Re: How would you test this mcs safe home for mold?

[Guest guest]

Little to no possibility for " mold. "

Yes, there will be mold detected by almost any credible test

procedure because mold is everywhere all the time. The question

is has the mold grown and reproduced because of the water?

If the structure dries in a couple of days there won't be time for

the mold - and the bacteria, don't forget about the bacteria! - to

germinate, grow, and reproduce by developing spores. It takes

time, it isn't instantaneous.

I'd say she's got a great situation!

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

I was talking with a woman in Tennessee who was very ill with MCS and

mold sensitivity and pesticide sensitivity when she built her safe home 12

years ago. She's basically feeling pretty well now. Everything was done

correctly in building and maintaining the home, including a slab with

proper moisture barrier. The house is elevated 3 feet off the ground.

There was, however, a freak flood in Tennessee in May, and she had

water intrusion into her home, 1/2 an inch pooled in corners and along

the wall edges etc. Though she got the water out the next day and hasn't

seen any mold, couldn't there be a strong possibility of mold, how would

one look for it? She did not moisture test the walls at the time, etc. She

doesn't feel any worse.

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[Guest guest]

It will take time for the mold. However some of the bacteria, e.g. pseudomonas

and proteus have a generation time of about 60 minutes at room temperature. The

actinobacteria would take 48 to 72 hours to become visible colonies.

Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Off: 916-745-4703

Cell: 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

916-745-4703 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

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[Guest guest]

You're right about the bacteria, Dr Thrasher. Which makes me wonder if that is

what people are reacting to when they report impact within a couple of hours,

certainly within a day or so. Almost always too soon for new mold growth

starting from spores. But maybe not for existing growth that is dormant and just

needing a fresh supply of moisture to perk up again.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

(fm my Blackberry)

Re: [] How would you test this mcs safe home for mold?

It will take time for the mold. However some of the bacteria, e.g. pseudomonas

and proteus have a generation time of about 60 minutes at room temperature. The

actinobacteria would take 48 to 72 hours to become visible colonies.

Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Off: 916-745-4703

Cell: 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

916-745-4703 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

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[Guest guest]

Carl: It is difficult to say which unless testing has been done. We must

remember that bacteria produce toxins as well as endotoxins from Gram Negative

bacteria.

Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Off: 916-745-4703

Cell: 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

916-745-4703 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

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[Guest guest]

Dr. Thrasher & Carl--in terms of bacterial vocs, which I know are too often

overlooked, would that show up on wall surfaces?

She has polished concrete floors. Nothing showed up on any surfaces. She is

thinking of doing some mold testing anyway, even though she feels fine.

In the future, should climate change continue and there be other crazy floods in

places that never had floods, what is the best approach to that kind of water

intrusion? Obviously one sweeps out or mops up the water asap. Should one put

some space heaters in a room? Should one moisture test walls a few days later?

Just curious.

[Guest guest]

It is possible for them to show up on wall surfaces. Many of the bacterial vocs

are alcohols, aldehydes and esters. These can form bonds with molecules present

in dust and on the walls. The problem is no one is paying any attention to the

subject of bacteria,. including this forum.

I just did a home here in Sacramento. The flooring, walls and kitchen cabinets

contained high levels of Gram negative bacteria of which two are pathogenic to

humans and animals, while a third is considered opportunistic pathogen. The

family of four all have serious diarrhea as well as poor health. I have done

other homes where Gram negative and positive bacteria were very abundant in

addition to the molds. The testing was done by Q-tip swab samples. The

bacteria range in the millions per swab. Also, endotoxins are present at very

high concentrations. Now you tell me, is the illness caused by the mold or the

bacteria or a combination? I favor a combination.

Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Off: 916-745-4703

Cell: 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

916-745-4703 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

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[Guest guest]

How do they form bonds with molecules on walls? Are these superficial molecules

or part of the wall composition.

Is the bond so strong you have to tear down the walls or does this stuff die (is

moisture allowing continued growth?) and then what happens to the endotoxins? Do

they " die off " or continue on?

Can you smell the VOCs? Could this be what happens when moisture builds up in a

basement and the mildewy smell appears but no visual evidence of mold?

