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Re: Move or remediate...how does one know?

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I'd recommend getting an air quality/mold inspector (but not one who does

remediation -- search the internet for IAQ experts in your area) in to your home

to see how bad the problem is and what's causing it. I don't know where you're

located, but here in Wisconsin, I'd recommend http://www.iaqdiagnostics.com/ ,

which is the company I had out to inspect my new, non-moldy, home prior to and

after purchase. The gentlemen used an air sampler to collect air in different

parts of the house, then sent the air canisters to a lab to grow and identify

the DNA type and count of the mold samples. This is apparently the " gold

standard " for mold identification. He also did a sample of outdoor air so that

we would know what things were probably just coming in on the air from outdoors,

and what was actually growing in the house. He also used infrared cameras and

moisture meters to look for problems.

I can't say for sure about what to purge and what to keep. I moved last fall

from a moldy home owned by my husband's workplace to a new (to us) one we

purchased. We discarded anything that smelled moldy or musty (some books,

fabric items, stuffed items) or had mold growing on it (a bunch of bookcases and

one dresser), but the mold growth in that house was not strachy -- " toxic mold "

and was mainly confined to the basement, which we'd used mainly for storage. We

wiped all the other furniture off as it was moved (we moved less than

half-a-mile), covered all the mattresses with mold proof zip-around covers, and

we're hoping that by keeping the humidity in the new house low and vacuuming

frequently with a top HEPA vacuum will keep us from getting mold growth here.

Already, my health has started improving and my husband and children, whom we'd

long thought were pretty unaffected by the mold, have also noticed a reduction

in sinus headaches and eczema. We all agree that although we loved the location

of our long-time home, we've made the right choice in getting away from the

mold.

HTH,

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Peggy, if you say what state your in, several well be able to direct you to the

closest doctors. if you fell better when away from the home you might want to

consider staying somewhere else that allows you to fell better, clean,

non-chemical, motel room. some pitch a tent outside but youd still have in go

inside for things so thats not a great solution.a clean,used RV might be another

idea. it's important not to have any contaminated objects,cloths,ect. from your

house in your space, to fell better.

dont throw away things yet, some have managed to clean things and possable long

term storage may denature some things, make sure they are all very dry before

storage, airtight containers come in handy.

you really dont need to be trying to deal with all that right now.

pictures might be saved if theres no mold growth on them, lightly wipe them down

with dry rag, if there not in picture frames, doing so later on might help you

tolerate them, if they are in picture frames,

use a washrag with hot water, a little ammonia and dawn dish washing soap to

wipe down the frames and glass really good and they might be ok. for now, you

may atleast want to go to a allergest and be tested for mold allergies, and have

a sinus culture done and have your sinuses washed out. hang in there and we

well try to get your questions answered.

>

> Hello...I'm new to this group & mold hypersensitivity, looking for information

& support. I am devastated & depressed, not knowing what to do & how far you

have to go...whether to move, leaving everything behind, or remediate...not

knowing if that will be good enough. How far does it go? How does one know how

much you need to do? I feel I'm running from something that's everywhere. I

feel I'm a burden to my husband, who isn't ill & questions that it has to be so

drastic..I'm more desperate to get well, Do any mold hypersensitive people move

or remediate & go on to live " normal " lives? How does one know what can be

cleaned ( & how?) & what has to be let go of? I have read that papers, pictures

(my kids' pictures?), books, etc can't be saved...what about wood furniture,

etc...how does one know? And if you move, where do you go? What do you take?

How do you know another place is safe from mold? How does one test before

renting/buying? I was told to get my mold plates to " 2 " , which the lab said is

next to impossible. Can one even get it good enough to relieve symptoms? Are

mold plate testings accurate enough to really know? I'm not sure where to turn

& what to do & in the meantime I live in a moldier than I can tolerate home. We

found a roof leak, fixed it (including removing any questionable wood, etc), use

IQ air purifiers, keep humidity <45%, fog monthly...not good enough. I ask for

your help & your experience in this so I see a light at the end of the tunnel &

see relief in sight...don't know how you all have coped with this situation.

Thank you so much for your support. I am grateful to have others who

understand.

>

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Peggy Im so sorry that your having to go through this but just about everyone

here feels your pain including myself.

