Re: sick building symposium conference convention in Los s

[Guest guest]

I think it is high time someone or collectively put together a brochure that

explains it all. I just found an article citing vaccines as the cause of sick

building syndrome.

??????

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: photoguys2003 <photoguys2003@...>

T

What are your opinions?

Elias

[Guest guest]

Don't forget that I'm writing a book...I've begun work on the research portion,

reading and taking notes to fill in what I don't know and seek clarification

from Dr. T, Carl, and . Again, anyone with ideas or research or feedback

can contact me. I'm going to be producing articles out of this, too...Thanks!

From: dragonflymcs <dragonflymcs@...>

Subject: Re: [] sick building symposium conference convention in

Los s

Date: Friday, February 4, 2011, 2:24 AM

I think it is high time someone or collectively put together a brochure that

explains it all. I just found an article citing vaccines as the cause of sick

building syndrome. ??????

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: photoguys2003 <photoguys2003@...>

What are your opinions?

Elias

[Guest guest]

Researchers Suggest Sick Building Syndrome May Be Caused by Vaccinations

A new term recently entered the medical arena, ASIA, or autoimmune inflammatory

syndrome induced by adjuvants, sometimes called Shoenfeld's syndrome.

Adjuvants are additives included in vaccines to cause the immune system to

respond more strongly. They may include things like aluminum, thimerosal

(mercury), and squalene. These adjuvants have been associated with defined and

non-defined immune mediated diseases in both animal and human models. In extreme

cases, a potentially deadly cytokine storm may be possible.

" In recent years four conditions: siliconosis, the Gulf war syndrome (GWS), the

macrophagic myofasciitis syndrome (MMF) and post-vaccination phenomena were

linked with previous exposure to an adjuvant, " says head researcher Israeli.

" Furthermore, these four diseases share a similar complex of signs and symptoms

which further support a common denominator. "

These diseases were classified under Shoenfeld's syndrome by researchers

Shoenfeld and Agmon-Levin.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/215254

Just Google how many different explanations there are for SBS

________________________________

From: Advocate Now <advocate_now@...>

Sent: Thu, February 3, 2011 10:55:22 PM

Subject: Re: [] sick building symposium conference convention in

Los s

Don't forget that I'm writing a book...I've begun work on the research portion,

reading and taking notes to fill in what I don't know and seek clarification

from Dr. T, Carl, and . Again, anyone with ideas or research or feedback

can contact me. I'm going to be producing articles out of this, too...Thanks!

[Guest guest]

It would be a good idea.   I finally got Dr. Shoemaker's book. He wrote what may

be an  a cause more than just water.  Quoting from his book.

DuPont added benomyl many contaminated w atrazine herbacide -in Lucite paint

since 1970. It was supposed to prevent growth of Aureobasidum pullulans on paint

fills to save on maintenance costs. They found it's a powerful fungal mutagenic

agent.

He lists fusarium, trichoderma, aspergillus nidulans, aspergillus parasiticus,

penicillium citrinum of the most likely organisms to be associated w neurologic

effects penicillium chrysogenum, acremonium chrysogenum, the aflatoxin- forming

aspergillus flavus, penicillium italicium, p. digitatum.

Each one of these organisms has been shown to be transformed to the mutant beta

tubulin gene.

He says someone needs to look for the mutant beta tubulin-1 gene. Dr, Gow,

neurobiologist submitted a patent application for determining if a person has

CFS based on biochemical lesions. Of course states " it's aquired , involving

changes in certain genes associated with infection, immunity, cell membranes and

cell cycle. "   Description of cell cycle might involve the micro-tubular

disruptor benomyl.

The mutant beta tubulin gene isn't just found in indoor fungi.  Their offspring

would populate indoor areas where benomyl was never used and benomyl itself is

long gone. So is DuPont's legal responsibility.

