candida diet

[Guest guest]

Suzanne-

>My profoundest sympathies, ! I've had a corneal ulcer with

>pseudomonis <sp?> infection quite a few years back. No other agony

>quite that intense. Are you getting anything for the pain?

Nope. He gave me some lubricant drops (the first ingredient of which is

polyethylene glycol!) which were supposed to ease discomfort, and I even

tried them once because the pain was so excruciating, but they did

absolutely nothing.

-

[Guest guest]

Idol wrote:

>Suzanne-

>

>

>

>>My profoundest sympathies, ! I've had a corneal ulcer with

>>pseudomonis <sp?> infection quite a few years back. No other agony

>>quite that intense. Are you getting anything for the pain?

>>

>>

>

>Nope. He gave me some lubricant drops (the first ingredient of which is

>polyethylene glycol!) which were supposed to ease discomfort, and I even

>tried them once because the pain was so excruciating, but they did

>absolutely nothing.

>

>

>

>

I'm so sorry.

At this point in time, I'd be asking for codeine.....

--s

[Guest guest]

>-----Original Message-----

>From:

>[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Masterjohn

>

>I think the no fermented foods is based on the outdated idea that

>candida symptoms are in part caused by yeast allergy.

Why do you call that outdated?

I'm wondering because I read it somewhere recently, that you can develop a

cross-reaction to various yeasts the same way it's been newly discovered

that there can be a cross-reaction between gluten and candida since they

share some similar protein structure. Further, many folks who are allergic

to gluten are also often allergic to the other common allergens like casein,

soy and corn, for instance. So there seems to be some evidence that being

allergic to one protein may result in becoming sensitized to others that may

share some similarities with it.

Any thoughts?

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

On 9/10/05, Suze Fisher <s.fisher22@...> wrote:

> Why do you call that outdated?

Actually, instead of writing, " I think " I should have written " I

read. " I read that in an article. That said, I'm not sure why it

would make much sense that consuming fermented foods would prevent

healing the candida.

> I'm wondering because I read it somewhere recently, that you can develop a

> cross-reaction to various yeasts the same way it's been newly discovered

> that there can be a cross-reaction between gluten and candida since they

> share some similar protein structure. Further, many folks who are allergic

> to gluten are also often allergic to the other common allergens like

> casein,

> soy and corn, for instance. So there seems to be some evidence that being

> allergic to one protein may result in becoming sensitized to others that

> may

> share some similarities with it.

>

> Any thoughts?

My only thought is this: then why is S. Boulardi supposed to be so

effective against candida?

Chris

--

Want the other side of the cholesterol story?

Find out what your doctor isn't telling you:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

Hi folks,

I've been taking a concentrated oil of oregano (Source Naturals) as

part of my antifungal program, and have been taking it by the

directions, to mix it with some water.

I've been wondering what the point is, since oil of oregano (OO) is

fat-soluble and doesn't mix in the water, and I've noticed that if I

look at the surface of the water, my OO concentrates into a little

bubble on the surface of the water-- so when the OO comes into contact

with my lips, tongue, and the roof of my mouth, it isn't diluted at

all! No wonder it often burns my lips and the inside of my mouth.

So I started changing the way I take it last night, and it works MUCH better:

I pour extra-virgin olive oil (EVOO) into a shot glass, and then drop

the four drops of OO into the EVOO, and swirl it around. I down the

shot, and then pour half a shot glass again of EVOO and down that as a

chaser. Finally, I pour a little water into the shot glass, which

lifts up any residue from the bottom, and drink that, just to make

sure I'm not wasting any of the OO.

No burning!

I highly recommend trying this method if you are taking OO. It might

dramatically increase the comfort with which you use the product.

Chris

--

Want the other side of the cholesterol story?

Find out what your doctor isn't telling you:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

Ron-

>Feel free to post publicly. I'm very interested in your comments. Honey is

>one of those foods that I hated until I started eating well. Now I can't

>quite figure out how to integrate it properly into the program so any

>experience you may have will be helpful.

I know you're pursuing an energetic solution (for lack of a better term;

please feel free to offer a better one) to your chronic fatigue, but I

believe that something like EFT will at most be an adjunct to the primary

solution, which will have to involve healing and nourishing the physical

systems of your body.

