Guest guest Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 AN was upfront about her intentions to write book. KC and I just didn't notice it. She offered that " I would not violate anyone's privacy. and " This list has been a refuge;Â have no intention of violating it. " I asked her which message numbers those were and she sent them to me. They are below. So she posted about the book a couple of months ago and said this. KC and I have never run into this before so were unprepared, have nothing about it in group rules, etc., but will add it because it's really important that we know if anyone is involved in a for profit activity involving the group. In this case AN was not being secretive so sorry that we missed that fact. I also need to add for new members that AN is relatively new member of the group. Message 83682 was the original. It read: I'm a writer and editor, working as much as I can despite sickness. In a month, I'm done writing a young adult nonfiction book for a publisher. Next, I want to write a book on mold and water damaged buildings (yes, including non-mold problems like bacteria). Please privately email me with your ideas: what is lacking in books about mold and WDBs, what you'd want to read in such a book, what I can do to put these issues back on the national radar. All responses very welcome; experts, especially so. Realize this will be for a general audience; my job would be to translate science as best as I can into understandable concepts. I want this to be an advocacy book, too, so Sharon, your input would help. But again, PLEASE respond to me via email rather than this forum. It won't be worth it to me to do all of this work if some other writer who reads this forum is just going to go ahead and write the same book (it happens!). In solidarity! AN Then, realizing that some people may get the wrong idea, I posted message #83700. It read: Hi all, I've already received GREAT emails from folks interested in this book. Please keep them coming; remember to email me your ideas or feedback (at advocate_now@...). I won't ever quote anyone on this list without permission, so no need to worry about your privacy. This list has been a refuge; I have no intention of violating it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Barb, I will not abide by any new rules applied about " for profit activities. " People benefit from sharing here. Carl gets clients, Sharon learns things, etc. The only thing I got from this group is an introduction from experts; I would have easily found them anyway and introduced myself to them. You don't have a right to ask me anything, except that I not violate anyone's privacy. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 6, 2011, at 1:40 AM, bbw <barb1283@...> wrote: AN was upfront about her intentions to write book. KC and I just didn't notice it. She offered that " I would not violate anyone's privacy. and " This list has been a refuge;Â have no intention of violating it. " I asked her which message numbers those were and she sent them to me. They are below. So she posted about the book a couple of months ago and said this. KC and I have never run into this before so were unprepared, have nothing about it in group rules, etc., but will add it because it's really important that we know if anyone is involved in a for profit activity involving the group. In this case AN was not being secretive so sorry that we missed that fact. I also need to add for new members that AN is relatively new member of the group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 I didn't say we didn't accept here any people who make profit in this field but that we need to know who they are. It makes a difference if you are talking to a salesperson for example who is saying something wonderful about a product they 'sell', versus a product that they merely 'use' and get no money for passing on that advice. We've already explained this ad nauseum to you in very many ways. > > AN was upfront about her intentions to write book. KC and I just didn't notice it. She offered that " I would not violate anyone's privacy. and " This list has been a refuge;Â have no intention of violating it. " I asked her which message numbers those were and she sent them to me. They are below. So she posted about the book a couple of months ago and said this. > > KC and I have never run into this before so were unprepared, have nothing about it in group rules, etc., but will add it because it's really important that we know if anyone is involved in a for profit activity involving the group. In this case AN was not being secretive so sorry that we missed that fact. > > I also need to add for new members that AN is relatively new member of the group. