Re: Emotional Pain

[Guest guest]

Tug,

listen to me please, I had it my car too. I diluted ammonia with water and put

it in a spray bottle and spayed it into the air vents of my car and actually all

over the seats, wiped down the dash board, etc. Ammonia will kill it. If you can

handle the smell of ammonia it will work. I even put 1 cup of ammonia in my bath

water and breath in the fumes while in the tub within reason. DON'T over do it.

You know your body. Also your clothes, anything wool, throw away you cannot

save wool. Any books that were in the house throw away. Most curtains, bed

sheets can be saved also by washing in ammonia, if they are not wool. DO NOT

over do the ammonia...only 1 cup in wash with reg washing powders is all it

takes although you may want to wash more than once. I washed about 5 times and

to this day I still add 1 cup of ammonia. Also consider that your washer and

dryer may be recontaminating your clothes. I had to buy a new set. And I could

not afford it, I had to

take my chances and pray God would lead me to a used set I could afford and

yet clean from ever being in a sick building and he did.  Keep all of your

clothes outside and  bring them in a load at a time and wash them with 1 cup of

ammonia with your regular washing powders. Then put them into a chest that has

been cleaned with soap water and then there is this mold cleaner you can get at

Lowe's. After washing the chest with soap and water, spray it down good with

Moldstat by Peroxy Kling (which you can get at Lowe's) and wiped it dry. Don't

give up! no matter what...even if your girlfriend breaks up with you, I know it

hurts but you have to be strong right now, so that you can help someone else

after you get through it. This is not in your head and you are not crazy. Keep

fighting, keep cleaning, think....about ways you may be cross contaminating, try

to think....I know its foggy. Be brave, you will beat this! I will pray for

you. You are not

alone.

From: Tug <tug_slug@...>

Subject: [] Emotional Pain

Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 8:50 PM

My g/f finally broke up with me so I had to move in with my sister and Im

getting sick here as well. My truck is giving me headaches and all my clothes

are contaminated. Why should any one person have to suffer like this, how much

pain do I have to endure before this stops?

I planned on getting an apartment next week but what would be the sense of

signing a lease and only having to break it because my truck cross contaminated

the apartment? As long as my trucks contaminated no matter where I go it'll

follow me.

I feel so helpless and all alone, theres not anyone I can talk to who can guide

me in the right direction and the one person who gave me the strength to get

through all of this from the very beginning wont take my calls or answer my

emails.

I knew that my relationship was over the minute we found mold in the a/c coils

of her hvac but never in my wildest dreams did I ever thing the pain would be so

excruciating. Ive been in allot of relationships and had more than my fair share

of break ups but never in my life has one hurt this bad.

How do I tell her Im sorry, how do I tell her that I just need time to heal and

everything will work out?

[Guest guest]

How do you tell her YOUR sorry? It sounds like she doesnt care about your

opinions,your feelings or your relationship. Maybe if you dont call her or text

her and focus on getting your stuff together she will come back to you possibly

later. Either way you have got to get this soul stealing mold out of your life

and your life back together. Sorry but hit a raw nerve with me, sounds like what

happened to me. Toxic mold has taken everything from me. Now its time to rebuild

our lives. Better stronger than before. Like the bionic man:)

Rebuild brother, rebuild.

Elias

been there

From: Tug <tug_slug@...>

Subject: [] Emotional Pain

Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 5:50 PM

My g/f finally broke up with me so I had to move in with my sister and Im

getting sick here as well. My truck is giving me headaches and all my clothes

are contaminated. Why should any one person have to suffer like this, how much

pain do I have to endure before this stops?

[Guest guest]

The concept that " killing " mold doesn't help, because " dead " mold can make us

just as sick as live [viable] mold, has been discussed to death on this board.

As my father died from a 2 year mold exposure from his car, I feel that this

gives me the right to voice my following opinion [please, no " fan club'

letters].

When we finally located the " reservoir " [main source] of mold, in the car, it

turned out to be mold growing beneath the floor carpeting. This " mold farm " was

kept well-watered by a hole in the partition between the engine compartment and

the passenger compartment. Through this hole flowed a fresh supply of water,

each time it rained, and each time the car went through a car wash. Even though

the water was not visible, as the carpeting covered the water, you could " feel "

the wetness of the carpeting, by touching it.

In any mold infestation, whether in a car, or in a home, there is usually one or

more " mold reservoirs " , which, due to the constant availability of water or

condensation, at that spot, turn that spot(s)into a " mold farm " . From our " mold

farms " , a constant " plume " of mold spores, mycotoxins, bacteria, and other

pathogens [stuff that makes us sick, as " reactors " ] emanates, 24 hours a day, 7

days a week.

By spraying, or washing, the entire car, with ammonia or peroxide, etc., we are

only removing [with towels or paper towels] the colonies of mold that have

landed on surfaces, from the plume. We have NOT located and REMOVED [not killed]

the mold farms that are the " mother ship " of these " aliens " that have the

ability to make us sick, while not bothering our loved ones in the slightest.