I would suggest finding a Dr whose knowledgeable about mold and how to treat it.

My GP wanted to attribute my symptoms to everything else but mold but once I

started showing him documentation that I had read on this great group and asked

him to think outside of the box he finally started to listen to me.

I am now seeing not only GP but an Infectious Disease Dr who have put me on

antifungals and it has helped but it's almost like watching paint dry.

Mold not only takes over your body physically but mentally as well but the one

thing that everyone that I've spoke to here tells me is that I'll get through

this but patients and diligence is a must

>

> Hello...I'm new to this group & mold hypersensitivity, looking for information

& support. I am devastated & depressed, not knowing what to do & how far you

have to go...whether to move, leaving everything behind, or remediate...not

knowing if that will be good enough. How far does it go? How does one know how

much you need to do? I feel I'm running from something that's everywhere. I

feel I'm a burden to my husband, who isn't ill & questions that it has to be so

drastic..I'm more desperate to get well, Do any mold hypersensitive people move

or remediate & go on to live " normal " lives? How does one know what can be

cleaned ( & how?) & what has to be let go of? I have read that papers, pictures

(my kids' pictures?), books, etc can't be saved...what about wood furniture,

etc...how does one know? And if you move, where do you go? What do you take?

How do you know another place is safe from mold? How does one test before

renting/buying? I was told to get my mold plates to " 2 " , which the lab said is

next to impossible. Can one even get it good enough to relieve symptoms? Are

mold plate testings accurate enough to really know? I'm not sure where to turn

& what to do & in the meantime I live in a moldier than I can tolerate home. We

found a roof leak, fixed it (including removing any questionable wood, etc), use

IQ air purifiers, keep humidity <45%, fog monthly...not good enough. I ask for

your help & your experience in this so I see a light at the end of the tunnel &

see relief in sight...don't know how you all have coped with this situation.

Thank you so much for your support. I am grateful to have others who

understand.

>

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by entering your state, you might find a doctor in your area

Find AAEM member/state

http://www.aaemonline.org/positionpapers.html

>

> >

> > Hello...I'm new to this group & mold hypersensitivity, looking for

information & support. I am devastated & depressed, not knowing what to do & how

far you have to go...whether to move, leaving everything behind, or

remediate...not knowing if that will be good enough. How far does it go? How

does one know how much you need to do? I feel I'm running from something that's

everywhere. I feel I'm a burden to my husband, who isn't ill & questions that it

has to be so drastic..I'm more desperate to get well, Do any mold hypersensitive

people move or remediate & go on to live " normal " lives? How does one know what

can be cleaned ( & how?) & what has to be let go of? I have read that papers,

pictures (my kids' pictures?), books, etc can't be saved...what about wood

furniture, etc...how does one know? And if you move, where do you go? What do

you take? How do you know another place is safe from mold? How does one test

before renting/buying? I was told to get my mold plates to " 2 " , which the lab

said is next to impossible. Can one even get it good enough to relieve symptoms?

Are mold plate testings accurate enough to really know? I'm not sure where to

turn & what to do & in the meantime I live in a moldier than I can tolerate

home. We found a roof leak, fixed it (including removing any questionable wood,

etc), use IQ air purifiers, keep humidity <45%, fog monthly...not good enough.

I ask for your help & your experience in this so I see a light at the end of the

tunnel & see relief in sight...don't know how you all have coped with this

situation. Thank you so much for your support. I am grateful to have others

who understand.

> >

>

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest guest

Thank you all for your responses....it helps so much to not feel alone. Support

is a blessing. You've given me ideas that take some of the " overwhelmed "

feeling away.

...thank you for the details of your mold testing. I think that would be

a 1st step...was that the " ERMI " test that was gold standard? I read about that

recently. I wondered how someone would know where they were

moving/buying/renting would be mold-free. I suspect mold residue is in the wood

ceiling & wall as that's where the water had dripped. When I leave the house &

I smell a " musty " " old " smell when I return (there's alot of wood as it's a

cabin). Mold plates have not showed Stachybotrys. Nobody else seems to be

bothered by it but I have a multitude of allergies (enviro/foods/chemicals) from

a previous home exposure that I was not aware of for many years (I worked at

home so had alot of exposure).

