Re: Re: Mold in my aprtment? help interpret mold test that was done by a

[Guest guest]

HI Jack,

Do I have your permission to share this e-mail with Chris's doctors? I

think it is a nice succinct explanation of what you looking for & why in

the investigation of our house's health problems.

Thanks, Sue

>I must step in again. All of you are centered on the molds and

>mycotoxins. These contaminants are only part of the problem. Bacteria,

>both Gram negative and positive, are also present in moisture damaged

>structures. Why do I mention this? The Gram positive organisms are

>also dangerous and their toxins interact with the mold mycotoxins. The

>group of gram positive bacteria (Actinobacteria) that need to be

>identified in the indoor environments are: Mycobacterium, Streptomyces,

>Corynebacterium, Nocardia, Propionibacterium (Both thermophilic and

>mesophilic species). As an example of the potential health problems from

>these bacteria, let us take the genus, Mycobacterium. It contains well

>over 150 different species. The most famous are M. tuberculosis and M.

>leprosi. However, there is also a group of nontuberculin Mycobacterium

>(NTM) that are responsible for an illness called Mycobacterium Avium

>Complex (MAC). Below is a link to the American Thoracic Society review

>of MAC written in 2007. I suggest all of you carefully read it. One

>must culture for the presence of these bacteria. The most reliable

>method is bulk samples. Culture for the bacteria at 55 and 37 degrees

>centigrade. The reason for this is that some of these bacteria are

>thermophilic and are more dangerous than the mesophilic bacteria. Also,

>the gram negative bacteria shed endotoxins. Endotoxins are known to act

>synergistically with mycotoxins. Endotoxins should also be tested.

>

>Above, there is a series of comments regarding Sue and her son. I have

>been to their home. A visual inspection of the home revealed little if

>any information with respect to mold. However, I did see growth that

>appeared to be Actinobacteria. I am testing for the presence of these

>gram positive organisms as well as molds and mycotoxins (HEPA filter of

>the HVAC system). We will have to wait for the outcome of the mold/

>mycotoxin and gram negative/positive cultures for me to make further

>statements.

>

>The Actinobacteria are difficult to culture from human samples (sputum,

>biopsies, etc.). The only reliable testing available to identify an

>infections is PCR 16s ribosomal DNA.

>

>Finally, to demonstrate how dangerous some species of Mycobacterium can

>be I will briefly discuss two species: ulcerans and marinum. Ulcerans

>is endemic to the Tropics of the world. Marinum is found in the waters

>of the World. The latest reports on Marinum is that it is present in

>the coastal waters of Florida, Gulf Mexico and California (probably

>other waters which have not been tested). Marinum loves water and is

>also responsible for infections in sport fishermen (fresh and salt

>water) as well as individuals who have aquariums. These two species

>produce a toxin, Mycolactone, that causes necrotic lesions of the skin

>and erosion and damage to underlying skeletal muscle. Scientists in

>this field are slowly identifying other species that have the genes to

>produce Mycolactone. Only time will tell.

>

>

>Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

>Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

>www.drthrasher.org

>toxicologist1@...

>Off: 916-745-4703

>Cell: 575-937-1150

>

>

> L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

>Trauma Specialist

>sandracrawley@...

>916-745-4703 - Off

>775-309-3994 - Cell

>

>

>

>

>This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

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>

>http://171.66.122.149/cgi/reprint/175/4/367

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dr. Thrasher,

Thank you for this explanation of the added possible contaminants that can occur

if wdb. To your knowledge, would you say that a CIH would be able to conduct

these kind of tests to determine if there is any bacteria in the home? Or is

this something that only a toxicologist like yourself can do?

Is there a way to determine if the bacteria has or has not derived from water

damage? Are there other contanminents that can result from wdb's such as viruses

or other toxins that should be tested for other than mold and mycotoxins?

And do you feel that the kind of remediation that one would have done in a home

that is based on the techniques used to remediate molds, would be as effective

in ridding the home of these other offending contanminants? Or are there other

specific procedures that would need to be added?

Thanks very much for any feedback you can share,Sam 

 

I must step in again. All of you are centered on the molds and

mycotoxins. These contaminants are only part of the problem. Bacteria, both

Gram negative and positive, are also present in moisture damaged structures. 

[Guest guest]

Sam,

In addition to how Dr Thrasher responds, I'd like to make one

point.

Not all CIH's are automatically qualified to do any of this testing.

While they are usually the best qualified to execute testing

procedures they are trained in occupational and industrial

hygiene, not residential. Until very recently their training for

certification included nothing on mold and moisture or

residences. Therefore, interpretation of results tend to be a

comparison to occupational exposure levels and regulations.

None of which exist for moisture, mold, bacteria, or any of the

secretions and emanations Dr Thrasher cautions us about.

Many CIHs have now aquired that additional training so each

person's qualifications need to be checked.

Same is true for Indoor Environmental Consultants or anyone

else claiming to be qualified. Not all are properly trained and none

of the above guarantees ethics. All must interpret results within a

greater context based on inspection etc and not just by numbers

alone or simple comparison of inside to outside.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

Dr. Thrasher,

Thank you for this explanation of the added possible contaminants that

can occur if wdb. To your knowledge, would you say that a CIH would be

able to conduct these kind of tests to determine if there is any bacteria in

the home? Or is this something that only a toxicologist like yourself can

do?

Is there a way to determine if the bacteria has or has not derived from

water damage? Are there other contanminents that can result from

wdb's such as viruses or other toxins that should be tested for other than

mold and mycotoxins?

And do you feel that the kind of remediation that one would have done in

a home that is based on the techniques used to remediate molds, would

be as effective in ridding the home of these other offending

contanminants? Or are there other specific procedures that would need

to be added?

Thanks very much for any feedback you can share,Sam

--- On Sun, 3/14/10, Jack Thrasher, Ph.D. <toxicologist1@...>

wrote:

I must step in again. All of you are centered on the molds and

mycotoxins. These contaminants are only part of the problem. Bacteria,

both Gram negative and positive, are also present in moisture damaged

structures.