed together, and how you precieve yourself as

functioning is not how you are really functioning at all. some people and even

yourself may catch you saying or doing odd little things that are not normal,

changes in voise, certain ticks, slurred speech, now finishing a sentence or

change subject in the middle of a sentence. answering a question with a answer

that has nothing to do with the question asked.

signs of complusive disorders, anixity disorder type symptoms,ect.

and I'm not saying this is exactly what sue's son is going through, I have no

way of knowing exactly what he is going through, all I can do is say what I

experienced and maybe some of it well related to him.

I may of had alot more brain damage than some others.

anyone that leaves their home a few days well smell things when they first come

back that they didn't realize before because they were used to the smell,

weither it's toxic or not. thats masking?

I do understand yes, that that is a masking in the sence of the word

but is that the same as what the term masking is appling to with this illness.

also, if that smell is toxic, we still have effects from it.

but not everthing that is toxic well cause a immediate chemical sensitivity

reaction but well still cause other effects to our body,

and or add to our body burden.

not all chemicals are equal in effects, or cause effects they we can fell or see

happening. people are exposed to chemical everyday

that toxic soup mix no doubt affects everyone in one way or another.

> >

> > Diane, so your saying masking can accure during the exposure in a WDB

> > and some people have no symptoms until they move?

> > actually I'm even more confused.

> > first I understood it to be something that happens for a period of time

after you get away from exposure, than that that it can happen even after

praticing avoidance for away, but during exposure too?

> > your saying you didn't have any symptoms or know you were sick, and this can

happen anytime during and after WDB exposure.

> > Dr rea believes in the tottal body load too, I guess I just dont get it

because I had symptoms from the start, I just didn't know what

>

[Guest guest]

, honestly, some of it does and some of it doesn't.

I'm slow and sometimes it takes me reading something many times to get it soaked

in and my brain rapped around it.

first, I was under the impression that when the blood has toxic substances in

it, there can be nitric oxide or ohno effects that are going to cause leakage

through the BBB and also the fact that these prolonged exposures can damage the

BBB,for some bad enough that it no longer stops much of anything from getting

into the brain.

and there are more effects that accure to the brain than just lack of air for

some of us anyway. there are effects to the brain from toxins that go straight

up the nose to the brain, there are other cell mediated effects resulting from

exposures and effects to brain chemistry that are also brain effects. and there

are effects as a result of myelin sleath damage in the brain.

how can there possably be any curing by way of any use of reception/transmission

functions when those function are not functioning properly?

not makeing light of lack of air to the brain in any way shape or form, I know

when my airways close up from a toxic assult, the longer

I get reduce air to the brain the more it makes me swoon and the worse my loss

of balance gets, the harder my heart has to work,ect. not good.

also, regarding CNS damage,

damage to the myelin sleaths covering our nerves,

neurons are haveing a problem with reception and transmission,

if the brain and body cant talk to each other that can cause alot of problems

and basiclly send any theories that are based on reception transmisson function

to the trash can.

for example, I fell that build up of neurons at the nerve endings that are not

being transmitted because of the damage to the myelin sleaths that help those

neurons get where their supposed to go may be related to the pain I get where

it hurts to even have someone touch me with even the tinyest bit of prussure

applied. the build up of neurons at the nerve endings from the result of a toxic

exposure activating those neurons but they build up because they are not getting

tranmitted to the brain and so the brain is not recieveing those messages and

not sending out messages in return.

so this horrable pain accures as a result of lasts for several days.

the worse the exposure the worse this pain happens. sometimes it's just

unbearable and I can fell like it's going to drive me over the edge of sanity if

it does stop. luckily it doesn't get to that extreme all the time because I

couldn't deal with it.

I think some may report this as a burning sensation, and in lesser degrees and

tinkleing and stinging effect of the skin, muscles also get acke along with it,

but it's kindof a seperate thing, I've had the muscles hurt so bad I fell like

I've been beaten or ran over by a truck and this other effect can be lesser or

not.

so my guess is that they are somewhat seperate effects and may be to some extent

dependant of the type of the toxin exposed to. ??

but there are also effects to the skin that could also be related to

tingleing,burning effects to the skin because of toxins soaked into the skin

and/or while the body is detoxing through the skin.

my fingers and toes have times when they do alot of tinkleing and at least some

of this I relate to detoxing through the skin and theres sweating involved with

it, claminess of skin ,ect.

so much going on with us, it's draining to even try to make sence of it. if your

like me, it's extremely hard to put put these posts together, I have improved

alittle over the years as to trying to correct spelling, and put things in a way

that others can read and understand what I trying to say but I can spend hours

on a post with any lenght to it, or deep subjects, because whats in my head and

getting it on paper are to different things, I have to reread and change my post

many times, think about what Im trying to say and how to say it and try to

transfer that to paper, holy cow, this used to be so easy for me.sometimes I

will write two words down twice, weird things like that.and this aint just about

brain fog it's brain damage.brain fog on top of that and I probably aint doing

much posting at those times. sometimes I get so aggervated with myself I just

say FORGET IT!

