Guest guest Posted November 8, 2010 Report Share Posted November 8, 2010 Right, thanks. I'm aware antibiotics kill bacteria - e.g., in our GI tract as you mention. But why do antibiotics - some evidently - adversely affect our nerves? What specifically in the antibiotic is killing our nerves? > > > > > > May cause joint, muscle, or tendon pain or rupture, nerve pain (burning, electrical sensations, tingling), muscle weakness http://www.medicationsense.com/articles/july_sept_03/reactions_cipro_other.html > > > > > > > > > Dizziness, headaches, seizures and psychosis are well known " adverse " effects of these antibiotics. What is not considered common in the literature, but is outlined in many patient forums and in a medical study of the side effects, is the various other neurological symptoms of these drugs, that can occur in as many as7% of patients. These symptoms include pins and needles, numbness, tingling, muscle and joint pain, palpitations, malaise, panic attacks, and anxiety. (Peripheral Neuropathy Associated with Fluoroquinolones, Jay S. Cohen, The ls of Pharmacotherapy, 2001 December, Volume 35) > > > http://thyroid.about.com/cs/thyroiddrugs/a/sideeffects.htm > > > > > > > > > Neurologic: Peripheral neuropathy, which may become severe or irreversible, has occurred. Fatalities have been reported. Conditions such as renal impairment (creatinine clearance under 60 mL per minute or clinically significant elevated serum creatinine), anemia, diabetes mellitus, electrolyte imbalance, vitamin B deficiency, and debilitating diseases may increase the possibility of peripheral neuropathy. http://www.rxlist.com/macrobid-drug.htm > > > > > > > > > ACUTE, SUBACUTE, OR CHRONIC PULMONARY REACTIONS HAVE BEEN OBSERVED IN PATIENTS TREATED WITH NITROFURANTOIN. IF THESE REACTIONS OCCUR, MACROBID SHOULD BE DISCONTINUED AND APPROPRIATE MEASURES TAKEN. REPORTS HAVE CITED PULMONARY REACTIONS AS A CONTRIBUTING CAUSE OF DEATH. > > > > > > CHRONIC PULMONARY REACTIONS (DIFFUSE INTERSTITIAL PNEUMONITIS OR PULMONARY FIBROSIS, OR BOTH) CAN DEVELOP INSIDIOUSLY. THESE REACTIONS OCCUR RARELY AND GENERALLY IN PATIENTS RECEIVING THERAPY FOR SIX MONTHS OR LONGER. CLOSE MONITORING OF THE PULMONARY CONDITION OF PATIENTS RECEIVING LONG-TERM THERAPY IS WARRANTED AND REQUIRES THAT THE BENEFITS OF THERAPY BE WEIGHED AGAINST POTENTIAL RISKS. http://www.rxlist.com/macrobid-drug.htm# > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2010 Report Share Posted November 8, 2010 I wouldn't say it's killing nerves....but what is most probably happening is that gut imbalance causes inflammation systemically. Inflammation causes lots of pain as well as immune dysfunction issues. So my thought is that's what's causing the pain. nancy j. Help TACA win $50,000. Please vote every day in November. http://www.refresheverything.com/tacarealhelpnow Need help now? http://www.talkaboutcuringautism.org/contact/real-help-now-live-chat.htm From: S <augold123@...> Subject: Re: Antibiotics Date: Monday, November 8, 2010, 8:22 AM  Right, thanks. I'm aware antibiotics kill bacteria - e.g., in our GI tract as you mention. But why do antibiotics - some evidently - adversely affect our nerves? What specifically in the antibiotic is killing our nerves? > > > > > > May cause joint, muscle, or tendon pain or rupture, nerve pain (burning, electrical sensations, tingling), muscle weakness http://www.medicationsense.com/articles/july_sept_03/reactions_cipro_other.html > > > > > > > > > Dizziness, headaches, seizures and psychosis are well known " adverse " effects of these antibiotics. What is not considered common in the literature, but is outlined in many patient forums and in a medical study of the side effects, is the various other neurological symptoms of these drugs, that can occur in as many as7% of patients. These symptoms include pins and needles, numbness, tingling, muscle and joint pain, palpitations, malaise, panic attacks, and anxiety. (Peripheral Neuropathy Associated with Fluoroquinolones, Jay