Osisposis...I do have an RV that we travel in & had thoughts of moving into the

driveway...but like you said, I'd have to come in to do laundry, shower, etc.

It's so hard not to come in when you are right there. I have packed linens,

etc. from the house into the RV so I'm sure there was cross-contamination,

although I feel better " fatigue-wise " when we live in it for weeks at a time. I

still suffer allergy/hayfever reactions but " feel " better (even tho I'm

living/sleeping in the same room as my dogs, that I'm quite allergic to). How

does one assure they do not cross-contaminate another area? Would I be able to

clean it adequately to be safe? I have seen an Enviro doc, which helped quite a

bit but not enough, & had my sinuses cultured by a mold savy ENT...I do have

fungal sinusitis. Am presently researching Dr's Lieberman & Rae to cont.

treatment as I didn't feel the allergy testing done by the previous doc was very

precise/accurate.

Tug...I do wonder if I will need a " mold " doc as well as a " detox/Enviro " doc.

The Enviro doc I went to was not as savy as the mold specialist, for sure.

Thank you for the encouragement, understanding & support you have all provided.

I feel so much better knowing others have gotten thru this & I will too. It's

all so overwhelming, feeling the urgency to resolve it asap. Looking back I

feel I had mold exposure on & off for the last 20 yrs...I don't know how much

more my body/mind can take at 51 yrs old (menopause doesn't help). I only hope I

am not beyond recovery, as I have read people talk about. Thank you for sharing

your wealth of experience with me & all the others out there in need of support.

I am so grateful.

Wishing you all wellness & happiness,

Peggy:)

>

>

>

> Peggy Im so sorry that your having to go through this but just about everyone

here feels your pain including myself.

>

> I would suggest finding a Dr whose knowledgeable about mold and how to treat

it. My GP wanted to attribute my symptoms to everything else but mold but once I

started showing him documentation that I had read on this great group and asked

him to think outside of the box he finally started to listen to me.

>

> I am now seeing not only GP but an Infectious Disease Dr who have put me on

antifungals and it has helped but it's almost like watching paint dry.

>

> Mold not only takes over your body physically but mentally as well but the one

thing that everyone that I've spoke to here tells me is that I'll get through

this but patients and diligence is a must

>

>

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Guest guest

Peggy,

You've received some good advice and you're on the right track

by considering several options rather than relying on just one to

determine " safe " or " not safe. " I say this especially in reference to

the ERMI test. By itself it is suspect and is not to be used to

determine health issues. That is the position taken by the

developer of ERMI. However, when used within the context of

other information from a qualified professional or a savvy

physician (like how Shoemaker uses it) it can be a very useful

tool among many tools.

Mold plates miss most of the mold. Stachybotrys is often not in

the air to settle out on mold plates or be detected by professional

air sampling. The " musty " odor is from the VOCs generated by

mold and/or water damaged wood and other materials. If you

react in the building, recover when you leave, only to react again

upon re-entry that is all the proof you need to know there is a

problem. For you. What others say is irrelevant. It's your life, not

theirs.

What the problem is, where it is, and what it will take to fix it (if it's

even possible) is where it can get difficult.

I have a client with an indoor pool, previous water damage from

leaky windows and condensation in ceiling. That was 5 years ago

when they bought it. They didn't react and didn't repair, prefering

to spend their money on higher priority issues in the main house.

They have lived their five years with no mold reactivity.

This week they called to say mold was growing on the walls.

Inspection found a small change in their ventilation system

resulted in inadequate removal of humidity coming from

evaporating pool water. Black mold growing in 3 small areas of

the interior walls.

All the old problems remained. They were still not reacting when

using the pool room twice a week for about 30 minutes each time

but they had strong concerns about long term effects of mold

exposure.

I didn't test for mold because in can be removed from the interior

surfaces. Old mold inside the walls is known from previous

inspections and they weren't reacting to it. The kind of mold does

not change whether or not it needs to be removed. Neither does it

change what needs to be done to remove and remediate.

Question: Do they fix the ventilation and clean the interior

surfaces (less than $500) or open the walls to repair them?

Dilemma: Opening the walls will again reveal the rotted framing

they didn't replace last time, plus additional damage because the

leaking windows have not been fixed or replaced, and evidence

of leaks through the exterior siding to inside the wall. Once they

begin opening the walls and continue in all directions until they

find the boundaries of the mold and water damage they will end

up not only gutting the entire room but needing to replace 3 of the

4 walls at a cost of at least $50,000.

