Guest guest Posted December 7, 2010 Report Share Posted December 7, 2010 I am not a talking a mold court case.. I am asking about fusarium specifically. I am talking about spores specifically and muycotoxins specifically. If other factors control the expression of such, then I am asking about those as well. As far as zero tolerance, , I would think either - or is purist as well.. for some alittle may be a lot, right or wrong? I am asking about outdoor fusarium and the effect of continual impact WHEN one has a biotoxin pathway that is already PRIMED.. as per Shoemaker. If the system STAYS inflammed then we have a problem. Robin > > > > Robin, > > > > I disagree with you use of " purist concepts. " When we include all > > the other possibilities we are not purists. When anyone arbitrarily > > limits the possibilities to just mold or just mycotoxins then that is a > > purist approach. > > > > Artificial limitation of cause is the easiest for courts and skeptics > > to shoot down. Because their is no supporting evidence for the > > artificial determination of a singular cause. > > > > It is the main reason most mold court cases are lost. It is one of > > the main reasons why doctors treat us like we're crazy. We insist > > on mold and mycotoxins when " they " know it could easily be any > > of several possibilities. > > > > What arguments do we offer them? The counter accusation that > > they don't know or don't care. > > > > Now, both may be true. It may be true that it is only mold or > > mycotoxins. It may also be true the physicians don't know or don't > > care. > > > > But we don't help ourselves by trying to win argu ignoring the > > facts that have been established or which the naysments using > > incorrect information, crappy testing, andayers believe. > > > > We don't stop our own suffering by chasing the wrong ghost. We > > don't stop the suffering by trying to stop one specific cause (or > > spore) when the cause is by the many. We must keep in mind > > that it is not just exposure. It is also the body. And, most > > importantly, the interaction between the body and its > > environment. > > > > I'm sorry, but that's complicated. More complicated than anybody > > has figured out so far. But it's the best we have right now. > > > > If we don't accept the uncertainty then we will continue to push for > > the precise which doesn't exist. And that may cause more harm > > than if we ignored the problem to begin with. It is what Dr Henry > > Vyner has labeled as the need to be vigilent rather than being in > > denial and igoring it all, or being hypervigilent by assuming the > > cause is anything and everything along with the compulsive > > actions to push their own agenda. This can sometimes cause > > more harm than denial because we lose focus and become blind > > to what is actually affecting us. Sometimes missing what is > > important. > > > > I don't mean to be harsh, Robin. We know each other very well. > > But you are pushing to control what can't be controlled. Don't give > > up. But please accept what we do know as facts so you have a > > better chance of improving your situation. > > > > Carl Grimes > > Healthy Habitats LLC > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2010 Report Share Posted December 7, 2010 Robin, I will be direct and hopefully neither purist nor patronizing by directly addressing only what you wrote. Fusarium specifically has specifics which are known. But which specifics are present at any given time varies with the environment, the weather, the food source, and even which of the many species of Fusarium are present and active so they can grow. Additional information is needed to address your questions and concerns. Analytical methods to determine which of those specifics are actually present are expensive and prone to error. They are not based only on spores. They cannot be based only on spores. So your insistence on only spores is misplaced. Neither can they be based solely on " mycotoxins " because there are many specific mycotoxins each with different characteristics. Mycotoxin sampling and detection is even less sensitive and less accurate than for mold spores. Your insistence on only " mycotoxins " is misplaced. There are also other toxins associated with WDB and forrested areas in humid climates which are not created by mold. Why only mold generated toxins and not the others? Again, your specific question has no specific answer. Or even a simple answer. Going back over previous posts indicate your recent focus on Fusarium is partly based on some studies showing extreme levels of very damaging mycotoxins. But those studies were for food-borne Fusarium, not airborne Fusarium, or WDB Fusarium. They can be very different species and the actual components and amounts in a single situation can vary considerably. Again, there is no specific answer to your question. Your question about the effect of continual impact when one has a biotoxin pathway that is already primed is a medical question. Other than Dr Thrasher who can respond as a toxicologist none of us have the medical qualifications necessary to answer that question. Dr Shoemaker would be the best to ask since it is his hypothesis and treatment protocol. Yes, if the system stays inflamed we have a problem. But many other substances beyond Fusarium and other molds can inflame and continue the inflamation. Further diagnosis and information is required before your questions can be answered. We are back to the issue of how do we live our life as best we can when we don't have, and cannot get, the answers we so desparately need? Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC ----- I am not a talking a mold court case.. I am asking about fusarium specifically. I am talking about spores specifically and muycotoxins specifically. If other factors control the expression of such, then I am asking about those as well. As far as zero tolerance, , I would think either - or is purist as well.. for some alittle may be a lot, right or wrong? I am asking about outdoor fusarium and the effect of continual impact WHEN one has a biotoxin pathway that is already PRIMED.. as per Shoemaker. If the system STAYS inflammed then we have a problem. Robin > > > > Robin, > > > > I disagree with you use of " purist concepts. " When we include all > > the other possibilities we are not purists. When anyone arbitrarily > > limits the possibilities to just mold or just mycotoxins then that is a > > purist approach. > > > > Artificial limitation of cause is the easiest for courts and skeptics > > to shoot down. Because their is no supporting evidence for the > > artificial determination of a singular cause. > > > > It is the main reason most mold court cases are lost. It is one of > > the main reasons why doctors treat us like we're crazy. We insist > > on mold and mycotoxins when " they " know it could easily be any > > of several possibilities. > > > > What arguments do we offer them? The counter accusation that > > they don't know or don't care. > > > > Now, both may be true. It may be true that it is only mold or > > mycotoxins. It may also be true the physicians don't know or don't > > care. > > > > But we don't help ourselves by trying to win argu ignoring the > > facts that have been established or which the naysments using > > incorrect information, crappy testing, andayers believe. > > > > We don't stop our own suffering by chasing the wrong ghost. We > > don't stop the suffering by trying to stop one specific cause (or > > spore) when the cause is by the many. We must keep in mind > > that it is not just exposure. It is also the body. And, most > > importantly, the interaction between the body and its > > environment. > > > > I'm sorry, but that's complicated. More complicated than anybody > > has figured out so far. But it's the best we have right now. > > > > If we don't accept the uncertainty then we will continue to push for > > the precise which doesn't exist. And that may cause more harm > > than if we ignored the problem to begin with. It is what Dr Henry > > Vyner has labeled as the need to be vigilent rather than being in > > denial and igoring it all, or being hypervigilent by assuming the > > cause is anything and everything along with the compulsive > > actions to push their own agenda. This can sometimes cause > > more harm than denial because we lose focus and become blind > > to what is actually affecting us. Sometimes missing what is > > important. > > > > I don't mean to be harsh, Robin. We know each other very well. > > But you are pushing to control what can't be controlled. Don't give > > up. But please accept what we do know as facts so you have a > > better chance of improving your situation. > > > > Carl Grimes > > Healthy Habitats LLC > ---------- The following section of this message contains a file attachment prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format. If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any other MIME-compliant system, you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer. If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance. ---- File information ----------- File: DEFAULT.BMP Date: 15 Jun 2009, 23:10 Size: 358 bytes. Type: Unknown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2010 Report Share Posted December 7, 2010 I agree with this statement: " It is what Dr Henry Vyner has labeled as the need to be vigilent rather than being in denial and igoring it all, or being hypervigilent by assuming the cause is anything and everything along with the compulsive actions to push their own agenda. This can sometimes cause more harm than denial because we lose focus and become blind to what is actually affecting us. " Very well put. But does a person with diabetes become blind because they ascribe fluctuations in how they feel, physically and mentally, to the disease? Well, the counter argument goes, we don't really know whether Robin has been sick by mold and other contaminants related to WDBs, not with the certainty that a person with diabetes has. But she has been guided to that conclusion by what experts have said. And she is a smart person with an inquiring, investigative mind. A person with lung cancer should not smoke; a person with a system inflamed by mold should not expose themselves to it. Yes, she can never get away from it completely, just as smoke is still a fact of life, though less and less so. In other words, she is not artificially limiting her experiences. It's not as though she pulled mold out of thin air as a potential cause and then focused on it. The key word here is " artificial. " I think Robin's other posts demonstrate that she understands that her problems are the result of an interplay between her body and her environment. Lately, she has been focusing on the environment. But she is inquiring, not stating with absolute conviction. In other words, she's learning. Good for her! I