S. Cohen, The ls of Pharmacotherapy, 2001 December, Volume 35) > > > http://thyroid.about.com/cs/thyroiddrugs/a/sideeffects.htm > > > > > > > > > Neurologic: Peripheral neuropathy, which may become severe or irreversible, has occurred. Fatalities have been reported. Conditions such as renal impairment (creatinine clearance under 60 mL per minute or clinically significant elevated serum creatinine), anemia, diabetes mellitus, electrolyte imbalance, vitamin B deficiency, and debilitating diseases may increase the possibility of peripheral neuropathy. http://www.rxlist.com/macrobid-drug.htm > > > > > > > > > ACUTE, SUBACUTE, OR CHRONIC PULMONARY REACTIONS HAVE BEEN OBSERVED IN PATIENTS TREATED WITH NITROFURANTOIN. IF THESE REACTIONS OCCUR, MACROBID SHOULD BE DISCONTINUED AND APPROPRIATE MEASURES TAKEN. REPORTS HAVE CITED PULMONARY REACTIONS AS A CONTRIBUTING CAUSE OF DEATH. > > > > > > CHRONIC PULMONARY REACTIONS (DIFFUSE INTERSTITIAL PNEUMONITIS OR PULMONARY FIBROSIS, OR BOTH) CAN DEVELOP INSIDIOUSLY. THESE REACTIONS OCCUR RARELY AND GENERALLY IN PATIENTS RECEIVING THERAPY FOR SIX MONTHS OR LONGER. CLOSE MONITORING OF THE PULMONARY CONDITION OF PATIENTS RECEIVING LONG-TERM THERAPY IS WARRANTED AND REQUIRES THAT THE BENEFITS OF THERAPY BE WEIGHED AGAINST POTENTIAL RISKS. http://www.rxlist.com/macrobid-drug.htm# > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2010 Report Share Posted November 8, 2010 The risk with Cipro (and other fluoroquinolones) is not just loss of good bacteria in the GI tract. With this line of antibiotics, there is a risk of peripheral neuropathy, among other things.  I'm not sure if doctors know WHY there has been nerve damage in some rare cases with this type of antibiotic, but there are some reported cases, which is why the labeling was changed in 2004 to include a warning. Here's an excerpt from the FDA letter...  http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/appletter/2004/19537s053,054,20780\ s017,018ltr.pdf  Peripheral neuropathy: Rare cases of sensory or sensorimotor axonal polyneuropathy affecting small and/or large axons resulting in paresthesias, hypoesthesias, dysesthesias and weakness have been reported in patients receiving quinolones, including ciprofloxacin. Ciprofloxacin should be discontinued if the patient experiences symptoms of neuropathy including pain, burning, tingling, numbness, and/or weakness, or is found to have deficits in light touch, pain, temperature, position sense, vibratory sensation, and/or motor strength in order to prevent the development of an irreversible condition.  From: S <augold123@...> Subject: Re: Antibiotics Date: Monday, November 8, 2010, 8:22 AM  Right, thanks. I'm aware antibiotics kill bacteria - e.g., in our GI tract as you mention. But why do antibiotics - some evidently - adversely affect our nerves? What specifically in the antibiotic is killing our nerves? > > > > > > May cause joint, muscle, or tendon pain or rupture, nerve pain (burning, electrical sensations, tingling), muscle weakness http://www.medicationsense.com/articles/july_sept_03/reactions_cipro_other.html > > > > > > > > > Dizziness, headaches, seizures and psychosis are well known " adverse " effects of these antibiotics. What is not considered common in the literature, but is outlined in many patient forums and in a medical study of the side effects, is the various other neurological symptoms of these drugs, that can occur in as many as7% of patients. These symptoms include pins and needles, numbness, tingling, muscle and joint pain, palpitations, malaise, panic attacks, and anxiety. (Peripheral Neuropathy Associated with Fluoroquinolones, Jay S. Cohen, The ls of Pharmacotherapy, 2001 December, Volume 35) > > > http://thyroid.about.com/cs/thyroiddrugs/a/sideeffects.htm > > > > > > > > > Neurologic: Peripheral neuropathy, which may become severe or irreversible, has occurred. Fatalities have been reported. Conditions such as renal impairment (creatinine clearance under 60 mL per minute or