Ticking Clock- Was: Re: How would you test this mcs safe home for mold?

[Guest guest]

Joe,

You probably consider me as one of your " fan club " who tells

others to ignore you. Actually, in this case, I agree strongly with

you about the " ticking clock. "

What you describe below is a common occurance which traps

those whose bodies can't easily and quickly recover. They need

to be aware of it and continue to take precautions.

When I disagree is when you post on the " ticking time bomb " of

inevitable death with any subsequent exposure.

For the record, I also disagree with others who equate the rare

fungal infection with the all too common allergic reaction or

asthma trigger; with the accompanying assumption we should

respond to all exposures as if we have the dreaded worst case.

Or who equate any reaction at any time to only mold. Or those

who equate any reaction at any time to only chemicals. Or only

dust mites.

There is a broad range of exposures and a broad range of

reactions. It is important to be as accurate as possible to insure

we are fixing the right problem.

There is a broad range of impact from any of the above. It is

important to be as accurate as possible to insure we are fixing

what needs to be fixed without over fixing the minor. Few of us

have the financial resources to err on the side of extreme

protection.

There is a broad range, unfortunately, of how contractors

remediate water damaged and mold infested buildings. It is

important to be as accurate as possible about what works under

which circumstances with what individuals to insure the right

problem is being addressed in a manner that the occupant can

re-enter without reaction. It is possible and is the most common

occurance - even when done with lousy work practices. Or,

determine if that is likely.

In other words, the presence of mold growth doesn't always

mean we should burn down the house before it will kill us.

Once the general responses don't work and we begin to consider

the variabilities, we are in the realm of specifically individual

considerations. With specifically individual fixes. And specifically

individual understanding. So we need to figure out the

commonalities and what aren't.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

When I read your words, below: " ...we are out of the house, except for returning

to clear it out, fix it up, etc. ... " I felt sick to my stomach. IMHO, based on

my own personal experience, you are not familiar with my theory of " the clock is

ticking " . This is my theory: " When a person leaves a moldy environment, their

healing clock starts ticking. Each hour, and day, that the clock ticks, your

health starts improving. After a while [depending on your past duration and

intensity of exposure, you begin feeling more and more like your old,

pre-exposure, self. Then, one day, when your health has improved enough, your

sense of confidence in your invulnerabilty to mold is so great, that you return

to the " scene of the crime " , the moldy environment that you had escaped from.

Your mind tells you that you are healthy enough to return to " clear it out, fix

it up, etc, " Within 24 hours of that " fix it up experience " , you start feeling

sick again. All of the

You see, " the clock is ticking " theory states that, after the many days, weeks,

and months, of feeling healthier, all it takes is one hour of re-exposure to

mold, to turn that ticking clock back to " ZERO " , wiping out all those months of

healing, and starting the " healing clock " all over again, without ANY benefits

from the previous " ticking clock " period of healing.

IMHO, based on my personal experience, that is exactly what you have done to

yourself, with your " clearing out and fixing up " . I strongly suggest that you

stop turning your healing clock back to zero. Stay out of the moldy house.

I have a " fan club " on this board. They will immediately tell you to ignore my

warnings. They will try to convince you that MY personal experiences are not

shared by many, or ANY, other mold sufferers. Nothing less than your life,

depends on who you choose to believe,them-or-me. Please believe me.

God Bless, Joe

.......................................

>

> If course Carl you can always find the Skeptic to end all skeptics who

> will never believe anybody no matter what, all I am saying is that the

> person I wanted to convince to " get the hell out of that house " (my

> husband) along with my 14 yo was more convinced by the combination of

> realtime labs mycotoxins in all of our urines + the same mycotoxins and

> molds that produce those mycotoxins in the house, then layer on the

> salmonella found in the house and then in my sick son's stool...it all

> did the trick, we are out of the house, except for returning to clear it

> out, fix it up, etc...

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[Guest guest]

This is EXACTLY what I think. Joe, I don't object to " your " theory about

exposures and the body being ratcheted up or inflamed such that subsequent

exposures are very, very bad. I just think it's not really *your* theory (as tho

no one thought of it before) and it doesn't need a clever name--because it's

self-evident. The more an inflamed body is around those substances that inflame

it, the worse it will be. Like Carl, though, I don't think this process

inevitably leads to death, and I think to state THAT as tho it were fact is nor

responsible, tho as ice said before, and I'll reiterate again, YOUR HEART IS IN

THE RIGHT PLACE. You care about other people, and I can't knock you for that!