More to the point, since chronic fatigue often or perhaps always seems to

involve liver problems, my take is that doing anything which unnecessarily

burdens the liver is a bad idea. Since the liver has to convert

non-glucose monosaccharides (e.g. fructose) to glucose, and since eating a

lot of fructose has many, many bad effects including the formation of fatty

bubbles in the liver (just as with alcoholism), I think consuming

meaningful amounts of honey would be a very big mistake for you -- and for

anyone with chronic fatigue or any other kind of liver impairment.

-

[Guest guest]

> More to the point, since chronic fatigue often or perhaps always

seems to

> involve liver problems, my take is that doing anything which

unnecessarily

> burdens the liver is a bad idea. Since the liver has to convert

> non-glucose monosaccharides (e.g. fructose) to glucose, and since

eating a

> lot of fructose has many, many bad effects including the formation

of fatty

> bubbles in the liver (just as with alcoholism), I think consuming

> meaningful amounts of honey would be a very big mistake for you --

and for

> anyone with chronic fatigue or any other kind of liver impairment.

,

Interesting. In Ayurveda, honey is verboten for pitta (fire)

constitutions or imbalances. Honey is heating, unlike most

sweeteners, and these people are already hot and prone to liver

inflammation and alcohol(ic) issues.

B.

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>Well yeah that is ridiculous, but I saw one that indicated

>lactobacillus went up 10% on a week of inulin and pathogenic organisms

>declined. I think they were going by stool.

Well, see, that's another surrogate endpoint problem: they're measuring

what they believe is a marker of digestive health rather than actual

indications of absorption, stool quality and general health. Even

desirable organisms (and as I've pointed out, bifidus may not be so

desirable) can be problematic on the wrong diet, in the wrong proportions, etc.

>Newer

>research has shown that intestinal cells feed sugars to the microbes

>colonizing them as in a symbiotic relationship, so maybe prebiotics

>just aren't necessary at all.

That combined with the fact that stuff like butyrate is supposed to be

useful makes me think that the entire of carb prebiotics is

misguided. Well, those facts plus the way people do so poorly on inulin

and FOS.

> > There's some overlap, but not as much as you might think. Even in flour

> > form, nut flours aren't always tolerated that well. (Obviously part of

> > that is because the SCD almond flours onthe market aren't made from soaked

> > almonds, but also it's just because they're nuts.) Nut flour tends to give

> > a clearer, more obvious correlation between consumption and subsequent

> > distress than plain overindulgence in fruits, honey and other legal sweets.

>

>So people have a much worse time with nuts, but that leaves long-term

>damage from too much carbs to go unnoticed, you're saying?

I'm saying the symptoms of nut intolerance are often more immediately

noticeable -- pain, gas and diarrhea which are clearly due to a meal

containing nuts -- as opposed to a generalized lack of healing progress

from eating too many easier-to-digest legal carbs.

>Ok, but a tablespoon of honey only provides about 5 grams of fructose.

> I doubt that causes more work for the liver than dealing with

>metabolism in general.

True, but many people eat WAY more than a tablespoon of honey, and it also

provides almost as much glicose (31%) as fructose (38%), and I'm assuming

the liver also has to convert the glicose.

>Obviously you aren't going to eat, for

>example, the perfect balance of fat and carbs to match your needs

I don't follow.

>Ok. I'd like to learn more about that.

OK, here's a study I found on the

subject. http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/128/9/1442 Here's the

abstract.

>>Fructose intake has increased steadily during the past two decades.

>>Fructose, like other reducing sugars, can react with proteins through the

>>Maillard reaction (glycation), which may account for several

>>complications of diabetes mellitus and accelerating aging. In this study,

>>we evaluated the effect of fructose intake on some age-related variables.

