Re: Animal fats and heart health

[Guest guest]

****

> I'm interested in hearing if anyone here has read Colpo's The

> Great Cholesterol Con or The Cholesterol Myths by Uffe Ravnskov?

> If you have, what do you think of their views that there is no proven

> link between Cholesterol and heart disease?****

, I've not read those books, but I am well acquainted with their

premise that saturated fat and cholesterol do not cause heart disease.

It's bunkum. Believe it at your risk.

Reading for you here if you are in any doubt.

Brown and Goldstein (Nobel Prize winners, 1985, cholesterol and

atherosclerosis mechanism)

http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/utsw/cda/dept14857/files/114532.html

Thematic review series: The Pathogenesis of Atherosclerosis. An

interpretive history of the cholesterol controversy: part I (of 5)

J. Lipid Res., Sep 2004; 45: 1583 - 1593.

Thematic review series: The Pathogenesis of Atherosclerosis. An

interpretive history of the cholesterol controversy, part V: The

discovery of the statins and the end of the controversy

J. Lipid Res., Jul 2006; 47: 1339 - 1351.

http://tinyurl.com/63jbde

Types of Dietary Fat and Risk of Coronary Heart Disease: A Critical

Review. B. Hu, MD, PhD, JoAnn E. Manson, MD, DrPh and Walter C.

Willett, MD, DrPh

Department of Nutrition, Harvard School of Public Health

http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/20/1/5

Lipoproteins, nutrition, and heart disease. Ernst J Schaefer. American

Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 75, No. 2, 191-212, February 2002

http://tinyurl.com/69v36j

O'Keefe JH Jr, Cordain L, PG, Abuissa H. Coronary artery disease

prognosis and C-reactive protein levels improve in proportion to

percent lowering of low-density lipoprotein.

Am J Cardiol. 2006 Jul 1;98(1):135-9.

O'Keefe JH Jr, Cordain L, WH, Moe RM, Vogel R. Optimal low-

density lipoprotein is 50 to 70 mg/dl: lower is better and

physiologically normal.

J Am Coll Cardiol. 2004 Jun 2;43(11):2142-6. Review.

Note Loren Cordain of Paleo fame in these last two papers.

(I've read all of these papers BTW.)

To believe the cholesterol skeptics one has to believe that 98% of the

world's scientists in this field are either stupid, corrupt or both.

Actually, I've seen some well-known so-called 'nutritionists' in the

sports and weight training business serve up some of this stuff as

well. They ought to be ashamed of themselves.

Gympie, Australia

[Guest guest]

Hi :

This masterful marshaling of the evidence has me rethinking my skepticism about

the US

government's anti-dietary fat crusade that hasn't seemed to prevent the

so-called

epidemic of obesity. Nonetheless I still think that the combination of dietary

fats and

starches is probably responsible to a considerable degree for a large (in more

ways than

just quantity) sedentary minority blowing up like balloons and skewing the

averages. Eskimos lived on an almost pure fat diet for centuries without ill

effects. Has any ethnic

group until now had a diet that was high in both fats and carbs? This whole

debate boils

down to genetic susceptibilities. Though I am not about to test mine at the

tender age of

52.

Mike Grace

Puriscal, Costa Rica

> ****

> > I'm interested in hearing if anyone here has read Colpo's The

> > Great Cholesterol Con or The Cholesterol Myths by Uffe Ravnskov?

> > If you have, what do you think of their views that there is no proven

> > link between Cholesterol and heart disease?****

>

> , I've not read those books, but I am well acquainted with their

> premise that saturated fat and cholesterol do not cause heart disease.

> It's bunkum. Believe it at your risk.

>

> Reading for you here if you are in any doubt.

>

[Guest guest]

There is a tribe of East African pastoralists where the men consume animal fats

(milk) and

starches (corn) as part of a fattening ritual. Now if I could only remember

where I read

this.

Mike Grace

Puriscal, Costa Rica

> ****

> > I'm interested in hearing if anyone here has read Colpo's The

> > Great Cholesterol Con or The Cholesterol Myths by Uffe Ravnskov?