So, the next time someone looks at you, as if you are describimg " little green

men from Mars [aliens] " , when you talk to them about mold, don't let it upset

you.

If getting rid of mold was as easy as being the " happy housewife " in T.V.

commercials, who dances around her kitchen spraying the air with the latest

" miracle product " , we would not all be so damn sick.

God Bless, Joe

.........................................

>

> Tug,

> listen to me please, I had it my car too. I diluted ammonia with water and put

it in a spray bottle and spayed it into the air vents of my car and actually all

over the seats, wiped down the dash board, etc. Ammonia will kill it. If you can

handle the smell of ammonia it will work. I even put 1 cup of ammonia in my bath

water and breath in the fumes while in the tub within reason. DON'T over do it.

You know your body. Also your clothes, anything wool, throw away you cannot

save wool. Any books that were in the house throw away. Most curtains, bed

sheets can be saved also by washing in ammonia, if they are not wool. DO NOT

over do the ammonia...only 1 cup in wash with reg washing powders is all it

takes although you may want to wash more than once. I washed about 5 times and

to this day I still add 1 cup of ammonia. Also consider that your washer and

dryer may be recontaminating your clothes. I had to buy a new set. And I could

not afford it, I had to

> take my chances and pray God would lead me to a used set I could afford and

yet clean from ever being in a sick building and he did.  Keep all of your

clothes outside and  bring them in a load at a time and wash them with 1 cup of

ammonia with your regular washing powders. Then put them into a chest that has

been cleaned with soap water and then there is this mold cleaner you can get at

Lowe's. After washing the chest with soap and water, spray it down good with

Moldstat by Peroxy Kling (which you can get at Lowe's) and wiped it dry. Don't

give up! no matter what...even if your girlfriend breaks up with you, I know it

hurts but you have to be strong right now, so that you can help someone else

after you get through it. This is not in your head and you are not crazy. Keep

fighting, keep cleaning, think....about ways you may be cross contaminating, try

to think....I know its foggy. Be brave, you will beat this! I will pray for

you. You are not

> alone.

[Guest guest]

Everyone has a right to speak up--but that doesnt mean we have to agree.

However, I do agree with this post (shocker!). You have a colorful way of

speaking, Joe, but I can't deny your passion. We've both lost fathers in ways

that have hurt us; I feel empathy for you. Wouldn't it be nice if " killing " mold

were as simple as Mr. Clean coming in and saving the day?

On Oct 22, 2010, at 3:46 PM, " joe " <josephsalowitz@...> wrote:

The concept that " killing " mold doesn't help, because " dead " mold can make us

just as sick as live [viable] mold, has been discussed to death on this board.

As my father died from a 2 year mold exposure from his car, I feel that this

gives me the right to voice my following opinion [please, no " fan club'

letters].

[Guest guest]

I'm so sorry Tug, I can hardly bear to read this. I fear this is happening to

me. I'm tired of living in fear. I wish there was something I could do for you.

>

> My g/f finally broke up with me so I had to move in with my sister and Im

getting sick here as well. My truck is giving me headaches and all my clothes

are contaminated. Why should any one person have to suffer like this, how much

pain do I have to endure before this stops?

>

> I planned on getting an apartment next week but what would be the sense of

signing a lease and only having to break it because my truck cross contaminated

the apartment? As long as my trucks contaminated no matter where I go it'll

follow me.

>

> I feel so helpless and all alone, theres not anyone I can talk to who can

guide me in the right direction and the one person who gave me the strength to

get through all of this from the very beginning wont take my calls or answer my

emails.

>

> I knew that my relationship was over the minute we found mold in the a/c coils

of her hvac but never in my wildest dreams did I ever thing the pain would be so

excruciating. Ive been in allot of relationships and had more than my fair share

of break ups but never in my life has one hurt this bad.

>

> How do I tell her Im sorry, how do I tell her that I just need time to heal

and everything will work out?

>

[Guest guest]

i was also told to use ammonia 1 cup in wash but separate from detergent.. so

two washes. There is a MD who focuses on mold illness who suggested this to a

new friend I met with mold illness who is doing well after relocating from mold

home.

robin

.........