Thank you,

Robin

>

> The problem is finding someone to do that testing. I am acutely aware, thanks

to your info, that bacteria can be a problem. My husband sanitizes all bathroom

surfaces once weekly. But who do you contact for testing of bacteria???

>

> Sent from my iPhone

>

> On Oct 14, 2010, at 11:44 AM, " Jack Thrasher, Ph.D. " <toxicologist1@...>

wrote:

>

> It is possible for them to show up on wall surfaces. Many of the bacterial

vocs are alcohols, aldehydes and esters. These can form bonds with molecules

present in dust and on the walls. The problem is no one is paying any attention

to the subject of bacteria,. including this forum.

>

> I just did a home here in Sacramento. The flooring, walls and kitchen cabinets

contained high levels of Gram negative bacteria of which two are pathogenic to

humans and animals, while a third is considered opportunistic pathogen. The

family of four all have serious diarrhea as well as poor health. I have done

other homes where Gram negative and positive bacteria were very abundant in

addition to the molds. The testing was done by Q-tip swab samples. The bacteria

range in the millions per swab. Also, endotoxins are present at very high

concentrations. Now you tell me, is the illness caused by the mold or the

bacteria or a combination? I favor a combination.

>

> Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

> Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

> www.drthrasher.org

> toxicologist1@...

> Off: 916-745-4703

> Cell: 575-937-1150

>

> L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

> Trauma Specialist

> sandracrawley@...

> 916-745-4703 - Off

> 775-309-3994 - Cell

>

> This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

privileged and confidential. The forwarding or redistribution of this message

(and any attachments) without my prior written consent is strictly prohibited

and may violate privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this message has been

served, please destroy the original message contents. If you have received this

message in error, please reply immediately to advise the sender of the

miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies you have printed.

Thank you in advance for your compliance.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Another thought.. Shoemaker does not seem to go there so much but he does say

" mold stew " . The endotoxins are biotoxins, is that correct? I dont think lyme

makes a mycotoxin, rather an endotoxin which is a biotoxin. Do these bacteria

make similar?

Robin

>

> The problem is finding someone to do that testing. I am acutely aware, thanks

to your info, that bacteria can be a problem. My husband sanitizes all bathroom

surfaces once weekly. But who do you contact for testing of bacteria???

>

> Sent from my iPhone

>

> On Oct 14, 2010, at 11:44 AM, " Jack Thrasher, Ph.D. " <toxicologist1@...>

wrote:

>

> It is possible for them to show up on wall surfaces. Many of the bacterial

vocs are alcohols, aldehydes and esters. These can form bonds with molecules

present in dust and on the walls. The problem is no one is paying any attention

to the subject of bacteria,. including this forum.

>

> I just did a home here in Sacramento. The flooring, walls and kitchen cabinets

contained high levels of Gram negative bacteria of which two are pathogenic to

humans and animals, while a third is considered opportunistic pathogen. The

family of four all have serious diarrhea as well as poor health. I have done

other homes where Gram negative and positive bacteria were very abundant in

addition to the molds. The testing was done by Q-tip swab samples. The bacteria

range in the millions per swab. Also, endotoxins are present at very high

concentrations. Now you tell me, is the illness caused by the mold or the

bacteria or a combination? I favor a combination.

>

> Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

> Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

> www.drthrasher.org

> toxicologist1@...

> Off: 916-745-4703

> Cell: 575-937-1150

>

> L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

> Trauma Specialist

> sandracrawley@...

> 916-745-4703 - Off

> 775-309-3994 - Cell

>

> This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

privileged and confidential. The forwarding or redistribution of this message

(and any attachments) without my prior written consent is strictly prohibited

and may violate privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this message has been

served, please destroy the original message contents. If you have received this

message in error, please reply immediately to advise the sender of the

miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies you have printed.

Thank you in advance for your compliance.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Gram negative bacteria produce endotoxins.

Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Off: 916-745-4703

Cell: 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

916-745-4703 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

privileged and confidential. The forwarding or redistribution of this message

(and any attachments) without my prior written consent is strictly prohibited

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served, please destroy the original message contents. If you have received this

message in error, please reply immediately to advise the sender of the

miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies you have printed.

