Guest guest Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 Robin, I was exposed to stachy, aspergillus and penicillium in very large amounts for 11 years at a major university. I left that environment 12 years ago and I'm still kickin'. Here is some initial information from Dr. ph Klein's website. He personally went through this battle as well and has some good insights to offer. I encourage you to go to his website and read some of the other posts there, too. Try to stay positive and know that there are others who've been there and who care. Joanne http://www.stachy.5u.com/posts.html What should I do if I am sick and my house/appartment is found to have stachybotrys and/or other toxic mold(s)? 1. Determine if you and/or you family have allergic or toxic symptoms. 2. If there is any question of toxicity whatsoever, then you and your family should exit your current enviornment immediately; and, do not bring any of your old possessions, especially including clothing, books, furniture,bedding etc. (this will be further discussed in another post). 3. You should seek medical attention from a qualified expert, but getting out of the environment should be your top priority. 4. Persons affected by mold (especially the mycotoxins of mold) tend to severely underestimate the dangers from their exposure. 5. They tend to make their move far too late. 6. When they are eventually forced to move, they tend to make the mistake of taking their possessions - especially ones made of paper, cardboard, animal fibers (clothing), leather, and similar materials which the mold can readily grow on. This causes cross contamination of their new environment, and the process repeats itself. 7. If you are symptomatic from your mold exposure, get away from it. You can replace the material things, but you may not be able to replace your health! > > We found stachy in bathroom shower knee wall. Aspergillus/penicillim as well and others were behind wall cavity. No idea the stachy until physical test. > > The remediator didnt find much mold he said.. seeming everything was fine but the knee wall.. I had told him to take out any studs that had mold on them and he leaves the knee wall studs. This guy seemed to know his stuff and I am really perplexed. > > So we go back home before the inspection because he didnt see much mold and I take a look and see mold all over the knee wall.. which he coated with some miracle cure that has a 20 year warentee.. for got the name of it. > > So report comes back stachy.. air is great except 7 spores per square meter of stachy in living room. all other air was fine. The bathroom was upstairs, LR main level.. how the heck did the stacy get in teh air in teh LR? > > Inspector said it could ahve come off of clothing, shoes, etc.. or the new plants I had recently bought from lowes.. I read where plants inproved ari quality... questioing that and also questioning the plants as a source of the stachy... > > Also the LR air read 4000 aspergillus, penicillum.. all otehr areas we in good range? > > Any clues as to what was going on? > > We had first inspection 3 months before remediation. I had already stopped using master bath.. source.. because soemthing didnt feel right.. I am chronically ill and had been getting worse.. > > Between the time of first inspection and remediation...had shaking attacks several nights and stopped sleeping in master bedroom.. went to hospital with chest pains, tachy.. checked for pulmonary embolism, heart, etc.. nothing. > > Could not using teh shower.. told my husband probably bette rnot to... the 3 months between teh inspection and the remediation have released more spores? The source of moisture intrusion into the knee wall was improperly sealed tile edges.. should have been caulked.. there was an open seam by this time. > > Lastly.. our outdoor spore count just a few weeks ago was 9000 spores per swquare meter.. much of which is apergillis penicillum.. we live on 10 acres and are surrounded by 100 acres of deciduous trees.. I grew up in alabama where the closet thing to leaf piles we had were pine needles and I am wondering if its possible for some people not to be able to tolerate this. > > I do have the shoemaker halotype but so do my husband and my daughter and they are not bedridden or anywhere near it.. my daghter does have chronic candida though.. could it be mold causing this? > > Sorry so long.. > > Thank you!!! > > Robin > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 sorry, but I dont see where determining weither it is allergic or toxic has a whole lot to do with anything, I think thats bad advice and chances are if your haveing symptoms your being exposed to some type of toxins regardless, so just get out. > > Robin, > > I was exposed to stachy, aspergillus and penicillium in very large amounts for 11 years at a major university. I left that environment 12 years ago and I'm still kickin'. Here is some initial information from Dr. ph Klein's website. He personally went through this battle as well and has some good insights to offer. I encourage you to go to his website and read some of the other posts there, too. Try to stay positive and know that there are others who've been there and who care. > > Joanne > > http://www.stachy.5u.com/posts.html > > What should I do if I am sick and my house/appartment is found to have stachybotrys and/or other toxic mold(s)? > > 1. Determine