Guest guest Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 Autism is brain damage? What?? And EVERY person on the spectrum also has ADD? Are you kidding me? Too many people are confused by diagnosis which is all too often completely wrong, but given in order to collect insurance money. Autism is autism ranging from " mild " to non-verbal. People and particularly MD's forget that people are INDIVIDUALS, and as such, the respond differently to brain problems. In my and many other researchers opinion, there is simply one continuum that ranges from the simplest ADD/ADHD to the non-verbal " vegetable " state. Every autistic child is also ADD/ADHD, but autism begins with some sot of brain damage. That's the dividing line, and it is literally impossible for any MD or other " doctor " to tell this dividing line and how far along any patient is. You cannot measure the unconscious mind, and even measuring the conscious mind is, at best, guesswork. There is a simple and relatively cheap therapy system that is done at home that dramatically improves the ADD/ADHD portion, and gradually improves the autism portion over more time. This is explained fully in a free lengthy article at: http://drbate.com/content/integrated.shtml -- “Mrs. Krabappel and Principal Skinner were in the closet making babies and I saw one of the babies and the baby looked at me.” --Ralph Wiggum, The Simpsons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 lol To: autism-aspergers Sent: Monday, August 6, 2012 9:34 AM Subject: Re: Re: Mild Aspergers Autism is brain damage? What?? And EVERY person on the spectrum also has ADD? Are you kidding me? Too many people are confused by diagnosis which is all too often completely wrong, but given in order to collect insurance money. Autism is autism ranging from "mild" to non-verbal. People and particularly MD's forget that people are INDIVIDUALS, and as such, the respond differently to brain problems. In my and many other researchers opinion, there is simply one continuum that ranges from the simplest ADD/ADHD to the non-verbal "vegetable" state. Every autistic child is also ADD/ADHD, but autism begins with some sot of brain damage. That's the dividing line, and it is literally impossible for any MD or other "doctor" to tell this dividing line and how far along any patient is. You cannot measure the unconscious mind, and even measuring the conscious mind is, at best, guesswork. There is a simple and relatively cheap therapy system that is done at home that dramatically improves the ADD/ADHD portion, and gradually improves the autism portion over more time. This is explained fully in a free lengthy article at: http://drbate.com/content/integrated.shtml -- “Mrs. Krabappel and Principal Skinner were in the closet making babies and I saw one of the babies and the baby looked at me.†--Ralph Wiggum, The Simpsons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 Oh man...please stop with the "brain damage!" Do you know how many people you alienate when you say that! ADD/ADHD I kinda agree with...but, I won't even look further at your stuff everytime to claim our children are "damaged!"Subject: Re: Mild AspergersTo: autism-aspergers Date: Monday, August 6, 2012, 4:12 AM Too many people are confused by diagnosis which is all too often completely wrong, but given in order to collect insurance money. Autism is autism ranging from "mild" to non-verbal. People and particularly MD's forget that people are INDIVIDUALS, and as such, the respond differently to brain problems. In my and many other researchers opinion, there is simply one continuum that ranges from the simplest ADD/ADHD to the non-verbal "vegetable" state. Every autistic child is also ADD/ADHD, but autism begins with some sot of brain damage. That's the dividing line, and it is literally impossible for any MD or other "doctor" to tell this dividing line and how far along any patient is. You cannot measure the unconscious mind, and even measuring the conscious mind is, at best, guesswork. There is a simple and relatively cheap therapy system that is done at home that dramatically improves the ADD/ADHD portion, and gradually improves the autism portion over more time. This is explained fully in a free lengthy article at: http://drbate.com/content/integrated.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 I don't feel brain damaged, I feel neurologically in overdrive all the time. I grew up with statements like these, you're damaged, you are not as smart as your brothers, you can't do such and such, so why even try, you are lazy, you don't try hard enough, you don't care about anyone else but yourself, you'll never be able to do such and such, so why waste the time trying. Today, I am a certified in-home caregiver, I have my own car, and I'm married (20 years this September), and a mom of two boys. Yes, I do things differently (thank God for GPS), but brain damaged is not something most people would equate with me; quirky? Yes, but not damaged. Thanks for listening,Ashton (Aspie Mom with 2 Autistic sons) Oh man...please stop with the " brain damage! " Do you know how many people you alienate when you say that! ADD/ADHD I kinda agree with...but, I won't even look further at your stuff everytime to claim our children are " damaged! " Subject: Re: Mild AspergersTo: autism-aspergers Date: Monday, August 6, 2012, 4:12 AM Too many people are confused by diagnosis which is all too often completely wrong, but given in order to collect insurance money. Autism is autism ranging from " mild " to non-verbal. People and particularly MD's forget that people are INDIVIDUALS, and as such, the respond differently to brain problems. In my and many other researchers opinion, there is simply one continuum that ranges from the simplest ADD/ADHD to the non-verbal " vegetable " state. Every autistic child is also ADD/ADHD, but autism begins with some sot of brain damage. That's the dividing line, and it is literally impossible for any MD or other " doctor " to tell this dividing line and how far along any patient is. You cannot measure the unconscious mind, and even measuring the conscious mind is, at best, guesswork. There is a simple and relatively cheap therapy system that is done at home that dramatically improves the ADD/ADHD portion, and gradually improves the autism portion over more time. This is explained fully in a free lengthy article at: http://drbate.com/content/integrated.