Guest guest Posted June 5, 1999 Report Share Posted June 5, 1999 Hello Helge, How nice to have an annual outing with other JRA families! I can see that something like that would be very good for allof the children involved. And, of course, the parents, too :-) Are there many families in your area with children who have JRA? Out of all, about how many have the systemic type? As you know, we have only 2 pediatric rheumatologists in the state. They travel to each of the Hawaiian islands once a month to do the JRA clinics. That is where we meet and get tot talk. For the children, they have an annual JRA camp. I think there are about 30 children total who go. Not all have the systemic type, though. Josh went for the first time last year and he is looking forward to it again, this year. Aloha, in simple terms, means both hello and goodbye. In broader terms, it means many other things, as well. I will find out for sure from my friend who has studied the language. It encompasses a lot of things: warmth, caring, love, concern. When people speak of the aloha spirit, it stands for friendliness and being kind to others. Thoughtfulness. You get the idea :-) Fortunately, it is not just a tourism come-on. There really is a lot of Aloha in these islands. For the native peoples and for the visitors. They are very welcoming here. Oh, Helge, I can imagine your concern for both and ne when ne had those pains in her legs! Vic must have been so worried! I hope it is okay by now. And, like you said, just a false alarm. Maybe too much exertion or growing pains? is so compassionate. She must have been worried. So, one of the girls in your area has gotten approved for Enbrel?!? What is her age and what are her symptoms like? She has tried the other meds and failed? I hope this will work for her. Does she have the same doctors as ? I hope her parents will keep you appraised of how it goes for her. Yes, maybe Vic will be approved soon. I can tell that you are very enthusiatic about this. Are you also a bit frightened of it? Aloha, Georgina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 1999 Report Share Posted September 2, 1999 Well, the Doctor gave the go ahead for every third day for the steroids. It will be interesting to see how it goes. The way the steroids work is that they knock out the crazy white cells that send messages to multiply and cause inflammation. The life cycle of these is about 48 hours I believe. Hence the every other day dosage. In some people their 'crazy cells' may be more aggressive so they need it every day. I don't know how this works in the case where a child gets a big dose once a week unless it's just that their system needs a big blast (like an atom bomb) every once in a while (7 days) I know a boy who gets 110 mg Decaron every Thursday. That's about equal to 1000 mg Prednisone once a week in a blast! He is 8. Then he takes Prednisone daily too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 1999 Report Share Posted September 3, 1999 <!doctype html public " -//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en " > <html> Hi, <p>I've heard very good things about taking prednisone on an alternate day schedule... just as good an effect and little or no side effects, compared to daily dosing. Unfortunately, I had never heard anything about this kind of a schedule until my son had already been taking steroids daily for well over a year. When I mentioned it to his doctors they said okay, we'll see if we can give it a try. He was down to 10mgs a day at that point, if I'm remembering correctly. Either it was too soon after a decrease from 12.5mgs a day or his system just couldn't handle it for other reasons (maybe sluggish adrenal glands?) but it was a disaster for us. Josh went downhill very quickly and we had to more than double the dose just to get him stable and out of the new flare it caused. I really wished we had tried alternate day doses right from the start, when my son Josh went from high intravenous doses at the hospital to oral tablets right before discharge. Unfortunately, it was never mentioned to me as an alternative and I didn't learn about it until I went online. Then again, it might not have worked for him even back then. <p>Take care, <br>Georgina <br> & nbsp; <br> & nbsp; <p> S wrote: <blockquote TYPE=CITE>By the way, our previous doctor (Dr. Jerry s - who died 2 years ago) <br>was a big advocate of taking steroids every other day rather than every day. <br>Currently we haven't been able to do that. & nbsp; What are people's experiences <br>with giving steroids on alternate days?