What would you do? They are, tonight, discussin what they will

do.

BTW, a remediation contractor yesterday told them the mold was

killer mold and he would need $65,000 to fix the problem. Slight

conflict of interest, the guy fixing the problem determining there is

a problem and how much it will cost (meaning how much he

wants to make).

Good luck and let's us know that happens.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

Thank you all for your responses....it helps so much to not feel alone. Support

is a blessing. You've given me ideas that take some of the " overwhelmed " feeling

away.

...thank you for the details of your mold testing. I think that would be

a 1st step...was that the " ERMI " test that was gold standard? I read about that

recently. I wondered how someone would know where they were

moving/buying/renting would be mold-free. I suspect mold residue is in the wood

ceiling & wall as that's where the water had dripped. When I leave the house & I

smell a " musty " " old " smell when I return (there's alot of wood as it's a cabin).

Mold plates have not showed Stachybotrys. Nobody else seems to be bothered by it

but I have a multitude of allergies (enviro/foods/chemicals) from a previous

home exposure that I was not aware of for many years (I worked at home so had

alot of exposure).

Osisposis...I do have an RV that we travel in & had thoughts of moving into the

driveway...but like you said, I'd have to come in to do laundry, shower, etc.

It's so hard not to come in when you are right there. I have packed linens, etc.

from the house into the RV so I'm sure there was cross-contamination, although I

feel better " fatigue-wise " when we live in it for weeks at a time. I still

suffer allergy/hayfever reactions but " feel " better (even tho I'm

living/sleeping in the same room as my dogs, that I'm quite allergic to). How

does one assure they do not cross-contaminate another area? Would I be able to

clean it adequately to be safe? I have seen an Enviro doc, which helped quite a

bit but not enough, & had my sinuses cultured by a mold savy ENT...I do have

fungal sinusitis. Am presently researching Dr's Lieberman & Rae to cont.

treatment as I didn't feel the allergy testing done by the previous doc was very

precise/accurate.

Tug...I do wonder if I will need a " mold " doc as well as a " detox/Enviro " doc.

The Enviro doc I went to was not as savy as the mold specialist, for sure.

Thank you for the encouragement, understanding & support you have all provided.

I feel so much better knowing others have gotten thru this & I will too. It's

all so overwhelming, feeling the urgency to resolve it asap. Looking back I feel

I had mold exposure on & off for the last 20 yrs...I don't know how much more my

body/mind can take at 51 yrs old (menopause doesn't help). I only hope I am not

beyond recovery, as I have read people talk about. Thank you for sharing your

wealth of experience with me & all the others out there in need of support. I am

so grateful.

Wishing you all wellness & happiness,

Peggy:)

>

>

>

> Peggy Im so sorry that your having to go through this but just about everyone

here feels your pain including myself.

>

> I would suggest finding a Dr whose knowledgeable about mold and how to treat

it. My GP wanted to attribute my symptoms to everything else but mold but once I

started showing him documentation that I had read on this great group and asked

him to think outside of the box he finally started to listen to me.

>

> I am now seeing not only GP but an Infectious Disease Dr who have put me on

antifungals and it has helped but it's almost like watching paint dry.

>

> Mold not only takes over your body physically but mentally as well but the one

thing that everyone that I've spoke to here tells me is that I'll get through

this but patients and diligence is a must

>

>

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Hi Carl,

How does Shoemaker use the ERMI test?

Thanks, Sue

>Peggy,

>

>You've received some good advice and you're on the right track

>by considering several options rather than relying on just one to

>determine " safe " or " not safe. " I say this especially in reference to

>the ERMI test. By itself it is suspect and is not to be used to

>determine health issues. That is the position taken by the

>developer of ERMI. However, when used within the context of

>other information from a qualified professional or a savvy

>physician (like how Shoemaker uses it) it can be a very useful

>tool among many tools.