feel for Robin. I totally understand. I am a skeptic at heart, but I also know my body better than any other person on this earth. I live in a building that has clear mold contamination and regular dampness. I did not experience the symptoms I am having before I moved into this building. I am found to be allergic to the species contained generally in WDBs and specifically in mine. I have not changed any other facet of my life. All my products are the same; my pets are the same. My doctor has been my doctor for a decade. She comes to the same conclusion: mold and its associated problems are what is causing my decline. As I read more, I understand that bacteria from the water damage may also be causing issues. I am not artificially limiting potential causative factors. I keep an open mind, though it is closing as the months wear on. Perhaps I misinterpreted your intent or argument. If so, I apologize. I know you mean well--and you are one of " us. " You care, a lot. I certainly agree with much of what you say, and I always appreciate the way you phrase your arguments. I always find something quotable in them. I hope this response does not indicate otherwise. From: Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...> Subject: Re: [] Re: Fusarium Date: Tuesday, December 7, 2010, 8:42 PM I disagree with you use of " purist concepts. " When we include all the other possibilities we are not purists. When anyone arbitrarily limits the possibilities to just mold or just mycotoxins then that is a purist approach. -snip- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2010 Report Share Posted December 7, 2010 Nice. Excellent explanations! Great logic. I do learn a lot, here. Please email me about my book if you have the time... From: Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...> Subject: Re: [] Re: Fusarium Date: Tuesday, December 7, 2010, 8:19 PM Good points, . Even if a remediator can produce zero detectable spores (and I've done it on rare occasions of extreme need in a very tiny area) as soon as the containment is removed the normal air moves in and normal air always has mold spores of more than is commonly detected with current testing methods. snip- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2010 Report Share Posted December 8, 2010 Robin, I do try to consider, as you say, " who you are talking to and what they are asking before lecturing. " So I won't lecture you. I will be very direct. In spite of your insistence that you already know what we lecture you about, your questions indicate that you either don't know or are still not clear about the complex relationships of the multitude of factors. If you knew you would not be asking the questions you do, and won't keep repeating them in slightly different ways. It's almost as if you believe the truth is being withheld from you. And if you can just keep pushing and pushing eventually Dr Thrasher or I or someone else will let it slip out. We are telling the truth and the whole truth as it is known by the best international experts as published in their studies, reports, presentations and sometimes by direct contact with them. We even include the speculation and future hypotheses they are researching. Your questions are demanding specific answers which do not exist. The answers to your questions are based on environmental relationships which do not exist or are as yet not known. When you say, " When I ask about mycos, thats what i want to talk about. If I ask about lyme thats what I want to talk about. If I ask about the wet builidng damage stew, thats what i want to talk about. " What we are trying to tell you is based on your questions about what is causing your problems we cannot answer them individually in isolation from the others. They are interactive. For example, " I was asking about fusarium and if any potential impact on health when in outdoor and and indoor air from most likely outdoor source. " Yes, there is a potential. There is also a potential for it not to be. What is it actually in your situation? I don't know. For me or Dr Thrasher or anyone else to answer your question specific to you we must know all those details you say we are lecturing you on. And they can not be discerned by any kind of sampling without all those details in our lectures. The spore counts are almost never relevant and if they are, they are only because the relationships of all the details are known. That is why we keep talking about them. They must be known in order to answer your questions. I now hope you don't think I'm rude or insensitive. Or that I just lecturing you in another way. But there are some things that are facts and they won't change by opinions. Those facts are complex and dynamically inter-related. Without the details of those facts and their relationships - which we don't know and you don't know - your questions cannot be answered. Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC ----- Carl, I tried to repsond and hit a key that sent my post of to moderator land potentially never to be seen again or off into the internet ethers. I have had 3-4 posts not sent on by moderators.. and I dont get that at all.. I can se with the first one since I used quite a few caps and quite frankly told you all off but even then, not as offensive in my book as the cranky and or partonizing posts coming from you all who are the list experts. That said.. if you want to address new folks or continue to remind the community that it is more than mold spores I suggest you create a file post that will automatically go out either weekly, bi monthly or monthly. Not saying dont bring up the stew in any other context, but please consider who you are talking to and what they are asking before lecturing. Now I will attempt to post yet again my last somewhat frustrated post that was not allowed the last time to post to the list... bear in mind this was before your apology and I am too tired adn in too much pain to re address my points so here it is as it was: This may be the last time I post to this list. Ive had three posts not go through and Im tired of it. I am also tired of the " experts " on this list ignoring the question asked (dishonoring it, disrespecting the poster) and using most any of not all questions about mycotoxins to lecture about the wet building damage stew. You should feel free to take any personal opportunity to post about the stew but not in a disrespectful way. We get snappy and we get " kind " disrespect. I get it.. its not all or nothing ever one thing or another. But sometimes it is. I have lyme. But is it active and causing my problems, I dont know. Im not going to say I have lyme therefore all my symptoms are lyme nor am I going to ignore the fact I do. At some point we have a terrain issue not only before illness sets in but also as a result of illness setting in. Same with mycotoxins. Its not all or nothing, black or white or existing in a vacuum. When I ask about mycos, thats what i want to talk about. If I ask about lyme thats what I want to talk about. If I ask about the wet builidng damage stew, thats what i want to talk about. If you dont, fine. I am not an insurance company, court, and if I were asking about a court case, I would say so. I was asking about fusarium and if any potential impact on health when in outdoor and and indoor air from most likely outdoor source. ( what i did get from out exchange it this: it depend on the type of fusarium, depends on the growth source (and yes I know the stew if it exists in this context), a count of 100 or less of even a potentially toxic mold like fusarium is low, some people though may be more reactive than others and this might depend on the condition of the biotoxin pathway-cytokine reactivity.. VIP< MSH, etc., the same mold can create a diff toxin intensity, quaility depending on the substrate.) Robin > > Robin, > > I don't mean to be patronizing and sincerely apologize. I mean to > be responding to what you write in a manner that is not > inflammatory or rude. I mean to clarify the issues you bring up. > They are important. And sometimes they aren't directed at only > you but to others, especially newer members. > > Would it help if I acknowledge what you know and then identify > when I'm addressing the group? > > Again, I apologize for offending you. > > Carl Grimes > Healthy Habitats LLC > > ------ > ---------- The following section of this message contains a file attachment prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format. If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any other MIME-compliant system, you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer. If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance. ---- File information ----------- File: DEFAULT.BMP Date: 15 Jun 2009, 23:10 Size: 358 bytes. Type: Unknown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 And, my own belief, given that almost all of us are dealing with uncertainty here, is to perhaps try to not get mired down in overanalysing, I know this is hard to do, can't count the number of days and nights i've spent trying to figure out what came first, what caused what, how this is related to that and so on. But I think we all have to take action as fast as our energy level, emotional state, and finances will permit. It's like peeling back the layers of the onion, trying to create a cleaner safer living enviroment, trying this detox protocol, or that protocol, taking this test, that test, to see what can be learnt, and ideally lead to health improvements thru avoidance, diagnostic tests and therapeutic trials...adn the frustrating thing is all of this still might not help...but maybe it will and so we have to keep trying. I will also add that there can be connections between things that you wouldn't even think connect for example EMFs promote mold and fungal growth so if we live in strong EMF fields that could be countering efforts to eradicate mold or fungal infections...and then there are all the possible connections that no one has ever thought of or discovered yet... Sue >Robin, > >I do try to consider, as you say, " who you are talking to and what >they are asking before lecturing. " > >So I won't lecture you. I will be very direct. > >In spite of your insistence that you already know what we lecture >you about, your questions indicate that you either don't know or >are still not clear about the complex relationships of the multitude >of factors. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 Robin: I am not sure where you are coming from, but may I remind you that Carl and Dr Thrasher have spent many months responding to your posts and answering your questions with much detail. I think we are very fortunate to have such knowledgable members who take their time to help us in any way they can. D > > Carl, > > I tried to repsond and hit a key that sent my post of to moderator land potentially never to be seen again or off into the internet ethers. > > I have had 3-4 posts not sent on by moderators.. and I dont get that at all.. I can se with the first one since I used quite a few caps and quite frankly told you all off but even then, not as offensive in my book as the cranky and or partonizing posts coming from you all who are the list experts. > > That said.. if you want to address new folks or continue to remind the community that it is more than mold spores I suggest you create a file post that will automatically go out either weekly, bi monthly or monthly. Not saying dont bring up the stew in any other context, but please consider who you are talking to and what they are asking before lecturing. > > Now I will attempt to post yet again my last somewhat frustrated post that was not allowed the last time to post to the list... bear in mind this was before your apology and I am too tired adn in too much pain to re address my points so here it is as it was: > > This may be the last time I post to this list. Ive had three posts not go through and Im tired of it. I am also tired of the " experts " on this list ignoring the question asked (dishonoring it, disrespecting the poster) and using most any of not all questions about mycotoxins to lecture about the wet building damage stew. > > You should feel free to take any personal opportunity to post about the stew but not in a disrespectful way. We get snappy and we get " kind " disrespect. > > I get it.. its not all or nothing ever one thing or another. But sometimes it is. I have lyme. But is it active and causing my problems, I dont know. Im not going to say I have lyme therefore all my symptoms are lyme nor am I going to ignore the fact I do. > > At some point we have a terrain issue not only before illness sets in but also as a result of illness setting in. > > Same with mycotoxins. Its not all or nothing, black or white or existing in a vacuum. > > When I ask about mycos, thats what i want to talk about. If I ask about lyme thats what I want to talk about. If I ask about the wet builidng damage stew, thats what i want to talk about. If you dont, fine. > > I am not an insurance company, court, and if I were asking about a court case, I would say so. I was asking about fusarium and if any potential impact on health when in outdoor and and indoor air from most likely outdoor source. > > ( what i did get from out exchange it this: it depend on the type of fusarium, depends on the growth source (and yes I know the stew if it exists in this context), a count of 100 or less of even a potentially toxic mold like fusarium is low, some people though may be more reactive than others and this might depend on the condition of the biotoxin pathway-cytokine reactivity.. VIP< MSH, etc., the same mold can create a diff toxin intensity, quaility depending on the substrate.) > > Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 I must answer in support of , Cark and myself. You keep asking questions regarding a single entity of WDB and outdoor environment. As professionals we cannot give an answer to a single entity. People are responding to the complexity of the indoor and sometimes outdoor environments. Yes, Fusarium is present in indoor and outdoor environments, so are multiple species of other fungal genera. The same can be said about the bacteria. For example Streptomyces, Mycobacterium, Nocardia, etc. are grow indoors and are soil bacteria. Therefore, answer the following question, when you go outdoors are you adversely responding to mycotoxins or the toxins produced by the bacteria I just mentioned? My professional opinion is all of the above. As I recall both Carl and agree. [] Re: Fusarium Carl, I tried to repsond and hit a key that sent my post of to moderator land potentially never to be seen again or off into the internet ethers. I have had 3-4 posts not sent on by moderators.. and I dont get that at all.. I can se with the first one since I used quite a few caps and quite frankly told you all off but even then, not as offensive in my book as the cranky and or partonizing posts coming from you all who are the list experts. That said.. if you want to address new folks or continue to remind the community that it is more than mold spores I suggest you create a file post that will automatically go out either weekly, bi monthly or monthly. Not saying dont bring up the stew in any other context, but please consider who you are talking to and what they are asking before lecturing. Now I will attempt to post yet again my last somewhat frustrated post that was not allowed the last time to post to the list... bear in mind this was before your apology and I am too tired adn in too much pain to re address my points so here it is as it was: This may be the last time I post to this list. Ive had three posts not go through and Im tired of it. I am also tired of the " experts " on this list ignoring the question asked (dishonoring it, disrespecting the poster) and using most any of not all questions about mycotoxins to lecture about the wet building damage stew. You should feel free to take any personal opportunity to post about the stew but not in a disrespectful way. We get snappy and we get " kind " disrespect. I get it.. its not all or nothing ever one thing or another. But sometimes it is. I have lyme. But is it active and causing my problems, I dont know. Im not going to say I have lyme therefore all my symptoms are lyme nor am I going to ignore