Re: Fwd: [CS-eXchange] Commission rejects chemical sensitivity claim

[Guest guest]

Three things look troubling to me.

First, the qualifications, or lack thereof of the medical " expert, " second, the

lack of patient testing to prove the sensitivity, and third, the ignorance of

putting forth examples of hospitals which have " chemical " or " perfume " bans in

place, which prohibit their use, to protect those who are or who have become

chemically sensitive. Apparently some hospitals have been made to recognize

" chemical sensitivity " among staff and patients.

But, one must look at the enormous power and information bank from

" agribusiness " which is running the show here.

>

> notice the claim of MCS! when will people realize that insisting it be called

MCS will red flag this and Daubert will kill it

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Friday, April 9, 2010

>

> Commission rejects chemical sensitivity claim

>

> The Comission affirms a denial of a chemical sensitivity claim, afteraffirming

a permanent total award last year with similar allegations.

> Claimant became short of breath, dizzy, and nauseous after working inher

employer’s greenhouses, and states spraying plants periodicallyover 2 ½ years

caused multiple chemical sensitivity.. She stated sheeven had an " attack " during

an IME and couldn’t tolerate her ownexpert’s cologne.

> Claimant treated for several years with Dr.Sultan for chemical sensitivity

since the 1998 exposure and uses a " detox " cocktail. Dr. Sultan advised her to

change jobs and work onlyin a " clean " environment. He did not testify in her

claim for permanentand total disability, and the employer objected to another

experttestifying about Dr. Sultan’s causation opinions. Claimant states sheis

a recluse and rid her home of chemical products and changed her dietdue to food

sensitivities. Dr. Feinberg, a pain management expertretained by her attorney,

concluded that claimant was unemployable.

> TheCommission affirmed a denial of the claim. Claimant and her expert werenot

found to be credible. Claimant described inconsistent symptoms. Sheprovided no

medical support for her claims of fibromyalgia and latexallergy (including

multiple normal RAST tests). Claimant’s expert wasfound less qualified. He did

not fully consider her entire history thatincluded prior complaints of headache,

nausea and fatigue and asthmaDr. Belz, the employer’s expert, indicated that

the diagnosis ofchemical sensitivity is not generally recognized in the

medicalcommunity.

> The case demonstrates the importance of an expert’squalifications relative

to other experts. No explanation is indicatedwhy Dr. Sultan, as a treating

expert, did not testify.

> TheCommission affirmed a permanent and total disability award last year ina

similar chemical sensitivity case. Lewry v City of Kansas City,involved another

patient of Dr. Sultan who alleged symptoms arisingfrom exposure to pesticides

and unknown chemicals. In Lewry, claimantreported tremors and described

irregular use of protective gear. Theadministrative law judge in Lewry, by

contrast, criticized theemployer’s expert, Dr. Parmet, as less credible

because he had the " pre-conceived " notion that multiple chemical sensitivity did

not existas a " real " diagnosis.

> 　

> www.labor.mo.gov/LIRC/Forms/WC_Decisions/WCDEC10/ManionC.pdf

> www.labor.mo.gov/LIRC/Forms/WC_Decisions/WCDEC09/LewryB.pdf

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

i am curious since when has there been a tewst that confirms MCS? As proving

you have allergic responses to chemicals in not MCS, asthma can be triggered by

respiratory chmes but that falls under a resp[iratory diagnosis, skin issues can

possibly be under a mast cell disorder.

SO what exactly aside from neuro-cognitve testing does confirm MCS that proves

its validity?

The dr by not showing up makes it appear that he can't substantiate his findings

under cross examination and therefore refused to testify.

the term chemcial sensititivyt is not the same as MCS.

just becasue a hospital/business institutes a ban/restriction does not hold up

in court. The recent fining of Detroit has set the legal preceent that can

POSSIBLY help. It is NOT a concrete win for MCS in any way. It was a ruling

based on ADA accommdiation violation.

There are no board certified doctors in environmental medicine who EVER use the

term MCS! So why are patients being idiots in insisting on having a diagnosis

that is controversial, still associated with psych issues, kiss of death in a

court room boggles my mind. Are they so intent on shooting themselves in the

foot over this term?

[] Re: Fwd: [CS-eXchange] Commission rejects chemical

sensitivity claim

Three things look troubling to me.