He wrote about a man in Desperation Medicine pursuing DuPont via litigation

after benomyl was used on plants in nursery's in Leesburg,  Florida.  The man's

daughter was the 1st Dr. Shoe knew of w a dx. of pediatric fribromyalgia. He

goes on to mention studies showing neural tube defects in those exposed.  It was

used in other areas on crops.

There were lawsuits.

I assume if we buy non voc paint we aren't buying any with latent benomyl.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

There was some argument sometime ago about whether CFS is caused by toxins,

infections, or the like, with some stating a belief that it is caused by toxins

alone. I don't remember who, so I'm not trying to " get all up in someone's nose "

(as someone hilariously said to fake-), but this is worth repeating:

" He says someone needs to look for the mutant beta tubulin-1 gene. Dr,

Gow, neurobiologist submitted a patent application for determining

if a person has CFS based on biochemical lesions. Of course states " it's

aquired , involving changes in certain genes associated with INFECTION,

IMMUNITY, CELL MEMBRANES, AND CELL CYCLE. " Description of cell cycle might

involve the micro-tubular

disruptor benomyl.

Infections and toxins--yes, all. We just don't know for sure. So. Just wanted to

put that out there (because I do believe and my doctor believes that my CFS

occurred after an illness.

[Guest guest]

Ann,

I have members concerned about personal information you may be

gathering/harvesting off this board for YOUR BOOK without permission. Would you

care to explain? This is also in the Sickbuildings Terms and Conditions. I have

worked very hard for the past 8 yrs, endless hours of work, to make this board

what it is today.

I would like to speak to you about this further.

2. NO spamming and/or harvesting of members or there personnel posts. For web

sites or blogs.

It is against Terms of Service to harvest email

addresses.

http://answers./question/;_ylt=Av8Rfzgo1VDDyaZ41C6LG.8jzKIX?qid=1006030\

210945

KC

owner

>

> Don't forget that I'm writing a book...I've begun work on the research

portion, reading and taking notes to fill in what I don't know and seek

clarification from Dr. T, Carl, and . Again, anyone with ideas or research

or feedback can contact me. I'm going to be producing articles out of this,

too...Thanks!

>

>

[Guest guest]

it always bothers me when someone says they are writing a book.

I fell like theres been to many in the past that just wasn't up to parr. I

kindof fell that if a book is going to be writen it needs to be done a certain

way cause it could hinder instead of help. I dont want anything I've posted in

anyones book unless I aprove it. nothing!

> >

> > Don't forget that I'm writing a book...I've begun work on the research

portion, reading and taking notes to fill in what I don't know and seek

clarification from Dr. T, Carl, and . Again, anyone with ideas or research

or feedback can contact me. I'm going to be producing articles out of this,

too...Thanks!

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, KC. I'd hate to have to end my posts with a copyright sig. I'm

just assuming that everyone knows the legalities of reprinting

personal expressions here - especially for profit. That also goes for

the insurer lurkers and investigators who I'd sue in a heartbeat if

they used a victim's text for their legal briefs.

Barth

www.presenting.net/sbs/sbs.html

SUBMIT YOUR DOCTOR: www.presenting.net/sbs/molddoctors.html

---

K> Ann,

K> I have members concerned about personal information you may be

gathering/harvesting off this board for YOUR BOOK without permission. Would you

care to explain? This is also in the Sickbuildings

K> Terms and Conditions. I have worked very hard for the past 8 yrs, endless

hours of work, to make this board what it is today.

K> I would like to speak to you about this further.

K> 2. NO spamming and/or harvesting of members or there personnel posts. For

web sites or blogs.

K> It is against Terms of Service to harvest email

K> addresses.

K>

http://answers./question/;_ylt=Av8Rfzgo1VDDyaZ41C6LG.8jzKIX?qid=1006030\

210945

K> KC

K> owner

K>

>>

>> Don't forget that I'm writing a book...I've begun work on the research

portion, reading and taking notes to fill in what I don't know and seek

clarification from Dr. T, Carl, and . Again,

>> anyone with ideas or research or feedback can contact me. I'm going to be

producing articles out of this, too...Thanks!

