Re: Re: Attic insulation - crawl space remediation

[Guest guest]

Carl,

How does one best remediate a crawl space with an earth floor, brick and around

the perimeter and wood subfloor and two by fours above?  

Thanks,Sam

Vapor barriers installed correctly for the climate and building type can

prevent mold. You need someone who knows how. But first you need appropriate

remediation. Get the bad stuff out so they can see what's going on. From the

way you have described the situation this not a job for a handyman or the

inexperienced.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

(fm my Blackberry)

[Guest guest]

Sam,

Remediate implies mold growth. Is that what needs to be done or are you looking

at prevention which includes a barrier? If a barrier is involved the brick is a

complication.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

(fm my Blackberry)

Re: [] Re: Attic insulation - crawl space remediation

Carl,

How does one best remediate a crawl space with an earth floor, brick and around

the perimeter and wood subfloor and two by fours above?  

Thanks,Sam

Vapor barriers installed correctly for the climate and building type can

prevent mold. You need someone who knows how. But first you need appropriate

remediation. Get the bad stuff out so they can see what's going on. From the

way you have described the situation this not a job for a handyman or the

inexperienced.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

(fm my Blackberry)

[Guest guest]

Thanks for replying Carl,

Yes. Among other damage in the house there is some areas of mold growth found on

bricks and cement and insulation. Plus, our old vapor barrior was just laid flat

on the ground and never was taped to the walls. Has been crinkled up but

covering most of the earthen floor, but you know figuring that the vapor barrier

alone has been that way for 30+ years (we;ve been in house for 7 of them) that

there'd be some significant mold issues there based on what has been discussed. 

I was thinking about the porous nature of brick and cement and the earthen floor

of the crawl space as well, as all being kind of difficult to clean up? Is that

so in your experience?

Thanks again,Sam

Sam,

Remediate implies mold growth. Is that what needs to be done or are you looking

at prevention which includes a barrier? If a barrier is involved the brick is a

complication.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

(fm my Blackberry)

[Guest guest]

Sam,

First realize that I can only provide general responses because I

don't have the specific details of your situation. Precise

responses depend on what is actually there and how the various

parts of it all interact.

Cleaning dirt floors is difficult at best. Usually only done because

of sewage flooding. The sewage is removed along with 6 inches

or more of the dirt, then treated with an appropriate disinfectant to

kill infectious organisms (not the same as mold!)

A true barrier as previously defined which is sealed as previouslty

defined does not require that the dirt first be cleaned.

Brick and cement are difficult to clean because of their uneven

and porous surfaces. But usually are not as big a problem as

other materials such as sheetrock. Brick and cement need the

" dirt " removed and the moisture stopped. If that can be

accomplished then no mold or bacteria will grow.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

Thanks for replying Carl,

Yes. Among other damage in the house there is some areas of mold

growth found on bricks and cement and insulation. Plus, our old vapor

barrior was just laid flat on the ground and never was taped to the walls.

Has been crinkled up but covering most of the earthen floor, but you

know figuring that the vapor barrier alone has been that way for 30+

years (we;ve been in house for 7 of them) that there'd be some significant

mold issues there based on what has been discussed.

I was thinking about the porous nature of brick and cement and the

earthen floor of the crawl space as well, as all being kind of difficult to

clean up? Is that so in your experience?

Thanks again,Sam

Sam,

Remediate implies mold growth. Is that what needs to be done or are you

looking at prevention which includes a barrier? If a barrier is involved

the brick is a complication.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

(fm my Blackberry)

[Guest guest]

Thanks very much Carl.

One more question. If I got it correct it was mentioned that if a vapor barrier

is lose, unattached to the walls so that is has just been laying on the earth

that this would most likely cause some moisture/mold growth underneath. If that

is true then would that also require removal of 6 inches of dirt and a

disinfectant applied? Would you have to test the soil to be sure? Or could you

just cover it up and seal it with a new barrier correctly? I'm guessing maybe

incorrectly that most soil has mold in it anyway?

Hope I haven't confused or belabored this issue. I do understand that we are

speaking generally.

Thanks again,

Sam

Cleaning dirt floors is difficult at best. Usually only done because

of sewage flooding. The sewage is removed along with 6 inches

or more of the dirt, then treated with an appropriate disinfectant to

kill infectious organisms (not the same as mold!)

<

[Guest guest]

Sam,

Any material laying on open dirt in a crawlspace will slow down

the evaporation of any moisture in the dirt, accumulating beneath

that material. Someone here recently suggested laying some

plastic on a concrete floor to see if moisture would accumulate

beneath that, for example.

Yes, almost all soil has mold and bacteria by the ka-Billions. Add

dampness and it can grow even more. Putting a loose barrier

over it " adds " the moisture and because the edges and seams

are not sealed there is a mixture of the moisture with air creating

great conditions supportive of mold growth. However, if the edges

and seams are properly sealed then there is insufficient air for

growth. Mold requires food, air, and moisture. Remove any one of

them and you stop it in its tracks.

Removal of 6 inches of soil isn't necessary in nearly all situations,

in my opinion, if the barrier is actually sealed and has a perm

rating of 1 or below.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

Thanks very much Carl.

One more question. If I got it correct it was mentioned that if a vapor

barrier is lose, unattached to the walls so that is has just been laying on

the earth that this would most likely cause some moisture/mold growth

underneath. If that is true then would that also require removal of 6

inches of dirt and a disinfectant applied? Would you have to test the soil

to be sure? Or could you just cover it up and seal it with a new barrier

correctly? I'm guessing maybe incorrectly that most soil has mold in it

anyway?

Hope I haven't confused or belabored this issue. I do understand that we

are speaking generally.

Thanks again,

Sam

Cleaning dirt floors is difficult at best. Usually only done because

of sewage flooding. The sewage is removed along with 6 inches

or more of the dirt, then treated with an appropriate disinfectant to

kill infectious organisms (not the same as mold!)

<

[Guest guest]

Carl,

Once again thank you very much for replying so thoughtfully and clarifying

this.I get it now. Sorry if I'm a bit slow on the uptake. I do really appreciate

your expertise and your continued help to us all on the list.

Thanks,

Sam

Yes, almost all soil has mold and bacteria by the ka-Billions. Add

dampness and it can grow even more. Putting a loose barrier

over it " adds " the moisture and because the edges and seams

are not sealed there is a mixture of the moisture with air creating

great conditions supportive of mold growth. However, if the edges

and seams are properly sealed then there is insufficient air for

growth. Mold requires food, air, and moisture. Remove any one of

them and you stop it in its tracks.