>>Rats were fed for 1 y a commercial nonpurified diet, and had free access

>>to water or 250 g/L solutions of fructose, glucose or sucrose. Early

>>glycation products were evaluated by blood glycated hemoglobin and

>>fructosamine concentrations. Lipid peroxidation was estimated by urine

>>thiobarbituric reactive substances. Skin collagen crosslinking was

>>evaluated by solubilization in natural salt or diluted acetic acid

>>solutions, and by the ratio between - and -collagen chains. Advanced

>>glycation end products were evaluated by collagen-linked fluorescence in

>>bones. The ratio between type-III and type-I collagens served as an aging

>>variable and was measured in denatured skin collagen. The tested sugars

>>had no effect on plasma glucose concentrations. Blood fructose,

>>cholesterol, fructosamine and glycated hemoglobin levels, and urine lipid

>>peroxidation products were significantly higher in fructose-fed rats

>>compared with the other sugar-fed and control rats. Acid-soluble collagen

>>and the type-III to type-I ratio were significantly lower, whereas

>>insoluble collagen, the to ratio and collagen-bound fluorescence at

>>335/385 nm (excitation/emission) were significantly higher in

>>fructose-fed rats than in the other groups. The data suggest that

>>long-term fructose consumption induces adverse effects on aging; further

>>studies are required to clarify the precise role of fructose in the aging

>>process.

>

>

>

>-

[Guest guest]

-

>Interesting. In Ayurveda, honey is verboten for pitta (fire)

>constitutions or imbalances. Honey is heating, unlike most

>sweeteners, and these people are already hot and prone to liver

>inflammation and alcohol(ic) issues.

Heating? Not sure I know what that means, exactly.

-

[Guest guest]

> Heating? Not sure I know what that means, exactly.

,

Well, if you ever allow yourself, take a bit of honey into your mouth

and notice for yourself the qualities.

The first thing you may notice is the taste, which is sweet.

Next, is the effect the food has on the digestion. A food with a hot

effect will enhance digestive function, while one with a cool effect

will slow it down. Honey--and ginger--are hot, or heating, as I put

it. Most other types of sweeteners have a cooling effect, save, say,

molasses.

Following that, is a more long-term and subtle effect the specific

food has on the body and its metabolism. Some tastes will tend to

lighten a body and promote weight loss, over time, and others will

have the opposite effect. Here, honey is light and drying--as is

ginger--but one needs to be quite aware of their body and digestion

to notice these distinctions, so most people refer to charts.

B.

[Guest guest]

-

>Next, is the effect the food has on the digestion. A food with a hot

>effect will enhance digestive function, while one with a cool effect

>will slow it down. Honey--and ginger--are hot, or heating, as I put

>it. Most other types of sweeteners have a cooling effect, save, say,

>molasses.

Huh. I've never heard molasses espoused as a digestive aid, and I've heard

from plenty of people undertaking the SCD who flared and relapsed from it.

>Some tastes will tend to

>lighten a body and promote weight loss, over time, and others will

>have the opposite effect. Here, honey is light and drying--as is

>ginger--but one needs to be quite aware of their body and digestion

>to notice these distinctions, so most people refer to charts.

In my experience, honey stops my weight loss cold even in very small

quantities.

-

[Guest guest]

> Huh. I've never heard molasses espoused as a digestive aid, and

I've heard

> from plenty of people undertaking the SCD who flared and relapsed

from it.

Meh. It is a spectrum. And on the sweetener spectrum, compared to

refined white sugar--which is extreme on the cooling end--molasses is

going to be *more* heating and *more* enhancing of digestion/metabolism.

Molasses is not touted as any type of digestive *aid*, and I never

meant to imply that it is. It is still a sweetener, after all, which

is, overall, cooling and nourishing--as is all food, in the big

picture--and not to be eaten in excess. Honey is--and I don't think

you disagree--widely considered exceptional in certain of its properties.

My original point, , was that even the finest quality honey, for

all its alleged medicinal and healing properties, is not considered

suitable for all people.

> In my experience, honey stops my weight loss cold even in very small

> quantities.

I'm not going to dispute your personal experience with it only to

mention that you eat what might be considered an excess of other

weight-promoting foods and the subtle effects of honey are not likely

to make a difference in that respect and may merely aggravate things

as a sweet. Honey mixed with heavy cream, for example, is not going to

enhance weight loss in anyone. OTOH if you opted to attempt to lose

weight by changing paradigms and choosing your foods according to

these particular qualities, I don't doubt you would be succesfull.

B.

[Guest guest]

-

>Meh. It is a spectrum. And on the sweetener spectrum, compared to

>refined white sugar--which is extreme on the cooling end--molasses is

>going to be *more* heating and *more* enhancing of digestion/metabolism.

Or less cooling and less disruptive of digestion and metabolism?