First, the qualifications, or lack thereof of the medical " expert, " second, the

lack of patient testing to prove the sensitivity, and third, the ignorance of

putting forth examples of hospitals which have " chemical " or " perfume " bans in

place, which prohibit their use, to protect those who are or who have become

chemically sensitive. Apparently some hospitals have been made to recognize

" chemical sensitivity " among staff and patients.

But, one must look at the enormous power and information bank from

" agribusiness " which is running the show here.

>

> notice the claim of MCS! when will people realize that insisting it be called

MCS will red flag this and Daubert will kill it

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have several letters from EM Dr  stating I have MCS..  In thoose words.  In

those words SS approaved my disability based on

 

 his staements, you just have to prove it is disabling to you.  Does it impair

your breathing, not allow you to go places, puts you in bed, life threatning

reactions, crippling pain, loss if memory or cognition, many other things

associatd with MCS which are disabling.  Breathing is one of lives major

activities and when you cannot go anywhere because you cannot breathe I would

say that is a disability caused by reactions by MCS.  Hope this

helps.....................

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: " ntefusa@... " <ntefusa@...>

Sent: Sun, April 11, 2010 10:40:06 PM

Subject: Re: [] Re: Fwd: [CS-eXchange] Commission rejects chemical

sensitivity claim

 

i am curious since when has there been a tewst that confirms MCS? As proving you

have allergic responses to chemicals in not MCS, asthma can be triggered by

respiratory chmes but that falls under a resp[iratory diagnosis, skin issues can

possibly be under a mast cell disorder.

SO what exactly aside from neuro-cognitve testing does confirm MCS that proves

its validity?

The dr by not showing up makes it appear that he can't substantiate his findings

under cross examination and

[Guest guest]

If the Dr really has experince with this then here are some Biomarkers :

http://www.mcsrr.org/resources/biomarkers.html

 

 It should be called Multiple Chemical Poisoning, cause it just is not just a

sensitivity. 

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: " ntefusa@... " <ntefusa@...>

Sent: Sun, April 11, 2010 10:40:06 PM

Subject: Re: [] Re: Fwd: [CS-eXchange] Commission rejects chemical

sensitivity claim

 

i am curious since when has there been a tewst that confirms MCS? As proving you

have allergic responses to chemicals in not MCS, asthma can be triggered by

respiratory chmes but that falls under a resp[iratory diagnosis, skin issues can

possibly be under a mast cell disorder.

SO what exactly aside from neuro-cognitve testing does confirm MCS that proves

its validity?

The dr by not showing up makes it appear that he can't substantiate his findings

under cross examination and therefore refused to testify.

the term chemcial sensititivyt is not the same as MCS.

just becasue a hospital/business institutes a ban/restriction does not hold up

in court. The recent

[Guest guest]

There are some essential problems here. First the Federal Rule of Evidence 702

you can look up on wikipedia or some of the legal sites which are free - I have

sent it here before, concerning Daubert which is a federal rule, adopted by many

states, which is a more liberal standard than Frye. Some states still use Frye

if it is a state case. The Federal Rule is Daubert. The history of the rule is

interesting. Frye has to be " generally accepted " in the medical community,

meaning the docs were " onboard " with the medical evidence standard. Daubert can

" open the door " for newer research as long as it meets the standard of the

1)principles of science, 2)testing, 3)publication, 4)peer review, and

5)potential for error.

It would make sense that if you were sick from an " exposure " it is safer to stay

within the realm of " accepted diagnosis, " until MCS or chemical sensitivity

which can be proven. I have little knowledge of the testing done, besides

accepted bloodwork or biopsies, and that includes neuro cognitive testing. I do

believe that mold exposures and sickness from mold can " set you up " to be

sensitive to different " chemically laden " buildings. For example, I cannot stay

very long in a computer store with a lot of electronics off-gassing. I have to

" get in and get out. " No lollygagging around looking at all the new toys...Am I

chemically sensitive? Probably. Can I prove it yet in court? Probably not. I

just stay away from places that make me " react. "

That said, if it were a Workers Comp. situation, and not a trial, usually the

doctor sends a report and is not present. You can only win on points where your

lawyer can make the argument for you based on what he or she has in his or her

hands for supporting documentation.

