Guest guest Posted December 24, 2008 Report Share Posted December 24, 2008 I don't doubt a 34 lb gain. It would be pretty easy to carb deplete/dehydrate for the " before " pics and then supercompensate for the " after " . I've gained 20lbs overnight following weigh-ins for powerlifting meets without drugs. I know guys who with diruetics, have lost and gained back 30 within 72 hours. Add in a creatine load, and you could manage a 34lb gain in 1 week. Your body comp reading would go down because you would be gaining muscle glycogen and water while keeping the same amount of bodyfat. Now as far as 34 lbs of actual muscle gain? Gotta call bravo sierra on this one. The Colorado Experiment was dubious at best by most accounts and this guy is no Casey Viator. Dave Kirschen Edgewater NJ =============================== To: Supertraining@...: daflory@...: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 08:00:32 -0600Subject: Re: Geek to Freak?? > Please take a look at this link.>> http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2007/04/29/from-geek-to-freak-how-i-gained-\ 34-lbs-of-muscle-in-4-weeks/#%20more-54>> He is a well-know author (not fitness industry) who claims to have > gained 34 lbs of muscle in just 4 weeks using high intensity, low > volume low frequency training methods. He claims that Dr. Peggy > Plato at the Human Performance Laboratory at the San State > University validated his results.Two comments:1. I've never heard of anyone ever managing that much muscle gain that quickly, even with steroids.2. Does that sound just a little bit like Super-Slow (maybe " medium slow " at 5 second reps)?Fair winds and happy bytes, Dave Flory, Flower Mound, TX, U.S.A.--Speak softly, study Aikido, & you won't need to carry a big stick!Photos @ <http://homepage.mac.com/dflory> =============================== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2008 Report Share Posted December 24, 2008 > He is a well-know author (not fitness industry) who claims to have gained 34 > lbs of muscle in just 4 weeks using high intensity, low volume low frequency > training methods. > I knew a geek to freak as well, who gained 35 lbs of muscle in 6 > weeks. The secret was a good training and nutrition program... and > 1000-2000 mg of testosterone a week along with insulin and growth > hormone. Magic! > > Cynical in Toronto, ON Greetings cynic, This smacks 0f the old Nautilus Arthur " Colorado " experiment where Casey Viator did the same thing -- after almost dying and having lost 50 muscular lbs. At one point I slobbed down about 35 lbs and much to my amazement , drinking raw milk, gained 20 lbs in 2-3 weeks. No big deal really. With steroids I would have probably gained 40. The more things change the more they stay the same. Jerry Telle Lakewood CO USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Ed, No, I don't think it's possible. I've seen Ellington Darden's claims (e.g.,The New High Intensity Training, p.201) and, frankly, I don't believe those claims either). Based on the research I have seen, Lyle Mc is credible when he says, " First year, you might see 20-25 lbs in a male trainee doing it right. Second year perhaps half that (10-12 pound more). Third year, half again (5-6 pounds). At that point (about 40 lbs lean body mass gained), you're near your genetic limits and you'll be fighting to significant amounts much past that. " http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass\ -gain.html I seem to recall someone telling me that Arnold Schwarzenegger, in one of his books, said that an experienced, drug free athlete who gains 5 lbs of lean muscle mass in a year is doing well. Right now, I'm doing some research on the relation between nutrition and muscle gain. You might enjoy this quote from Conan s about bodybuilder Vic s: *My old training partner Mr Universe Wingett used to say - if you want to look like Victor s then you have to eat like Victor s. Back then Victor s was the biggest thing the bodybuilding world had ever seen and he used to eat a truck load. <#_ftn1> One friend was with him on his tour of Australia and they went to get something to eat. Victor s grabbed 10 meat pies as a snack, then he ordered pastries on top. For a meal my friends (IFBB Judges at the time) said he ate 1kg of rice at each sitting and a great slab of meat with it. Now that is a bodybuilding diet … If you want to get big you need to EAT BIG.