>

>

> >

> > Tug,

> > listen to me please, I had it my car too. I diluted ammonia with water and

put it in a spray bottle and spayed it into the air vents of my car and actually

all over the seats, wiped down the dash board, etc. Ammonia will kill it. If you

can handle the smell of ammonia it will work. I even put 1 cup of ammonia in my

bath water and breath in the fumes while in the tub within reason. DON'T over

do it. You know your body. Also your clothes, anything wool, throw away you

cannot save wool. Any books that were in the house throw away. Most curtains,

bed sheets can be saved also by washing in ammonia, if they are not wool. DO

NOT over do the ammonia...only 1 cup in wash with reg washing powders is all it

takes although you may want to wash more than once. I washed about 5 times and

to this day I still add 1 cup of ammonia. Also consider that your washer and

dryer may be recontaminating your clothes. I had to buy a new set. And I could

not afford it, I had to

> > take my chances and pray God would lead me to a used set I could afford

and yet clean from ever being in a sick building and he did.  Keep all of

your clothes outside and  bring them in a load at a time and wash them with 1

cup of ammonia with your regular washing powders. Then put them into a chest

that has been cleaned with soap water and then there is this mold cleaner you

can get at Lowe's. After washing the chest with soap and water, spray it down

good with Moldstat by Peroxy Kling (which you can get at Lowe's) and wiped it

dry. Don't give up! no matter what...even if your girlfriend breaks up with you,

I know it hurts but you have to be strong right now, so that you can help

someone else after you get through it. This is not in your head and you are not

crazy. Keep fighting, keep cleaning, think....about ways you may be cross

contaminating, try to think....I know its foggy. Be brave, you will

beat this! I will pray for you. You are not

> > alone.

>

[Guest guest]

You know what makes me the most angry when I read these posts of tragic

loss over this issue? The vast majority of the misery is senselessly and

cruelly unnecessary. If people just knew or physicians just knew that when

faced we these symptoms, look to the environment as a possible cause. Ask if

one has mold in their environment. That's why I have been harping since

2004 and will continue to harp " teach the doctors how to recognize, diagnose

and treat mycotic diseases. " If people knew to get away, early, before

the adverse effects were irreversible; and building owners knew the potential

adverse health effects that are caused if they don't take care of their

buildings, most of these tragic losses would not even be.

Mold doesn't kill people. Deceit for the sake of money does.

Sharon

In a message dated 10/23/2010 4:57:58 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

advocate_now@... writes:

Everyone has a right to speak up--but that doesnt mean we have to agree.

However, I do agree with this post (shocker!). You have a colorful way of

speaking, Joe, but I can't deny your passion. We've both lost fathers in ways

that have hurt us; I feel empathy for you. Wouldn't it be nice if

" killing " mold were as simple as Mr. Clean coming in and saving the day?

On Oct 22, 2010, at 3:46 PM, " joe " <_josephsalowitz@..._

(mailto:josephsalowitz@...) > wrote:

The concept that " killing " mold doesn't help, because " dead " mold can make

us just as sick as live [viable] mold, has been discussed to death on this

board. As my father died from a 2 year mold exposure from his car, I feel

that this gives me the right to voice my following opinion [please, no " fan

club' letters].

[Guest guest]

Robin I never thought about doing it that way. Either way I've washed my clothes

4 times in detergent, borax and ammonia and have been wearing them without any

problems. The longer I stay at my sisters house the better Im feeling. The

muscles spasms are gone, same with the swelling in my two little fingers and

ring finger, the debilitating nausea that I had for the last to weeks at my old

g/f's house is non existent and the brain fog has gotten better. My gums are

still getting tender in spots but hopefully it'll just be a matter of time till

that clears up and of course the big one... the broken heart but that has

nothing to do with mold... ugh

>

> i was also told to use ammonia 1 cup in wash but separate from detergent.. so

two washes. There is a MD who focuses on mold illness who suggested this to a

new friend I met with mold illness who is doing well after relocating from mold

home.

>

> robin

[Guest guest]

D its like watching a train wreck in slow motion. You can see it coming, you

know its going to happen and no matter what you do theres nothing you can do to

stop it. Now matter how well you prepare for it its never enough. Worst of all

theres nothing anyone can do to stop the pain so you just live with it and hope

tomorrow will be a better day.

>

> I'm so sorry Tug, I can hardly bear to read this. I fear this is happening to

me. I'm tired of living in fear. I wish there was something I could do for you.

[Guest guest]

I agree with this post except that person was referring to 'cross contamination'

of vehicle, rather than a car that is moldy for it's own reasons. For cross

contamination, method described is reasonable. Different situation, different

solution. People shouldn't feel if they put something from a moldy home in

their car, the car is ruined. That might be the case for severe reactors

certainly but not the usual case. This was a question of cross contamination.

Maybe another car would be great if you can afford that. Buying a new used car,

you can just end up with someone else's mold problem that they didn't know

about. So many people are clueless about this and live in contaminated houses

themselves and don't know it.

>

> The concept that " killing " mold doesn't help, because " dead " mold can make us

just as sick as live [viable] mold, has been discussed to death on this board.

As my father died from a 2 year mold exposure from his car, I feel that this

gives me the right to voice my following opinion [please, no " fan club'

letters].

>

[Guest guest]

Nicely put Sharon, I am borrowing that last line

The concept that " killing " mold doesn't help, because " dead " mold can make

us just as sick as live [viable] mold, has been discussed to death on this

board. As my father died from a 2 year mold exposure from his car, I feel

that this gives me the right to voice my following opinion [please, no " fan

club' letters].