the fact I do. At some point we have a terrain issue not only before illness sets in but also as a result of illness setting in. Same with mycotoxins. Its not all or nothing, black or white or existing in a vacuum. When I ask about mycos, thats what i want to talk about. If I ask about lyme thats what I want to talk about. If I ask about the wet builidng damage stew, thats what i want to talk about. If you dont, fine. I am not an insurance company, court, and if I were asking about a court case, I would say so. I was asking about fusarium and if any potential impact on health when in outdoor and and indoor air from most likely outdoor source. ( what i did get from out exchange it this: it depend on the type of fusarium, depends on the growth source (and yes I know the stew if it exists in this context), a count of 100 or less of even a potentially toxic mold like fusarium is low, some people though may be more reactive than others and this might depend on the condition of the biotoxin pathway-cytokine reactivity.. VIP< MSH, etc., the same mold can create a diff toxin intensity, quaility depending on the substrate.) Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 I look at outdoor exposures like this, there's a factor of " clean air " involved, usually, or moveing air. so yes, me might get some exposure out side but it's very diluted and sually not a problem, may make you fell a little worse over all, may come in threw cracks in the window frames, ect. but still nothing like a exposure sorce inside with lack of fresh air involved. Robin hope you can see what I'm try to say. theres been days outside where the air just seems to be high in paticles ,whatever they are, and I can fell somewhat worse on those days, I really dont care about whats there, probably more than I could amagion. now there have been cases where I've gotton pretty ill from outdoor exposures, but theres always been a sorce from fairly close by, and I usually figure it out at some point. if it's a sorce close by like a nasty trash bin, it can bother me more when theres just a small, light bleeze move the filth my direction and with time, being in the same place you can reconize when you can open windows or cant. I dont think anyone can tell you if the outdoor fusarium in your area well be heavy enough to borther you, or cause any problems indoors if theres not a moisture sorce for it to start growing. yes, I would take precautions like maybe haveing people take their shoes off. if it is heavy in the air there it might be tracked in more, but seems it still wouldn't be a hudge problem unless it got tracked in to the point wear it's heavy in the carpet. and if a kid spills a drink or something that could cause some mold growth in the padding or carpet. it may just take some time for you to see weither or not it well be a problem. I live in a pretty moldy state, all and all, sometimes of the year it does smell moldy outside, and it borthers me if I hang out outside than. usually it's when the air is calm and the conditions are just right for it. I can get to felling pretty crappy when storm fronts come through because there is alot of particles carried with that air. but after it starts to rain I fell much better. I only open my windows when it's raining, but now blowing in rain, or right after the rain for awhile, sometimes in the winter and play freazeout for a bit. or some days that I can step outside and know the airs pretty clean for me to tolerate. until you get unmasked to where you dont suffer reactions unless you are re-exposed, your just not going to be able to tell whats going to work for you. do you fell alot worse outside? > > Robin, > > I do try to consider, as you say, " who you are talking to and what > they are asking before lecturing. " > > So I won't lecture you. I will be very direct. > > In spite of your insistence that you already know what we lecture > you about, your questions indicate that you either don't know or > are still not clear about the complex relationships of the multitude > of factors. > > If you knew you would not be asking the questions you do, and > won't keep repeating them in slightly different ways. It's almost as > if you believe the truth is being withheld from you. And if you can > just keep pushing and pushing eventually Dr Thrasher or I or > someone else will let it slip out. > > We are telling the truth and the whole truth as it is known by the > best international experts as published in their studies, reports, > presentations and sometimes by direct contact with them. We > even include the speculation and future hypotheses they are > researching. > > Your questions are demanding specific answers which do not > exist. The answers to your questions are based on environmental > relationships which do not exist or are as yet not known. > > When you say, " When I ask about mycos, thats what i want to > talk about. If I ask about lyme thats what I want to talk about. If I > ask about the wet builidng damage stew, thats what i want to talk > about. " > > What we are trying to tell you is based on your questions about > what is causing your problems we cannot answer them > individually in isolation from the others. They are interactive. > > For example, " I was asking about fusarium and if any potential > impact on health when in outdoor and and indoor air from most > likely outdoor source. " > > Yes, there is a potential. There is also a potential for it not to be. > What