>It is still a sweetener, after all, which

>is, overall, cooling and nourishing--as is all food, in the big

>picture--and not to be eaten in excess.

My apologies if I'm misunderstanding this schema, but are " heating " foods

then taken as non-nourishing?

>I'm not going to dispute your personal experience with it only to

>mention that you eat what might be considered an excess of other

>weight-promoting foods and the subtle effects of honey are not likely

>to make a difference in that respect and may merely aggravate things

>as a sweet. Honey mixed with heavy cream, for example, is not going to

>enhance weight loss in anyone. OTOH if you opted to attempt to lose

>weight by changing paradigms and choosing your foods according to

>these particular qualities, I don't doubt you would be succesfull.

I'm losing fat extremely successfully at the moment, but I'm curious about

what, specifically, you mean by changing paradigms and choosing foods

according to those particular qualities. What paradigm and what foods are

you recommending?

-

[Guest guest]

-

>>My apologies if I'm misunderstanding this schema, but are " heating " foods

>>then taken as non-nourishing?

Sorry, I should've written " taken to be " or " understood to be " , not " taken as " .

-

[Guest guest]

,

> >going to be *more* heating and *more* enhancing of

digestion/metabolism.

>

> Or less cooling and less disruptive of digestion and metabolism?

Excellent, thanks for that. That is a much better way of putting it.

> My apologies if I'm misunderstanding this schema, but are " heating "

foods

> then taken as non-nourishing?

No. There are six tastes, twenty qualities and five elements, these

are all combined factors in any given food, as is how the food is

prepared and then there still may be contrary effects due to, say,

pesticide contamination.

Meat is heating and nourishing, dates are cooling and nourishing.

Both are " heavy " , which is one of the consistent nourishing factors.

Red lentils OTOH are heating and nourishing, but somewhat light.

Many obviously hot foods, like chiles, however, are high in the air

element, which is non-nourishing. For nourishment, one seeks foods

high in earth element. Anyway, " no, foods that are 'heating' are not

taken as non-nourishing. "

> I'm losing fat extremely successfully at the moment, but I'm curious

about

> what, specifically, you mean by changing paradigms and choosing foods

> according to those particular qualities. What paradigm and what

foods are

> you recommending?

I understand that you are losing fat extremely successfully and I am

thrilled for you! I am not recommending anything--neither paradigms

nor foods--only saying that adding honey to your current diet and

experiencing a resulting halt to weight loss does not mean honey does

not have those subtle attributes I mentioned. It is hardly the

determining factor in a weight-loss plan, only an enhancement. I also

didn't mean to imply your plan wasn't successfull, as I knew that it

was, only meant to suggest you could likely also find some success

following a different paradigm, which I suspect you would declare

absurd if I described it to you, and I don't have that much jam.

B.

[Guest guest]

> >>My apologies if I'm misunderstanding this schema, but are

" heating " foods

> >>then taken as non-nourishing?

>

> Sorry, I should've written " taken to be " or " understood to be " , not

" taken as " .

,

I understood, but I'm going to take an opportunity here to add on:

Hot foods enhance fire.

Digestive ability is fire, as is inflammation and acidity. If one has

an abundance of these things already, the organism may become

aggravated in certain predictable ways by consuming an *imbalance* of

heating foods.

Teesa B.

[Guest guest]

-

>No. There are six tastes, twenty qualities and five elements, these

>are all combined factors in any given food, as is how the food is

>prepared and then there still may be contrary effects due to, say,

>pesticide contamination.

That sounds like a royal pain in the neck, unless it's more useful than the

alternative. Do you find that system to superior to what modern science

knows about insulin, leptin and other hormones, and the metabolic effects

of various micronutrients and different kinds of fats, proteins and carbs?

>I understand that you are losing fat extremely successfully and I am

>thrilled for you!

Thanks! I'd be a lot more thrilled myself if meeting Ron and talking about

the issue the weekend before last hadn't led me to conclude that I have

rather further to go than I initially thought.

>only meant to suggest you could likely also find some success

>following a different paradigm, which I suspect you would declare

>absurd if I described it to you, and I don't have that much jam.

Come on, I'll send you some jam if you need more. I'm not saying I'm going

to adopt such a dietary regimen, but I'm quite curious about what it would

consist of.