clinically significant elevated serum creatinine), anemia, diabetes mellitus, electrolyte imbalance, vitamin B deficiency, and debilitating diseases may increase the possibility of peripheral neuropathy. http://www.rxlist.com/macrobid-drug.htm > > > > > > > > > ACUTE, SUBACUTE, OR CHRONIC PULMONARY REACTIONS HAVE BEEN OBSERVED IN PATIENTS TREATED WITH NITROFURANTOIN. IF THESE REACTIONS OCCUR, MACROBID SHOULD BE DISCONTINUED AND APPROPRIATE MEASURES TAKEN. REPORTS HAVE CITED PULMONARY REACTIONS AS A CONTRIBUTING CAUSE OF DEATH. > > > > > > CHRONIC PULMONARY REACTIONS (DIFFUSE INTERSTITIAL PNEUMONITIS OR PULMONARY FIBROSIS, OR BOTH) CAN DEVELOP INSIDIOUSLY. THESE REACTIONS OCCUR RARELY AND GENERALLY IN PATIENTS RECEIVING THERAPY FOR SIX MONTHS OR LONGER. CLOSE MONITORING OF THE PULMONARY CONDITION OF PATIENTS RECEIVING LONG-TERM THERAPY IS WARRANTED AND REQUIRES THAT THE BENEFITS OF THERAPY BE WEIGHED AGAINST POTENTIAL RISKS. http://www.rxlist.com/macrobid-drug.htm# > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 The following is a major simplification, and has been dredged up from my far past. I hope Holly will fill in where this is lacking ... EVERYTHING we take in, whether it's food, happy drugs, prescribed medication, " natural " medication, herbals, etc., whatever, eventually operates on our cell walls in some fashion. Cell walls have receptors on their surfaces. The chemicals (see above) that we take in have " thingys (ligands?) " on their surface that match to these receptors, and that allow the chemical to either enter the cell or bind to it. While not all types of cells have the same receptors, some receptors are shared among different cell types. Some vastly different function cells have the same receptors (probably some embryological thing). Also, some or our human cell wall receptors are very similar in structure to receptors for other species. So, a medication/drug/chemical that was found (or was attempted to be designed) to operate on a certain type of cell wall receptor may affect different cells. Sometimes, not so good, as with aminoglycosides and the vestibulocochlear (hearing) nerve. The goal is for a chemical to be structured or shaped so that its " thingys (ligands?) " match or bind to the receptors of the target cells and to no other types of cells. At this point in chemical design, it's not always possible to do this. I'm not sure this helps, but it's the way I remember it. > > Right, I am aware of the possible adverse affects. > > But, is there anyone who can explain the 'why/how'? i.e., What about the antibiotic is so destructive to cells? > (snip) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 OK, here is my MD explanation attempt: There are thousands of different types of anti-biotics. The name literally means " against life " but really the goal and focus is to develop compounds that kill bacteria without harming humans. That's hard because we both have life. Fortunately, bacteria are made of cells that are slightly different from mammalian(higher order creatures) cells. We have eukaryotic cells (lit: good cell) and bacteria are made of prokaryotic cells (lit: early or proto cell). Since there are some fundamental differences between eukaryotes and prokaryotes, that is what scientists have used to targeted drugs. That way a eukaryotic being can swallow something that is harmful to prokaryotes and be fine while the bacteria dies. Ah. If it were only so simple. Thankfully, for mankind, this works pretty well most of the time and it has revolutionized our health in the last century. However, it is foolish to think that each drug only has one restricted function or that the compound that it's mixed in will be strictly inert. There is lots of overlap in chemical signatures on our cell surfaces and eukaryotic cells can be damaged in the course of killing prokaryotes. Some of the eukaryotic cells (depending on function -e.g. nerves)may have some of the markers that are being targeted in the bacterial cell. Injury