It may not hold up in court, but besides your " hard medical testing evidence "

you can always present " policy " standards which have evolved which recognize,

not as your " core " but as " support " for your position. I have no knowledge as

to whether Board Certified docs use the term MCS. I personally find the term

" vague. " I would favor a term which indicates " reactivity " to chemicals,

analagous to being " allergic " which causes you to " react " physically to a

" stimulus " that your body finds " irritating " and causes " findable and

measurable " antibodies to be generated which could be presented as evidence of

injury. It seems more " precise " to me. JMHO.

(not legal advice)

>

> i am curious since when has there been a tewst that confirms MCS? As proving

you have allergic responses to chemicals in not MCS, asthma can be triggered by

respiratory chmes but that falls under a resp[iratory diagnosis, skin issues can

possibly be under a mast cell disorder.

>

> SO what exactly aside from neuro-cognitve testing does confirm MCS that proves

its validity?

>

> The dr by not showing up makes it appear that he can't substantiate his

findings under cross examination and therefore refused to testify.

>

> the term chemcial sensititivyt is not the same as MCS.

>

> just becasue a hospital/business institutes a ban/restriction does not hold up

in court. The recent fining of Detroit

[Guest guest]

I am familiar w/daubert kelly frye and the differences.

the fact remains, chemical injury is not a 'condition' that is readily

definable, aside from more of subjective vs objective findings, thats where the

entire herein lies.

Lab work showing you have an 'allergic' response can be argued, that it can be

'alleviated' with 'shots to mitigate the reactivity.

Neuro-cognitive testing is no where near the same level as labs, mri's etc.

Doctors do appear in w/comp hearings as the 'judge' does have a right to 'ask'

futher questions regarding caustion etc.

i do know for a fact EI docs donot use MCS as they are fully appraised of the

kiss of death in litigation.

Workers comp like SS are on a case by case basis. Whereas a 'true' litigant

situation is more on experts testimony, med reports etc.

The face, nevertheless remains, MCS is still controverisal and those who seek

that diagnosis becasue they want to be 'recongized' for that, shoot themselves

in the foot, as I mentioned in the previous email.

It is that vagueness that is the entire problem/ssue with MCS. irritating can

be laterally applied to respiratory,. Not everyone will 'react' with an

'antibody' type response, therefore, precluding using that to explain in an

'hearing' etc.

Too many different responses to becoming chemically injured, precludes a 'test'

that would 'confirm' the issue. How do you test for someone who literally loses

muscle tone and collapses over someone who appears drunk from exposures?

So far the ONLY thing that i know of that has any grounding for chemcial injury

has to do with the NIH definition of neuro-toxicty. Simple to the point, toxins

hitting the CNS. No argument, med science acknowledges, government recognizes

it.

[] Re: Fwd: [CS-eXchange] Commission rejects chemical

sensitivity claim

There are some essential problems here. First the Federal Rule of Evidence 702

you can look up on wikipedia or some of the legal sites which are free - I have

sent it here before, concerning Daubert which is a federal rule, adopted by many

states, which is a more liberal standard than Frye. Some states still use Frye

if it is a state case. The Federal Rule is Daubert. The history of the rule is

interesting. Frye has to be " generally accepted " in the medical community,

meaning the docs were " onboard " with the medical evidence standard. Daubert can

" open the door " for newer research as long as it meets the standard of the

1)principles of science, 2)testing, 3)publication, 4)peer review, and

5)potential for error.

It would make sense that if you were sick from an " exposure " it is safer to stay

within the realm of " accepted diagnosis, " until MCS or chemical sensitivity

which can be proven. I have little knowledge of the testing done, besides

accepted bloodwork or biopsies, and that includes neuro cognitive testing. I do

believe that mold exposures and sickness from mold can " set you up " to be

sensitive to different " chemically laden " buildings. For example, I cannot stay

very long in a computer store with a lot of electronics off-gassing. I have to

" get in and get out. " No lollygagging around looking at all the new toys...Am I

chemically sensitive? Probably. Can I prove it yet in court? Probably not. I

just stay away from places that make me " react. "

That said, if it were a Workers Comp. situation, and not a trial, usually the

doctor sends a report and is not present. You can only win on points where your

lawyer can make the argument for you based on what he or she has in his or her

hands for supporting documentation.

It may not hold up in court, but besides your " hard medical testing evidence "

you can always present " policy " standards which have evolved which recognize,

not as your " core " but as " support " for your position. I have no knowledge as

to whether Board Certified docs use the term MCS. I personally find the term

" vague. " I would favor a term which indicates " reactivity " to chemicals,

analagous to being " allergic " which causes you to " react " physically to a

" stimulus " that your body finds " irritating " and causes " findable and

measurable " antibodies to be generated which could be presented as evidence of

injury. It seems more " precise " to me. JMHO.