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 AN, You don't like people speaking for you and you get very upset, rightly so, when they misrepresent you. So I hope you understand my response to your statement " Carl gets clients. " I made very clear from the start with KC and Barb that I am a professional indoor environmental consultant. They also understand and appreciate that 99% of my time with Sickbuildings is totally volunteer. They also understand and appreciate that I occasionally work individually with members here - at no charge. For the 3-4 times a year I am asked to work professionally for pay with a Sickbuildings member I clearly state up-front when I charge and when I don't. They always have the power to stop at anytime before or during a fee-based consultation. Even then my work is sometimes at reduced rates. Quite frankly, those few times are not much of a benefit to my bank account because it takes away from my regular business where I can earn much more money. It also takes away from my volunteer obligations with several non-profits for which I also volunteer. That said, I gladly and freely give of my time because what happened to me wasn't necessary and what happens to others on this group also isn't necessary. I am one of the very fortunate ones who have recovered sufficiently to function again at a very high level. I express my gratitude for my good fortune by helping others as much as I can so maybe they won't lose 10+ years or the rest of their life of continuing suffering at such a great level. One regret, which is extremely humbling, is that I can't help everyone and not everyone can experience significant recovery. My other regret is how the " snake oil " salespeople exploit the lack of definitive cause and effect of exposure to indoor pollutants and toxins. They promote benefits to everyone and take advantage of our never ending hopes for a cure. So we spend money we can't afford to waste. They get more and more expert at their " con " and it is sometimes extremely difficult to figure it out. Especially since almost anything can help at least a couple of people. So maybe I'm the one who will be cured! I can't win the lottery if I don't buy a ticket. As for finding the experts of Dr Thrasher, , and myself with or without Sickbuildings, yes, but you'd find other experts. And if you checked a variety of sources you'd eventually be led to those who are truly experts compared to me. Some of whom are my mentors. Thinking we sufficiently represent the body of knowledge is naïve. --So, expressing my reaction in terms similar to your point of view, I resent your characterizing me in the way you perceive rather than with knowledge of me. But more critically, it is unethical to " use " my name, reputation, and credentials without my permission in support of your argument justifying your benefitting from Sickbuilding members.-- And that, AN, gets to the crux of what I'm seeing as much of the legitimate concern (not " fear! " ) being expressed by several on this group: " Stealth " use of their experience, words, issues, or position for your benefit with nothing in return except disdain for their very personal and intimate experience which they freely share and risk. And you compound this by saying your only benefit here is " an introduction to experts. " If that were true you'd have left long ago and not engaged with numerous conversations and discussions about WDB, mold, bacteria, and all the other issues. With an attitude like yours I refuse to be included in or associated with your work. I don't know what others need to heal the distrust but what I need is a statement of awareness and acceptance of my concerns and how you will conduct yourself with me in the future. Then I can decide if I'm willing to accept it and work with you. It will take a conversation, not a fight, between us. Over time. Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC ----- Barb, I will not abide by any new rules applied about " for profit activities. " People benefit from sharing here. Carl gets clients, Sharon learns things, etc. The only thing I got from this group is an introduction from experts; I would have easily found them anyway and introduced myself to them. You don't have a right to ask me anything, except that I not violate anyone's privacy. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 6, 2011, at 1:40 AM, bbw <barb1283@...> wrote: AN was upfront about her intentions to write book. KC and I just didn't notice it. She offered that " I would not violate anyone's privacy. and " This list has been a refuge;Â have no intention of violating it. " I asked her which message numbers those were and she sent them to me. They are below. So she posted about the book a couple of months ago and said this. KC and I have never run into this before so were unprepared, have nothing about it in group rules, etc., but will add it because it's really important that we know if anyone is involved in a for profit activity involving the group. In this case AN was not being secretive so sorry that we missed that fact. I also need to add for new members that AN is relatively new member of the group. ---------- The following section of this message contains a file attachment prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format. If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any other MIME-compliant system, you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer. If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance. ---- File information ----------- File: DEFAULT.BMP Date: 15 Jun 2009, 23:10 Size: 358 bytes. Type: Unknown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 I have to chime in and say Carl talked to me for about an hour in December and gave me a lot of good advice about sealing aromatic wood, and how to find hidden leaks. By the way Carl, I wanted to just add to that phone conversation we had and