to innocent bystander cells is what we call an adverse effect. Often an adverse effect is completely expected and we take the drug anyway because the benefit is greater than the risk (example: chemotherapy depletes the bone marrow causing anemia, bleeding and susceptibility to infection, but the benefit is eradication of a malignant tumor). Sometimes the adverse effect is unexpected and expressed in a particular population (example: most of the drugs on the CMTers do not take list). Sometimes a particular adverse effect is happening in everyone, but only those who already had deficits in that area show symptoms. Eukaryotic cells are unbelievably complex and their balance can be thrown off in many unintended ways. Bottom line: Give some thought to risk vs. benefit when you are prescribed any drug. If I have a cold and am given antibiotics " just in case " there may be a bacterial infection or to prevent it, I'm going to say the risk is not worth the benefit (because there is likely no benefit). However, if I have a festering infected finger I will take the antibiotics in a heartbeat because the risk is losing my finger and maybe even my life if it gets in the bloodstream. Pay attention to new symptoms and report them. Ask for a change in drugs to something equivalent if you feel that you are having an adverse reaction. Keep Gretchen's list of do not take drugs for CMT and make sure your doctor knows what to avoid. Holli > > > > May cause joint, muscle, or tendon pain or rupture, nerve pain (burning, electrical sensations, tingling), muscle weakness http://www.medicationsense.com/articles/july_sept_03/reactions_cipro_other.html > > > > > > Dizziness, headaches, seizures and psychosis are well known " adverse " effects of these antibiotics. What is not considered common in the literature, but is outlined in many patient forums and in a medical study of the side effects, is the various other neurological symptoms of these drugs, that can occur in as many as7% of patients. These symptoms include pins and needles, numbness, tingling, muscle and joint pain, palpitations, malaise, panic attacks, and anxiety. (Peripheral Neuropathy Associated with Fluoroquinolones, Jay S. Cohen, The ls of Pharmacotherapy, 2001 December, Volume 35) > > http://thyroid.about.com/cs/thyroiddrugs/a/sideeffects.htm > > > > > > Neurologic: Peripheral neuropathy, which may become severe or irreversible, has occurred. Fatalities have been reported. Conditions such as renal impairment (creatinine clearance under 60 mL per minute or clinically significant elevated serum creatinine), anemia, diabetes mellitus, electrolyte imbalance, vitamin B deficiency, and debilitating diseases may increase the possibility of peripheral neuropathy. http://www.rxlist.com/macrobid-drug.htm > > > > > > ACUTE, SUBACUTE, OR CHRONIC PULMONARY REACTIONS HAVE BEEN OBSERVED IN PATIENTS TREATED WITH NITROFURANTOIN. IF THESE REACTIONS OCCUR, MACROBID SHOULD BE DISCONTINUED AND APPROPRIATE MEASURES TAKEN. REPORTS HAVE CITED PULMONARY REACTIONS AS A CONTRIBUTING CAUSE OF DEATH. > > > > CHRONIC PULMONARY REACTIONS (DIFFUSE INTERSTITIAL PNEUMONITIS OR PULMONARY FIBROSIS, OR BOTH) CAN DEVELOP INSIDIOUSLY. THESE REACTIONS OCCUR RARELY AND GENERALLY IN PATIENTS RECEIVING THERAPY FOR SIX MONTHS OR LONGER. CLOSE MONITORING OF THE PULMONARY CONDITION OF PATIENTS RECEIVING LONG-TERM THERAPY IS WARRANTED AND REQUIRES THAT THE BENEFITS OF THERAPY BE WEIGHED AGAINST POTENTIAL RISKS. http://www.rxlist.com/macrobid-drug.htm# > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 And remember friends, I think it was last month sometime I posted interesting news about how our DNA can also affect how medications affect us (this was just not for people with CMT, but for everyone) I can't remember the title of the article, but when I do (lol) will repost. Gretchen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 Fantastic explanation! Just so you know, we were writing simultaneously and I didn't see your post before typing