(not legal advice)

[Guest guest]

In my particular case. There was no trial.  I did not have to go before

anyone.  All I proved were the disabling effects on my body which came from the

MCS.  There was no blood work for it.  It gave me severe respiratory reactions

among other things.  I just had to prove it was disabiling to me.  I did not

have an attorney,  I did not go before a judge or anything.  That was my

case.  Document everytime you go to a Dr the problems (severe disabling) that

you are having.  MCS is recognized by SS as MCS and it is to them you need to

prove such. 

If you case is a WC then find someone who is knowledgable with the condition. 

If they know nothing abot it, they cannot do you any good.  MHO. The

VA  recognizes MCS as well.

It is my understanding that 2 species of mold cause MCS.  I could be wrong. 

Since molds release VOC's then it would make sense to me anyway that you can

become sensitive to other chemicals as well.   Every case is different.  If

all you have is MCS and it is disabling to you, you have to prove it based on

that so to say not to do so would not be prudent for that one individual. 

Here are some questions and answers that maybe helpful to some.  I hope. 

http://www.walkuplaw.com/faqs.html

 

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: ginloi <ginloi@...>

Sent: Mon, April 12, 2010 7:09:02 AM

Subject: [] Re: Fwd: [CS-eXchange] Commission rejects chemical

sensitivity claim

 

There are some essential problems here. First the Federal Rule of Evidence 702

you can look up on wikipedia or some of the legal sites which are free - I have

sent it here before, concerning Daubert which is a federal rule, adopted by many

states, which is a more liberal standard than Frye. Some states still use Frye

if it is a state case. The Federal Rule is Daubert. The history of the rule is

interesting. Frye has to be " generally accepted " in the medical community,

meaning the docs were " onboard " with the medical evidence standard. Daubert can

" open the door " for newer research as long as it meets the standard of the

1)principles of science, 2)testing, 3)publication, 4)peer review, and

5)potential for error.

It would

[Guest guest]

I was diagnosed with MCS, I prefer that name for this to be

total allergic syndrome. and haveing been diagnosed with it by the

way of allergy testing and Ige,Igg, 1-4 levels, basicly does show the systemic

involvement and anaphlaxis type syndromes. this is a allergic syndrome and you

can have self toxicity with this.

theres no doubt in my mind that it's made much worse

because of the neuro-toxicity syndrome and CNS damage.

I fell pretty strongly that with the CNS damage, allergy shots are worthless.

with the CNS damage and allergies, your no doubt going to suffer from histamine

intolerance to top it off cause with the CNS damage

shit just aint gonna work like it's supposed to.

I also believe you may have even more of a inflamation issue too.

so, with the CNS damage and the neuro toxicity syndrome, allergies become more

disabling than a typical allergy wood be.

MCS basicly was looked at and thought of as a allergic syndrome for

along time because of the failure to reconize that we were being poisoned.

reconizing the poisonings should not leave the allergy syndrome in the dust,

because it is real and it does add considerabily

to the whole picture of being ill.

so really, for those of us dealing with this, it would be best if the MCS/total

allergic syndrome, is realized as what it is.

I do agree that the term MCS needs to be trashed. it mixes both syndromes

together, and obviously not all have both.

I believe Dr. Rea is right, because I got my allergies because of my exposure. I

was exposed in two different homes, one that did not cause a allergy syndrome,

one that did.

allergies can be caused by exposure to high amounts of that allergen.

a severely mold infested, possably a long time infestation or a

severly water damaged home/building can cause allergies with a high dose

exposure.

some toxins are also known to be allergenic as well as toxic.

I've went through all this crap, denieing the allergy syndrome

because the toxicity syndrome needed reconized.

but I'm telling you now, haveing the allergies on top of everything else is just

a extra kick in the ass and it needs to be reconized to.

it shouldn't be one or the other cause sometimes it's not one or the other,it's

both.

and as far as the lungs go, that should be called reactive lung disease cause

thats what it is. also made worse by both the toxicity syndrome and the allergy

syndrome. I know for a fact that with my lungs, sometimes breathing outdoors

mold can cause a lung infection or inflamation that sometimes ends up going to

my brain, and I'm not talking about up the nose brain fog/seizure type

responces,

I'm talking a severe migrane up the back of the neck,hot raw spots on the head,

in bed, slurred speech,fluid comeing out my ears and nose. this can happen from

both lung inflamation/infection and stomach/bowel inflamation/infection, geez,I

know now whats coming when my bowel become inflamed, or my lungs fell like they

are on fire.

same as with the stomach and bowels, also made worse by both syndromes

.. theres alot of things that can happen here, we need it all reconized.

