CSM - Dr Shoemaker

[Guest guest]

I have never taken CSM, but I know people who swear by it. And yet, like

below, I have seen others who can't tolerate it at all. Jeanine and

others, why do you think that some can't tolerate it?

Could it be that for some it causes a severe Herxheimer Reaction? Could

it be that for some it causes too rapid of a " mold/toxin die off " ? What

happens if people start off at low doses and increase over time? I know that

with Sporonox, the above scenario is often the case. Could it be that the

same holds true for CSM?

Just questions from one who is self acknowledged to be ignorant of the

usage and effects of CSM, in individual cases.

Sharon K

In a message dated 11/4/2010 6:15:31 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

mopsyj77@... writes:

Following up on the recent comment, I am one that did not do well on CSM.

Within 2 or 3 days, I was at the Dr (and then the ER) bc my stomach was so

inflamed from the CSM. I felt horrible on it and have not attempted it

again.

He does prescribe something else for people who don't handle CSM well...I

cannot

recall what it is though.

[Guest guest]

I took CSM 4X a day for a year. Only problems I had were constipation,

bloating and some heartburn. All were not bad compared to how sick I was and

they symptoms got better with time. I was, however, extremely tired. More so

than when I started. I slept and slept and slept some more. It seemed like

all I could do. I have heard some people say that they feel worse before

they feel better while taking CSM. I always took Milk of Magnesea

(sp?) before going to bed which really helped with the bloating and

constipation and also drank lots and lots of water!

>>

I have never taken CSM, but I know people who swear by it. And yet, like

below, I have seen others who can't tolerate it at all. Jeanine and

others, why do you think that some can't tolerate it?

Could it be that for some it causes a severe Herxheimer Reaction? Could

it be that for some it causes too rapid of a " mold/toxin die off " ? What

happens if people start off at low doses and increase over time? I know

that

with Sporonox, the above scenario is often the case. Could it be that the

same holds true for CSM?

Just questions from one who is self acknowledged to be ignorant of the

usage and effects of CSM, in individual cases.

Sharon K

[Guest guest]

So, what is it about CSM that causes the digestive symptoms and the

tiredness? Is it the CSM itself, or is it the way each individual's " toxic "

body

reacts to CSM? Do people who have not experienced toxic exposure report

similar digestive reactions to it?

Sharon K

In a message dated 11/4/2010 8:59:07 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

ssr3351@... writes:

I took CSM 4X a day for a year. Only problems I had were constipation,

bloating and some heartburn. All were not bad compared to how sick I was

and

they symptoms got better with time. I was, however, extremely tired. More

so

than when I started. I slept and slept and slept some more. It seemed like

all I could do. I have heard some people say that they feel worse before

they feel better while taking CSM. I always took Milk of Magnesea

(sp?) before going to bed which really helped with the bloating and

constipation and also drank lots and lots of water!

>>

I have never taken CSM, but I know people who swear by it. And yet, like

below, I have seen others who can't tolerate it at all. Jeanine and

others, why do you think that some can't tolerate it?

Could it be that for some it causes a severe Herxheimer Reaction? Could

it be that for some it causes too rapid of a " mold/toxin die off " ? What

happens if people start off at low doses and increase over time? I know

that

with Sporonox, the above scenario is often the case. Could it be that the

same holds true for CSM?

Just questions from one who is self acknowledged to be ignorant of the

usage and effects of CSM, in individual cases.

Sharon K

[Guest guest]

How about Welchol tablets. They are similar to CSM. I don't think they

work as well but they can be take with food and don't upset the stomach or

intestinal tract. They may work for you and would be better than nothing.

>>

In my case the conditon of my digestive tract I think was very bad. This

can be due to exposure too or candida overgrowth that is very bad. It seemed

that the very tiny plastic fibers were very irritating to my digestive

tract caused vomiting. Lately I went back on and upped the dose and had

diahrea which I think was due to irritation of gi tract also.

[Guest guest]

Following up on the recent comment, I am one that did not do well on CSM.