I found that how you retrain the brain with many things is by simply

doing things over and over again and recheck,recheck and just keep pushing

yourself to read,write and check, and I'm not talking about useing spell check,

I never remember I have that feature anyway.

my writeing still lack alot to be desired. and with anything is I stop maying my

mind work for it, there are in some ways set backs and in other ways not. with

much of it, short term vs. long term.

> > >

> > > well, let's take my sample size of one, and limit the discussion to mold

> > > only, not other EI factors.

> > >

> > > My son has been out of our moldy house for 6 months now and feels no

> > > better. He doesn't feel worse when he goes in a more moldy place or

> > > better in a less moldy place. The mold issues in our house were

> > > confirmed by ERMI test I did, Dr. Thrasher toxicology work up as well as

> > > the work of an Indoor Air Quality consultant, the molds that show up in

> > > the house produce the mycotoxins that show up in the house and in the

> > > urine of all 4 family members, and in my son's sputum (rest of us didn't

> > > test sputum). ALso, he tests highly highly allergic to molds. So,

> > > isn't that masking????

> > >

> > >

> > > Sue V

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Diane, heres another thought on what you are discribeing as masking.

I have lost alot of my sence of smell because of damage on the olfactory

system,tract. I cant see any possable way that this is lessoning my chemical

sensitity reactions, it may possably be makeing them worse as far as the brain

is conserned.

if not smelling something stoped us from haveing effects from chemical

exposures, we'd all probably choose not to smell at all.

>

> Diane, in my view what you are refering to is sensory,neuron/brain

> functions that everyone with or without this illness has.

> If thats what masking is, everyone deals with that. that doesn't explain what

sue say's about her son being masked, they have left that environment, they are

not returning to it and smell things they had gotten accustomed to smelling

before, toxic or not.

> if I understand her right, she say's her son fells bad but doesn't react to or

realize he is reacting to other evnvironments they incounter.

> based on my own experience, I

[Guest guest]

You have detailed what I said, " The function of the BBB is still

dependent on a functioning brain.

If organs are too overloaded the brain would be too. "

In a nutshell I think brain dysfunction is a major issue with toxic exposures.

It needs to orchestrate the rest of the body & itself too. The effects of

intermittent marginally adequate functioning of the brain has a notable place in

the list of dysfunctions that cause symptoms to wax & wane... i.e. " masking " .

As a side-note the effects on emotions (from chemical imbalances, the ongoing

struggle to be vigilent about avoidance, & living with a disability with a

constant parade of new symptoms) serve as yet another block to recovery.

On the lighter side the body is pretty amazing & the brain is also a marvel that

can be " retrained " as you say.

>

> , honestly, some of it does and some of it doesn't.

> I'm slow and sometimes it takes me reading something many times to get it

soaked in and my brain rapped around it.

>

>

[Guest guest]

but still, the BBB is not the only route of toxin exposure getting to the brain.

I had wrote a reply but is being goofy and it did not go throuh.

I have others matters pressing right now but this is something very much worth

discuseing. hopefully we can get back to it later on.

as far as masking, I've heard so many thoughts on it, I'm just not sure what to

think.

>

> You have detailed what I said, " The function of the BBB is still

> dependent on a functioning brain.

> If organs are too overloaded the brain would be too. "

>

> In a nutshell I think brain dysfunction is a major issue with toxic exposures.

It needs to orchestrate the rest of the body & itself too. The effects of

intermittent marginally adequate functioning of the brain has a notable place in

the list of dysfunctions that cause symptoms to wax & wane... i.e. " masking " .

>

> As a side-note the effects on emotions (from chemical imbalances, the ongoing

struggle to be vigilent about avoidance, & living with a disability with a

constant parade of new symptoms) serve as yet another block to recovery.

>

> On the lighter side the body is pretty amazing & the brain is also a marvel

that can be " retrained " as you say.

>

>