[Guest guest]

Oh that's a great point. I didn't get that the person was talking about cross

contamination.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 23, 2010, at 12:52 PM, " barb b w " <barb1283@...> wrote:

I agree with this post except that person was referring to 'cross contamination'

of vehicle, rather than a car that is moldy for it's own reasons. For cross

contamination, method described is reasonable. Different situation, different

solution. People shouldn't feel if they put something from a moldy home in their

car, the car is ruined. That might be the case for severe reactors certainly but

not the usual case. This was a question of cross contamination. Maybe another

car would be great if you can afford that. Buying a new used car, you can just

end up with someone else's mold problem that they didn't know about. So many

people are clueless about this and live in contaminated houses themselves and

don't know it.

>

> The concept that " killing " mold doesn't help, because " dead " mold can make us

just as sick as live [viable] mold, has been discussed to death on this board.

As my father died from a 2 year mold exposure from his car, I feel that this

gives me the right to voice my following opinion [please, no " fan club'

letters].

>

[Guest guest]

Sharon we've talked ghawed only knows how many time either via email or on the

phone and I can honestly say this has ruined my life. Im fighting something I

cant see, something that has taken someone very near and dear to me. It's not

just me that has had to endure such a huge loss its 99.9% of the people on this

board.

Granted theres many of us who dont get along on this board and have gone toe to

toe over what would be trivial things but we all have several things in common.

We have become hypersensitive to mold and have lost everything that means

anything to us but we get up every morning with the hope of today being that one

day that we overcome our hypersensitivity.

I feel as though I have been given the greatest gift from God when I moved back

into my sisters house. For the second day in a row my health feels as though its

improved and Im actually getting better. Had I had a reaction here and not

having anywhere else to go coupled with my break up I think the stress and

depression would have been to much to handle and I wouldnt be here today to

create this post.

Please understand Im not suicidal but were all human and we all have our

breaking point and I know for a fact Wednesday morning I was as close to my

breaking point as I have ever been.

>

> You know what makes me the most angry when I read these posts of tragic

> loss over this issue? The vast majority of the misery is senselessly and

> cruelly unnecessary. If people just knew or physicians just knew that when

> faced we these symptoms, look to the environment as a possible cause. Ask if

> one has mold in their environment. That's why I have been harping since

> 2004 and will continue to harp " teach the doctors how to recognize, diagnose

> and treat mycotic diseases. " If people knew to get away, early, before

> the adverse effects were irreversible; and building owners knew the potential

> adverse health effects that are caused if they don't take care of their

> buildings, most of these tragic losses would not even be.

>

> Mold doesn't kill people. Deceit for the sake of money does.

>

> Sharon

[Guest guest]

Thanks. This issue is not about the science and it hasn't been for a long

time. I know I have it somewhere in my computer - documents that the late

Cheri Bruner compiled of documents regarding mold induced illnesses that

became classified in the early 2000's. They KNOW exactly what is occurring.

It doesn't matter if one was made sick in a building, on a farm or on the

moon. Mold induced illnesses is mold induced illnesses. And the soup that

occurs in confined spaces of a building - and it just adds to what " they "

already know.

What it is really about, is who controls what is taught in medical

universities regarding these illnesses. And unfortunately, a big part to that

answer is the medical proponents of workers comp insurers.

In a message dated 10/23/2010 6:28:54 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

kmtown2003@... writes:

Nicely put Sharon, I am borrowing that last line

From: _snk1955@..._ (mailto:snk1955@...) <_snk1955@..._

(mailto:snk1955@...) >

Subject: Re: [] Re: Emotional Pain

_ _ (mailto: )

Date: Saturday, October 23, 2010, 9:27 AM

You know what makes me the most angry when I read these posts of tragic

loss over this issue? The vast majority of the misery is senselessly and

cruelly unnecessary. If people just knew or physicians just knew that when

faced we these symptoms, look to the environment as a possible cause. Ask

if

one has mold in their environment. That's why I have been harping since

2004 and will continue to harp " teach the doctors how to recognize,

diagnose

and treat mycotic diseases. " If people knew to get away, early, before

the adverse effects were irreversible; and building owners knew the

potential

adverse health effects that are caused if they don't take care of their

buildings, most of these tragic losses would not even be.

Mold doesn't kill people. Deceit for the sake of money does.

Sharon

In a message dated 10/23/2010 4:57:58 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

_advocate_now@..._ (mailto:advocate_now@...) writes:

Everyone has a right to speak up--but that doesnt mean we have to agree.

However, I do agree with this post (shocker!). You have a colorful way of

speaking, Joe, but I can't deny your passion. We've both lost fathers in

ways

that have hurt us; I feel empathy for you. Wouldn't it be nice if

" killing " mold were as simple as Mr. Clean coming in and saving the day?