* I don't know about " 10 meat pies, " but there does seem to be some consensus that one has to " overfeed " and accept some fat to gain muscle, then diet down to lose the fat. However, I'm interested in a study by Demling and DeSanti that reports simultaneous muscle gain and fat loss in overweight police officers. H. Demling, DeSanti. Effect of a Hypocaloric Diet, Increased Protein Intake and Resistance Training on Lean Mass Gains and Fat Mass Loss in Overweight Police Officers. *ls of Nutrition & Metabolism*2000;44:21-29 (DOI: 10.1159/000012817). http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowAbstract & ArtikelNr=\ 12817 & Ausgabe=224619 & ProduktNr=223977 I've been trying to get a copy of the full study. The sample sizes were small, but it's the only " credible " study I have seen where people were reported (1) to have gained muscle mass on a reduced calorie diet and (2) to have gained muscle and lost fat simultaneously. If anyone has information in that area, or a full copy of the Demling DeSanti study, I'd love to see it. Pitruzzello, Ph.D. Chicago, IL > Supertrainers, > > Please take a look at this link. > > > http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2007/04/29/from-geek-to-freak-how-i-gained-\ 34-lbs-of-muscle-in-4-weeks/#%20more-54 > > He is a well-know author (not fitness industry) who claims to have gained > 34 lbs of muscle in just 4 weeks using high intensity, low volume low > frequency training methods. He claims that Dr. Peggy Plato at the Human > Performance Laboratory at the San State University validated his > results. > > Does anyone here think this is even possible? > > Have a safe and happy holiday season, > > Ed White > Sandwich, MA USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 , The subject did say that he started the program at an unnaturally low weight for himself due to travel, focus on martial arts and diet. A good 10-15 lbs or so might have just been getting his body back to his normal weight and the balance from heavy training, protein, creatine, etc. He claims no steroids were involved. I suppose if we starved Arnold down from 225 to 185 and then turned him loose in the food line and gym he could have put on 40 lbs of muscle in a year. Ed White Sandwich, MA USA Subject: Re: Geek to Freak?? To: Supertraining Date: Sunday, January 4, 2009, 8:50 PM Ed, No, I don't think it's possible. I've seen Ellington Darden's claims (e.g.,The New High Intensity Training, p.201) and, frankly, I don't believe those claims either). Based on the research I have seen, Lyle Mc is credible when he says, " First year, you might see 20-25 lbs in a male trainee doing it right. Second year perhaps half that (10-12 pound more). Third year, half again (5-6 pounds). At that point (about 40 lbs lean body mass gained), you're near your genetic limits and you'll be fighting to significant amounts much past that. " http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass\ -gain.html I seem to recall someone telling me that Arnold Schwarzenegger, in one of his books, said that an experienced, drug free athlete who gains 5 lbs of lean muscle mass in a year is doing well. Right now, I'm doing some research on the relation between nutrition and muscle gain. You might enjoy this quote from Conan s about bodybuilder Vic s: *My old training partner Mr Universe Wingett used to say - if you want to look like Victor s then you have to eat like Victor s. Back then Victor s was the biggest thing the bodybuilding world had ever seen and he used to eat a truck load. <#_ftn1> One friend was with him on his tour of Australia and they went to get something to eat. Victor s grabbed 10 meat pies as a snack, then he ordered pastries on top. For a meal my friends (IFBB Judges at the time) said he ate 1kg of rice at each sitting and a great slab of meat with it. Now that is a bodybuilding diet … If you want to get big you need to EAT BIG.* I don't know about " 10 meat pies, " but there does seem to be some consensus that one has to " overfeed " and accept some fat to gain muscle, then diet down to lose the fat. However, I'm interested in a study by Demling and DeSanti that reports simultaneous muscle gain and fat loss in overweight police officers. H. Demling, DeSanti. Effect of a Hypocaloric Diet, Increased Protein Intake and Resistance Training on Lean Mass Gains and Fat Mass Loss in Overweight Police Officers. *ls of Nutrition & Metabolism*2000;44:21-29 (DOI: 10.1159/000012817). http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowAbstract & ArtikelNr=\ 12817 & Ausgabe=224619 & ProduktNr=223977 I've been trying to get a copy of the full study. The sample sizes