>

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Guest guest

Again, I see that the group responses are ignoring the multitude of contaminants

in damp indoor spaces. But, first, the ERMI test needs to be performed on dust

as well as bulk samples. I have seen situations where bulk samples show

Stachybotrys, while the dust samples do not. The reason, Stachybotrys does not

readily shed its spores. In addition, air borne spore sampling does not reveal

the presence of particulates that are less than 1 micron. These particulates

are up to 500 times more concentrated than the spores.

The indoor environment from microbial growth contains a multitude of

contaminants. In general, these come from the microbial growth. What do I mean

by microbial growth: Molds and their by-products plus Bacteria and their

by-products. Everyone talks about the molds and mycotoxins. However, you are

missing other critical groups of bacteria. There are gram negative and positive

bacteria in these environments. These are all potentially harmful to the

occupants. For example, the Gram positive bacteria include organisms in the

Actinobacter group: Streptomyces, Mycobacterium, Nocardia, Corynebacterium and

Propionibacterium. Antigens from Mycobacterium and Propionibacterium have been

associated with serious lung disease: RADS, Asthma, hypersensitivity

pneumonitis, and Sarcoidosis. The Mycobacteria (several species) are believed

to be the causative organism in MAC (Mycobacterium Avium Complex). The

Corynebacterium contain the diphtheria and pseudodiptheria bacteria.

Streptomyces californicus releases Vanolin, which is synergistic in animal

models with trichothecenes. In addition, the Streptomyces spp are the source of

antibiotics as well as chemotherapeutic agents. When testing these

environments, bacteria should also be identified. The paper I wrote and

published in Toxicology and Environmental Health is available by either emailing

me or from the web site: truth about molds, along with other vital information -

http://truthaboutmold.info/home

Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Off: 916-745-4703

Cell: 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

916-745-4703 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

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Guest guest

The answer to this question is dependent upon many variables, with the most

important being, " how has the receptor (the exposed person) changed? " I have

performed post remediation testing on thousands of homes. I always collect a

combination of culturable and spore trap samples, as well as settled dust if

indicated. Most of the time, occupants are able to return to effectively

remediated houses. However, sometimes people who become sick from mold exposure

are not able to re-occupy even though all results, including ERMI testing,

demonstrated acceptable conditions. In these cases, the affected individuals

had one or a combination of the following exposure issues: (1) they lived in the

contaminated house for many years (2) remediation was performed with

sub-standard containment measures (3) they spent most of their time in the home;

(4) they attempted to remediate mold themselves. The individuals in these

cases were so adversely affected that very low, often undetectable, levels of

contamination triggered reactions.

The inability to re-occupy a remediated home without symptoms becomes a point of

contention with insurance companies, which generally claim that the house must

only be restored to conditions that existed prior to the loss. Insurance

companies generally will not address the fact that irreversible health effects

preclude safe reoccupancy of a remediated house for some people. Far too often

the outcome is emotional and financial devastation.

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Connie,

I agree with 99% of what you said. Excellent advise. There are two quibbling

points.

1. Clearance even by ERMI. I'm at the IAQA conference and again several speakers

pointed out the limitations of ERMI. I and others have made this point here

before but today I saw a comparison of ERMI scores from different parts of the

country. ERMI can be fairly accurate for a certain set of conditions but the

further away the less the reliability. It can still be useful but needs to be

interpreted by context, not simply by its score alone.

2. Insurance companies and a return to pre-loss conditions. Habitability before

the event is a pre-loss condition to which it should be returned. But you have

to make this point with them, because they won't volunteer it to you. ACGIH 15.5

and EPA have supportive language.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

(fm my Blackberry)

[] Re: Move or remediate...how does one know?

The answer to this question is dependent upon many variables, with the most

important being, " how has the receptor (the exposed person) changed? " I have

performed post remediation testing on thousands of homes. I always collect a

combination of culturable and spore trap samples, as well as settled dust if

indicated. Most of the time, occupants are able to return to effectively

remediated houses. However, sometimes people who become sick from mold exposure

are not able to re-occupy even though all results, including ERMI testing,

demonstrated acceptable conditions. In these cases, the affected individuals

had one or a combination of the following exposure issues: (1) they lived in the

contaminated house for many years (2) remediation was performed with

sub-standard containment measures (3) they spent most of their time in the home;

(4) they attempted to remediate mold themselves. The individuals in these

cases were so adversely affected that very low, often undetectable, levels of

contamination triggered reactions.