-

[Guest guest]

--

> I know you're pursuing an energetic solution (for lack of a

> better term;

> please feel free to offer a better one) to your chronic

> fatigue, but I

> believe that something like EFT will at most be an adjunct to

> the primary

> solution, which will have to involve healing and nourishing

> the physical

> systems of your body.

I'm pursuing both solutions. Nutrition is making inroads as is the physical

work that my holistic doc is doing. OTOH, I suspect that my susceptibility

to the virus in the first place may well have been caused by mental and

energetic issues. Finding the route in to getting those issues removed has

been difficult. And yet I've truly been doing so much stuff over the past 4

years that I can't report which thing has created which change.

>

> More to the point, since chronic fatigue often or perhaps

> always seems to

> involve liver problems,

Hmm. Didn't know that.

>my take is that doing anything which

> unnecessarily

> burdens the liver is a bad idea. Since the liver has to convert

> non-glucose monosaccharides (e.g. fructose) to glucose, and

> since eating a

> lot of fructose has many, many bad effects including the

> formation of fatty

> bubbles in the liver (just as with alcoholism), I think consuming

> meaningful amounts of honey would be a very big mistake for

> you -- and for

> anyone with chronic fatigue or any other kind of liver impairment.

So could you define meaningful? I suspect that eating some small amount of

honey may be beneficial just as a source of micronutrient. I'm interested

in how much that might be if you have any idea.

Ron

[Guest guest]

-

>Digestive ability is fire, as is inflammation and acidity. If one has

>an abundance of these things already, the organism may become

>aggravated in certain predictable ways by consuming an *imbalance* of

>heating foods.

That sounds commonsensical, but it strikes me that it might be the exact

same mistake modern medicine makes. Reflux is almost universally

interpreted as a sign of excessive stomach acid production, leading to the

very profitable prescription of proton pump inhibitors and other

acid-suppressing and acid-neutralizing medications, but in fact, at least

according to Dr. , 90% of reflux cases are caused by _insufficient_

stomach acid production -- there's not enough acidity to prompt the lower

esophageal sphincter to fully close, and over time it can become seriously

damaged and even atrophy. This condition is actually remedied by taking

supplemental HCl and sometimes other aids like ginger juice. And yet a key

part of the conventional medical advice to people with reflux, even when

they're taking medication, is to avoid spicy foods, hot peppers, etc. --

IOW, to cut down on the " fire " , or " heating " foods, yes?

-

[Guest guest]

Ron-

>So could you define meaningful? I suspect that eating some small amount of

>honey may be beneficial just as a source of micronutrient. I'm interested

>in how much that might be if you have any idea.

I'm not sure. Trial and error might be necessary, except that the effects

likely won't be immediate and any mistakes could well have dire

consequences. What micronutrients do you think you can get from honey that

aren't available elsewhere?

-

[Guest guest]

> That sounds commonsensical, but it strikes me that it might be the

exact

> same mistake modern medicine makes. Reflux is almost universally

> interpreted as a sign of excessive stomach acid production, leading

to the

> very profitable prescription of proton pump inhibitors and other

> acid-suppressing and acid-neutralizing medications, but in fact, at

least

> according to Dr. , 90% of reflux cases are caused by

_insufficient_

> stomach acid production -- there's not enough acidity to prompt the

lower

> esophageal sphincter to fully close, and over time it can become

seriously

> damaged and even atrophy. This condition is actually remedied by

taking

> supplemental HCl and sometimes other aids like ginger juice. And

yet a key

> part of the conventional medical advice to people with reflux, even

when

> they're taking medication, is to avoid spicy foods, hot peppers,

etc. --

> IOW, to cut down on the " fire " , or " heating " foods, yes?

,

My comment re: abundant acid meant a true abundance of acid in the

system, not an aftereffect of poor digestion.

There is no mistake: Ayurvedic medicine is not so superficially

symptom-driven in its interpretaions; a complaint of acid-reflux is

only a piece of the puzzle.

A practitioner would take note of the current complaint and then make

specific observations of the patient, including, but not limited to,

tongue and pulse diagnosis.

One look at your tongue, for instance, would tell her that you had low

digestive fire, in spite of any complaint of acidity. High acidity

would present as a bright pink/red tongue with nary smeg. An inquiry

into your bowel particulars would reinforce a conjecture of

hypochloridia--but it would not be called " hypochloridia " , but " low

agni " and would be identified as the source of a multitude of signs of

which you weren't even complaining.

