How can one be sick and not be fatigued?(Was: Re: Tug's S...

[Guest guest]

As I understand it, moderate exercise, such as a 20 minute walk (5 may be

moderate for you), is KEY to helping regain your stamina.

In a message dated 11/6/2010 8:38:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

advocate_now@... writes:

I don't understand how one can be sick from mold or toxins of any sort and

NOT have crushing fatigue. Anyone else EXHAUSTED?

I wish I could do moderate exercise, let alone vigorous,

electrolyte-depleting exercise. At least I don't have to worry about edema.

Small favors!

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 5, 2010, at 10:31 PM, _snk1955@..._ (mailto:snk1955@...)

wrote:

Moderate execise, such as walks, when first recovering is how I understand

what is recommended. Too much and one can get exercise induced edema.

In a message dated 11/5/2010 8:22:42 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

_tug_slug@..._ (mailto:tug_slug@...) writes:

Thank you Carl and everyone else that took the time to respond to my

question.

[Guest guest]

I think there are probably a lot of people who think CFS, at least a form

of it, does have to do with toxins, because they are able to corrolate the

beginning with CFS to a toxic exposure. Although I was never diagnosed

with a toxic illness and was successfully treated immunologically for

hypersensitivity pneumonitis; I can tell you that I spent many a day where I

literally could not get my head off of the pillow. I would sit up for about 5

minutes and go right back down. Isn't that CFS?

In a message dated 11/6/2010 9:46:24 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

advocate_now@... writes:

On another note, the very hallmark of chronic fatigue syndrome is

exercise-induced intolerance. And graded exercise does not change that. So if I

want to exercise, I have to make sure that I don't have to do any real

thinking afterwards, because my brain will be mush.

However, I don't think CFS has anything to do with toxins, so I guess I am

talking about something different here. I know lots of people here believe

CFS has to do with toxins,but I don't. Anyway, that's a different topic.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 6, 2010, at 10:40 AM, _snk1955@..._ (mailto:snk1955@...)

wrote:

As I understand it, moderate exercise, such as a 20 minute walk (5 may be

moderate for you), is KEY to helping regain your stamina.

In a message dated 11/6/2010 8:38:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

_advocate_now@..._ (mailto:advocate_now@...) writes:

I don't understand how one can be sick from mold or toxins of any sort and

NOT have crushing fatigue. Anyone else EXHAUSTED?

I wish I could do moderate exercise, let alone vigorous,

electrolyte-depleting exercise. At least I don't have to worry about

edema. Small favors!

Sent from my iPhone

[Guest guest]

when I worked in a moldy building I would get very sleepy

In a message dated 11/6/2010 2:54:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

jerizerr@... writes:

Perhaps the fatigue is related to a depletion of Chi energy or ATP. My

understanding is ATP is reliant upon ribose which the body generally

produces, but the creation of ribose is a high energy demand system which

the body shuts down when under stress due to the high energy demand the

ribose production itself entails. I recommend Dr. Sinatra's books

including Sinatra Solution for further information on ATP, energy, ribose

and fatigue.

Otherwise perhaps one of my reviews on Amazon may shed further light:

_http://www.amazon.com/NutraBulk-D-Ribose-Powder-ONE-KILOGRAM/dp/B0011G6HCM/

_

(http://www.amazon.com/NutraBulk-D-Ribose-Powder-ONE-KILOGRAM/dp/B0011G6HCM/)

Be sure to read the review after mine which addresses fatigue.

Jeri

[Guest guest]

Perhaps the fatigue is related to a depletion of Chi energy or ATP. My

understanding is ATP is reliant upon ribose which the body generally

produces, but the creation of ribose is a high energy demand system which

the body shuts down when under stress due to the high energy demand the

ribose production itself entails. I recommend Dr. Sinatra's books

including Sinatra Solution for further information on ATP, energy, ribose

and fatigue.

Otherwise perhaps one of my reviews on Amazon may shed further light:

http://www.amazon.com/NutraBulk-D-Ribose-Powder-ONE-KILOGRAM/dp/B0011G6HCM/

Be sure to read the review after mine which addresses fatigue.

Jeri

On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Advocate_Now <advocate_now@...>wrote:

>

>

> On another note, the very hallmark of chronic fatigue syndrome is

> exercise-induced intolerance. And graded exercise does not change that. So

> if I want to exercise, I have to make sure that I don't have to do any real

> thinking afterwards, because my brain will be mush.

>

> However, I don't think CFS has anything to do with toxins, so I guess I am

> talking about something different here. I know lots of people here believe

> CFS has to do with toxins,but I don't. Anyway, that's a different topic.