The inability to re-occupy a remediated home without symptoms becomes a point of

contention with insurance companies, which generally claim that the house must

only be restored to conditions that existed prior to the loss. Insurance

companies generally will not address the fact that irreversible health effects

preclude safe reoccupancy of a remediated house for some people. Far too often

the outcome is emotional and financial devastation.

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Guest guest

Thanks Carl - points well taken. I try to use a combination of testing for

clearance, depending on the health of the occupants, degree of contamination

prior to remediation, expectations of client. Sometimes, I don't test - just do

detailed visual. I seldom rely only on ERMI. Although, I add this to my

sampling plan both pre and post at times. I have been splitting dust samples

lately and have culture results and DNA from separate labs. Interesting

information. Although organisms are not always the same, the conclusions

frequently are.

I have used the EPA and ACGIH quotes in dealing with insurance companies. No

much luck without litigation.

Sorry I missed the conference this year. The economy in MI is starting to

affect my business, so staying close to home for a while.

>

> Connie,

>

> I agree with 99% of what you said. Excellent advise. There are two quibbling

points.

>

> 1. Clearance even by ERMI. I'm at the IAQA conference and again several

speakers pointed out the limitations of ERMI. I and others have made this point

here before but today I saw a comparison of ERMI scores from different parts of

the country. ERMI can be fairly accurate for a certain set of conditions but

the further away the less the reliability. It can still be useful but needs to

be interpreted by context, not simply by its score alone.

>

> 2. Insurance companies and a return to pre-loss conditions. Habitability

before the event is a pre-loss condition to which it should be returned. But

you have to make this point with them, because they won't volunteer it to you.

ACGIH 15.5 and EPA have supportive language.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

> (fm my Blackberry)

>

>

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Guest guest

>

> Hello...I'm new to this group & mold hypersensitivity, looking for information

& support. I am devastated & depressed, not knowing what to do & how far you

have to go...whether to move, leaving everything behind, or remediate...not

knowing if that will be good enough. How far does it go? How does one know how

much you need to do?

________________________

Every situation is different.

In my own, we have removed the offending item (HVAC system) replaced with new,

and are replacing step-wise what seems to continue to make me sick. Next is the

bedroom carpeting.

I am using my MSH (was still too low) and MMP9 - was still too high (taking

into consideration my HLA-DR-DBQ) along with symptoms to monitor and decide what

to do when. Over an 8 week period, my MSH dropped four points, but I have been

out and about, and cleaning up some " hot-spots " around the house. I am the

sickest/most sensitive family member so no one else " understands " very well.

I definitely feel better when away, but I know which rooms/items are bad, and

avoid them for now. I am going to avoid sleeping in the bedroom to see if I get

improvement, and until we can save up for wood floors as I always wake up in

there with a runny nose.

Am I going to have more testing done? If I need to in order to make repair

decisions, but I think the worst parts are gone. Whatever remains in the

carpeting bothers me, so I mostly just need to know that it needs to go --

regardless of what it is!

Items that have a bad odor will need to go. I already tried to clean them, but

that didn't do it. Areas that have odor still need more work.

It is probably NOT what Dr. Shoemaker would say to do, but I only have so much

money, and there aren't any clean places I can find to rent. My home is the

cleanest thing I can find, and I know what to avoid.

I find I have to get out long enough to clear my head so that decisions can be

made and prioritized. Staying in the house makes decisions slow--brain fog

related.

Staying home makes my back hurt. Getting out clears it up.

My best to you, as I am still in the midst of all this myself.

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Thank you all for your information...I am so grateful to FINALLY feel I'm not

alone in all this.

I think we've decided it's time to move on...now figuring how to do that. I

have been sleeping in a 2nd bedroom for now (have a log bed in ours & wonder if

it too is moldy?). Have thoughts or moving to our travel trailer but after

reading so much about cross-contamination, know we've contaminated it with the

items we've packed into it from our house. Not sure how to begin to find a safe

housing situation & not take a thing with us (no clothing, personal products,

computer, etc., etc., etc?). I think the TT may be the lesser of 2 evils for

now as I know when we have lived in it for many weeks, I always felt " better " ,

altho still reacting to everything else. When I came home this last time (2

months ago), I have seen a definate difference in my declining health.