if you and/or you family have allergic or toxic symptoms. > > 2. If there is any question of toxicity whatsoever, then you and your family should exit your current enviornment immediately; and, do not bring any of your old possessions, especially including clothing, books, furniture,bedding etc. (this will be further discussed > in another post). > > 3. You should seek medical attention from a qualified expert, but getting out of the environment should be your top priority. > > 4. Persons affected by mold (especially the mycotoxins of mold) tend to severely underestimate the dangers from their exposure. > > 5. They tend to make their move far too late. > > 6. When they are eventually forced to move, they tend to make the mistake of taking their possessions - especially ones made of paper, cardboard, animal fibers (clothing), leather, and similar materials which the mold can readily grow on. This causes cross contamination > of their new environment, and the process repeats itself. > > 7. If you are symptomatic from your mold exposure, get away from it. You can replace the material things, but you may not be able to replace your health! > trees.. I grew up in alabama where the closet thing to leaf piles we had were pine needles and I am wondering if its possible for some people not to be able to tolerate this. > > > > I do have the shoemaker halotype but so do my husband and my daughter and they are not bedridden or anywhere near it.. my daghter does have chronic candida though.. could it be mold causing this? > > > > Sorry so long.. > > > > Thank you!!! > > > > Robin > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 Thank you. Do you all have a source for this test? Any explanation of it. Im a little ticked at the inspector we have been using.. over and over.. did not think to check dust, carpet after the stachy knee wall was exposed for close to a week. He offered a ERMI for 400$ pre sample and we opted for carpet, baseboard dust samples. this is when i called him back about 4 months after the remediation for a third inspection. Sorry to harp on this.. I am still in shock and so not knowing which end is up or what to do.. how to proceed.. Thank you.. Robin --- In , " Jack Thrasher, Ph.D. " <toxicologist1@...> wrote: > > You need to determine the species of molds. The best way to do this by ERMI test of bulk samples. Certain species of Aspergillums and Penicillium along with other mold species are present in the indoor environment. These usually exceed outdoor concentrations. > > Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D. > Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist > www.drthrasher.org > toxicologist1@... > Off: 916-745-4703 > Cell: 575-937-1150 > > > L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC > Trauma Specialist > sandracrawley@... > 916-745-4703 - Off > 775-309-3994 - Cell > > > > > This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered privileged and confidential. The forwarding or redistribution of this message (and any attachments) without my prior written consent is strictly prohibited and may violate privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this message has been served, please destroy the original message contents. If you have received this message in error, please reply immediately to advise the sender of the miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies you have printed. Thank you in advance for your compliance. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 Thanks, so much, Joanne. Ive been looking this over.. such great info.. now more questions... ! Robin > > Robin, > > I was exposed to stachy, aspergillus and penicillium in very large amounts for 11 years at a major university. I left that environment 12 years ago and I'm still kickin'. Here is some initial information from Dr. ph Klein's website. He personally went through this battle as well and has some good insights to offer. I encourage you to go to his website and read some of the other posts there, too. Try to stay positive and know that there are others who've been there and who care. > > Joanne > > http://www.stachy.5u.com/posts.html > > What should I do if I am sick and my house/appartment is found to have stachybotrys and/or other toxic mold(s)? > > 1. Determine if you and/or you family have allergic or toxic symptoms. > > 2. If there is any question of toxicity whatsoever, then you and your family should exit your current enviornment immediately; and, do not bring any of your old possessions, especially including clothing, books, furniture,bedding etc. (this will be further discussed > in another post). > > 3. You should seek medical attention from a qualified expert, but getting out of the environment should be your top priority. > > 4. Persons affected by mold (especially the mycotoxins of mold) tend to severely underestimate the dangers from their exposure. > > 5. They tend to make their move far too late. > > 6. When they are eventually forced to move, they tend to make the mistake of taking their possessions - especially ones made of paper, cardboard, animal fibers (clothing), leather, and similar materials which the mold can readily grow on. This causes cross contamination > of their new environment, and the process repeats itself. > > 7. If you are symptomatic from your mold exposure, get away from it. You can replace the material things, but you may not be able to replace your health! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2010 Report Share Posted August 7, 2010 I agree about no testing. Get the stuff removed from your house whatever ut is & don't be there when they do it. If you can seal opening with foil & foil tape until it's remedied. > > sorry, but I dont see where determining weither it is allergic or toxic has a whole lot to do with anything, I think thats bad advice and chances are if your haveing symptoms your being exposed to some type of toxins regardless, so just get out. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2010 Report Share Posted August 7, 2010 I have read Dr. Kleins web site many times. I do not recognize any of the medications or ingredients that he lists that were used for his treatments. Did he go the natural route? Curious how he is doing now. Diane > > Robin, > > I was exposed to stachy, aspergillus and penicillium in very large amounts for 11 years at a major university. I left that environment 12 years ago and I'm still kickin'. Here is some initial information from Dr. ph Klein's website. He personally went through this battle as well and has some good insights to offer. I encourage you to go to his website and read some of the other posts there, too. Try to stay positive and know that there are others who've been there and who care. > > Joanne > > http://www.stachy.5u.com/posts.html > > What should I do if I am sick and my house/appartment is found to have stachybotrys and/or other toxic mold(s)? > > 1. Determine if you and/or you family have allergic or toxic symptoms. > > 2. If there is any question of toxicity whatsoever, then you and your family should exit your current enviornment immediately; and, do not bring any of your old possessions, especially including clothing, books, furniture,bedding etc. (this will be further discussed > in another post). > > 3. You should seek medical attention from a qualified expert, but getting out of the environment should be your top priority. > > 4. Persons affected by mold (especially the mycotoxins of mold) tend to severely underestimate the dangers from their exposure. > > 5. They tend to make their move far too late. > > 6. When they are eventually forced to move, they tend to make the mistake of taking their possessions - especially ones made of paper, cardboard, animal fibers (clothing), leather, and similar materials which the mold can readily grow on. This causes cross contamination > of their new environment, and the process repeats itself. > > 7. If you are symptomatic from your mold exposure, get away from it. You can replace the material things, but you may not be able to replace your health! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2010 Report Share Posted August 7, 2010 Thank you.. the house has been " remediated " proper protocol except the remediator had this crazy idea that his (best) mold killer would take care of the mold he did find on the knee wall studs and left it open to the air and us for about a week. Air tests are fine, sport dust tests are fine except on carpet coming out of master bath where the shower is.. and it had low amounts of stachy in the sample. Also before we made him come back in with air scrubbers, hepas and hopefully proper protocols to take the kneewall out the living room which is on a diff level of the home than the bathroom showed stachy in air samples at 7 spores per sq meter. The air was scrubbed, hepa-ed after that but there is no telling how much stachy is now on objects in the home.. duct work, etc. We are looking for a town home to move into. Robin > > > > sorry, but I dont see where determining weither it is allergic or toxic has a whole lot to do with anything, I think thats bad advice and chances are if your haveing symptoms your being exposed to some type of toxins regardless, so just get out. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2010 Report Share Posted August 7, 2010 Can you describe what they said was a " proper protocol? " Did they cite a standard or guidance document? Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC (fm my Blackberry) [] Re: Stachy.. help! Thank you.. the house has been " remediated " proper protocol except the remediator had this crazy idea that his (best) mold killer would take care of the mold he did find on the knee wall studs and left it open to the air and us for about a week. Air tests are fine, sport dust tests are fine except on carpet coming out of master bath where the shower is.. and it had low amounts of stachy in the sample. Also before we made him come back in with air scrubbers, hepas and hopefully proper protocols to take the kneewall out the living room which is on a diff level of the home than the bathroom showed stachy in air samples at 7 spores per sq meter. The air was scrubbed, hepa-ed after that but there is no telling how much stachy is now on objects in the home.. duct work, etc. We are looking for a town home to move into. Robin > > > > sorry, but I dont see where determining weither it is allergic or toxic has a whole lot to do with anything, I think thats bad advice and chances are if your haveing symptoms your being exposed to some type of toxins regardless, so just get out. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2010 Report Share Posted August 7, 2010 They were supposed to wear suits and respirators.. and they were suppsoed to have a 2 or 3 barrier system to the area and use a scrubber and hepa filter.. one of which was supposed to be run for three days after but they took it out early because he said so little mold.. I dont see how a knee wall with studs covered with mold accounts for so little other than he saw no mold on the two back wall s of the shower. All inspected well but the knee wall. Im frustrated that the inspector did not think to check for mold in dust or carpet esp in master bedroom and esp when the 7 per sq meter of stachy were found in the air in LR one story down. I have no clue how much was circulating if it was or if just from shoes, clothing equipment, molded items removed (which were supposed to be carefully placed in plastic) when taking things out?? The vents in bathroom were supposedly also blocked and I think the air turned off. hope so. But when studs for knee wall were left standing for 1-2 day with hepa or scrubber and then 4-5 with air going possibly vent no longer sealed in bathroom... ??? How on earth he thought it was ok to leave the molded studs to the knee wall is still blowing my mind. he used some anti fungal that claims to be the best on the market, 20 year guarentee... and inspector said he dug deep the the sample.. just hoping the stuff he put and sealed it somehow and the " few " spores in carpet coming out of master bad (when I called inspector back 4 months later he checked) were a fluke and the spores in LR air were as well but it doesn make sense. There were about 3 months between the inspection and the remediation because the air tested fine and it was the holiday season.. no one suggested stachy could be a problem and they should have known giventhe location and the crack all along the seam of the tile along the edge of the knee wall. So the spores could have leaked out during that time? realizing that the mycotoxins were most likely gassing out. Esp since we stopped using the shower. I wish we had known. I had several shaking attacks during this time and went to the hospital once with chest pressure and breathlessness. I hve no clue how contaminated our house may be with spores. The inspector acts like no big deal.. the scrubber took the spores out of the air in LR and they were only there (since he didnt think to check dust samples or carpet in other rooms we have no clue where they were or not)... and the spores in carpet MBR can be vacuumed with hepa vac. Didnt see a need to inspect ducts ?? Robin > > Can you describe what they said was a " proper protocol? " Did they cite a standard or guidance document? > > Carl Grimes > Healthy Habitats LLC > (fm my Blackberry) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2010 Report Share Posted August 8, 2010 Robin, the only thing that matters is your house is still making you sick. Theres going to be a point in time when you'll have to make a decision on whether to stay there and get sicker or leave leaving everything behind so you can recover. At this very instant I'm sitting at a park pretty much homeless because my g/f's house is making me ill and I can no longer live there. I have no extra clothes and very little money so its more than likely I'll be sleeping in my truck tonight and possibly tomorrow as well. There was another member that went through something very similar to what I'm currently going through, the last I heard she abandoned everything that is near and dear to her (for the second time) and is living in the desert which is something I may end up doing beings I cant find a safe place to live. > > They were supposed to wear suits and respirators.. and they were suppsoed to have a 2 or 3 barrier system to the area and use a scrubber and hepa filter.. one of which was supposed to be run for three days after but they took it out early because he said so little mold.. I dont see how a knee wall with studs covered with mold accounts for so little other than he saw no mold on the two back wall s of the shower. All inspected well but the knee wall. > > Im frustrated that the inspector did not think to check for mold in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 I agree, . I think there should be a simple little law added to insurance codes in all states that states if an insurance claim is involved, a scope of remediation plan must be put into writing and provided to all parties concerned, before a remediation project begins. In a message dated 8/9/2010 6:17:05 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, scottarmour@... writes: These concerns represent what is typical of many remediation projects: the owners and others are left " wondering " what really happened and why. This should be an example as to why we should require a qualified third party (IEP, or project manager, or overseer) to be part of the project from beginning to end, not just a 'mold sampling guy' telling us there's mold, but a quality assurance role, with the expertise and time to check on all various parts and tasks that are underway as they are underway. In my little world here in Northern Ohio and beyond, the mold industry keeps showing me how inept and misinformed they are....and I thought we were making progress several years ago with the recommendations in the S520. good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 These concerns represent what is typical of many remediation projects: the owners and others are left " wondering " what really happened and why. This should be an example as to why we should require a qualified third party (IEP, or project manager, or overseer) to be part of the project from beginning to end, not just a 'mold sampling guy' telling us there's mold, but a quality assurance role, with the expertise and time to check on all various parts and tasks that are underway as they are underway. In my little world here in Northern Ohio and beyond, the mold industry keeps showing me how inept and misinformed they are....and I thought we were making progress several years ago with the recommendations in the S520. good luck. > > > > Can you describe what they said was a " proper protocol? " Did they cite a standard or guidance document? > > > > Carl Grimes > > Healthy Habitats LLC > > (fm my Blackberry) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2010 Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 Sharon, that would be a great first step. It needs a little more, but any little bit is better than what we know have! However, even then, the games that are played get ridiculous. Especially because for so many people the 'mold' issue is invisible, i.e., " no harm, no foul " . By that I mean, if it's not immediately a noticable health impact (e.g., asthma or allergy attack) or measurable damage (e.g., ugly, loss of use), then it must only be " mildew " ! If 50% or more of all insurance projects are viewed this way it makes it difficult to do anything right. Especially when the allmighty dollar is what drives the system. Adjusters want to save, contractors want to bill without anyone seeing their invoice or estimate (except ins adjuster), and of course, trying to get more business by making the adjuster happy -- not the occupant or homeowner. Just like home inspectors, it's not the client who provides referal business, it's the insurance adjuster (or the seller's realtor for inspectors). So the business is not in favor of the real client. And for the cases discussed here on , it's the client with health problems that is ignored! If I am called in to help, I quickly become the 'bad guy'. If the health issue isn't a problem, then I am perceived as holding the job up or inflating the costs; if it's a health problem and I'm fighting to make it the cleanest it can be (for safety!), then I am perceived as being extremist -- after all, the contractor isnt' getting sick! (right!) Oh well. We do the best we can. Go figure. > > I agree, . I think there should be a simple little law added to > insurance codes in all states that states if an insurance claim is involved, a > scope of remediation plan must be put into writing and provided to all > parties concerned, before a remediation project begins. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2010 Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 In my situation the HOA paid for the mold remediation, the mold remediator never told us how serious the problem was so we naturally thought that once the job was completed it would be safe to go back in the condo. A week after the remdiation I was still getting sick so I called the HOA back and told them there was still allot of moisture in the crawl space and I was still getting sick. They sent the maintenance man over a second time and discovered a sewage leak on the opposite end of the crawl space which my inspector and the mold remediater had missed. Once the HOA fixed the sewer pipe on the other side of the foundation they sent the same mold remediation company in to remediate a second time. Two weeks after the condo was remediated I was so sick I had to abandon the condo and leave all my belongings but a few clothes behind. I hired an independent mold remediation company to check the crawl space out. After a thorough investigation they said there was still mold in the crawl space and my insurance sent out an industrial hygienist who took air samples and confirmed the condo still had mold. The condo is being foreclosed on as we speak. I made it perfectly clear to the mortgage company that when that property goes back on the market Im going to do everything legally possible to make the sure the condo is listed as having mold in not only the crawl space but the cavity between the sub floor and the ceiling right above the living room. I want to make sure that what happened to me doesn't happen to someone else. What I have a problem understanding is even though the mold remediation company botched the remediation not once but twice I cant find an attorney who will take my case. > > These concerns represent what is typical of many remediation projects: the owners and others are left " wondering " what really happened and why. This should be an example as to why we should require a qualified third party (IEP, or project manager, or overseer) to be part of the project from beginning to end, not just a 'mold sampling guy' telling us there's mold, but a quality assurance role, with the expertise and time to check on all various parts and tasks that are underway as they are underway. In my little world here in Northern Ohio and beyond, the mold industry keeps showing me how inept and misinformed they are....and I thought we were making progress several years ago with the recommendations in the S520. > good luck. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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