</blockquote> </html> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 1999 Report Share Posted September 3, 1999 <!doctype html public " -//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en " > <html> Hi , <p>I guess after you sent this message, you spoke again with the doctor? I'm glad you were both able to come up with a compromise that is more suitable and to your liking. No-one knows your daughter as well as you do. You're the one who sees her each day and knows how she's doing. The doctors only see the kids infrequently, so you are probably a better judge of her well being. Just don't go too fast, once you get down to lower levels. I know how you feel about wanting her on lower doses. I definitely do! I've been in the exact same position, trying to convince the doctors it's time to go down. Right away! <p>I once even brought in some pictures of Josh pre-prednisone, to show the rheumy. He hadn't, at that point, ever seen my child the way he normally looks. The way I remembered him. I missed the old Josh we knew and couldn't quite get used to the new look. I even cried about it. It was really hard. He was so bloated and chubby, compared to the before pictures. The doctor knew where I was coming from. He had seen the same thing before, from other parents. And he sat with me and comforted me and told me it wouldn't be forever. And he was right. We got to lower doses and the side effects were minimized. And Josh started looking and acting the way he used to. He has very little symptoms and side effects at a dose of around 10mgs prednisone. Until the darn JRA decides to rear it's ugly head again :-( <p>Take care, <br>Georgina <blockquote TYPE=CITE>From: Skis@... <p>I was speaking with our rheumy today and asked why it is we do big steroid <br>doses on Mon, Wed and Fri and how come we get to go two days at the week end. <br>Can't we just do big steroid doses every third day? & nbsp; (If the patient is <br>holding well on the second day without a big dose.) & nbsp; His answer was that <br>doctors like to have consistency with dosing and it gets too complicated for <br>parents the way I suggested. I volunteered to take the responsibility for <br>figuring out the schedule of two days off one day on. He said although it <br>probably wouldn't do our daughter any harm he would rather we keep to his <br>schedule so that he can compare to other cases and have more consistency. <br>I'm caught here as I can see the merit for his purposes the way he wants me <br>to do it but I see the awful side effects of the steroids and want to give <br>her less rather than more if I can. What do other parents feel about this? <br>Should I stick with tradition for the sake of every one else and consistency <br>for the doctor or shall I do what I feel is best for our daughter?</blockquote> </html> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 1999 Report Share Posted September 3, 1999 takes pedie pred in two doses in a day 3mg in the am and 3mg in the pm I think what ever your doctors thoughts are is how it must be given because it all seems different with each of our children >From: " S " <charles_c_s@...> >Reply- onelist > onelist >Subject: [ ] steroids >Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 07:28:14 PDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >From errors-80038-1180-shancna Thu Sep 02 07:38:38 1999 >Received: from [209.207.164.225] by hotmail.com (2.1) with ESMTP id >MHotMailB997D6EC01A9D82197E3D1CFA4E138720; Thu Sep 02 07:38:38 1999 >Received: (qmail 16227 invoked by alias); 2 Sep 1999 14:35:59 -0000 >Received: (qmail 16209 invoked from network); 2 Sep 1999 14:35:57 -0000 >Received: from unknown (HELO ewey.excite.com) (198.3.99.191) by >pop1.onelist.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 1999 14:35:57 -0000 >Received: from zero.excite.com ([199.172.152.241]) by ewey.excite.com >(InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id ><19990902142814.TRLP25391.ewey@...> for < onelist>; >Thu, 2 Sep 1999 07:28:14 -0700 >Message-Id: <936282494.27666.278@...> >X-Mailer: Excite Mail >X-Sender-Ip: 208.194.97.9 >Mailing-List: list onelist; contact -owneronelist >Delivered-mailing list onelist >Precedence: bulk >List-Unsubscribe: <mailto: -unsubscribeONElist> > >From: " S " <charles_c_s@...> > >Re message from Skis@...: that " I was speaking with our rheumy >today and asked why it is we do big steroid doses on Mon, Wed and Fri and >how come we get to go two days at the week end. >Can't we just do big steroid doses every third day? (If the patient is >holding well on the second day without a big dose.) " > >I'm not a doctor, but I believe the steroids that your daughter is taking >accumulate over the week and don't immediately dissipate after 48 hours, so >that if you cut it down to once every three days you would probably have to >increase the dosage, and you don't gain much. > >By the way, our previous doctor (Dr. Jerry s - who died 2 years ago) >was a big advocate of taking steroids every other day rather than every >day. >Currently we haven't been able to do that. What are people's experiences >with giving steroids on alternate days? > > > > >________________________________________________________________ >Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com >Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com > >--------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 1999 Report Share Posted September 5, 1999 Hi Georgina, As we mentioned before, Elliot was on alternate day steroids and when he flared under the care of his second doctor we began daily. When he started to look cushingoid I felt very badly