were small, but it's the only " credible " study I have seen where people were reported (1) to have gained muscle mass on a reduced calorie diet and (2) to have gained muscle and lost fat simultaneously. If anyone has information in that area, or a full copy of the Demling DeSanti study, I'd love to see it. ======================= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Dr. Pitruzzello: I can tell you first hand that I gained 35 pounds in a year while in the USMC. Although during the time this happened I went from running 80-100 miles per week and to running a maximum of 15 miles per week and started doing lighter cleans, snatches, and heavy squats, deadlifts, and sprinting. In the first month of transistion I gained about 15lbs, which I know wasn't all muscle, but at 2 months had gained 20 lbs. Of course at 19-20 years of age at the time I was still anabolic machine in terms of hormone production which helps. There is no doubt the change in training, my endocrine profile at the time, and my appetite contributed to this. In a little over 2.5 years of doing this training I went from 145 lbs to 205 lbs and back down to 185-190 lbs so I could run the 3 mile run of my final PFT in less than 18:00 by upping my running mileage above 40 miles which quickly let me shed weight. I doubt anyone would have considered my diet as healthy either as athletes should worry more about calories consumed not where they come from as long as they are getting proper vitamin and minerals which is hard not to do when you consume at least 4000-8000 calories a day. Regards, s Champaign, IL USA http://Sprenten.com On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 7:50 PM, Pitruzzello wrote: > Ed, > > No, I don't think it's possible. I've seen Ellington Darden's claims > (e.g.,The New High Intensity Training, p.201) and, frankly, I don't believe > those claims either). Based on the research I have seen, Lyle Mc is > credible when he says, " First year, you might see 20-25 lbs in a male > trainee doing it right. Second year perhaps half that (10-12 pound more). > Third year, half again (5-6 pounds). At that point (about 40 lbs lean body > mass gained), you're near your genetic limits and you'll be fighting to > significant amounts much past that. " > > http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass\ -gain.html > > I seem to recall someone telling me that Arnold Schwarzenegger, in one of > his books, said that an experienced, drug free athlete who gains 5 lbs of > lean muscle mass in a year is doing well. > > Right now, I'm doing some research on the relation between nutrition and > muscle gain. You might enjoy this quote from Conan s about > bodybuilder Vic s: > > *My old training partner Mr Universe Wingett used to say - if you > want to look like Victor s then you have to eat like Victor > s. > Back then Victor s was the biggest thing the bodybuilding world had > ever seen and he used to eat a truck load. <#_ftn1> One friend was with him > on his tour of Australia and they went to get something to eat. Victor > s grabbed 10 meat pies as a snack, then he ordered pastries on top. > For a meal my friends (IFBB Judges at the time) said he ate 1kg of rice at > each sitting and a great slab of meat with it. Now that is a bodybuilding > diet … If you want to get big you need to EAT BIG.* > > I don't know about " 10 meat pies, " but there does seem to be some consensus > that one has to " overfeed " and accept some fat to gain muscle, then diet > down to lose the fat. However, I'm interested in a study by Demling and > DeSanti that reports simultaneous muscle gain and fat loss in overweight > police officers. > > > H. Demling, DeSanti. Effect of a Hypocaloric Diet, Increased > Protein Intake and Resistance Training on Lean Mass Gains and Fat Mass Loss > in Overweight Police Officers. *ls of Nutrition & > Metabolism*2000;44:21-29 (DOI: 10.1159/000012817). > > http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowAbstract & ArtikelNr=\ 12817 & Ausgabe=224619 & ProduktNr=223977 > > I've been trying to get a copy of the full study. The sample sizes were > small, but it's the only " credible " study I have seen where people were > reported (1) to have gained muscle mass on a reduced calorie diet and (2) > to > have gained muscle and lost fat simultaneously. If anyone has information > in that area, or a full copy of the Demling DeSanti study, I'd love to see > it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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