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 Yeah, because there’s nothing “damaged” about Normal™ kids who bully others. That’s just kids being kids. It’s part of growing up! Send the victim to the shrink; she’s bringing it on herself! I don't feel brain damaged, I feel neurologically in overdrive all the time. I grew up with statements like these, you're damaged, you are not as smart as your brothers, you can't do such and such, so why even try, you are lazy, you don't try hard enough, you don't care about anyone else but yourself, you'll never be able to do such and such, so why waste the time trying. Today, I am a certified in-home caregiver, I have my own car, and I'm married (20 years this September), and a mom of two boys. Yes, I do things differently (thank God for GPS), but brain damaged is not something most people would equate with me; quirky? Yes, but not damaged. Thanks for listening, Ashton (Aspie Mom with 2 Autistic sons) Oh man...please stop with the " brain damage! " Do you know how many people you alienate when you say that! ADD/ADHD I kinda agree with...but, I won't even look further at your stuff everytime to claim our children are " damaged! " Subject: Re: Mild Aspergers To: autism-aspergers Date: Monday, August 6, 2012, 4:12 AM Too many people are confused by diagnosis which is all too often completely wrong, but given in order to collect insurance money. Autism is autism ranging from " mild " to non-verbal. People and particularly MD's forget that people are INDIVIDUALS, and as such, the respond differently to brain problems. In my and many other researchers opinion, there is simply one continuum that ranges from the simplest ADD/ADHD to the non-verbal " vegetable " state. Every autistic child is also ADD/ADHD, but autism begins with some sot of brain damage. That's the dividing line, and it is literally impossible for any MD or other " doctor " to tell this dividing line and how far along any patient is. You cannot measure the unconscious mind, and even measuring the conscious mind is, at best, guesswork. There is a simple and relatively cheap therapy system that is done at home that dramatically improves the ADD/ADHD portion, and gradually improves the autism portion over more time. This is explained fully in a free lengthy article at: http://drbate.com/content/integrated.shtml -- “People who say that IQ is meaningless will quickly invoke it when the discussion turns to executing a murderer with an IQ of 64, removing lead paint that lowers a child’s IQ by five points, or the presidential qualifications of W. Bush.” -- Pinker, The Blank Slate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 I get a bad vibe from his web site. I feel he is a snake oil salesman. His website has many "fixes" for just about everything. He promotes his product from helping autism to increasing breast size (no joke go look). He never mentions actual places or universities in many of his statements. I would think a reputable company would mention all places of studies? I think he is feeding off of good people who want and are desperate to help their family. That is just my vibe because the only time he chimes in is to promote his product. To: autism-aspergers Sent: Monday, August 6, 2012 11:43 AM Subject: Re: Re: Mild Aspergers I don't feel brain damaged, I feel neurologically in overdrive all the time. I grew up with statements like these, you're damaged, you are not as smart as your brothers, you can't do such and such, so why even try, you are lazy, you don't try hard enough, you don't care about anyone else but yourself, you'll never be able to do such and such, so why waste the time trying. Today, I am a certified in-home caregiver, I have my own car, and I'm married (20 years this September), and a mom of two boys. Yes, I do things differently (thank God for GPS), but brain damaged is not something most people would equate with me; quirky? Yes, but not damaged. Thanks for listening,Ashton (Aspie Mom with 2 Autistic sons) Oh man...please stop with the "brain damage!" Do you know how many people you alienate when you say that! ADD/ADHD I kinda agree with...but, I won't even look further at your stuff everytime to claim our children are "damaged!" Subject: Re: Mild AspergersTo: autism-aspergers Date: Monday, August 6, 2012, 4:12 AM Too many people are confused by diagnosis which is all too often completely wrong, but given in order to collect insurance money. Autism is autism ranging from "mild" to non-verbal. People and particularly MD's forget that people are INDIVIDUALS, and as such, the respond differently to brain problems. In my and many other researchers opinion, there is simply one continuum that ranges from the simplest ADD/ADHD to the non-verbal "vegetable" state. Every autistic child is also ADD/ADHD, but autism begins with some sot of brain damage. That's the dividing line, and it is literally impossible for any MD or other "doctor" to tell this dividing line and how far along any patient is. You cannot measure the unconscious mind, and even measuring the conscious mind is, at best, guesswork. There is a simple and relatively cheap therapy system that is done at home that dramatically improves the ADD/ADHD portion, and gradually improves the autism portion over more time. This is explained fully in a free lengthy article at: http://drbate.com/content/integrated.