mine. Your ligand thingy's are my " chemical signature's " -- ligand thingy is even better! Holli > > > > Right, I am aware of the possible adverse affects. > > > > But, is there anyone who can explain the 'why/how'? i.e., What about the antibiotic is so destructive to cells? > > > (snip) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2010 Report Share Posted November 19, 2010 Hollie, What a brillant explanation. The common people will under this article. Eilish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2010 Report Share Posted December 22, 2010 Trudy,I feel your pain sweetie. This whole Christmas Shopping hoopla has had me in dire straits lately. I went this morning to finish up.. this entailed one trip to Wally World for a X-Box 360 game for the hubs, and a few little things and a trip into s for some really strong craft glue so I can put Ian's shadow boxes together... I went to Wal Mart first. I hate that store. I pretty much hate all stores with concrete floors now. I got in there and within 5 minutes I was leaning on the cart trying not to cry. I managed to get the 5 things on my list and get out of there but I didn't think I would make it to my car... I was the first car after the handicapped spots. I sat in my car for 10 minutes before driving to s to get the glue. Walked in there, thought I was fine.. went right to the glue aisle and barely made it out of that store as well... Home in just over an hour. Now the pain has subsided. I hate it. But I am thru with stores now. I hope. Hugs,TeriOn Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 11:29 AM, trudykinsey@... <trudykinsey@...> wrote: Oh No ! I dont ask Whats Next! I seem to be fated to have an endless supply of Whats Next! I will only use the placard where neccesary. Hubby was against it until he actually saw that the walk from the parking place required 10-15 min rest once inside.the past few days I am having real problems with my legs. I stand & they aren't there. I fall back into the chair. " What Next ? " LoL http://facebook.com/people/andTrudy-Kinsey/1340460877 " " A well- behaved woman never made history " ...Mae West http://oktravels.wordpress.com http://allrecipes.com/cook/TrudyK/profile.aspx -- Teri Gottlieb MOVE ON. It's just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book. Just turn the page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2010 Report Share Posted December 22, 2010 TrudyI can really understand. I don't fall anymore; but, anyone with me knows that I can't do - say Wal-Mart, without using a buggy to lean onGloria Oh No ! I dont ask Whats Next! I seem to be fated to have an endless supply of Whats Next! I will only use the placard where neccesary. Hubby was against it until he actually saw that the walk from the parking place required 10-15 min rest once inside.the past few days I am having real problems with my legs. I stand & they aren't there. I fall back into the chair. " What Next ? " LoLhttp://facebook.com/people/andTrudy-Kinsey/1340460877 " "A well- behaved woman never made history"...Mae Westhttp://oktravels.wordpress.com http://allrecipes.com/cook/TrudyK/profile.aspx On Dec 22, 2010, at 12:14 AM, Gloria <gadamscan@...> wrote: I sure hope so Trudy!! After all, you feel like shit from the treatment and then you get a bladder infection because your body is fighting the dragon so hard. Sometimes the question is - what's next??Gloria Went to walkin clinic. Doc ask me if I ran a fever, if I hurt, was I nauseated. I told him, seriously, Doc, what part of chemo did you miss? But I was nice LoL. He gave me Cipro antibiotics after a culure of urine sample. I feel like especially bad crap right now. But I know I will feel better by tomorrow. http://facebook.com/people/andTrudy-Kinsey/1340460877 " "A well- behaved woman never made history"...Mae West http://oktravels.wordpress.com http://allrecipes.com/cook/TrudyK/profile.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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