>

> I am familiar w/daubert kelly frye and the differences.

>

> the fact remains, chemical injury is not a 'condition' that is readily

definable, aside from more of subjective vs objective findings, thats where the

entire herein lies.

>

> Lab work showing you have an 'allergic' response can be argued, that it can be

'alleviated' with 'shots to mitigate the reactivity.

>

> Neuro-cognitive testing is no where near the same level as labs, mri's etc.

Doctors do appear in w/comp hearings as the 'judge' does have a right to 'ask'

futher questions regarding caustion etc.

>

> i do know for a fact EI docs donot use MCS as they are fully appraised of the

kiss of death in litigation.

>

> Workers comp like SS are on a case by case basis. Whereas a 'true' litigant

situation is more on experts testimony, med reports etc.

>

> The face, nevertheless remains, MCS is still controverisal and those who seek

that diagnosis becasue they want to be 'recongized' for that, shoot themselves

in the foot, as I mentioned in the previous email.

>

> It is that vagueness that is the entire problem/ssue with MCS. irritating can

be laterally applied to respiratory,. Not everyone will 'react' with an

'antibody' type response, therefore, precluding using that to explain in an

'hearing' etc.

>

> Too many different responses to becoming chemically injured, precludes a

'test' that would 'confirm' the issue. How do you test for someone who literally

loses muscle tone and collapses over someone who appears drunk from exposures?

>

> So far the ONLY thing that i know of that has any grounding for chemcial

injury has to do with the NIH definition of neuro-toxicty. Simple to the point,

toxins hitting the CNS. No argument, med science acknowledges, government

recognizes it.

[Guest guest]

You are correct. And the VA recognizes a lot of stuff. There may not be

bloodwork for it, and I wonder if you know what the molds are that cause MCS.

Is one aspergillus fumigatus?

When I had my Workers' Comp case I was in law school, and I took Workers Comp

that semester and read every case I could get my hands on, which concerned

" exposure " which is what we have. An " exposure " and those cases go back to the

turn of the century with anthrax that farmers were exposed to if

anthrax-stricken cows were buried too close to the ground level.

I had to " teach my lawyer " who did not know a lot about mold. Lawyers are

trained in law. They need all the information they can get to help the client,

even though they can apply " exposure " cases which are " precedents. "

Every state is different. There is no trial, per se, only a more informal

" hearing " where both sides are heard and the rules of evidence are " relaxed. "

Of course the employer denies everything, and you have to refute and stand your

ground with medical evidence and workplace testing evidence if you have it. If

you don't, and were heathy at one point in time, then all of a sudden, you are

sick, the judge can see the differences in your personal " timeline " - the point

where you were " healthy " and the point were your health, took a " nosedive. "

Workers Comp is to eliminate the need to sue your employer and deplete your life

savings.

I was looking for something more specific than antibodies, maybe bloodgasses or

something else which might show something chemical rather than " biologicals. "

What happens to me in an electronics store is that I get " vertigo, " and am not

steady on my feet, needing to hold on, and " lean on " the store carriage, very

thirsty and feel faint, until I get outdoors in the fresh (maybe) air. It

happens in " big box " stores as well, when I go into the electronics area or the

detergent aisle of the supermarket. I get what I need and get out as soon as I

can. One box of detergent product doesn't bother me as long as my face is not

near it, and I have it bagged separately. It is the whole " long aisle " that

gets me dizzy.

>

> In my particular case. There was no trial.  I did not have to go before

anyone.  All I proved were the disabling effects on my body which came from the

MCS.  There was no blood work for it.  It gave me severe respiratory reactions

among other things.  I just had to prove it was disabiling to me.  I did not

have an attorney,  I did not go before a judge or anything.  That was my

case.  Document everytime you go to a Dr the problems (severe disabling) that

you are having.  MCS is recognized by SS as MCS and it is to them you need to

prove such. 

>

> If you case is a WC then find someone who is knowledgable with the

condition.  If they know nothing abot it, they cannot do you any good.  MHO.