On Oct 22, 2010, at 3:46 PM, " joe " <__josephsalowitz@..._

(mailto:_josephsalowitz@...) _

(mailto:_josephsalowitz@..._ (mailto:josephsalowitz@...) ) >

wrote:

The concept that " killing " mold doesn't help, because " dead " mold can make

us just as sick as live [viable] mold, has been discussed to death on this

board. As my father died from a 2 year mold exposure from his car, I feel

that this gives me the right to voice my following opinion [please, no

" fan

club' letters].

[Guest guest]

This is a somewhat morbid reply. But sometimes it helps one to see the

bright side of their lives to realize that there are others more devastated,

who have NO CHANCE to put it back together:

A Grim Portrait of Civilian Deaths in Iraq

By SABRINA TAVERNISE and ANDREW W. LEHREN

Published: October 22, 2010

The reports in the archive disclosed by WikiLeaks offer an incomplete, yet

startlingly graphic portrait of one of the most contentious issues in the

Iraq war — how many Iraqi civilians have been killed and by whom.

The reports make it clear that most civilians, by far, were killed by other

Iraqis. Two of the worst days of the war came on Aug. 31, 2005, when a

stampede on a bridge in Baghdad killed more than 950 people after several

earlier attacks panicked a huge crowd, and on Aug. 14, 2007, when truck bombs

killed more than 500 people in a rural area near the border with Syria.

But it was systematic sectarian cleansing that drove the killing to its

most frenzied point, making December 2006 the worst month of the war,

according to the reports, with about 3,800 civilians killed, roughly equal to

the

past seven years of murders in New York City. A total of about 1,300 police

officers, insurgents and coalition soldiers were also killed in that month.

The documents also reveal many previously unreported instances in which

American soldiers killed civilians — at checkpoints, from helicopters, in

operations. Such killings are a central reason Iraqis turned against the

American presence in their country, a situation that is now being repeated in

Afghanistan.

The archive contains reports on at least four cases of lethal shootings

from helicopters. In the bloodiest, on July 16, 2007, as many as 26 Iraqis

were killed, about half of them civilians. However, the tally was called in by

two different people, and it is possible that the deaths were counted

twice. _Read the Document »_ (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/world/iraq-

war-logs.html#report/D1B9DF91-B9EA-1B93-2DA80B02B6F9F5CE)

In another case, in February 2007, an Apache helicopter shot and killed two

Iraqi men believed to have been firing mortars, even though they made

surrendering motions, because, according to a military lawyer cited in the

report, “they cannot surrender to aircraft, and are still valid targets.â€

_Read the Document »_

(http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/world/iraq-war-logs.html#report/E8DE9B9F-E46\

8-B587-E4B332C09FF48BE2)

The shooting was unusual. In at least three other instances reported in the

archive, Iraqis surrendered to helicopter crews without being shot. The

Pentagon did not respond to questions from The Times about the rules of

engagement for the helicopter strike.

The pace of civilian deaths served as a kind of pulse, whose steady beat

told of the success, or failure, of America’s war effort. Americans on both

sides of the war debate argued bitterly over facts that grew hazier as the

war deepened.

The archive does not put that argument to rest by giving a precise count.

As a 2008 report to Congress on the topic makes clear, the figures serve as

“guideposts,’ not hard totals. But it does seem to suggest numbers that

are roughly in line with those compiled by several sources, including _Iraq

Body Count_ (http://www.iraqbodycount.org/) , an organization that tracked

civilian deaths using press reports, a method the Bush administration

repeatedly derided as unreliable and producing inflated numbers. In all, the

five-year archive lists more than 100,000 dead from 2004 to 2009, though some

deaths are reported more than once, and some reports have inconsistent

casualty figures. A 2008 Congressional report warned that record keeping in the

war had been so problematic that such statistics should be looked at only as

“guideposts.â€

In a statement on Friday, Iraq Body Count, which did a preliminary analysis

of the archive, estimated that it listed 15,000 deaths that had not been

previously disclosed anywhere.

The archive tells thousands of individual stories of loss whose

consequences are still being felt in Iraqi families today.

Misunderstandings at checkpoints were often lethal. At one Marine

checkpoint, sunlight glinting off a windshield of a car that did not slow down

led

to the shooting death of a mother and the wounding of three of her daughters

and her husband. Hand signals flashed to stop vehicles were often not

understood, and soldiers and _Marines_

(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/m/us_marine_c\

orps/index.html?inline=nyt-org) ,

who without interpreters were unable to speak to the survivors, were left to

wonder why. _Read the Document »_

(http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/world/iraq-war-logs.html#report/0DB5B033-313\

1-4080-822E-8B0FAD1C1764)

According to one particularly painful entry from 2006, an Iraqi wearing a

tracksuit was killed by an American sniper who later discovered that the

victim was the platoon’s interpreter. _Read the Document »_

(http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/world/iraq-war-logs.html#report/C8BAD3DC-EFC\

0-46D0-A5B9-599

7CF9EFC1E)

The archive’s data is incomplete. The documents were compiled with an

emphasis on speed rather than accuracy; the goal was to spread information as

quickly as possible among units. American soldiers did not respond to every

incident.

