Re: 20 Rep Squats and Explosive Strength

[Guest guest]

I once handed Mel a copy of a book called " Super Squats " that one of my clients

wanted an opinion on. The book promised if you did the high rep squats, you'd

gain 30 pounds of muscle in 6 weeks. Mel went over it and said it was " amusing "

and typical of such get big quick sorts of " programs " . Also said he wouldn't

suggest this one as a way of getting bigger or stronger quickly.

I agreed then and now with his take on the 20 rep squat thinking and I have yet

to meet a competing PL of any standing who has gone this route. Also I cannot

think of sufficient monetary bribe to get ME to do 20 rep squats lol. Although

you might persuade me financially to rep 20 on a deadlift for

grins...sufficiently light and not near a competition of course...<grin>.

The Phantom

aka Schaefer, CMT, CSCS, competing powerlifter

Denver, Colorado, USA

-----------------------------------------

-------------- Original message --------------

From: wilcke@...

I'm not exactly sure 20 rep squats will do much for anybody's " explosive

strength " , except maybe for those who are so skinny and weak that more muscle

is the solution to any of their problems.

Dirk Wilcke

furt, Germany

Zitat von Dan Partelly :

>

> OL WL:

>

> - leg musculature hypertrophy. A higher cross section of fibers means

> always more strength.

>

> - higher work capacity and a certain degree of mental toughness

> (especially when doing 20 rep " breath squats " , at more than 20 RM),

> both very valuable tools in the grueling training sessions of a

> weightlifter.

>

> volleyball guy:

>

> A skinny prick could benefit almost always of some muscle and

> explosive strength. And even as a cool volleyball man, you get laid

> more often when you look like a man and not a broomstick. Excuse my

> very unscientific argument.

>

> Dan Partelly

> Oradea, Romania

[Guest guest]

Foundation of explosive strength is strength. A low class athlete will

greatly benefit from increases in max-strength.

Dan Partelly

Oradea, Romania

> > > >

> > > > This is an excellent example of the value of experience. 20 rep

> > > squat

> > > > schemes have been around for over fifty years. Milk's been around

> > > even

> > > > longer.

> > > > In 1971 my Olympic Weightlifting coach was doing 20 rep sets

of ATG

> > > > front squats with 100 kilos. A former member of the Dutch National

> > > > Soccer Team, he stood 6'1 " and 220 lbs and was ripped like few

> > > > bodybuilders of the day. His quads were massive, ripped, striated

> > > and

> > > > quite functional. One Sun morning we ran 17 7:00 min miles with 30

> > > > seconds rest between each one at the Santa Barbara City College

> > > Track.

> > > > I went home and spent the rest of the day cramping massively,

> > > while my

> > > > coach went down to the beach and played volleyball, I was 21

at the

> > > > time, he was 30.

> > > > My coach's post workout meal was organic raw milk and organic raw

> > > soy

> > > > beans. He always had a bag of soy beans with him and ate them like

> > > > most people eat peanuts.

> > > > A friend of mine, a skinny volleyball player desperate to gain

> > > size,

> > > > particularly in his legs, took my advice and started doing my old

> > > > coach's training scheme of 20 rep sets and whole organic milk. He

> > > put

> > > > on nearly 30 lbs in 6 months. His vertical went up about 6 inches

> > > too.

> > > >

> > > > Old school training, very old school.

> > > >

> > > > You might also go back and look at Ken ONeill's post on the

> > > squatting

> > > > for time.

> > > >

> > > > History never looks like history when you are living through it.

> > > > - W. Gardner

> > > >

> > > > W.G.

> > > > Ubermensch Sports Consultancy

> > > > San Diego, CA

>

[Guest guest]

20 rep squats are a poor way to increase maximal strength, even if we don't put

a limit on permissible bodyweight gain.

Dirk Wilcke

furt, Germany

Zitat von Dan Partelly :

> Foundation of explosive strength is strength. A low class athlete will

> greatly benefit from increases in max-strength.

>

> Dan Partelly

> Oradea, Romania

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > I'm not exactly sure 20 rep squats will do much for anybody's " explosive

> > strength " , except maybe for those who are so skinny and weak that

> more muscle

> > is the solution to any of their problems.

> >

> > Dirk Wilcke

> > furt, Germany

> >

> > Zitat von Dan Partelly :

> >

> > >

> > > OL WL:

> > >

> > > - leg musculature hypertrophy. A higher cross section of fibers means

> > > always more strength.

> > >

> > > - higher work capacity and a certain degree of mental toughness

> > > (especially when doing 20 rep " breath squats " , at more than 20 RM),

> > > both very valuable tools in the grueling training sessions of a

> > > weightlifter.

> > >

> > > volleyball guy:

> > >

> > > A skinny prick could benefit almost always of some muscle and

> > > explosive strength. And even as a cool volleyball man, you get laid

> > > more often when you look like a man and not a broomstick. Excuse my

> > > very unscientific argument.

> > >

> > > Dan Partelly

> > > Oradea, Romania

[Guest guest]

Dirk,

It is unfortunate that you are not familiar with Dragomir Cirioslan's

story. If you were you'd know why your position is both disingenuous

and ill informed and you wouldn't ask such questions. Dragomir was

skinny and weak when he was a kid in addition to having heart

problems. At a young age he began doing traditional Olympic

Weightlifting training, no more than 3 to 5 rep sets. But once he

reached a reasonable level of strength, to stimulate muscle growth and

enhance conditioning he also did high rep training, including 20 rep

or breathing squats. He went on to become one of the best

Weightlifters in the world. He took a Bronze at the LA Olympics in

spite of a serious injury that laid him up for 2 months just prior to

the games, allowing him only two weeks to prepare.