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 I know I've said this before, but could you please find another term than 'brain damage'. It doesn't bother me, and I think I know - and probably agree - with what you mean, but using it just stops people listening to anything else you have to say. If you want them to take your other work seriously, find another term. 'Brain impairment' works for me. But then, I do have brain damage from a physical injury in childhood, so I don't take the term as being at all insulting. Despite the brain damage and ADHD I still did well at school and apparently had the highest IQ of anyone going through that school. I would hope they have had a few brighter kids since then (1980), but I know I still held the record when my youngest sister went through 12 years later. So, for all the people reacting badly to 'brain damage' it does not mean in any way that your kid is dumb or worth less than others. It just means that their brain is not the same as others. It is really no more insulting than saying someone has nerve damage or damage to any other part of the body. [moderator] On 6/08/2012 9:12 PM, Phil Bate PhD wrote:  Too many people are confused by diagnosis which is all too often completely wrong, but given in order to collect insurance money.� Autism is autism ranging from "mild" to non-verbal.� People and particularly MD's forget that people are INDIVIDUALS, and as such, the respond differently to brain problems.� In my and many other researchers opinion, there is simply one continuum that ranges from the simplest ADD/ADHD to the non-verbal "vegetable" state.� Every autistic child is also ADD/ADHD, but autism begins with some sot of brain damage.� That's the dividing line, and it is literally impossible for any MD or other "doctor" to tell this dividing line and how far along any patient is.� You cannot measure the unconscious mind, and even measuring the conscious mind is, at best, guesswork.� There is a simple and relatively cheap therapy system that is done at home that dramatically improves the ADD/ADHD portion, and gradually improves the autism portion over more time.� This is explained fully in a free lengthy article at: �http://drbate.com/content/integrated.shtml�� No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5180 - Release Date: 08/05/12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Please note that 'vegetable' was in inverted commas. Dr Bate does display poor diplomacy in his choice of words, but let's not get hung up on words. And Dr Bate, again, can you please choose words that people will respond to rationally rather than emotionally? Actually, it would be good if we all could try and do that. We have enough hassles in life without having to deal with arguments over words. [moderator]. On 7/08/2012 5:46 AM, Iliana Swartz wrote:  Just because a child is non-verbal does NOT mean they are a vegetable. There are many non-verbal autistic children have been proven to be trapped inside. Bonker is one. She is a young teenage girl who is non-verbal but has learned to type conversations and has written beautiful insightful poetry. Tito Mukhopadyay is a teenage boy who is also non-verbal but just like , he writes amazing poetry and can explain many of the things he does and what Autism means to him. Dov Shestack is another. Non-verbal but communicates through typing. These children are not vegetables. They are amazing, inspiring children who are trapped inside their own minds. Making gerneralizations like that is hurtful. "Strange Son" - Portia Iversen "I Am in Here" - Bonker and Virginia Breen > > Too many people are confused by diagnosis which is all too often completely > wrong, but given in order to collect insurance money. Autism is autism > ranging from "mild" to non-verbal. People and particularly MD's forget > that people are INDIVIDUALS, and as such, the respond differently to brain > problems. In my and many other researchers opinion, there is simply one > continuum that ranges from the simplest ADD/ADHD to the non-verbal > "vegetable" state. Every autistic child is also ADD/ADHD, but autism > begins with some sot of brain damage. That's the dividing line, and it is > literally impossible for any MD or other "doctor" to tell this dividing > line and how far along any patient is. You cannot measure the unconscious > mind, and even measuring the conscious mind is, at best, guesswork. > > There is a simple and relatively cheap therapy system that is done at home > that dramatically improves the ADD/ADHD portion, and gradually improves the > autism portion over more time. This is explained fully in a free lengthy > article at: > http://drbate.com/content/integrated.shtml > No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5182 - Release Date: 08/06/12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 I really like hearing about that. My son will be six soon and only says 4 words. He is very active and can follow directions to a point. He also can tell when he has done something wrong(You know the "sorry" face). I usually follow a sequence before leaving the house and my son can do it too! He takes me over to the t.v. and turns it off and then kicthen light, living room light, and to the door. I know there is some hidden intelligence in there but, probably will never know how smart he is. He still has time to learn more words but, actions speak louder in my opinion. To: autism-aspergers Sent: Monday, August 6, 2012 8:20 PM Subject: Re: Re: Mild Aspergers Please note that 'vegetable' was in inverted commas. Dr Bate does display poor diplomacy in his choice