Your pulse--and physical appearance--would show a water-predominant

constitution, which is inherently low in fire and high in mucus,

indicating a need for hot, light and pungent foods--peppers! Peppers,

in fact, even more than ginger juice, as ginger juice is more of a

diaphoretic (sweat inducer) than a fire-builder; it's wet, after all.

Shucks.

B.

/this is very, very simplified. An adept practitioner will take your

pulse and tell you dirty things about yourself you thought nobody ever

knew, as well as highly specific internal stuff, like the existence of

cysts/tumors--and their locations--that need be confirmed with

specialized diagnostic tests--Western tests.

//also, you have a high level of fire element--betrayed by your

intellectual prowess, discrimination and corrective lenses--of which

I'm not sure how much is " genetic " and how much is merely imbalance.

So peppers might be problematic for you if they in turn caused

irritation. I was just illustrating why reflux would not be mistaken

for actual hyperacidity, not giving you a recommendation.

///reflux also indicates a malfunction of the upward-moving

flow/current/gases that would need to be addressed as well.

[Guest guest]

-

>My comment re: abundant acid meant a true abundance of acid in the

>system, not an aftereffect of poor digestion.

How commonly is this diagnosed?

>but it would not be called " hypochloridia " , but " low

>agni " and would be identified as the source of a multitude of signs of

>which you weren't even complaining.

See, this is one problem I have with ayurveda and other traditional

disciplines -- they often have plenty of value, but at least from what I've

seen, they tend to completely ignore scientific progress. In my book, any

truly worthwhile system will always be in flux, always changing and

improving, and always seeking the best possible information. There may be

plenty of value in ayurveda's metaphoric system of tastes and elements and

whatnot, but why not use its origins as a jumping-off point for scientific

investigation?

>Peppers,

>in fact, even more than ginger juice, as ginger juice is more of a

>diaphoretic (sweat inducer) than a fire-builder; it's wet, after all.

Well, ginger juice definitely helps me tolerate pepsin, and I don't think

hot peppers have ever done that, but I do like spicy foods and eat them

fairly regularly. (I almost never have a steak or burger without some

habanero in some form or other, for example.)

>/this is very, very simplified. An adept practitioner will take your

>pulse and tell you dirty things about yourself you thought nobody ever

>knew, as well as highly specific internal stuff, like the existence of

>cysts/tumors--and their locations--that need be confirmed with

>specialized diagnostic tests--Western tests.

Is there any sort of confirmation of this diagnostic prowess? Seems to me

it wouldn't be hard, if ayurveda is all you say it is.

One reason I'm rather skeptical of it, though, is its roots in vegetarianism.

>//also, you have a high level of fire element--betrayed by your

>intellectual prowess, discrimination and corrective lenses--of which

>I'm not sure how much is " genetic " and how much is merely imbalance.

How can I have a high fire element and a low fire element at the same

time? And why would intellectual prowess and discrimination (assuming you

mean that in the favorable sense) be indicative of an imbalance?

-

[Guest guest]

,

> That sounds like a royal pain in the neck, unless it's more useful

than the

> alternative.

It does sound like a pain in the neck, but understand that these

principles (three prime attributes, five elements and 20

qualities--and there are still others) permeate *everything* and, once

recognized, the patterns emerge all around. For me, instead of a pain

in the neck, the world became coherent.

Do you find that system to superior to what modern science

> knows about insulin, leptin and other hormones, and the metabolic

effects

> of various micronutrients and different kinds of fats, proteins and

carbs?

I am so-far-from-sophisticated in my knowledge of Ayurveda and its

foundational philosophies (and even less sophisticated in my knowledge

of modern science) but I will say that, while perhaps not superior,

the above topics have certainly already been--exhaustively--covered in

Ayurvedic texts and the wisdom within them is only confirmed by the

modern nutrition science I am introduced to on this list and

elsewhere. Therein lies my fascination with Ayurveda.