And even when Americans were at the center of the action, as in the western

city of Falluja in 2004, none of the Iraqis they killed were categorized

as civilians. In the early years of the war, the Pentagon maintained that it

did not track Iraqi civilian deaths, but it began releasing rough counts

in 2005, after members of Congress demanded a more detailed accounting on

the state of the war. In one instance in 2008, the Pentagon used reports

similar to the newly released documents to tabulate the war dead.

This month, _The Associated Press reported_

(http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/15/world/middleeast/15iraq.html) that the

Pentagon in July had quietly

posted its fullest tally of the death toll of Iraqi civilians and security

forces ever, numbers that were first requested in 2005 through the Freedom of

Information Act. It was not clear why the total — 76,939 Iraqi civilians

and members of the security forces killed between January 2004 and August

2008 — was significantly less than the sum of the archive’s death count.

The archive does not have a category for the main causes of Iraqi deaths

inflicted by Americans. Compared with the situation in Afghanistan, in Iraq

aerial bombings seemed to be less frequently a cause of civilian deaths,

after the initial invasion. The reports were only as good as the soldiers

calling them in. One of the most infamous episodes of killings by American

soldiers, the shootings of at least 15 Iraqi civilians, including women and

children in the western city of Haditha, is misrepresented in the archives.

The report stated that the civilians were killed by militants in a bomb

attack, the same false version of the episode that was given to the news media.

Civilians have borne the brunt of modern warfare, with 10 civilians dying

for every soldier in wars fought since the mid-20th century, compared with 9

soldiers killed for every civilian in World War I, according to a 2001

study by the International Committee of the Red Cross.

In a message dated 10/23/2010 6:37:01 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

tug_slug@... writes:

Sharon we've talked ghawed only knows how many time either via email or on

the phone and I can honestly say this has ruined my life. Im fighting

something I cant see, something that has taken someone very near and dear to

me. It's not just me that has had to endure such a huge loss its 99.9% of the

people on this board.

Granted theres many of us who dont get along on this board and have gone

toe to toe over what would be trivial things but we all have several things

in common. We have become hypersensitive to mold and have lost everything

that means anything to us but we get up every morning with the hope of today

being that one day that we overcome our hypersensitivity.

I feel as though I have been given the greatest gift from God when I moved

back into my sisters house. For the second day in a row my health feels as

though its improved and Im actually getting better. Had I had a reaction

here and not having anywhere else to go coupled with my break up I think the

stress and depression would have been to much to handle and I wouldnt be

here today to create this post.

Please understand Im not suicidal but were all human and we all have our

breaking point and I know for a fact Wednesday morning I was as close to my

breaking point as I have ever been.

[Guest guest]

So glad to hear you are feeling better. My friend told me he doesnt know how it

works and if it works but he does it. He is doing well or was last time I spoke

with him with some lingering gut issues.

Did i read on this list or another one that ammonia might denature toxins? Not

sure where i read this.. but someone put that out there right or wrong.

Ive hit a wall. This house has to be ok.. outside air is questionable and

hopefully its part of the process. Very weak with little muscle recovery.

Robin

> >

> > i was also told to use ammonia 1 cup in wash but separate from detergent..

so two washes. There is a MD who focuses on mold illness who suggested this to a

new friend I met with mold illness who is doing well after relocating from mold

home.

> >

> > robin

>

[Guest guest]

I used the ammonia with my regular washing powders. Just don't use ammonia and

bleach at the same time or washing powders that have bleach in it. And I

understand what Joe is saying about killing mold, this ammonia thing is to be

used after of the main source of the problem has been resolved because he's

right until the source is found and resolved the ammonia will not kill it. A

doctor who studied mold for the army told me about it and someone else mentioned

it to me from this group about a year &  1/2 go. I can not promise it will work

for anyone but I can say it did work for me and for the record Joe, I was no

happy housewife running around lightly spraying and singing, I was very sick and

scrubbing what little I had been able to keep .

 

From: listspub <listspub@...>

Subject: [] Re: Emotional Pain

Date: Saturday, October 23, 2010, 2:38 AM

 

i was also told to use ammonia 1 cup in wash but separate from detergent.. so

two washes. There is a MD who focuses on mold illness who suggested this to a

new friend I met with mold illness who is doing well after relocating from mold

home.

robin

.........

[Guest guest]

Tug....did that cup of ammonia in your washing powders help get your clothes to

where you could wear them again?

From: Tug <tug_slug@...>

Subject: [] Re: Emotional Pain

Date: Saturday, October 23, 2010, 4:32 PM

 

Sharon we've talked ghawed only knows how many time either via email or on the

phone and I can honestly say this has ruined my life. Im fighting something I

cant see, something that has taken someone very near and dear to me. It's not

just me that has had to endure such a huge loss its 99.9% of the people on this

board.