>

> Sent from my iPhone

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mycotoxins and many other chemicals are known mitochondrial poisons, reducing

the production of ATP.

Re: [] How can one be sick and not be fatigued?(Was: Re:

Tug's S...

when I worked in a moldy building I would get very sleepy

In a message dated 11/6/2010 2:54:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

jerizerr@... writes:

Perhaps the fatigue is related to a depletion of Chi energy or ATP. My

understanding is ATP is reliant upon ribose which the body generally

produces, but the creation of ribose is a high energy demand system which

the body shuts down when under stress due to the high energy demand the

ribose production itself entails. I recommend Dr. Sinatra's books

including Sinatra Solution for further information on ATP, energy, ribose

and fatigue.

Otherwise perhaps one of my reviews on Amazon may shed further light:

_http://www.amazon.com/NutraBulk-D-Ribose-Powder-ONE-KILOGRAM/dp/B0011G6HCM/

_

(http://www.amazon.com/NutraBulk-D-Ribose-Powder-ONE-KILOGRAM/dp/B0011G6HCM/)

Be sure to read the review after mine which addresses fatigue.

Jeri

[Guest guest]

CFS is a symptom of chronic illness is the best way to describe it. Chronic

sinusitis resulting from fungal and bacterial infections can add to it.

Infections in the sinuses can lead to invasion of the brain, e.g. orbits,

pituitary, cerebrum, cerebellum, meninges.

[] How can one be sick and not be fatigued?(Was: Re:

Tug's S...

mucosal barrior function,some of this could be related to senstivity in the

sinuses and lungs too, couldn't it?

>

> You are entitled to your belief. You have only defined one aspect of CFS. I

suggest you read up on the latest information on CFS. It is a toxic response.

>

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964729/pdf/1743-7075-7-79.pdf

>

> --

[Guest guest]

I had CFSlong before I was exposed.

In a message dated 11/6/2010 11:54:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

listspub@... writes:

The very latest finding is the retrovirus XMRV which I have tested positive

for.

[Guest guest]

The simple answer as to why you get so tired is that your immune system is

stressed by foreign substances in your body it is working overtime to rid;

coupled with the constant emotional and psychological stress you are

under. The name of the game is to get yourself in a position that the

emotional

stress and psychological stress can be lessened while aiding your immune

system via diet, sleep, mild exercise and foreign substance removal aids,

avoidance, etc, (and reading poetry, watching Lucy, playing games on the

computer, etc) to recover. Don't push it too hard, or it will become more

compromised as it tries to do its job for you. It is a full time job to recover

(or lessen the severity) of toxic illness....seems to me.

In a message dated 11/6/2010 12:36:40 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

tug_slug@... writes:

After my initial exposure the weather was to cold to go out and do any

kind of walking but I dont ever recall being " fatigued " .

[Guest guest]

Fungi and bacteria form biofilms in nature and inside the body. The biofilms

protect the microorganisms from dangers in their environment. It would be

analogous to our skin.

[] How can one be sick and not be fatigued?(Was: Re:

Tug's S...

Dr, Thrasher, this boifilm, protects the spore but not us, is this what may

have have left a almost wax like cover on my belongings,

which I fell pretty well coated my insides, hair,skin.

in a very high moisture mold growth situation where it had been growing

many,many years unchecked, abandoned home would this biofilm be in heavy enough

amounts that it would show itself in that way.

>

> The answer is a probable yes. Microbial (fungal and/or bacteria) infection

in the sinuses is protected by a biofilm secreted by the microorganisms. This

leads to chronic recurrent infections, even after antibiotic treatment. See the

following:

>

> http://www.drthrasher.org/page198.html

>

[Guest guest]

I do not know. You would have to have growth on the hair. If you shampoo your

hair regularly there will be minimal growth. The major problem with biofilms

is the infectious state. You are getting over carried on this subject.

[] How can one be sick and not be fatigued?(Was: Re:

Tug's S...

ok, excudeing the skin and insides, what about the hair and belongings? would

this leave a noticable film? well not noticable as in seeing, but felling.

[Guest guest]

I could not do a treadmill  4 years ago never mind now.  I am sure some would

like to put there names on every little finding.  regardless of the fatigue it

is fatigue and will impair you in one way or another.   Like for instance

people

who do not CFS then get Chemo and suffer CF.  One way or another is

debilitating. 

  

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: osisposis <jeaninem660@...>

Sent: Sun, November 7, 2010 1:01:20 PM

Subject: [] How can one be sick and not be fatigued?(Was: Re: Tug's

S...