note that shellac flakes in everclear alcohol presents a completely nontoxic vapor barrier that is far better than safeseal or any other product. But you have to let each coat completely cure between coats so you don't seal in the alcohol. Just fyi. I tried it on a strip of wood and it was really good. Instead of using 5-10 coats of safeseal... I can imagine people on this group would be conflicted about someone participating in the group and gleaning direct and indirect info and using it to write a book that they profit from exclusively. I would think such a person would have to come onto the list clearly stating, I'm writing a book, from the start, and restate it from time to time for new members, and also make sure the moderators are comfortable with that. > > AN, > > You don't like people speaking for you and you get very upset, > rightly so, when they misrepresent you. So I hope you understand > my response to your statement " Carl gets clients. " > > I made very clear from the start with KC and Barb that I am a > professional indoor environmental consultant. They also > understand and appreciate that 99% of my time with > Sickbuildings is totally volunteer. They also understand and > appreciate that I occasionally work individually with members > here - at no charge. > > For the 3-4 times a year I am asked to work professionally for pay > with a Sickbuildings member I clearly state up-front when I > charge and when I don't. They always have the power to stop at > anytime before or during a fee-based consultation. Even then my > work is sometimes at reduced rates. > > Quite frankly, those few times are not much of a benefit to my > bank account because it takes away from my regular business > where I can earn much more money. It also takes away from my > volunteer obligations with several non-profits for which I also > volunteer. > > That said, I gladly and freely give of my time because what > happened to me wasn't necessary and what happens to others > on this group also isn't necessary. I am one of the very fortunate > ones who have recovered sufficiently to function again at a very > high level. I express my gratitude for my good fortune by helping > others as much as I can so maybe they won't lose 10+ years or > the rest of their life of continuing suffering at such a great level. > > > One regret, which is extremely humbling, is that I can't help > everyone and not everyone can experience significant recovery. > My other regret is how the " snake oil " salespeople exploit the lack > of definitive cause and effect of exposure to indoor pollutants and > toxins. They promote benefits to everyone and take advantage of > our never ending hopes for a cure. So we spend money we can't > afford to waste. They get more and more expert at their " con " and > it is sometimes extremely difficult to figure it out. Especially since > almost anything can help at least a couple of people. So maybe > I'm the one who will be cured! I can't win the lottery if I don't buy a > ticket. > > As for finding the experts of Dr Thrasher, , and myself with > or without Sickbuildings, yes, but you'd find other experts. And if > you checked a variety of sources you'd eventually be led to those > who are truly experts compared to me. Some of whom are my > mentors. Thinking we sufficiently represent the body of > knowledge is naïve. > > --So, expressing my reaction in terms similar to your point of > view, I resent your characterizing me in the way you perceive > rather than with knowledge of me. But more critically, it is > unethical to " use " my name, reputation, and credentials without > my permission in support of your argument justifying your > benefitting from Sickbuilding members.-- > > And that, AN, gets to the crux of what I'm seeing as much of the > legitimate concern (not " fear! " ) being expressed by several on > this group: " Stealth " use of their experience, words, issues, or > position for your benefit with nothing in return except disdain for > their very personal and intimate experience which they freely > share and risk. > > And you compound this by saying your only benefit here is " an > introduction to experts. " If that were true you'd have left long ago > and not engaged with numerous conversations and discussions > about WDB, mold, bacteria, and all the other issues. With an > attitude like yours I refuse to be included in or associated with > your work. > > I don't know what others need to heal the distrust but what I need > is a statement of awareness and acceptance of my concerns and > how you will conduct yourself with me in the future. Then I can > decide if I'm willing to accept it and work with you. It will take a > conversation, not a fight, between us. Over time. > > Carl Grimes > Healthy Habitats LLC > > ----- > Barb, I will not abide by any new rules applied about " for profit > activities. " People benefit from sharing here. Carl gets clients, Sharon > learns things, etc. The only thing I got from this group is an introduction > from experts; I would have easily found them anyway and introduced > myself to them. You don't have a right to ask me anything, except that I > not violate anyone's privacy. > > Sent from my iPhone > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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