Within 2 or 3 days, I was at the Dr (and then the ER) bc my stomach was so

inflamed from the CSM. I felt horrible on it and have not attempted it again.

He does prescribe something else for people who don't handle CSM well...I cannot

recall what it is though.

[Guest guest]

In my case the conditon of my digestive tract I think was very bad. This can be

due to exposure too or candida overgrowth that is very bad. It seemed that the

very tiny plastic fibers were very irritating to my digestive tract caused

vomiting. Lately I went back on and upped the dose and had diahrea which I

think was due to irritation of gi tract also.

>

> I have never taken CSM, but I know people who swear by it. And yet, like

> below, I have seen others who can't tolerate it at all. Jeanine and

> others, why do you think that some can't tolerate it?

>

[Guest guest]

Sharon, I startd out with a half scoop the first day, twice the second day,and

once the third day. my stomach started felling bad with the first dose and

continued felling unwell overall.

on the third day had a complete loss of balance, and very painful inflamed

bowels.

it seemed to cause a high inflammatory responce.

I fell that the damage to the stomach/ IT lineings that I suffered played a big

role.

I fell that my damaged BBB allowed easy access for inflammatory brain responce

but dont know why it mostly affected my balance,moreso than other brain

responces, a complete loss of balance, that was weird, that never even happened

during my exposure like that, stood up and just fell right over to my right

side, no control at all, was pretty scary.

I than realized it had frutose so got it without but just a tiny amount caused

that felling in my stomach again and I wasn't going there again so I give it up.

>

> I have never taken CSM, but I know people who swear by it. And yet, like

> below, I have seen others who can't tolerate it at all.

[Guest guest]

I also wondered if it may be due to some differences in bile influx/reflux, ?

side effects of high cholesterol medications

http://www.ehow.com/about_5280116_side-effects-high-cholesterol-medications.html

http://www.mahalo.com/cholestyramine

>

> So, what is it about CSM that causes the digestive symptoms and the

> tiredness? Is it the CSM itself, or is it the way each individual's " toxic "

body

> reacts to CSM? Do people who have not experienced toxic exposure report

> similar digestive reactions to it?

>

> Sharon K

>

>

> In a message dated 11/4/2010 8:59:07 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

> ssr3351@... writes:

>

> I took CSM 4X a day for a year. Only problems I had were constipation,

> bloating and some heartburn. All were not bad compared to how sick I was

> and

> they symptoms got better with time. I was, however, extremely tired. More

> so

> than when I started. I slept and slept and slept some more. It seemed like

> all I could do. I have heard some people say that they feel worse before

> they feel better while taking CSM. I always took Milk of Magnesea

> (sp?) before going to bed which really helped with the bloating and

> constipation and also drank lots and lots of water!

> >>

> I have never taken CSM, but I know people who swear by it. And yet, like

> below, I have seen others who can't tolerate it at all. Jeanine and

> others, why do you think that some can't tolerate it?

>

> Could it be that for some it causes a severe Herxheimer Reaction? Could

> it be that for some it causes too rapid of a " mold/toxin die off " ? What

> happens if people start off at low doses and increase over time? I know

> that

> with Sporonox, the above scenario is often the case. Could it be that the

> same holds true for CSM?

>

> Just questions from one who is self acknowledged to be ignorant of the

> usage and effects of CSM, in individual cases.

>

> Sharon K

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Says in the link that you sent, people with liver problems can't tolerate

drugs for high cholesterol. Wonder if that has anything to do with the

liver in a toxic person (for lack of a better term) already working overtime.

In a message dated 11/4/2010 5:36:47 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

jeaninem660@... writes:

I also wondered if it may be due to some differences in bile

influx/reflux, ?

side effects of high cholesterol medications

_http://www.ehow.com/about_5280116_side-effects-high-cholesterol-medications

..html_

(http://www.ehow.com/about_5280116_side-effects-high-cholesterol-medications.htm\

l)

_http://www.mahalo.com/cholestyramine_

(http://www.mahalo.com/cholestyramine)

--- In _ _

(mailto: ) , snk1955@... wrote:

>

> So, what is it about CSM that causes the digestive symptoms and the

> tiredness? Is it the CSM itself, or is it the way each individual's

" toxic " body

> reacts to CSM? Do people who have not experienced toxic exposure report

> similar digestive reactions to it?