that we went to a daily regiment. My pediatrician who had recommended both doctors put things in perspective for me. He told me that Elliot hadn't experienced a flare under the care of his first doctor, and he knew of other patients of the first doctor (who had died) who needed to get onto a daily regiment when they were ill. So I didn't have a real basis of comparison. I also had to keep in mind that by the time Elliot looked puffy he had been taken steroids overall for a longer period of time. Over this past year Elliot was on daily steroids and we got back down to alterate day about the time we started the Enbrel. But the labs were slipping and we recently increased the dosage of steroids to daily. In addition I have an adult friend who has aplastic anemia (not from RA) who had a bone marrow transplant. He couldn't tolerate alternate days steroids. He felt very sick on the off day, and so he tapers very slowly. Wishing you the best. Rena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 1999 Report Share Posted September 30, 1999 During the initial flare she was on 15 mls. for three days. This was before she was diagnosed; her pediatrician prescribed them. After the three days her pain came back. After two months of pain she was put on a taper dose (tapering one ml. each week) starting at 5 mls. We got her down to two and then the pain and this time swelling came back. So, back up to five again and then slooowwly down to 1 ml. She stayed on that dose, as you know, for quite a while. So, we're hoping that the bloodwork looks good. Sounds like is doing okay with her reduction schedule. Each small step is a success, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 1999 Report Share Posted October 5, 1999 Dear Georgina, About what an ml is: I'm sure I just have it wrong and it's an mg. Anyway, Grace is still doing well off the steroids. She had blood drawn yesterday and tomorrow we go to the Ped. Rheumie. to find out the results. Grace's shoes suddenly don't fit anymore which I think means she's growing (at least her feet!). Sorry to hear Josh is achy. What a walk/runner though! N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 1999 Report Share Posted October 5, 1999 , Be sure to post Grace's results. We'll keep our finger crossed for you. That's great news about he shoes!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 1999 Report Share Posted December 5, 1999 Georgina & Group We increased Elliot's steroids from 1.5 mg daily to 9 mg daily, because Elliot wasn't doing well as you know. Now he's back to himself, jumping around and all. Elliot has been haven't a little trouble sleeping and some nightmares since the increase on steroids. Is that common? I believe we'll still try the Remicade and then try to taper the steroids if possible. How is Josh doing? Did he start on Enbrel? Best regards. Charlie >From: Georgina <gmckin@...> >Charlie S wrote: > > We would be upping Elliot on the steroids but the doctor said to try to >get > > through to his next visit (next week), since he wants to start him on > > Remicade. I'm not sure if the doctor is especially cautious re steriods >b/c > > of the AVN scare we had. It's just that we don't have a quick fix till >he > > gets on the new medicine and who knows if it will help and how long it >will take. > > Regards. > > Charlie >Good luck to Elliot, with the new medicine. I hope this is the one that >will have the most positive benefits and finally get it under control. I >understand your worries. We've been there, too. One day at a time .... >Aloha, >Georgina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 1999 Report Share Posted December 6, 1999 Hi, It's good to know that there's at least one med available, the last resort, that seems to work wonders very quickly. I know people sometimes say it's just a bandaid treatment that just masks underlying illness but it certainly does help stop the pain from inflammation pretty fast. I'm happy to hear that Elliot is active and not limping once again! What you mentioned, the trouble sleeping and nightmares, is a somewhat common side effect. Especially when the dose is raised, before the body gets accustomed to the higher level. The dreams can be much more vivid, too. He does take the prednisone in the am hours? If it's in the evening, that could make it worse. No, Charlie. Josh's doctors are resistant to his trying enbrel at this stage. They haven't given it to any of their JRA patients yet. He may try Arava though. They told me they'd let me know what they find out ~ at our next appt. The nurse may be calling to schedule tomorrow. One of the doctors flies over to our island once a month and they call a week or so in advance, to set up the time. I'm also going to ask what they think about the possibility of his trying cyclosporine pills. I guess there's still several options left for us to try, if Josh doesn't do well on the current meds. I'll let you guys know what they say. Take care, Georgina Charlie S wrote: > We increased Elliot's steroids from 1.5 mg daily to 9 mg daily, because > Elliot wasn't doing well as you know. Now