Thank you in advance for your compliance.

[Guest guest]

It makes sense that our condition would match an environment that we spend most

of our time in.

>

> IN our case, house toxicology matched what was in our bodies, so kind of

> verified the bodily testing,

[Guest guest]

I think I understand gist of this post but by IMF, you mean monetary fund or

i.e. money rules the world? Just want to be sure.

> " It is not only the defense experts it is also the medical community at

> large "

>

> This is because the defense experts are not stupid. Nor are the risk

> managers who track trends who work with them. He who controls medicine in

> established health policies that are used to control the medical community;

> controls the game in court.

>

> Sharon

>

[Guest guest]

i get it. you should here it from the lyme and cfs end. im sure most of us have.

as for me " finally getting it " as you said with the sinus and tissue cultures..

i got that a long time ago.. you dont research chronic illness for over 3 years

without getting all that. the question is and was HOW to get that done.. what

particular test do you write down on sheet of paper to hadn your doctor if you

are lucky enough to have one who will be openminded enough to test.. for nasal

and lung.. i am getting nasal and eary morning.. any lab other than real time

dna (the you have to have a clue which one to test for) and what lab and what

tests to requisition for for the wet building stew bacteria.. is there a list of

most common offenders? do labs like quest and labcorp test for them? ive had to

play doctor as one arrogant chiropractor (how ironic) accused me of for over 3

years now. i deserve some respect for that.

robin

> " It is not only the defense experts it is also the medical community at

> large "

>

>

[Guest guest]

yes we are, totally agree AN. we keep getting slapped in the face as well.. Dr

Thrasher, with all due respect, do you live this nighmare? most of us have to be

in the drivers seat to get anything done.. then we keep facing attack from

within. its nuts.

robin

> " It is not only the defense experts it is also the medical community at

> large "

>

> This is because the defense experts are not stupid. Nor are the risk

> managers who track trends who work with them. He who controls medicine in

> established health policies that are used to control the medical community;

> controls the game in court.

>

> Sharon

>

[Guest guest]

I used to work for the government and after elections, things really change,

heads of all the depts change and they get new people to work for them and

whatever the views are at the top, that filters down but it takes a couple of

years. Its like a domino effect. People expect it to be immediate but that isn't

possible.

>

>Carl and Jack,

>

> Three years ago, I would have said that you COULD lump the CDC & EPA into

> the same category as ACOEM and the US Chamber. Not all the employees, but

> certainly the directive of the upper management. But I do not think that

> holds true today.

>

> If anyone was on the CIAQ teleconference webinar last week - they would

> have seen a dramatic change. They are moving forward with advancing the

> science from many areas over this issue. They are acknowledging that there

is

> evidence we are experiencing chronic inflammations. They are

> acknowledging we are being exposed to multiple contaminants in water damaged

> buildings, simultaneously.

>

> I don't think it is so much that the federal employees have changed -

> rather that the leadership has changed and the free flowing assault on

> government science by industry in various federally agency has become greatly

> lessened.

>

> Sharon

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Dr Thrasher.

Robin

--- In , " Jack Thrasher, Ph.D. " <toxicologist1@...>

wrote:

>

> Robin and All: I just added the below to my web site. Perhaps the

information will help all to understand what is occurring with chronic

inflammation.

>

> http://www.drthrasher.org/page167.html

>

> Re: [] Re: How would you test this mcs safe home for

mold?

>

>

> Robin: I live the night mare of chronic illness on a daily basis in two

ways. (1) Fortunately I only suffer from osteoarthritis. (2) However, I have

been involved as an expert and have published on injury from toxic exposure

since approximately 1985. I have seen much suffering. What I meant with my

statement is that we must all awaken to the fact that the International Monetary

Fund does rule the World. When President Obama received 56 million from a

pharmaceutical company for his campaign, then who do you think he owes is

allegiance to? Certainly not the injured. Worker's Compensation does not take

care of the workers injured by toxic exposures. The insurance companies, ACOEM.

CDC, EPA and other such organizations do not want the chronic illness resulting

from WDB to be exposed. Think about it. The Shoemakers, Grays, Hopes, Reas,

etc. are chastised and called quacks. Why? They speak the truth.

>