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Sometimes it's helpful to step back and ask oneself how important one really is

in the scope of anything. Paranoia is a problem of proportion. If we think we

are more important than we are, we start to think people are paying more

attention to us than is actually true.

It's hard to understand unless you're a writer who does publish articles and

books, but the good ones certainly don't need help WITH WRITING.

So that means that I partipate as a member. I don't look for nuggets of wisdom

in other people's posts because I know that I have no trouble coming up with

them. Okay?

On Feb 4, 2011, at 10:02 PM, Patilla DaHun <glypella@...> wrote:

Thanks, KC. I'd hate to have to end my posts with a copyright sig. I'm

just assuming that everyone knows the legalities of reprinting

personal expressions here - especially for profit. That also goes for

the insurer lurkers and investigators who I'd sue in a heartbeat if

they used a victim's text for their legal briefs.

Barth

www.presenting.net/sbs/sbs.html

SUBMIT YOUR DOCTOR: www.presenting.net/sbs/molddoctors.html

---

K> Ann,

K> I have members concerned about personal information you may be

gathering/harvesting off this board for YOUR BOOK without permission. Would you

care to explain? This is also in the Sickbuildings

K> Terms and Conditions. I have worked very hard for the past 8 yrs, endless

hours of work, to make this board what it is today.

K> I would like to speak to you about this further.

K> 2. NO spamming and/or harvesting of members or there personnel posts. For web

sites or blogs.

K> It is against Terms of Service to harvest email

K> addresses.

K>

http://answers./question/;_ylt=Av8Rfzgo1VDDyaZ41C6LG.8jzKIX?qid=1006030\

210945

K> KC

K> owner

K>

>>

>> Don't forget that I'm writing a book...I've begun work on the research

portion, reading and taking notes to fill in what I don't know and seek

clarification from Dr. T, Carl, and . Again,

>> anyone with ideas or research or feedback can contact me. I'm going to be

producing articles out of this, too...Thanks!

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

So you will be a case study of one to see if the treatment works. What type of

infection does she say you have? Viral? Bacterial? Fungal? there are more

health groups devoted to CFS than you can shake a stick at, all trying different

therapies. The Wittmore Clinic has been studying it since its inception

in the 80's. One yeas study is a drop in the bucket comparred to Dr Cheney. As

far as I know(which is limited) a couple of things have helped, stem cell

therapy, and mold avoidance are 2 of them.

>

> My doctor's assessment is that my CFS is caused by infection. That is her

learned assessment, based on my history, her study, and her expertise. It is a

fool's errand for any layperson to tell someone that their doctor is wrong. Not

that I have to defend her against anyone, period, but she received a prestigious

year-long, Bush fellowship to study CFS in more depth, after having already

studied over the years with the avowed experts and after focusing her practice

on CFS and fibromyalgia. I will repeat that the neurobiologist whom I requoted

stated that the etiology of CFS is infection. I am not foolish enough to state

with absolute certainty what anything is caused by. I am not a medical

professional. But my doctor is. Who do I believe? Her. Am I having this

conversation again? No.

>

>

> C

[Guest guest]

That was rude, you have no idea how much many have contributed.

even the experts learn from the patients, just like we learn from them. There

are many who have given alot of time,work,andsupport and knowledge to this group

for years.

>

[Guest guest]

It's not paranoia. you have to remember that many here have been raked over the

coals on this issue and your assurance that your not baseing your book around

this group really isn't reasureing at all.

people lie all the time. and it's not like we haven't had to deal with that many

times before.

>

> Sometimes it's helpful to step back and ask oneself how important one really

is in the scope of anything. Paranoia is a problem of proportion.