he's back to himself, jumping > around and all. > Elliot has been haven't a little trouble sleeping and some nightmares since > the increase on steroids. Is that common? > > I believe we'll still try the Remicade and then try to taper the steroids if > possible. How is Josh doing? Did he start on Enbrel? > Best regards. > Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 1999 Report Share Posted December 8, 1999 Hi Charlie, Robbie has always had problems sleeping and nightmares from steriods. The higher the dose, the more trouble he has. Jana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2000 Report Share Posted February 14, 2000 Hi . I am so sorry about your daughter and it must be so much harder for her as she knows how to feel well. is taking steroids,a very small amount of oral 0.25ml daily and once a week (Monday) has 380mg Solumedrol which is given IV via a portacath. I know this may not suit your child but the side effects are not nearly as bad as with the oral. With NOMID only steroids seem to help, so you can imagine how I felt knowing what damage the steroids would take out on but he has even put on a couple of inches in the last year. The only thing which I find frustrating with the IV steroids is that our insurance will only cover for it to be given at our house or in Texas Children's Hospital otherwise we have to pay.Doesn't give much time if you want a vacation or as in my case visit the UK. Hope you find the right medication for her thinking of you Katexxxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2000 Report Share Posted May 19, 2000 Dear Moles Family, Steroids can cause insomnia and nightmares. When n was on high doses of steroids we gave her the steroids as early in the morning as possible. Maybe you could ask your doctor when it is the next time to reduce, if you could just give all 30mg in the morning, that is considered a reduction. Do you see a ped. rheumy in NO? We are from New Orleans, we moved to Oregon nine years ago. A good friend of ours has battled systemic JRA, and see a ped. rheumy at Children's. She is now in remission. Good luck. steroids >Hi all from Karl's mom. The fatigue is ebbing, no pain or fever. >The side effects from the steroids are yucky though. He seems a >little depressed and wants to eat all of the time. He asks me what >were having for breakfast at bedtime the night before! In addition >it has begun to affect his sleep. > >We are going down to 30mg this week. twenty in the A.M. and ten in >the P.M. He looks so well now its hard to believe he was ever so >sick. We are due for a doctor visit in New Orleans on Tuesday. Good >weekend to all. > >The Moles Family > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Remember four years of good friends, bad clothes, explosive chemistry >experiments. >1/4051/2/_/524922/_/958743971/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >For links to websites with JRA info visit: >http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Village/8414/Links.html > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2000 Report Share Posted May 20, 2000 Speaking from an adults point of view I'm on 4 mg of Decadron every other day which my doc says equals out to 10 mg of Prednisone every day. I wake up soaked in sweat probably 4 mornings out of 7. Not a pretty sight. Also there are days that I get this " sunburned " feeling to my skin. It usually happens if I'm off by a couple of hours with my dose. Also I'm getting what the doctor calls " steroid acne " . Mostly on my neck and upper arms, it looks like a rash to me but to him its acne. There are some nights I don't get to bed until 3 or 4 in the morning and of course have to be back up the next day by 7 to get the girls ready. The insomnia isn't constant but the nights its bad, its really bad. I've been on the Decadron for almost 2 months now and will probably be on it another 6. Sounds like fun huh! Ursula Holleman Macey and 's mom http://home.att.net/~maceyh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2000 Report Share Posted June 29, 2000 I was told by my LLMD that steroids cause blindness in people with Lyme. I have severe asthma and when I was so bad they wanted to put me on steroids and I had to decline. Also when I got badly burned from the sun cause of doxy, the dermatologists gave me a steroid cream; the LLmd threw that in the garbage as well. So that is what I know about steroids and Lyme. KIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2000 Report Share Posted July 22, 2000 janalise wrote: I have been dealing with the side effects from steroids since before 1985 - but now i seem to have the side effects but good... the ugly stretch marks from eight gain - the appetite for donuts, breads, not necessarily sweet - but bready and i mean big time - whole cakes, whole boxes of breads... and it doesn't even phase my appetite... i have swollen CHIPMUNK cheeks, pads of fat on my shoulders and on the base of the back of my neck - also my internal thermostat is constantly upside down... i shake all the time, too... If you promise not to laugh at me, I will send you a