Granted theres many of us who dont get along on this board and have gone toe to

toe over what would be trivial things but we all have

[Guest guest]

It's good to hear you're getting healthier in your sister's house, Tug. It may

be true that your sensitivity to mold destroyed the life you had, but it hasn't

destroyed the new life you will put together, away from mold. It has also showed

you who really cares about you for who you are, no matter what: your sister.

>

>

>

> I feel as though I have been given the greatest gift from God when I moved

back into my sisters house. For the second day in a row my health feels as

though its improved and Im actually getting better. Had I had a reaction here

and not having anywhere else to go coupled with my break up I think the stress

and depression would have been to much to handle and I wouldnt be here today to

create this post.

>

> Please understand Im not suicidal but were all human and we all have our

breaking point and I know for a fact Wednesday morning I was as close to my

breaking point as I have ever been.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes it does. We're all got sick. Some sicker than others. Sadly some didn't make

it. We have to see the beauty left in our lives. Look out at the sun each

morning. See what is good. Listen to the birds singing, look at how pretty the

sky is when it's clear. Look at the changing leaves. Look at little kids

laughing & playing without worry.  Remember a happy carefree time in our lives.

I'm not doing well either,  but I have to see the good  I'm so sorry for you

Dave & all of us.  My religion teaches me,  what a gift suffering is. It's

hard  to understand when we're suffering.  

We need to offer it up for our healing, others who are sick, souls in need.

We'll be rewarded for all we had  to go through. The message is to keep your

faith. Pray for strength. Take one day at a time.

We have to see the light through the end of the tunnel. It's there & it will get

easier to see in time. Make peace with your God. He's there, watching over you.

God Bless,  Kathy 

 <snk1955@...: Re: [] Re: Emotional Pain

 

This is a somewhat morbid reply. But sometimes it helps one to see the

bright side of their lives to realize that there are others more devastated,

who have NO CHANCE to put it back together:

A Grim Portrait of Civilian Deaths in Iraq

By SABRINA TAVERNISE and ANDREW W. LEHREN

Published: October 22, 2010

The reports in the archive disclosed by WikiLeaks offer an incomplete, yet

startlingly graphic portrait of one of the most contentious issues in the

Iraq war — how many Iraqi civilians have been killed and by whom.

The reports make it clear that most civilians, by far, were killed by other

Iraqis.

[Guest guest]

Robin, a researcher and pathologist of toxins, I believe afloxtoxin specificall,

has written that ammonia denatred or deactivates these toxins. (pls excse m

tping as m compter keboard broke toda on laptop so I cannot replace this easil).

Anwa, wehter the ammonia can reach the toxin in pholster and whether his std is

accrate, no wa to tell, bt as sal limited information disseminiated on this, so

we go b what we have. I pt it in wash, pt it in bleach recepticle instead of

bleach. Man feel it helps bt some have troble with smelling the ammonia itself.

>

> So glad to hear you are feeling better. My friend told me he doesnt know how

it works and if it works but he does it. He is doing well or was last time I

spoke with him with some lingering gut issues.

>

> Did i read on this list or another one that ammonia might denature toxins?

Not sure where i read this.. but someone put that out there right or wrong.

>

> Ive hit a wall. This house has to be ok.. outside air is questionable and

hopefully its part of the process. Very weak with little muscle recovery.

>

> Robin

>

[Guest guest]

, Ive washed my clothes 4 times in the past 4 days at a laundry mat with

All free and clear detergent, Borax and Ammonia and it appears everything is ok.

There was one fruit of the loom t-shirt that was hanging in the closet during

the contamination that whenever i took a whiff of it I had an adverse reaction

even after the fourth washing. Beings it was a cheap shirt rather than wash it

over and over again I just threw it away.

Also, Im wearing a new t-shirt every night when I go to bed, if any of the

shirts that I washed aren't completely mold free the last thing I want to do is

breath any mold spores all night long and possibility contaminate the bed. I

have a carhart jacket and 3 pair of carhart pairs of pants that I've washed over

and over again. Im sure the jacket isnt going to be a problem beings it was in

the garage with a plastic bag draped over it the entire time I lived in the WDB

but the pants might be. When I washed them and took them out of the dryer I left

them out while I folded my laundry and didn't notice any adverse effects so Im

assuming there ok but wont know for sure till the weather turns colder and I'll

have to wear them. Another precaution Ive taken is bought 3 air tight plastic

containers and keep all my clothes in them in the garage. This house is safe for

me that last thing I want to do is drag my clothes in and brings whatever is

making me sick with them.

I was once told diligence is the key to cleaning my environment and becoming

healthy again. I had no idea of how extreme I was going to have to be till now.

Please keep in mind that Im not nearly as sensitive as most and to the best of

my knowledge the only chemicals that bother me are fabric softener and scented

dryer sheets. Your experience may differ.