>

> Sharon K

>

>

> In a message dated 11/4/2010 8:59:07 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

> ssr3351@... writes:

>

> I took CSM 4X a day for a year. Only problems I had were constipation,

> bloating and some heartburn. All were not bad compared to how sick I was

> and

> they symptoms got better with time. I was, however, extremely tired.

More

> so

> than when I started. I slept and slept and slept some more. It seemed

like

> all I could do. I have heard some people say that they feel worse before

> they feel better while taking CSM. I always took Milk of

Magnesea

> (sp?) before going to bed which really helped with the bloating and

> constipation and also drank lots and lots of water!

> >>

> I have never taken CSM, but I know people who swear by it. And yet, like

> below, I have seen others who can't tolerate it at all. Jeanine and

> others, why do you think that some can't tolerate it?

>

> Could it be that for some it causes a severe Herxheimer Reaction? Could

> it be that for some it causes too rapid of a " mold/toxin die off " ? What

> happens if people start off at low doses and increase over time? I know

> that

> with Sporonox, the above scenario is often the case. Could it be that

the

> same holds true for CSM?

>

> Just questions from one who is self acknowledged to be ignorant of the

> usage and effects of CSM, in individual cases.

>

> Sharon K

[Guest guest]

In my case, my body didn't like it from the start. It literally BLEW up my

intestine with air from the first glass of it. I was like a human balloon...and

it binds you up like you can't believe. My whole digestive track was a mess as a

result - I was in such pain. I tried to suck it up but by the time I went to my

local Dr, he sent me to the ER bc my pain was not normal. That is when they

said that the lining of my stomach was really inflamed. Otherw swear by it - so

I don't want anyone to necessarily rule it out based on my experience. I have

to be gluten free and Dr Shoemaker even got me no gluten CSM....so keep in mind

that the regular formula (unless you ask) will have gluten in it. ASK LOTS OF

QUESTIONS...and try it if you think it can help.

>

> I have never taken CSM, but I know people who swear by it. And yet, like

> below, I have seen others who can't tolerate it at all. Jeanine and

> others, why do you think that some can't tolerate it?

>

> Could it be that for some it causes a severe Herxheimer Reaction? Could

> it be that for some it causes too rapid of a " mold/toxin die off " ? What

> happens if people start off at low doses and increase over time? I know that

> with Sporonox, the above scenario is often the case. Could it be that the

> same holds true for CSM?

>

> Just questions from one who is self acknowledged to be ignorant of the

> usage and effects of CSM, in individual cases.

>

> Sharon K

>

>

> In a message dated 11/4/2010 6:15:31 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

> mopsyj77@... writes:

>

> Following up on the recent comment, I am one that did not do well on CSM.

> Within 2 or 3 days, I was at the Dr (and then the ER) bc my stomach was so

> inflamed from the CSM. I felt horrible on it and have not attempted it

> again.

> He does prescribe something else for people who don't handle CSM well...I

> cannot

> recall what it is though.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

If you can't take CSM you can tale Welchol, you take it with meals, instead of

before. I take it because CSM hurts my throat, which is already damaged by

mycotoxins.

>

> Following up on the recent comment, I am one that did not do well on CSM.

> Within 2 or 3 days, I was at the Dr (and then the ER) bc my stomach was so

> inflamed from the CSM. I felt horrible on it and have not attempted it again.

> He does prescribe something else for people who don't handle CSM well...I

cannot

> recall what it is though.