picture of me from Christmas 1997 and 1998.... I have threatened to burn all the pictures because I look like a beached whale! In July 1997, I weighed 140 lbs. at my heaviest! By Christmas 1997 I weighed 160+, and by Christmas 1998 I was over 200!!!! I didn't take that real well. But in 1998, I also had 9 ICU admissions in less than 7 months time. So you can just imagine how many doses of IV steroids I had! It was in 1997 & 1998 that I was on steroids by mouth for 18 months straight, plus all the IV and IM doses each time I went to the ER, ICU, etc.! I haven't had any steroids since January 2000, and I am losing weight now!!! As of my last ENT appointment (the last time I came close to a scale... not by choice!) I weighed 173 lbs., not making me real happy yet, but at least I don't look like the totally the beached whale thing anymore... Thank God!!!!! Hope this downward thing on the scale continues!!! I am now able to wear some clothes that I actually was ready to give away!!! I guess this is ONE good thing about my Mega-Case of...... Queen of Procrastination!!!! I hope everyone is having a good day. My allergies are doing there thing again.... my throat itches so bad I could scream! This is not a good deal! If anyone has any suggestions how to move the elephant off my chest.... I'd be real happy! My chest is really tight, and it is annoying me to no end! I am still moving air, but only with effort!!! Want these dumb things to go away! I do know that my allergies are NOT Due to my antibiotics though, because the three times I have been away from home in the last 72 hours, I have been fine! Or I could identify what was setting off my allergies when out and about... because it was a pretty immediate reaction to perfume, cleaning chemicals, and such! Want to hear a funny story about my allergies, this happened Thursday afternoon at the Police Department in my city of residence, when I went to drop off more information about the chic that tried to kill me..... That visit was trip! I have huge chemical allergies, and the cleaning crew mopped the floor behind me, and set off my allergies to the point that I was almost leaving there in "Big Truck.. Lots of Lights". NOT a good patient, so tried other things before my airway could shut down completely. Due to the severity of my allergies, I carry all the ALS meds to treat an allergic reaction except the steroids (hate those anyway!). My oxygen was cranked to the top, and I pulled out a syringe that was pre-drawn up containing Benadryl. Some guy came down the steps to pick up his gun permit... he rang the bell for someone to come talk to him, and told the secretary that I was just "shooting up" standing outside the information window. He demanded that a police officer come out and arrest me for use of illegal drugs in the police station.... I couldn't breathe real well, and I couldn't talk at all because my allergies are all upper airway, so I lose my voice, start to squeak (stridor), and usually go downhill from there.... REAL FAST! From exposure to respiratory distress was seconds, maybe 2 minutes at the most, so it was REALLY FAST, and that usually also means that it is going to be REALLY WICKED, & LIFE THREATENING! One of the officers did come out to where I was. Saw me, saw my ALS oxygen bag, and said.... "Oh Hi Anne, how are you today? Allergies giving you trouble again? Do we need to call for ALS assistance? Or are you still holding your own?" I would have loved having my camera out to catch the look on his face!! It was classic! If breathing hadn't been such a problem already... I would have rolled around on the floor laughing hysterically!!!! I know many of the officers because they are the First Responders for all the 911 calls.... Police, Fire, then paramedics have been to my house more times than I care to think about..... specifically for my allergies! So he had been to my home enough that he knew who I was on sight! I really do wish I had my camera out, because I thought this guy was going to code! The officer asked where i had given my shot, when I pointed my upper arm, where the blood spots were on my shirt, he explained to the guy that it was an IM injection, and if I had been "shooting up", I had done it in the wrong place... or I missed my vein big time! Just thought I would share my funny time. It totally cracked me up. Once the Benadryl hit my system... I was fine.. came home and went to bed! See, having allergies can be entertaining sometimes!!! Have a great day all!!!!! Love Always, Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2000 Report Share Posted July 24, 2000 Hi Jana..how are you? I hope that you are getting your strength back day by day...we miss you around here.. <the appetite for donuts, breads, not necessarily sweet - but bready and i mean big time -> that's usually a good indicator that you have candida......would you like me to post a candida quiz? It's to see if candida maybe a problem for you.The more yeasty ,sugar creating things that you eat the worse it gets...the more bacteria grows...the worse you feel....more bloated, more gassy, etc.....it