>

> Tug....did that cup of ammonia in your washing powders help get your clothes

to where you could wear them again?

>

>

[Guest guest]

A week or two out in the sun and fresh air has been working for me. Sometimes my

Mom will give me some hand me downs that smell moldy and if the clothing is

really worth it I will wash and then hang outside for a week or two of airing.

Usually does the trick-some fabrics are exceptions and nothing will help so I

throw those out or give them away.

> >

> > Tug....did that cup of ammonia in your washing powders� help get your

clothes to where you could wear them again?

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The person who posted the first email reference to " cross-contamination " of a

vehicle, is making the " ASSUMPTION " that his mold reaction is due to

" cross-contamination " of his vehicle, FROM mold growing in his home. In my own

personal case of mold exposure from my car, I can tell you that there was no

way, whatsoever, that I could differentiate between " cross-contamination " and " a

reservoir of mold " growing " in the car. It wasn't until a passenger, in the car

said: " what smells " , did I finally realize that my case WAS NOT a case of

cross-contamination from my home. I have a genetically-based lack of a sense of

smell. The rule of thumb is, " if it SMELLS, it's GROWING; if it doesn't smell,

it might be [just] cross-contamination. There is no way to make the source

judgement based on the intensity of sickness that you feel. Once your body has

" learned " to react to mold, mycotoxins, bacteria, pathogens, etc., you will get

equally intensely sick from either source [growing OR cross-contaminated with

mold spores and mycotoxins]. The first thing you need to do, is get someone with

a highly sensitive sense of smell to " smell-around " your car or home. If they

can smell ANYTHING, it means it's GROWING, and can not be eliminated by spraying

or fogging or " wiping down " . IT MUST BE REMOVED PHYSICALLY.

Joe

>

> I agree with this post except that person was referring to 'cross

contamination' of vehicle, rather than a car that is moldy for it's own reasons.

For cross contamination, method described is reasonable. Different situation,

different solution. People shouldn't feel if they put something from a moldy

home in their car, the car is ruined. That might be the case for severe

reactors certainly but not the usual case. This was a question of cross

contamination. Maybe another car would be great if you can afford that. Buying

a new used car, you can just end up with someone else's mold problem that they

didn't know about. So many people are clueless about this and live in

contaminated houses themselves and don't know it.

[Guest guest]

 Hi Sharon,

 

Keep the faith. This article was just published. Even doctors and scientists who

don't have much of a brain, DO possess a nose. Maybe they will follow their nose

to the understanding that a lot of what they are labeling " asthma " , is really a

" toxic " mold reaction. Things are getting better every day. The word is getting

out.

 

God Bless,

Joe

....................................................................

 

Science of The Total Environment

Volume 408, Issue 22, 15 October 2010, Pages 5565-5574

doi:10.1016/j.scitotenv.2010.07.090 

 Visually observed mold and moldy odor versus quantitatively measured microbial

exposure in homes 

References and further reading may be available for this article. To view

references and further reading you must purchase this article.

Tiina Reponen, Umesh Singh, Schaffer, Vesper, bet Johansson,

Atin Adhikari, Sergey A. Grinshpun, Reshmi Indugula, , Levin

and

 Grace LeMasters

 University of Cincinnati, Department of Environmental Health, Cincinnati, OH,

45267, USA

US Environmental Protection Agency, Cincinnati, OH, 45268, USA

 

Abstract

The main study objective was to compare different methods for assessing mold

exposure in conjunction with an epidemiologic study on the development of

children's asthma. Homes of 184 children were assessed for mold by visual

observations and dust sampling at child's age 1 (Year 1). Similar assessment

supplemented with air sampling was conducted in Year 7. Samples were analyzed

for endotoxin, (1–3)-β-D-glucan, and fungal spores. The Mold Specific

Quantitative Polymerase Chain Reaction assay was used to analyze 36 mold species

in dust samples, and the Environmental Relative Moldiness Index (ERMI) was

calculated. Homes were categorized based on three criteria: 1) visible mold

damage, 2) moldy odor, and 3) ERMI. Even for homes where families had not moved,

Year 7 endotoxin and (1–3)-β-d-glucan exposures were significantly higher

than those in Year 1 (p < 0.001), whereas no difference was seen for ERMI

(p = 0.78). Microbial concentrations were not

consistently associated with visible mold damage categories, but were

consistently higher in homes with moldy odor and in homes that had high ERMI.

Low correlations between results in air and dust samples indicate different

types or durations of potential microbial exposures from dust vs. air. Future

analysis will indicate which, if any, of the assessment methods is associated

with the development of asthma.

 

http://tinyurl.com/2cr2j25

....................................................................... 

Sharon Wrote: 

You know what makes me the most angry when I read these posts of tragic

loss over this issue? The vast majority of the misery is senselessly and

cruelly unnecessary.