The VA  recognizes MCS as well.

>

> It is my understanding that 2 species of mold cause MCS.  I could be wrong. 

Since molds release VOC's then it would make sense to me anyway that you can

become sensitive to other chemicals as well.   Every case is different.  If

all you have is MCS and it is disabling to you, you have to prove it based on

that so to say not to do so would not be prudent for that one individual. 

>

> Here are some questions and answers that maybe helpful to some.  I hope. 

>

> http://www.walkuplaw.com/faqs.html

>

>  

>

> God Bless !!

> dragonflymcs

> Mayleen

>

>

[Guest guest]

But it is not an allergy and would make it more confusing.  It does not even

follow the same pathway.  There also exist non allergic anaphalaxsis.  There

should be in my opnion 2 sepaerate disease that dscribe what you are speaking

of.  MCS and Total Allergy Syndrome however shoukd not be the same thing. 

The biggest problem with MCS is the poisoning.  No allergy shot is going to do

anything for that. 

I agree we need it all recognized. 

My legs collapse on exposue, I believe that is where the neuro/disease comes

into play.  It is complicated.

You take care............. 

 

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: osisposis <jeaninem660@...>

Sent: Tue, April 13, 2010 1:34:45 AM

Subject: [] Re: Fwd: [CS-eXchange] Commission rejects chemical

sensitivity claim

 

I was diagnosed with MCS, I prefer that name for this to be

total allergic syndrome. and haveing been diagnosed with it by the

way of allergy testing and Ige,Igg, 1-4 levels, basicly does show the systemic

involvement and anaphlaxis type syndromes. this is a allergic syndrome and you

can have self toxicity with this.

theres no doubt in my mind that it's made much worse

because of the neuro-toxicity syndrome and CNS damage.

I fell pretty strongly that with the CNS damage, allergy shots are worthless.

with the CNS damage and allergies, your no doubt going to suffer from histamine

intolerance to top it off cause with the CNS damage

shit just aint gonna work like it's supposed to.

I also believe you may have even more of a inflamation issue too.

so, with the CNS damage and the neuro toxicity syndrome, allergies become more

disabling than a typical allergy wood be.

MCS basicly was looked at and thought of as a allergic syndrome for

along time because of the failure to reconize that we were being poisoned.

reconizing the poisonings should not leave the allergy syndrome in the dust,

because it is real and it does add considerabily

to the whole picture of being ill.

so really, for those of us dealing with this, it would be best if the MCS/total

allergic syndrome, is realized as what it is.

I do agree that the term MCS needs to be trashed. it mixes both syndromes

together, and obviously not all have both.

I believe Dr. Rea is right, because I got my allergies because of my exposure. I

was exposed in two different homes, one that did not cause a allergy syndrome,

one that did.

allergies can be caused by exposure to high amounts of that allergen.

a severely mold infested, possably a long time infestation or a

severly water damaged home/building can cause allergies with a high dose

exposure.

some toxins are also known to be allergenic as well as toxic.

I've went through all this crap, denieing the allergy syndrome

because the toxicity syndrome needed reconized.

but I'm telling you now, haveing the allergies on top of everything else is just

a extra kick in the ass and it needs to be reconized to.

it shouldn't be one or the other cause sometimes it's not one or the other,it's

both.

and as far as the lungs go, that should be called reactive lung disease cause

thats what it is. also made worse by both the toxicity syndrome and the allergy

syndrome. I know for a fact that with my lungs, sometimes breathing outdoors

mold can cause a lung infection or inflamation that sometimes ends up going to

my brain, and I'm not talking about up the nose brain fog/seizure type

responces,

I'm talking a severe migrane up the back of the neck,hot raw spots on the head,

in bed, slurred speech,fluid comeing out my ears and nose. this can happen from

both lung inflamation/ infection and stomach/bowel inflamation/ infection,

geez,I know now whats coming when my bowel become inflamed, or my lungs fell

like they are on fire.

same as with the stomach and bowels, also made worse by both syndromes

.. theres alot of things that can happen here, we need it all reconized.

[Guest guest]

EXACTLY Mayleen, it is NOT an allergic response. It is a systemic assault that

cannot be proven with lab draws etc.

In almost ALL of the cases there is neurologival dysfunctioning and thats why we

recomend people get TESTED and treated for most of the problems under toxic

encephalopathy.