sucks..i used to have it pretty bad too.Along with being hypoglycemic and my other health problems. Sheena;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2001 Report Share Posted April 9, 2001 In a message dated 4/9/01 6:44:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, moores@... writes: > I would like to see some > long-term studies on low-dose steroid use but I am not aware that such > studies exist. > I think there are such studies and that's why most docs don't consider them a great thing to prescribe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2001 Report Share Posted April 9, 2001 In a message dated 4/9/01 6:44:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, moores@... writes: > I would like to see some > long-term studies on low-dose steroid use but I am not aware that such > studies exist. > Let me correct myself though. There are many " intermediate term use " studies out there and since they are not that promising that's why there may not be many long term studies b/c if it is not good in the intermediate term then it is especially not going to be good long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2001 Report Share Posted April 9, 2001 Anyone with a chronic infection will feel improved initially on steroids only to get much worse later, as it lower your immune response to the infection, it gives it all the time in the world to blossom. Many, many a lyme patient with this kind of story to tell. FWIW Nelly (who can't understand why not more people here look into Lyme seriously) steroids > I have had both good luck & bad luck with predispose. The first time I took > it I got a remission of several months. Since then when I take it I get > short term relief followed by a big time crash. I would like to see some > long-term studies on low-dose steroid use but I am not aware that such > studies exist. > Steve > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2001 Report Share Posted April 9, 2001 The AMJ study using 30 mg. a day (way too high a dose) was fairly long but was cut short because the patients were becoming ian. The Lancet study using lower doses was only a month long I believe. It would be good to have a 6 or 12 months study using something like 5 mg./day. steroids > I have had both good luck & bad luck with predispose. The first time I took > it I got a remission of several months. Since then when I take it I get > short term relief followed by a big time crash. I would like to see some > long-term studies on low-dose steroid use but I am not aware that such > studies exist. > Steve > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2002 Report Share Posted March 14, 2002 I have to agree with Dr.Siff on this highly. In my years of training with international bodybuilders and designing their nutrition and " supplementation " schedules I picked up a few things, not in the least the role that steroids play in top level sports these days. Its also been my experience that the only people who deny the ever-present use of these compounds in ALL top-level sports by over 80% of their top-level practicioners, are those who have never been there or have never moved in these circles. What is most naive, and I'm surprised Dr.Siff hasn't addressed this himself, is that you think a different training approach is responsible for the drastic performance increases of Olympic athletes and the seriously cartoonesque look of current bodybuilders. Much respect to protagonist of HIT, who introduced intensity, a practice that was lost during the years of overtraining in the late 70's and 80's, but lets be realistic here. Or are we forgetting what made that overtraining possible and still allowed people to book success ? The number of nandrolone positives in soccer players, the positoves for stana in short-distance runners or EPO in long-distance athletes alone should show you the upward trend illegal ergogenic aids are making. Hell, the pharmaceutical research in the area has had an enormous boom in keeping up with the current drug testing. > Firstly AAS is highly glorified and vilified for its so-called > benefits in enhancing performance. You kid yourself. Take my training sessions for a while, next time I have a new talent that is just starting on AAS. And watch him put on 4 pounds a week, 10 weeks straight without any major differences in training where he barely gained 4 pounds over 6 months before that. > [There are very few people in top sport today who believe that the > ergogenic > effects of AAS are exaggerated. If you are non-competitive at this > stage and not likely > to be tested, why don't you try a clinical dose of bol or > Winstrol (as did Ben > ) for a few months, design an appropriate training routine and > see if > the effects are illusory? If you are concerned about possible > adverse side-effects, > have periodic liver function tests and keep the doses civilised over > a period of > sensible on-off cycles for about 9 months. Mel Siff] Agree here. Take him up on this suggestion and see what gives. Then come back and lecture those of us who have been there... > In such a