 

seems to me thats pretty much describeing SBS, had I gotton to a doctor on this

shortly after exposure I may have been diagnosed with CSF, several years later

was diagnosed as borderline CSF, even though I was practicing advoidance, but

the infectious disease doc's waiting room was severely affecting me in a bad

way. had his waiting room not affected me that way, I probably wouldn't have

been diagnosed with it at all, even though a questionaire was involved.

he didn't put me on a treadmill to test my stamina. had he done that I probably

would have been diagnosed with severe CSF and a few other things. my CF is worse

along with when I fell worse, and exserting myself in pretty small ways

physically can drain away my energy pretty quick.

I think chronic fatigue is chronic fatique, differences in the body depending on

infectious vs non-infectious causes, but basicly level of organ damage,and other

bodily functions, with somewhat differing other effects dependant on cause but

still in alot of ways the same and each person makeup would factor in.

to me haveing your mucosal barriors and tissue damaged and not getting your

nutrients would be one factor I can relate to,

even with exposure in both houses I can see how it went from bad to worse, much

worse.

metabolism would also play a role, so far I haven't seen any part of this

illness that can be pinned on one thing going on.

so while CF may end up getting many names just like everything else based on

cause,or based on who tested what and claims to have made a big discovery, what

happens in the body well have alot of simularities with other causes of CF.

illness.

what Dr. Thrasher posted talks about a few different causes, so I could probably

now fell like the term CSF covers all causes and levels of CF, a sndrome is a

ongoing thing,regardless of severity.

but I have little doubt that there well doc's wanting to put their names on

things or their discoveries and well propose new names seperateing each cause

and or each different finding and than it well get about as confuseing as

everything else.

>

> I believe their is being chronically fatigued from being ill, then there is

> CFS.  Many

[Guest guest]

Change you shampoo and soaps. I am not going to respond anymore.

[] How can one be sick and not be fatigued?(Was: Re:

Tug's S...

nothing would get that coated wax felling out of my hair, eventually it grew

out enough that it was all gone by cuttings.

but I threw some drinking glass glasses away because it just didn't seem to

want to come off of them, it could diffenitly be felt, it just bothered me

enough on those classes that I couldn't use them so I tossed them.

>

> >

> > Fungi and bacteria form biofilms in nature and inside the body. The

biofilms protect the microorganisms from dangers in their environment. It would

be analogous to our skin.

> >

[Guest guest]

Me too--CFS long before mold exposure. A lot of people think CFS is just

fatigue, but it's more than that. Nonetheless, I would think someone reacting to

mold would be fatigued (but not have CFS).

I read the same thing, Robin.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 7, 2010, at 3:58 AM, Gingersnap1964@... wrote:

I had CFSlong before I was exposed.

In a message dated 11/6/2010 11:54:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

listspub@... writes:

The very latest finding is the retrovirus XMRV which I have tested positive

for.

[Guest guest]

Excuse me. Since I live CFS every day, and have since before any mold exposure,

or toxin exposure, indeed have lived with it every day foe two decades, and my

GP is an expert in it, I know what the full range of symptoms are. Nonetheless,

an inability to gain stamina --and crashing after exercise--IS a hallmark and

DOES distinguish it from fibromylagia.

The paper discusses " gut infections " in addition to viruses as causative. That

does not oppose what I " believe. " When I think of toxins, I think of molds,

arsenic, asbestos, etc.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 6, 2010, at 12:55 PM, " Jack Thrasher, Ph.D. " <toxicologist1@...>

wrote:

You are entitled to your belief. You have only defined one aspect of CFS. I

suggest you read up on the latest information on CFS. It is a toxic response.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964729/pdf/1743-7075-7-79.pdf

[Guest guest]

Leaky gut video: Pathologist Croft talks about the 'cilia' shown in this video

as being damaged by toxins and he says the damage is not reversable, so one

reason Dr Marinkovichs mold free diet is important, to cut back on eating

toxins. Now I think this could also be attributed to doctors not recommending

probiotics to patients they put on antibiotics as one reason for many people

having ruined guts. I never understood why doctors do not recommend to patients

who they rx antibiotics. Even in insert package of antibiotics no recommendation

by pharmaceutical companies to add probiotics when on them, which would be easy

to do. I note in reading inserts of antibiotics they mention the myriad of side

affects to gut that can happen when taking their antibiotic but then just say,

if you develop these, call your doctor (who then also says nothing about

probiotics or even buttermilk or yogurt...duh!).

>

> heres a little vedio on leaky gut.

> http://www.clinical-rounds.com/leaky_gut.html

>

>