Like Carl, I believe too that our environments are complex and to always focus

on mold or allergies misses the point, tho who can blame us when our own doctors

know little about even mold, let alone other toxins and bacteria in WDB. How are

WE supposed to be scientists,

we who, largely have no scientific training? That's what we rely on specialists

for, tho they often fail us!

[Guest guest]

Hi Carl,

You are one of the " professional " members of this board, whose knowledge and

advice I value highly. My preoccupation with death, comes from burying my father

two years ago, as the direct result of his 2 year long exposure to mold. I lived

with him, and shared the same source of mold exposure, and suffering, until I

removed myself from the moldy environment, and he continued for 2 more years, in

that moldy environment.

While I agree with everything you are saying, IN THEORY, I feel that the

practical realities of most of the mold-sufferers on this board, do not allow

them the " luxury " of exploring all options, and the time to medically " evaluate "

all possible sources of their suffering, before taking action to stop the

mold-exposure. IMHO, I believe, based on my own exposures and the exposure of my

late father, that any lengthy " exploratory " process to diagnose the exact

medical problem, and locate and remediate any " minor " source of the suffering,

simply allows the mold/mycotoxins/bacteria/pathogens etc. more time to cause

IRREPARABLE damage to each organ of the body, and each functional system of the

body, such as respiratory system, digestive system, nervous system etc. - So

that AFTER the headaches stop, and AFTER the nosebleeds stop, and AFTER the

brain fog disappears, and AFTER the body pain disappears, and AFTER the

dermatological conditions are no longer visible, the mold sufferer does NOT

regenerate the damaged cells in his/her lungs; does NOT have his/her heart

return to it's normal size from it's mold-induced hypertrophy [expansion]; does

NOT have the thickened walls of his/her heart regain it's normal thickness; does

NOT have his/her body rid itself of the cancer cells that were brought into

being by the constant state of body-wide inflamation, during the mold-sufferer's

lengthy " search-and-destroy " mission against the causal pathogenic trigger of

his/her suffering.

Five months ago I helped a neighbor bury his wife, due to pancreatic cancer.

About the same time, this same neighbor was diagnosed with myasthenia gravis.

These are two extremely rare diseases. This neighbor has a massive mold

infestation in his home. ??Coincidence??

You decide.

God Bless, Joe

...........................................

[i

have edited the below-Joe]

>

> Joe,

>

> You probably consider me as one of your " fan club " who tells

> others to ignore you. Actually, in this case, I agree strongly with

> you about the " ticking clock. "

>

>

> When I disagree is when you post on the " ticking time bomb " of

> inevitable death with any subsequent exposure.

>

>

> There is a broad range of impact from any of the above. It is

> important to be as accurate as possible to insure we are fixing

> what needs to be fixed without over fixing the minor. Few of us

> have the financial resources to err on the side of extreme

> protection.

>

> In other words, the presence of mold growth doesn't always

> mean we should burn down the house before it will kill us.

>

> Once the general responses don't work and we begin to consider

> the variabilities, we are in the realm of specifically individual

> considerations. With specifically individual fixes. And specifically

individual understanding. So we need to figure out the

> commonalities and what aren't.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

[Guest guest]

You cannot generalize from one case, even two cases, even three. As I recall,

Dr. Thrasher has only seen a few cases of death that were related to mold, but

the most basic scientific principles would prevent him from saying that mold

therefore causes death. I know I am speaking for him, but that's based on what I

recall him saying and what I know from my philosophy of science courses long

ago.

It's healthy to be skeptical of science but let's not throw the baby out with

the bathwater. Science is all we have. The rest is guess work, personal opinion,

fallacies of logic, and magical thinking.

Forms of qualitative study are valuable, but even they are fuidided by normative

practice. Intuition is a valuable guide, too, but not if that's all we use and

all we have.

Look up " scientific method " and " magical thinking " for more.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 18, 2010, at 1:28 PM, " joe " <josephsalowitz@...> wrote:

Hi Carl,

You are one of the " professional " members of this board, whose knowledge and

advice I value highly. My preoccupation with death, comes from burying my father

two years ago