of words, but let's not get hung up on words. And Dr Bate, again, can you please choose words that people will respond to rationally rather than emotionally? Actually, it would be good if we all could try and do that. We have enough hassles in life without having to deal with arguments over words. [moderator]. On 7/08/2012 5:46 AM, Iliana Swartz wrote: Just because a child is non-verbal does NOT mean they are a vegetable. There are many non-verbal autistic children have been proven to be trapped inside. Bonker is one. She is a young teenage girl who is non-verbal but has learned to type conversations and has written beautiful insightful poetry. Tito Mukhopadyay is a teenage boy who is also non-verbal but just like , he writes amazing poetry and can explain many of the things he does and what Autism means to him. Dov Shestack is another. Non-verbal but communicates through typing. These children are not vegetables. They are amazing, inspiring children who are trapped inside their own minds. Making gerneralizations like that is hurtful. "Strange Son" - Portia Iversen "I Am in Here" - Bonker and Virginia Breen > > Too many people are confused by diagnosis which is all too often completely > wrong, but given in order to collect insurance money. Autism is autism > ranging from "mild" to non-verbal. People and particularly MD's forget > that people are INDIVIDUALS, and as such, the respond differently to brain > problems. In my and many other researchers opinion, there is simply one > continuum that ranges from the simplest ADD/ADHD to the non-verbal > "vegetable" state. Every autistic child is also ADD/ADHD, but autism > begins with some sot of brain damage. That's the dividing line, and it is > literally impossible for any MD or other "doctor" to tell this dividing > line and how far along any patient is. You cannot measure the unconscious > mind, and even measuring the conscious mind is, at best, guesswork. > > There is a simple and relatively cheap therapy system that is done at home > that dramatically improves the ADD/ADHD portion, and gradually improves the > autism portion over more time. This is explained fully in a free lengthy > article at: > http://drbate.com/content/integrated.shtml > No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com/ Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5182 - Release Date: 08/06/12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 I need to take myself off this board. This guy just upsets me in his approach and treats people so poorly. I know I am not the first to leave due to him and won't be the last. Sad....Sent from my iPhone Well , I've had success with my 4 part therapy with over 500 ADD-Autism kids and some adults, and if you don't believe that there is brain damage (mostly from mercury), then you are sadly out of the loop on current knowledge, and a victim of Big Pharma's propaganda. You are kidding yourself. = Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 We have people leave for all sorts of reasons - I know, because some of them share with me, sometimes at great length and with great passion. We have had people leave because we allow people to post in support of using medication. We have had people leave because we allow people to post in support of 'non-scientific' methods of treating autism. We have had people leave because we don't support enough the idea that mercury is the main - if not sole - cause of autism and most other ills in the world. We have had people leave because we allow people to say mercury causes autism when that idea has (apparently) been scientifically disproved. We have had people leave because we allow people to mention religion (even briefly, in the context of coping with autism). We have had people leave because we don't allow people to talk about religion. Ditto for politics. We have had people leave because we allow people to advise of services and products. We have had people leave because we do not allow people to advise us of products and services that they believe would be helpful. [And I have no intention of changing the policy of denying permission to post money making ventures, no matter how 'fantastic and awesome' they are, even though I realise most of us could use a little more money.] We have had people leave because they don't like something someone said to them, and that person wasn't banned from posting when they complained . We have had people leave because one of their posts was not approved (in one case it was not even sent to the group so it could be approved, but that matters not at all, apparently). When I first started moderating groups - about 20 years ago - I went out of my way to try to keep everyone happy. I soon learnt that the old saying that "you can please all of the people some of the time" is a load of rubbish (being polite). Once you get more than a dozen people in a group it is almost impossible to please all of them with any decision. If you are the owner of the group, you set clear policies saying what the group is about and what you expect in the way of behaviour and stick to them - with changes if necessary. If you're a moderator - especially if the owner goes MIA as so many do - you try to apply the policies as consistently as possible and hope for the best. That way you are guaranteed to offend just about everyone at some time, but at least it is not biased to/against one group. And learn not to take comments personally - except when you are wrong, then you just have to apologise and move on. I am only the moderator for this group. I am not a parent or surrogate for anyone here. I am not responsible for anyone's choices except my own. Unless there is an obvious reason not to do so, I approve all requests to join, and leaving is a personal decision. If this group helps, then I