>

[Guest guest]

Sharon, yes, that might be it, it is supposed to bind bile, my liver use to hurt

constantly after exposure than would start hurting again with re-exposures,

chemicals,ect. there is a valve,bile duct, cant think of the medical term off

hand, that can be damaged allowing bile flow into the stomach,while most talk

about acid reflux symptoms my symptoms seem to fit more with influx, along with

this you can have decreased bile flow where it's supposed to be, which could

cause some problems with the intended use of CSM, and maybe other binders as

well.

>

> Says in the link that you sent, people with liver problems can't tolerate

> drugs for high cholesterol. Wonder if that has anything to do with the

> liver in a toxic person (for lack of a better term) already working overtime.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

sorry Sharon, mind pulled to a few different directions right now, not felling

to great sence I turned on the heat, bothers sinuses.

my blocked tear duct has fluid retention again so blur in veiw and pain is

distracting, I've learned if I gently rub on it it well break lose but have to

do several times before it stops swelling, the clear watery fluid that comes out

is very sticky and puss also, what keeps blocking the alreadty damaged tear duck

and where it comes from is something I'd like to know, it hasn't acted up for a

while, but never heald completely dont know if it's some comeing from somewhere

within, mold colonization, or something getting in by back flow from

exterior. hard to deal with more eye problems on top of what I already deal

with. sick of it. my left eye is diffenitly paying a price because of my WDB

exposure.

to much to think about, not enough time in a day.

I just dont know anymore, tired of everything being so damnn difficult.

> >

> > Says in the link that you sent, people with liver problems can't tolerate

> > drugs for high cholesterol. Wonder if that has anything to do with the

> > liver in a toxic person (for lack of a better term) already working

overtime.

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I just dont know Sharon, I thought maybe it had something to do with the

pituitary, but I dont think so. my first thought was that the cyst type sore in

my stomach or maybe other unfound cysts/polops in the IT, but maybe it reall

just comes down to liver damage and function. possably a higher sensitivity in

the stomach, bowels.

>

> Says in the link that you sent, people with liver problems can't tolerate

> drugs for high cholesterol. Wonder if that has anything to do with the

> liver in a toxic person (for lack of a better term) already working overtime.

>

>

> In a message dated 11/4/2010 5:36:47 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

> jeaninem660@... writes:

>

> I also wondered if it may be due to some differences in bile

> influx/reflux, ?

>

> side effects of high cholesterol medications

> _http://www.ehow.com/about_5280116_side-effects-high-cholesterol-medications

> .html_

>

(http://www.ehow.com/about_5280116_side-effects-high-cholesterol-medications.htm\

l)

>

> _http://www.mahalo.com/cholestyramine_

> (http://www.mahalo.com/cholestyramine)

>

>

[Guest guest]

I couldn't tolerate the CSM either. I used welchol and that seemed to work

with no GI pain. I had my gall bladder removed and my PCP isn't sure about

restarting me on welchol (these meds supposedly work in the gall bladder?).

[Guest guest]

What goes thru that ole bile duct to the " waste management " organs appears

to play a significant role in illness, seems to me. It makes sense to me

that if you do something to overload the garbage truck on the way to the

dump, some of that trash is going to spill out along the route. Dr.

Marinkovich used to explain it from the stand point of macrophanges that can't

keep

up to get rid of antigens causing a circulating immune complex.

The bile duct being littered with trash seems logical to me as causing

inflammation - from toxin removing aids doing their job a little too well.

Check this out, Jeanine. The role of nitric oxide in bile duct

inflammation.

_Contribution of nitric oxide to the pathogenesis of cirrhotic

cardiomyopathy in bile duct–ligated rats_

(http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(00)70180-6/abstract)

Its ALL connected!

_

[Guest guest]

Be careful.  Welchol has aspartame.

http://www.rxlist.com/welchol-drug.htm

Anything w aspartame gives me a headache & instant anxiety.

Kathy

From: carondeen <kdeanstudios@...>

Subject: [] Re: CSM - Dr Shoemaker

If you can't take CSM you can tale Welchol, you take it with meals,

instead of before.