> > If you have, what do you think of their views that there is no proven

> > link between Cholesterol and heart disease?****

>

> , I've not read those books, but I am well acquainted with their

> premise that saturated fat and cholesterol do not cause heart disease.

> It's bunkum. Believe it at your risk.

>

> Reading for you here if you are in any doubt.

>

> Brown and Goldstein (Nobel Prize winners, 1985, cholesterol and

> atherosclerosis mechanism)

> http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/utsw/cda/dept14857/files/114532.html

[Guest guest]

--- Grace wrote:

.. Eskimos lived on

> an almost pure fat diet for centuries without ill

> effects. Has any ethnic

> group until now had a diet that was high in both

> fats and carbs? This whole debate boils

> down to genetic susceptibilities. Though I am not

> about to test mine at the tender age of

> 52.

>

> Mike Grace

> Puriscal, Costa Rica

A few years ago on another forum (Training Nutrition)

a similar discussion concerning the merits of high fat

diet in Eskimos was ongoing. I did some research on

the Eskimos and found that the average life expectancy

was 40 years old and the most common cause of death

was heart disease. Unfortunately I do not have the

reference for this. I am on vacation and do not have

access to the Library where I found the data.

Ralph Giarnella MD

Southington Ct USA

[Guest guest]

I am not a nutritionist or biochemist by training, so please take my

words below with a grain of salt (better still, skip the salt ).

Dr. Barry Sears, the author of many Zone books (see also

www.drsears.com and www.zonediet.com ) claims in his book " The Omega

RX Zone " that

" The only explanation for the fact that Eskimos weren't dying of heart

disease (and the fact that they had virtually no depression, cancer,

or multiple sclerosis) seemed to be that they consumed a lot of fish

oil. "

Then he goes on to describe how large intake of fish oils, and very

little carbs, have helped Eskimos' SIP (or, Silent Inflammation

Profile, the ratio of AA:EPA - that is, ratio of Arachidonic Acid (AA)

and EicosaPentaenoic Acid (EPA)) so they have less heart disease).

HOWEVER, one's SIP can be too low, leading to other immune-deficiency

problems (hence Eskimos' low life expectancy). See this page for

testing of SIP for some explanation:

http://www.omega3testing.com/Documents/SilentInflammationProfileTestInterpretati\

on012505.pdf

There are many books written by Dr. Sears, and many people claim to

have benefited greatly (see Amazon's reviews on his books). Having

read some of his books myself, I find the arguments convincing (again,

not being a biochemist/nutritionist myself, I lack the knowledge to

critique his information). He also claims to have helped elite

Stanford swimmers and cyclists with the Zone diet, which is basically

high amounts of ultra-refined fish oils plus balanced amounts of carbs

and proteins (see his books and websites for information). He is not a

fan of high-protein, low-carb diet.

So according to this point of view, all animals fats are not bad for

heart health (for example, fish oils/Omega-3, especially

ultra-refined, which he sells at high prices, are quite good). Only

saturated fats, and transfats are bad. Monounsaturated fats like olive

oil are good. Vegetable oils containing a lot of Omega-6 are bad, etc.

etc. There is a lot of biochemical info given in his books, which I

don't want to repeat here.

Does anyone have convincing arguments for/against the Zone Diet above,

and scientific studies proving one way or the other. I am very

interested in learning more about this subject.

Best regards

Jaideep Mukherjee, Ph. D.

Yuwakan.com

Houston TX USA

> . Eskimos lived on

> > an almost pure fat diet for centuries without ill

> > effects. Has any ethnic

> > group until now had a diet that was high in both

> > fats and carbs? This whole debate boils

> > down to genetic susceptibilities. Though I am not

> > about to test mine at the tender age of

> > 52.

> >

> > Mike Grace

> > Puriscal, Costa Rica

>

>

> A few years ago on another forum (Training Nutrition)

> a similar discussion concerning the merits of high fat

> diet in Eskimos was ongoing. I did some research on

> the Eskimos and found that the average life expectancy

> was 40 years old and the most common cause of death

> was heart disease. Unfortunately I do not have the

> reference for this. I am on vacation and do not have

> access to the Library where I found the data.

>

> Ralph Giarnella MD

> Southington Ct USA

>