would advise simply blocking certain posters, or deleting posts from certain posters or on certain topics unread. I often wish I had the liberty to do so, but a moderator is obliged to read all posts. If for any reason the group ceases to be helpful, then anyone is free to leave. If people make a contribution while here, and leave without too much fuss, I really can't ask for anything more. I hesitated about posting that response from Dr Bate, but as I have allowed posts that were blunter from others, I decided I needed to be consistent. I also believe that when a personal comment is made, the person deserves the right of reply. Sometimes I edit a reply, and perhaps should have done so with this one. I would remind everyone that personal attacks are not welcome. In the heat of the moment we may be blunter than polite society recommends, but please address issues not people. If someone offends you, say so (politely). Remember that every opinion expressed - no matter how much experience or education is behind it - is only an opinion from one fallible human, not some infallible divine judgement. The one exception is when the owner or moderator says a discussion is finished. To continue after that will result in being moderated. An inadvertent post after that request has been posted will be forgiven (some people reply before reading all their emails from the group), but to continue after being warned won't be. We are all living with greater than normal stress. So we all need to try and not take things too personally, and to think before we post so we don't add to the stress level of others. [moderator] On 7/08/2012 11:14 AM, Lori Yurtin wrote:  I need to take myself off this board.  This guy just upsets me in his approach and treats people so poorly.  I know I am not the first to leave due to him and won't be the last.  Sad.... Sent from my iPhone On Aug 6, 2012, at 5:22 PM, Phil Bate PhD wrote:  Well , I've had success with my 4 part therapy with over 500 ADD-Autism kids and some adults, and if you don't believe that there is brain damage (mostly from mercury), then you are sadly out of the loop on current knowledge, and a victim of Big Pharma's propaganda. You are kidding yourself. = No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5182 - Release Date: 08/06/12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Did you miss when the doctor in England confessed that he made the whole mercury link thing up? And sorry, I’m offended that you refer to me— someone with AS— as brain damaged. Well , I've had success with my 4 part therapy with over 500 ADD-Autism kids and some adults, and if you don't believe that there is brain damage (mostly from mercury), then you are sadly out of the loop on current knowledge, and a victim of Big Pharma's propaganda. You are kidding yourself. -- “A man can be himself only so long as he is alone.”-- Arthur Schopenhauer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 I must go to my computer to delete myself so still here! Lol! You really didn't need to type that long explanation! ;)I don't want to read any negative jabs at people or children with autism and it is totally my personal decision to delete myself as you said. I think you've been a good moderator. Take care all!Sent from my iPhone We have people leave for all sorts of reasons - I know, because some of them share with me, sometimes at great length and with great passion. We have had people leave because we allow people to post in support of using medication. We have had people leave because we allow people to post in support of 'non-scientific' methods of treating autism. We have had people leave because we don't support enough the idea that mercury is the main - if not sole - cause of autism and most other ills in the world. We have had people leave because we allow people to say mercury causes autism when that idea has (apparently) been scientifically disproved. We have had people leave because we allow people to mention religion (even briefly, in the context of coping with autism). We have had people leave because we don't allow people to talk about religion. Ditto for politics. We have had people leave because we allow people to advise of services and products. We have had people leave because we do not allow people to advise us of products and services that they believe would be helpful. [And I have no intention of changing the policy of denying permission to post money making ventures, no matter how 'fantastic and awesome' they are, even though I realise most of us could use a little more money.] We have had people leave because they don't like something someone said to them, and that person wasn't banned from posting when they complained . We have had people leave because one of their posts was not approved (in one case it was not even sent to the group so it could be approved, but that matters not at all, apparently). When I first started moderating groups - about 20 years ago - I went out of my way to try to keep everyone happy. I soon learnt that the old saying that "you can please all of the people some of the time" is a load of rubbish (being polite). Once you get more than a dozen people in a group it is almost impossible to please all of them with any decision. If you are the owner of the group, you set clear policies saying what the group is about and what you expect in the way of behaviour and stick to them - with changes if necessary. If you're a moderator - especially if the owner goes MIA as so many do - you try to apply the policies as consistently as possible and hope for the best. That way you are guaranteed to offend just about everyone at some time, but at least it is not biased to/against one group. And learn not to take comments personally - except when you are wrong, then you just have to