[Guest guest]

http://www.rxlist.com/questran-drug.html

Is this the same as CSM?. It has aspartame, maltodextrin, red dyes. I

Why do they put aspartame in it? Has maltodextrin - gluten ingredient. Might

have celiac.

 I'm sorry I can't risk it.

I had a bad reaction to regluar rx Nystatin. Was more than reg. die off.

I did fine w compounded. No dyes, etc.

 I think I'm done w reg. meds. Too many unneeded ingredients.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

The CSM I get from Target do not have aspartame. I know that the LIGHT CSM

does have aspartame but mine comes in a can (about the size of a can of

peanuts).

_http://www.rxlist.com/questran-drug.html_

(http://www.rxlist.com/questran-drug.html)

>>>

Is this the same as CSM?. It has aspartame, maltodextrin, red dyes. I

Why do they put aspartame in it? Has maltodextrin - gluten ingredient.

Might have celiac.

I'm sorry I can't risk it.

I had a bad reaction to regluar rx Nystatin. Was more than reg. die off.

I did fine w compounded. No dyes, etc.

I think I'm done w reg. meds. Too many unneeded ingredients.

[Guest guest]

seems to me that if you cant tolerate CSM because of stomach hypersensitivity or

whatever reason, you wouldn't tolerate welchol either, not sure, has anyone out

been throught that?

> >

> > Following up on the recent comment, I am one that did not do well on CSM.

> > Within 2 or 3 days, I was at the Dr (and then the ER) bc my stomach was so

> > inflamed from the CSM. I felt horrible on it and have not attempted it

again.

> > He does prescribe something else for people who don't handle CSM well...I

cannot

> > recall what it is though.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

that sounds about right to me Sharon, mainly because I had the same problem with

the antifungal nasal spray going to my head.

affected me in a different way but still went to head.

I just dont know how to get around this problem with these meds affecting me

like this. I can suffer through pain, pretty good at doing that but not when it

comes to my head,

I just dont know how to get around that, through it or past it. only thing I

know is to try again with the smallest dosage , maybe even skiping days between.

?

ps, love the kids vedio.

>

> What goes thru that ole bile duct to the " waste management " organs appears

> to play a significant role in illness, seems to me. It makes sense to me

> that if you do something to overload the garbage truck on the way to the

> dump, some of that trash is going to spill out along the route. Dr.

> Marinkovich used to explain it from the stand point of macrophanges that

can't keep

> up to get rid of antigens causing a circulating immune complex.

>

> The bile duct being littered with trash seems logical to me as causing

> inflammation - from toxin removing aids doing their job a little too well.

>

> Check this out, Jeanine. The role of nitric oxide in bile duct

> inflammation.

> _Contribution of nitric oxide to the pathogenesis of cirrhotic

> cardiomyopathy in bile duct†" ligated rats_

> (http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(00)70180-6/abstract)

>

>

> Its ALL connected!

> _

[Guest guest]

I've know that the LIGHT CSM that comes in the small individual packs has

aspertame but I don't think Welchol does.

Be careful. Welchol has aspartame.

[Guest guest]

>

>

> http://www.rxlist.com/questran-drug.html

>

> Is this the same as CSM?.

>

Yes Questran is CSM. They probably add aspartame to make it more palatable.

[Guest guest]

They dont work in the gall bladder, they absorb cholestarol in the intestines

= = = =

>

> I couldn't tolerate the CSM either. I used welchol and that seemed to work

> with no GI pain. I had my gall bladder removed and my PCP isn't sure about

> restarting me on welchol (these meds supposedly work in the gall bladder?).

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I was told in order to get CSM without aspertame it had to be compounded by a

pharmacist also someone sent me an email yesterday stating that if you've been

exposed to mold more than 6 months CSM wouldn't have much of an effect. I don't

know how true any of this is as I only scanned through the email

>

>

> I've know that the LIGHT CSM that comes in the small individual packs has

> aspertame but I don't think Welchol does.

>

>

> Be careful. Welchol has aspartame.

>

>

>

>

>