is it actually in your situation? I don't know. For me or Dr > Thrasher or anyone else to answer your question specific to you > we must know all those details you say we are lecturing you on. > And they can not be discerned by any kind of sampling without all > those details in our lectures. The spore counts are almost never > relevant and if they are, they are only because the relationships > of all the details are known. That is why we keep talking about > them. They must be known in order to answer your questions. > > I now hope you don't think I'm rude or insensitive. Or that I just > lecturing you in another way. But there are some things that are > facts and they won't change by opinions. Those facts are > complex and dynamically inter-related. Without the details of > those facts and their relationships - which we don't know and you > don't know - your questions cannot be answered. > > Carl Grimes > Healthy Habitats LLC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2010 Report Share Posted December 9, 2010 this is my own opinnion, to me it seems that VOC'S, MVOC's , man made chemicals that off gas , and what these can do to the sinuses,mucosa, trigiminal nerve, olfactory bulb,tract and limbic system dont get much attn. to me, they seemed to have played a pretty big role with my second exposure, and things in this catagory are what I seem to have a hudge problem with being around sence my exposure. next, I cant ignore the fact that I no doubt had some form of bacterial exposure with my second exposure and that bacterial biofilm may be just as much of a problem for me as mold biofilm. my second home had a uncapped sewer pipe, reconized by me because the smell was horriable. the well water was contaminated, there was also a water heater vent that was vented into a chimney that was none functional. very little testing was done, only air tests for mold, a few swabs, and the well water, I had a moisture meter and documented the high moisture only because the dang carpet and cloths and stuffed furniture all were damp, obvious. but all these things were documented because they happened. I got very sick the first time I looked at the place but it was cold and windy outside and my doctor said I had a ear acke, cold and flu symptoms, and asthma. and thats what he treated me for. had I gotten a proper diagnoses, I might have gotten better more proper testing done on the home . I really dont see how all this confusion well ever end unless we first start getting diagnosed quickly and properly, and theres some kind of law in place to get these homes tested properly and quickly. it seems many of the answers come when both the medical and the home testing is done properly. and whats not know yet would become known if our goverment cared enough the treat these exposures as posioning's which is what they are. > > I look at outdoor exposures like this, there's a factor of " clean air " involved, usually, or moveing air. so yes, me might get some exposure out side but it's very diluted and sually not a problem, may make you fell a little worse over all, may come in threw cracks in the window frames, ect. but still nothing like a exposure sorce inside with lack of fresh air involved. Robin hope you can see what I'm try to say. theres been days outside where the air just seems to be high in paticles ,whatever they are, and I can fell somewhat worse on those days, I really dont care about whats there, probably more than I could amagion. now there have been cases where I've gotton pretty ill from outdoor exposures, but theres always been a sorce from fairly close by, and I usually figure it out at some point. > if it's a sorce close by like a nasty trash bin, it can bother me more when theres just a small, light bleeze move the filth my direction and with time, being in the same place you can reconize when you can open windows or cant. > I dont think anyone can tell you if the outdoor fusarium in your area well be heavy enough to borther you, or cause any problems indoors > if theres not a moisture sorce for it to start growing. > yes, I would take precautions like maybe haveing people take their shoes off. if it is heavy in the air there it might be tracked in more, but seems it still wouldn't be a hudge problem unless it got > tracked in to the point wear it's heavy in the carpet. > and if a kid spills a drink or something that could cause some mold growth in the padding or carpet. > it may just take some time for you to see weither or not it well be a problem. > I live in a pretty moldy state, all and all, sometimes of the year it does smell moldy outside, and it borthers me if I hang out outside than. usually it's when the air is calm and the conditions are just right for it. > > I can get to felling pretty crappy when storm fronts come through because there is alot of particles carried with that air. > but after it starts to rain I fell much better. > > I only open my windows when it's raining, but now blowing in rain, or right after the rain for awhile, sometimes in the winter and play freazeout for a bit. or some days that I can step outside and know the airs pretty clean for me to tolerate. > until you get unmasked to where you dont suffer reactions unless you are re-exposed, your just not going to be able to tell whats going to work for you. > > do you fell alot worse outside? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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