apologise and move on. I am only the moderator for this group. I am not a parent or surrogate for anyone here. I am not responsible for anyone's choices except my own. Unless there is an obvious reason not to do so, I approve all requests to join, and leaving is a personal decision. If this group helps, then I would advise simply blocking certain posters, or deleting posts from certain posters or on certain topics unread. I often wish I had the liberty to do so, but a moderator is obliged to read all posts. If for any reason the group ceases to be helpful, then anyone is free to leave. If people make a contribution while here, and leave without too much fuss, I really can't ask for anything more. I hesitated about posting that response from Dr Bate, but as I have allowed posts that were blunter from others, I decided I needed to be consistent. I also believe that when a personal comment is made, the person deserves the right of reply. Sometimes I edit a reply, and perhaps should have done so with this one. I would remind everyone that personal attacks are not welcome. In the heat of the moment we may be blunter than polite society recommends, but please address issues not people. If someone offends you, say so (politely). Remember that every opinion expressed - no matter how much experience or education is behind it - is only an opinion from one fallible human, not some infallible divine judgement. The one exception is when the owner or moderator says a discussion is finished. To continue after that will result in being moderated. An inadvertent post after that request has been posted will be forgiven (some people reply before reading all their emails from the group), but to continue after being warned won't be. We are all living with greater than normal stress. So we all need to try and not take things too personally, and to think before we post so we don't add to the stress level of others. [moderator] On 7/08/2012 11:14 AM, Lori Yurtin wrote: I need to take myself off this board. This guy just upsets me in his approach and treats people so poorly. I know I am not the first to leave due to him and won't be the last. Sad.... Sent from my iPhone On Aug 6, 2012, at 5:22 PM, Phil Bate PhD wrote: Well , I've had success with my 4 part therapy with over 500 ADD-Autism kids and some adults, and if you don't believe that there is brain damage (mostly from mercury), then you are sadly out of the loop on current knowledge, and a victim of Big Pharma's propaganda. You are kidding yourself. = No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5182 - Release Date: 08/06/12 = Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 I haven't checked out everything, but when it comes to ADHD and autism what I have read aligns with a lot of what is being published on ADHD and autism. Many experts in the field see the two as being essentially the same condition. I am not sure that both are always found together, but then telling them apart is not easy. I do find it interesting that no one uses medication to control autism, but always to control other related issues. My psychologist - who is also a neurotherapist - treats aspergers as the social manifestation of ADHD. He has done a lot of work with brain mapping, and sees no real difference in the way that ADHD and AS show up. My psychiatrist - with many decades treating ADHD - also sees AS as simply a social manifestation of the same basic condition. The nutritional/supplements side is almost identical to what my psychologist put me on, and I have seen very similar recommendations from numerous experts. It has helped me a lot, but I still find myself in need of Ritalin, at least in the short term. Both nutrition and neurotherapy take longer to work than medication. I have been for quite a while curious about whether Dr Bate's CDs would work. Both my psychologist/neurotherapist and my psychiatrist have recommended neurotherapy as the best long term solution. With a discounted machine through my neurotherapist I am looking at $5-6,000. That is cheaper than a large number of sessions at over $200 an hour. When I noticed Dr Bate has his CDs at half price for readers of his newsletter, I decided to try it out and I have ordered the ADHD and Autism CD.  The complete cost is less than what I pay on top of insurance for a one hour session with any professional, so no great risk there. I talked to one person on here who had tried his CDs for her child and was told there had been some improvement after a short time. I am giving it six months - given that I am almost 50, have more than mild ADHD and have AS, as well brain damage - to see if it works, so I will give my 'expert' opinion on how effective it is about Easter next year . I will leave it to someone else to evaluate the claims for increasing breast size On 7/08/2012 6:01 AM, and wrote:  I get a bad vibe from his web site. I feel he is a snake oil salesman. His website has many "fixes" for just about everything. He promotes his product from helping autism to increasing breast size (no joke go look). He never mentions actual places or universities in many of his statements. I would think a reputable company would mention all places of studies? I think he is feeding off of good people who want and are desperate to help their family. That is just my vibe because the only time he chimes in is to promote his product. From: Ashton S To: autism-aspergers Sent: Monday, August 6, 2012 11:43 AM Subject: Re: Re: Mild Aspergers  I don't feel brain damaged, I feel neurologically in overdrive all the time. I grew up with statements like these, you're damaged, you are not as smart as your brothers, you can't do such and such, so why even try, you are lazy, you don't try hard enough, you don't care about anyone else but yourself, you'll never be able to do such and such, so why waste the time trying. Today, I am a certified in-home caregiver, I have my own car, and I'm married (20 years this September), and a mom of two boys. Yes, I do things differently (thank God for GPS), but brain damaged is not something most people would equate with me; quirky? Yes, but not damaged. Thanks for listening, Ashton (Aspie Mom with 2 Autistic sons) On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 8:27 AM, Lori Yurtin wrote:  Oh man...please stop with the "brain damage!"  