scenario I am sure > that an " All-American lifter " isn't much much above resorting to > steroid use to get to the top. Lets face it every country has > athletes who dope. Yet history is witness to the fact that the > Russian and other East Europeans have comprehensively won the > Athletic Cold War… with or without steroids. Today that is definitely the case. 80% of all top-level athletes use some form of doping. Hell, over half the American olympic team is prescribed Clenbuterol agains exercise induced asthma, a condition present in only 10% of the total population. Coincidence ? I doubt it. 30 years ago however, most Western athletes were not that familiar with these substances. Not because they weren't looking for them, but because of the naive belief that you share : that they didn't work. Result, the Russian and East German scientists that were allowed to work with Olympic hopefuls booked great results and these countries made drastic advances. Now everyone uses them just to keep up. > Secondly steroids isn't the magic bullet everyone believes them to > be. Yes they can play a part in helping one reach the top but only a > part. Genetics, neurogenic strength (basically the Power of the > Mind), training system, diet, injury prevention, all need to be in > order for steroids to work. I live in India the land where everything > is expensive thanks to a high cost of living except Drugs. I can go > to any pharmacy and purchase Stanazolol for Rupees 16 (approx 25 > cents) without any medical prescription. Recombinant hGH? No problem! Can you hook me up ? Stana usually goes for 6 bucks a vial Diet and drugs are the keys, the rest is irrelavant. Steroids will decrease risk of injury, improve immunity, utilize the food better and generally make the body respond massively to even sub-par training. > I have seen many lifters who have taken massive amounts of steroids > and unfortunately the mythical gains steroids supposedly bestow have > eluded them. Perhaps the many lifters you have seen should learn a thing or two about eating enough and not getting scammed ... > As for what Charlie Francis statement…it's the case with anyone who > gets caught…they accuse everyone else of doing the same. Very little > is known about the ability of steroids. There is some information yet > much misinformation. I agree its a childish notion to point fingers. They all know the risk of getting caught. This does not however mean that the statement is any less true. With todays top-dollar contracts, athletes can't afford to be injured. They need to be on the field in a matter of weeks, for injuries that take months to heal in normal conditions. These athletes need drugs or they lose their career. > All things being equal, steroids do help. But all things are not > equal! > So let's make steroids legal and take the guesswork out of sport. Most sensible thing I've heard so far ... Van Mol Belgium __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2002 Report Share Posted March 14, 2002 Pete Arroyo wrote: . . . the US also bans human testing of said substances **** Actually there are studies going on although they are primarily with HIV positive patients. I'm about half way through " Built to Survive, " written by Mooney and Vergel which provides an extensive reference list. Although steroids are not an answer by themselves in treating this scourge, the book does describe which steroids are used, how they affect different populations and how they can be combined with other drug therapies, supplementation, diet and exercise to prevent wasting and preserve quality of life for many years. Much of this advice translates over to HIV negative individuals involved in the iron game. The book can be ordered through www.medabolics.com which is the web site from which much of information in the book was taken. The site provides a truthful, unbiased source for anyone who has questions about HIV or AIDS, or needs to know where to get help. Rosemary Wedderburn-Vernon Marina del Rey, CA IronRoses@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2002 Report Share Posted May 12, 2002 Cortisone or other steroids are often used in the treatment of spondyloarthropathy diseases. These are most often prescribed by a seven day or different number of day oral tablets package. The doses usually start high and taper off through the treatment time. Systemic injections may also be prescribed, especially for those who cannot tolerate steroids due to stomach and intestinal distress or bleeding. Steroids injections may also be made directly into a joint or tendon area where inflammation is high. I have had such injections into my hips and knees. Steroids can interrup a flare-up or ease extreme symptoms of a flare-up. Steroids do have many long-term side-effects and should not be used as a continuing treatment over months and years. Talk with your physician about your concerns. Typically I may ask for a systemic injection of steroids to try to halt a flare-up perhaps once a year. Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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