[Guest guest]

Group,

AN posted " I've begun work on the research portion, reading and

taking notes to fill in what I don't know and seek clarification from

Dr. T, Carl, and . "

For the record and to be perfectly clear, because she specifically

mentioned me, I have no agreement with AN beyond talking with

her when she's ready for a potential review of technical

information or on my experience with publishing and marketing a

book. We have exchanged e-mails but the last I heard she wasn't

quite ready for my input.

I will not use, and never have used, any personal information

from Sickbuildings - or from my clients, for that matter - without

express written permission. And I won't support anyone who

does.

I treat all my clients and contacts with strict confidentiality. If

anyone has concerns with me and my participation on

Sickbuildings please contact me off-group.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

Ann,

I have members concerned about personal information you may be

gathering/harvesting off this board for YOUR BOOK without permission. Would you

care to explain? This is also in the Sickbuildings Terms and Conditions. I have

worked very hard for the past 8 yrs, endless hours of work, to make this board

what it is today.

I would like to speak to you about this further.

2. NO spamming and/or harvesting of members or there personnel posts. For web

sites or blogs.

It is against Terms of Service to harvest email

addresses.

http://answers./question/;_ylt=Av8Rfzgo1VDDyaZ41C6LG.8jzKIX?qid=1006030\

210945

KC

owner

>

> Don't forget that I'm writing a book...I've begun work on the research

portion, reading and taking notes to fill in what I don't know and seek

clarification from Dr. T, Carl, and . Again, anyone with ideas or research

or feedback can contact me. I'm going to be producing articles out of this,

too...Thanks!

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Carl, Exactly, almost. Since I've published and marketed books, that's not

really what I asked you for. A technical review and clarification of technical

aspects that still remain a mystery are what I asked for.

Since a writer's research is based on credible sources, which means scientific

research, expert interviews, etc., that's of course what I mean when I said,

" I've begun work on the research portion, reading and taking notes to fill in

what I don't know. "

If Carl isn't comfortable answering questions, that's okay, too, as I've asked

Armour to talk with me on the phone, and he agreed.

Of course, I may not even need to talk to you, Carl. I'm still reading about the

technical concepts. As I did tell you, though, the technical aspect is a small

part of it.

As for this, " And I won't support anyone who does " --that's not really

necessary, in my case. What a spot of bother over what people are AFRAID of. As

I have said five million times, I volunteered a statement last month, when I

first posted to the group about my book, and first asked you, Carl, about

answering questions and reviewing technical information. I said: " This list has

been a refuge; I have no intention of violating it. "

Though what this is actually feeling like is less a refuge and more paintball,

with me an arbitrary target.

This ALL should be handled off-list.

From: Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...>

[Guest guest]

Carl, I think a non-issue has become an issue.

Last month, I posted about my project and I also specifically said that I would

not violate anyone's privacy. I said, " This list has been a refuge;  have no

intention of violating it. "

You are right that you agreed to review the technical aspect of the book. And we

were going to talk on the phone. (I don't need advice about writing and

marketing, though, since I've done both--but I always love to talk to other

writers about their experiences.)

I am feeling quite upset about how my mere mention about this book, one month

after I'd already written about this, has been met with fear and assumptions.

This ALL should have been handled off-list. Then a statement could have been

made. Instead, I find myself responding to multiple posts with multiple

implications that I have nefarious intentions.

I am a published writer who knows how to do my job. And it's not by trolling for

layperson's opinions, especially without asking for their permission or

interviewing them AFTER receiving permission. I have never contacted members

off-list, aside from experts, without being contacted first.

I would ask that the group refrain from implication of slander.

If you have any problems with what I've asked of you or said here, Carl, please

tell me off-list. I don't think there's anything more for the whole group to

discuss.

AN

[Guest guest]

Hi Advocate Now-

You may already know all the buzz with the research on XMRV Virus. Even our

CFS/CFIDS Cheney is in the picture:

http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=15876

Kathy

----------------------------------

> My doctor's assessment is that my CFS is caused by infection.Who do I believe?

Her. Am I having this conversation again? No.