Do you know how many people you alienate when you say that!  ADD/ADHD I kinda agree with...but, I won't even look further at your stuff everytime to claim our children are "damaged!" From: Phil Bate PhD Subject: Re: Mild Aspergers To: autism-aspergers Date: Monday, August 6, 2012, 4:12 AM  Too many people are confused by diagnosis which is all too often completely wrong, but given in order to collect insurance money. Autism is autism ranging from "mild" to non-verbal. People and particularly MD's forget that people are INDIVIDUALS, and as such, the respond differently to brain problems. In my and many other researchers opinion, there is simply one continuum that ranges from the simplest ADD/ADHD to the non-verbal "vegetable" state. Every autistic child is also ADD/ADHD, but autism begins with some sot of brain damage. That's the dividing line, and it is literally impossible for any MD or other "doctor" to tell this dividing line and how far along any patient is. You cannot measure the unconscious mind, and even measuring the conscious mind is, at best, guesswork. There is a simple and relatively cheap therapy system that is done at home that dramatically improves the ADD/ADHD portion, and gradually improves the autism portion over more time. This is explained fully in a free lengthy article at:  http://drbate.com/content/integrated.shtml  No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5182 - Release Date: 08/06/12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 The fact that I am willing to try out Dr Bate's CDs was not meant as an advertisement for, or endorsement of, his products. I am basically in agreement with his view that diet and nutrition, combined with neurotherapy, seems to offer the best long-term results. I do not have a problem with 'big pharma' to the extent that he does. For me, this is just part of the journey of 'research plus trial and error' that began years ago. There has been a lot said about Dr Bate 'pushing' his products here without having any evidence to support his claim. Sometimes the best evidence is found by trying the product. It's a personal decision. I am not telling anyone else they should or shouldn't try it - or any other product or service. But if anyone else is trying it, I would appreciate an email giving your experience - probably off line would be best On 7/08/2012 1:24 PM, Riley wrote:  I haven't checked out everything, but when it comes to ADHD and autism what I have read aligns with a lot of what is being published on ADHD and autism. Many experts in the field see the two as being essentially the same condition. I am not sure that both are always found together, but then telling them apart is not easy. I do find it interesting that no one uses medication to control autism, but always to control other related issues. My psychologist - who is also a neurotherapist - treats aspergers as the social manifestation of ADHD. He has done a lot of work with brain mapping, and sees no real difference in the way that ADHD and AS show up. My psychiatrist - with many decades treating ADHD - also sees AS as simply a social manifestation of the same basic condition. The nutritional/supplements side is almost identical to what my psychologist put me on, and I have seen very similar recommendations from numerous experts. It has helped me a lot, but I still find myself in need of Ritalin, at least in the short term. Both nutrition and neurotherapy take longer to work than medication. I have been for quite a while curious about whether Dr Bate's CDs would work. Both my psychologist/neurotherapist and my psychiatrist have recommended neurotherapy as the best long term solution. With a discounted machine through my neurotherapist I am looking at $5-6,000. That is cheaper than a large number of sessions at over $200 an hour. When I noticed Dr Bate has his CDs at half price for readers of his newsletter, I decided to try it out and I have ordered the ADHD and Autism CD.  The complete cost is less than what I pay on top of insurance for a one hour session with any professional, so no great risk there. I talked to one person on here who had tried his CDs for her child and was told there had been some improvement after a short time. I am giving it six months - given that I am almost 50, have more than mild ADHD and have AS, as well brain damage - to see if it works, so I will give my 'expert' opinion on how effective it is about Easter next year . I will leave it to someone else to evaluate the claims for increasing breast size Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 The explanation was not just for you. I know for every post we get here - on any subject - a number of people are thinking the same thing. On 7/08/2012 12:25 PM, Lori Yurtin wrote:  I must go to my computer to delete myself so still here!  Lol!  You really didn't need to type that long explanation!  