A crude example: in Ayurveda, there is a set of the population, able

to be identified at birth (if not earlier) that is inherently

anabolic. These people are prone to weight gain and

lethargy/congestion and all their attendant complications. (Type 2

diabetes, water-retention, cysts/tumors, myriad others) They are

advised to eat low carb, and, in fact, even in a vegetarian-biased

discipline, it is acknowledged that these people do better with a

dietary of meat and vegetables and no sugar/starches/sweets. It is

also entirely expected for them to have digestion/health issues from

eating wheat (because of the stickiness of the gluten) and cow dairy

products; they are recommended to eat neither. Ideally, they should

eat one meal a day--at the most two--and the meal(s) should take place

between 10 AM and 6 PM (well, technically four hours after sunrise and

no later than sunset)and meals should be 5 1/2 to 6 hours apart and

certainly spaced no closer than five hours. They are further advised,

frankly, to just not eat too much, because their bodies can make a lot

out of a little nourishment. (This all sounds so negative, but there

are plenty of upsides to this constitutional type)

I have not read the leptin books but this seems very reminiscent of

the rules I recall from glimpsing the threads.

The importance, care and feeding of the pineal gland also goes way

back in the texts.

> Come on, I'll send you some jam if you need more. I'm not saying

I'm going

> to adopt such a dietary regimen, but I'm quite curious about what it

would

> consist of.

Another post, please, I am not up to a cyber-flaying by the

list-caesar at this time, and request your benevolent mercies.

B.

[Guest guest]

, thanks for this. I'm one of those constitutional

types. By coincidence, I'm doing well eating Leptin style,

and my fitness buds/coaches, have recommended I look at

the ayurvedic aspects of nutrition.

And I instantly thought, oh yuk, spare me. My prejudice (from 3

unpleasant attempts at yoga classes) were that animal

protein eaters were looked down on, that strong muscular

bodies were looked down on, that only skinny stillness was

valued, and one had to work towards eating totally yukky

lentils/grains/veggies. So I'm hearted to hear that there

is a part of the yogic world that is not like that,

that I've obviously not found yet face-to-face.

Connie

> --- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

> ,

>

> > That sounds like a royal pain in the neck, unless it's more useful

> than the

> > alternative.

>

> It does sound like a pain in the neck, but understand that these

> principles (three prime attributes, five elements and 20

> qualities--and there are still others) permeate *everything* and,

once

> recognized, the patterns emerge all around. For me, instead of a

pain

> in the neck, the world became coherent.

[Guest guest]

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>How commonly is which diagnosed--excess acid or low digestive fire?

>Both extremely frequently, in a system that sees the roots of

>disease--and well-being--in digestion/assimilation.

I was asking how often excess stomach acid production is diagnosed, because

my understanding is that it's actually a fairly rare condition and possibly

extremely rare.

>I don't follow you--how is Ayurveda tending to completely ignore

>scientific progress? The way I see it, Ayurveda is vast enough to

>encompass any newfangled scientific progress (OTOH I don't know much.)

> Ayurveda is considered an entity unto itself btw--an eternal, living

>being and flux-inherent.

It depends what you mean by " encompass " . I could imagine someone saying

that and meaning that anything science comes up with will already be there

in ayurveda.

>Didn't some pharmaceutical company just do that by attempting to

>co-opt the use of turmeric? And plastic surgery was first described

>in Ayurvedic surgical texts. These are crude examples, I realize;

>there are better.

I'm not arguing that there's no truth to ayurveda. I'm arguing that as

science progresses, metaphoric systems should seek to literalize themselves.

>The above story happened to me. Additionally, I have observed master

>doctors diagnosing individual patients in private practice as well as

>in public before lines of people asking for assistance; it's a marvel.

> I've also seen yoga masters--not doctors but extremely knowledgeable

>in Ayurveda and Siddha medicine--diagnose people.

But how do you know that these diagnoses are accurate and will lead to

productive changes?

>Come in close; listen to me: Ayurveda is not rooted in vegetarianism.

>

>As the US health system is saddled with the cholesterol/heart disease

>dogma, so is Ayurveda burdened with the vegetarian dogmas of the Vedic

>religions. Here is something from_The Ayurvedic Cookbook_ by Amadea

>Morningstar:

OK, but if that analogy holds, then most or at least much present-day

ayurvedic dogma is garbage, just as most present-day western dietary dogma

is garbage.

>So, given that, if you went on a habanero

>binge to heat up your wet guts, you could risk irritating the fire

>element, and consequently, your girlfriend.

<g>

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