We have no income presently (left jobs to move & economy went to poop). I feel

unable to work at all presently & my husband is trying, but he's 60 yrs old &

nobody is hiring. I feel stuck in trying to find relief in health & have to be

careful it's affordable. We don't know anyone where we are living.

Brain fog? My memory is horrible, confused & can't think straight most of the

time. I just rec'd the book, Mold Warriors but am afraid to read right now as

I'm so " low " I'm afraid I will see no way out & it will add to the misery. I

realize now that I lived in moldy houses for the last 20 years on & off....my

fears are that I am beyond recovery. I just want to be well.

Thanks to all of you who have shared your information...I am digesting it all as

quickly as my mind will allow. I know I need to figure this out & get out

asap...not sure how to begin to pack & how to get rid of our belonginings but I

am blessed to have a place to share & get experiences of others. Thank you so

much.

Peggy:)

>> Every situation is different.

> In my own, we have removed the offending item (HVAC system) replaced with new,

and are replacing step-wise what seems to continue to make me sick. Next is the

bedroom carpeting.

>

> I am using my MSH (was still too low) and MMP9 - was still too high (taking

into consideration my HLA-DR-DBQ) along with symptoms to monitor and decide what

to do when. Over an 8 week period, my MSH dropped four points, but I have been

out and about, and cleaning up some " hot-spots " around the house. I am the

sickest/most sensitive family member so no one else " understands " very well.

>

> I definitely feel better when away, but I know which rooms/items are bad, and

avoid them for now. I am going to avoid sleeping in the bedroom to see if I get

improvement, and until we can save up for wood floors as I always wake up in

there with a runny nose.

>

> Am I going to have more testing done? If I need to in order to make repair

decisions, but I think the worst parts are gone. Whatever remains in the

carpeting bothers me, so I mostly just need to know that it needs to go --

regardless of what it is!

>

> Items that have a bad odor will need to go. I already tried to clean them, but

that didn't do it. Areas that have odor still need more work.

>

> It is probably NOT what Dr. Shoemaker would say to do, but I only have so much

money, and there aren't any clean places I can find to rent. My home is the

cleanest thing I can find, and I know what to avoid.

>

> I find I have to get out long enough to clear my head so that decisions can be

made and prioritized. Staying in the house makes decisions slow--brain fog

related.

>

> Staying home makes my back hurt. Getting out clears it up.

>

>

> My best to you, as I am still in the midst of all this myself.

>

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Good luck Peggy.

Many people to get better after they are out for a while. Several of my clients

have gotten well after visiting the Environmental Health Center in Dallas Texas

http://ehcd.com/

Good luck!!!!

>

> Thank you all for your information...I am so grateful to FINALLY feel I'm not

alone in all this.

>

> I think we've decided it's time to move on...now figuring how to do that. I

have been sleeping in a 2nd bedroom for now (have a log bed in ours & wonder if

it too is moldy?). Have thoughts or moving to our travel trailer but after

reading so much about cross-contamination, know we've contaminated it with the

items we've packed into it from our house. Not sure how to begin to find a safe

housing situation & not take a thing with us (no clothing, personal products,

computer, etc., etc., etc?). I think the TT may be the lesser of 2 evils for

now as I know when we have lived in it for many weeks, I always felt " better " ,

altho still reacting to everything else. When I came home this last time (2

months ago), I have seen a definate difference in my declining health.

>

> We have no income presently (left jobs to move & economy went to poop). I

feel unable to work at all presently & my husband is trying, but he's 60 yrs old

& nobody is hiring. I feel stuck in trying to find relief in health & have to

be careful it's affordable. We don't know anyone where we are living.

>

> Brain fog? My memory is horrible, confused & can't think straight most of the

time. I just rec'd the book, Mold Warriors but am afraid to read right now as

I'm so " low " I'm afraid I will see no way out & it will add to the misery. I

realize now that I lived in moldy houses for the last 20 years on & off....my

fears are that I am beyond recovery. I just want to be well.

>

> Thanks to all of you who have shared your information...I am digesting it all

as quickly as my mind will allow. I know I need to figure this out & get out

asap...not sure how to begin to pack & how to get rid of our belonginings but I

am blessed to have a place to share & get experiences of others. Thank you so

much.

>

> Peggy:)

>

>

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