I don't want to read any negative jabs at people or children with autism and it is totally my personal decision to delete myself as you said. I think you've been a good moderator. Take care all! Sent from my iPhone On Aug 6, 2012, at 7:00 PM, Riley wrote:  We have people leave for all sorts of reasons - I know, because some of them share with me, sometimes at great length and with great passion. We have had people leave because we allow people to post in support of using medication. We have had people leave because we allow people to post in support of 'non-scientific' methods of treating autism. We have had people leave because we don't support enough the idea that mercury is the main - if not sole - cause of autism and most other ills in the world. We have had people leave because we allow people to say mercury causes autism when that idea has (apparently) been scientifically disproved. We have had people leave because we allow people to mention religion (even briefly, in the context of coping with autism). We have had people leave because we don't allow people to talk about religion. Ditto for politics. We have had people leave because we allow people to advise of services and products. We have had people leave because we do not allow people to advise us of products and services that they believe would be helpful. [And I have no intention of changing the policy of denying permission to post money making ventures, no matter how 'fantastic and awesome' they are, even though I realise most of us could use a little more money.] We have had people leave because they don't like something someone said to them, and that person wasn't banned from posting when they complained . We have had people leave because one of their posts was not approved (in one case it was not even sent to the group so it could be approved, but that matters not at all, apparently). When I first started moderating groups - about 20 years ago - I went out of my way to try to keep everyone happy. I soon learnt that the old saying that "you can please all of the people some of the time" is a load of rubbish (being polite). Once you get more than a dozen people in a group it is almost impossible to please all of them with any decision. If you are the owner of the group, you set clear policies saying what the group is about and what you expect in the way of behaviour and stick to them - with changes if necessary. If you're a moderator - especially if the owner goes MIA as so many do - you try to apply the policies as consistently as possible and hope for the best. That way you are guaranteed to offend just about everyone at some time, but at least it is not biased to/against one group. And learn not to take comments personally - except when you are wrong, then you just have to apologise and move on. I am only the moderator for this group. I am not a parent or surrogate for anyone here. I am not responsible for anyone's choices except my own. Unless there is an obvious reason not to do so, I approve all requests to join, and leaving is a personal decision. If this group helps, then I would advise simply blocking certain posters, or deleting posts from certain posters or on certain topics unread. I often wish I had the liberty to do so, but a moderator is obliged to read all posts. If for any reason the group ceases to be helpful, then anyone is free to leave. If people make a contribution while here, and leave without too much fuss, I really can't ask for anything more. I hesitated about posting that response from Dr Bate, but as I have allowed posts that were blunter from others, I decided I needed to be consistent. I also believe that when a personal comment is made, the person deserves the right of reply. Sometimes I edit a reply, and perhaps should have done so with this one. I would remind everyone that personal attacks are not welcome. In the heat of the moment we may be blunter than polite society recommends, but please address issues not people. If someone offends you, say so (politely). Remember that every opinion expressed - no matter how much experience or education is behind it - is only an opinion from one fallible human, not some infallible divine judgement. The one exception is when the owner or moderator says a discussion is finished. To continue after that will result in being moderated. An inadvertent post after that request has been posted will be forgiven (some people reply before reading all their emails from the group), but to continue after being warned won't be. We are all living with greater than normal stress. So we all need to try and not take things too personally, and to think before we post so we don't add to the stress level of others. 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Guest guest Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Really? There is a lot of really good stuff on this board - I can't believe you would give that up because of one poster. Your mail program should have a delete button at the top. Every time you see a post from a person you don't like, just hit the delete button. I've been a part of this group for a very long time. And over the years there have been many many posts. I don't read every one - especially if it's someone who I don't care for their opinion. So I delete those without reading and go on to the next one. To me, the good posts far outweigh the bad ones. I hope you'll stay, use the delete button more often and take from this board all the good it has to offer! Estevan, SK Canada -- Re: Re: Mild Aspergers I need to take myself off this board. This guy just upsets me in his approach and treats people so poorly. I know I am not the first to leave due to him and won't be the last. Sad....Sent from my iPhone Well , I've had success with my 4 part therapy with over 500 ADD-Autism kids and some adults, and if you don't believe that there is brain damage (mostly from mercury), then you are sadly out of the loop on current knowledge, and a victim of Big Pharma's propaganda. You are kidding yourself. = FREE Animations for your email - by IncrediMail Click Here! â–º Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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