Dirk: " except maybe for those who are so skinny and weak that more

muscleis the solution to any of their problems.'

Multiple sets of 20 rep squats can stimulate growth and become the

foundation of athletic development and were part of Dragomir's

training program, and helped him overcome being skinny, weak and having

heat problems. I find it hard to believe you have no understanding of

muscle hypertrophy and conditioning training for beginners. This sort

of training is so fundamental and been around a long, long time, I

can't believe you haven't heard of it. Please read Ken ONeill's post.

Dirk: " I'm not exactly sure 20 rep squats will do much for anybody's

'explosive strength',... "

This indicates a profound ignorance of the use of Weightlifting in

athletic development. Have you ever heard of periodized training?

Other than weight class athletes that are at their maximum allowed

weight, muscle hypertrophy training is a component of virtually every

athlete's or sports teams periodized training program. First you grow

more muscle, then you train it to be more powerful.

I have trained numerous National level athletes and volleyball

players. The first thing I had the National Team volleyball players

begin doing was muscle hypertrophy training including multiple sets of

20 rep squats. All of them increased lean muscle mass by at least 20

lbs within three months. As their muscle mass increased, more strength

and power exercises were integrated into the training regimen until

they were in season, by which time all training was focused on

maintaining power.

When I was training Karch Kiraly, he did 5 x 20 x 300 lbs ATG squats

for quad and hip complex hypertrophy and conditioning. When I began

preparing Karch he weighed 196 lbs. In '96 when he won numerous pro

tournaments, the King of the Beach and the inaugural Olympic Beach

Volleyball Championship, he was 6'2 " , 220 lbs with sub 5% body fat, a

45 BPM waking morning heart rate and a 40 " no approach vertical. He

was widely considered the best (and best conditioned) volleyball

player in the world.

I am convinced that life in a physical body is meant to be an ecstatic

experience.

- Shakti Gawain

W.G.

Ubermensch Sports Consultancy

SAn Diego, CA

To begin with the previous posts on 20 rep squats were regarding

muscle hypertrophy and conditioning.

> > >

> > > Dear group members,

> > >

> > > excuse my ignorance and nescience, but what are 20 reps of squats

> > > doing for na olympic weightlifter and why is a volleyballer

> > > interested in gaining size and weight?

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Christian Bosse

> > > London, UK

[Guest guest]

Not so long ago, I heard someone criticizing some leg strength

routines developed by I. Javorek.

" They couldn't work " said the man. Probably his " textbook " or

" studies " and his great knowledge made him draw this conclusion. I

laughed, and said nothing. The said routines where working in fact. I

tried them, on several different occasions, so I would know. For the

purpose they where designed they worked perfectly.

So as much as I respect Dr. Siff, he wasn't always right, and he

didn't hold the supreme truth in sport sciences. He had scientific

method, rigor and a bright mind. But he wasnt always right.

Probably, just probably, Dr. Siff should have tried the routine,

instead of being " amused " . For example, with several kids which

needed to pack weight.

As for you not knowing any power lifter which took this route,

you certainly realize that this routine is not the end all of

training, and you probably have enough knowledge to realize part of

the effects it will generate. And also realize it was not designed to

be a routine for advanced powerlifters, so I dont find weird is not

used at high level powerlifting.

You also don't use routines used in tenths of other sports with great

success. Now if a powerlifter doesn't use it, its no good ?

In this thread you seen several ppl already saying good things about

this routine. It worked for them, then at there, when was needed.

So I suggest all disbelievers close your beloved textbooks for a

moment, bypass the dogma of your current beloved guru, and try new

things from time to time.

Dan Partelly

Oradea, Romania

>

> I once handed Mel a copy of a book called " Super Squats " that one of

my clients wanted an opinion on. The book promised if you did the

high rep squats, you'd gain 30 pounds of muscle in 6 weeks. Mel went

over it and said it was " amusing " and typical of such get big quick

sorts of " programs " . Also said he wouldn't suggest this one as a way

of getting bigger or stronger quickly.

>

> I agreed then and now with his take on the 20 rep squat thinking and

I have yet to meet a competing PL of any standing who has gone this

route. Also I cannot think of sufficient monetary bribe to get ME to

do 20 rep squats lol. Although you might persuade me financially to

rep 20 on a deadlift for grins...sufficiently light and not near a

competition of course...<grin>.

>

> The Phantom

> aka Schaefer, CMT, CSCS, competing powerlifter

> Denver, Colorado, USA

>

> -----------------------------------------

>

> -------------- Original message --------------

> From: wilcke@...

> I'm not exactly sure 20 rep squats will do much for anybody's " explosive

> strength " , except maybe for those who are so skinny and weak that

more muscle

> is the solution to any of their problems.

>

> Dirk Wilcke

> furt, Germany

>

> Zitat von Dan Partelly :

>

> >

> > OL WL:

> >

> > - leg musculature hypertrophy. A higher cross section of fibers means

> > always more strength.

> >

> > - higher work capacity and a certain degree of mental toughness

> > (especially when doing 20 rep " breath squats " , at more than 20 RM),

> > both very valuable tools in the grueling training sessions of a

> > weightlifter.

> >

> > volleyball guy:

> >

> > A skinny prick could benefit almost always of some muscle and

> > explosive strength. And even as a cool volleyball man, you get laid

> > more often when you look like a man and not a broomstick. Excuse my

> > very unscientific argument.

> >

> > Dan Partelly

> > Oradea, Romania

>