The asthma is intermittent contignent pon exposure and the metholine challenge

will not usually show a true dx of sthma. Then you have the dermatological

symtpoms from mast cell dyfunctions also.

One term/dx can never be appropirate.

To get a win in court you have to prove it and also have the dx accepted by

mainstream medicine. Thats where MCS is the kiss if death as we refer to it as.

Angel

Re: [] Re: Fwd: [CS-eXchange] Commission rejects chemical

sensitivity claim

But it is not an allergy and would make it more confusing. It does not even

follow the same pathway. There also exist non allergic anaphalaxsis. There

should be in my opnion 2 sepaerate disease that dscribe what you are speaking

of. MCS and Total Allergy Syndrome however shoukd not be the same thing.

The biggest problem with MCS is the poisoning. No allergy shot is going to do

anything for that.

I agree we need it all recognized.

My legs collapse on exposue, I believe that is where the neuro/disease comes

into play. It is complicated.

You take care.............

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

[Guest guest]

I get the same reactions, as you do. Many times, a ten second exposure to any

new electronics, as I slide my purchase out of it's box, is enough to give me

the reaction that you describe. I never had this reaction to chemicals, until my

first massive exposure to mold. I am positive that my body's internal

biochemical pathway, with mold reactions and with chenical reactions, are

following the same internal mechanism. But, proving it, medically, or

scientifically, remains an impossible task, at this point in time.

Any mold that your body reacts to, has the potential to sensitize you to

chemical fumes reactions. To the best of my knowledge, there are no blood gas

markers for " toxic " mold exposure, or chemical fumes exposure, for people like

us, who are made sick by infinitessimal amounts of chemical exposure. I have

read scientific studies of blood gas changes due to massive chemical exposures,

where everyone in a room gets sick from the exposure. But,in our case, where we

are the only one in the room who gets sick, while everyone else in the room

thinks we are crazy, there are no blood tests that will confirm we are NOT

crazy. And, even if there were such blood tests, the chemical alterations of our

blood gasses would be corrected, within ten minutes of our leaving the

offending-chemical environment, as our body struggles to attain homeostasis.

Anyone offering blood tests, claiming otherwise, is only talking about " allergy "

blood tests, or tests indicating that you have a mold growth, or infestation,

taking place, within the cells of your body. As I have had allergies for 58

years, I can tell you that what we are talking about, on this health board, IS

NOT allergies.

I suggest that you switch from " boxed " powder detergent, to liquid

fragrance-free and dye-free detergent. It worked for me. Also, don't " walk down

the aisle " any more, as you are " married " to your chemical sensitivity. Most

supermarket employees would gladly take that walk, for you, once you explain

your problem to them. If not, give a kid,tall enough to reach the bottle, 50

cents to take the walk for you.

Joe

.....................................

>

> You are correct. And the VA recognizes a lot of stuff. There may not be

bloodwork for it, and I wonder if you know what the molds are that cause MCS.

Is one aspergillus fumigatus?

>

> I was looking for something more specific than antibodies, maybe bloodgasses

or something else which might show something chemical rather than " biologicals. "

>

> What happens to me in an electronics store is that I get " vertigo, " and am not

steady on my feet, needing to hold on, and " lean on " the store carriage, very

thirsty and feel faint, until I get outdoors in the fresh (maybe) air. It

happens in " big box " stores as well, when I go into the electronics area or the

detergent aisle of the supermarket. I get what I need and get out as soon as I

can. One box of detergent product doesn't bother me as long as my face is not

near it, and I have it bagged separately. It is the whole " long aisle " that

gets me dizzy.

[Guest guest]

thats is what I just said, MCS basically lumps it all together and it shouldn't

be. the term MCS should be trashed!!!!!

theres a allergy syndrome and a toxicity syndrome.

some have both, others dont.

and what do you mean, they dont even follow the same pathways?

actually they do. actually mycotoxins follow the exact same pathway as a

allergen does. it is how they are reconized,or not reconized that get us in

trouble.

actually it is the MCS that doesn't fit the poisoning.

thats is toxicity! it is not a sensitivity reaction, sensitivity is a allergy!

toxicity is a intolerance reaction! intolerance to chemicals/poisons!

the term MCS/mutiple chemical sensitivy was started to explain a reaction base

on allergies to chemicals, not intolerances.

BECAUSE THE POISONING WAS NOT RECONIZED!

sure, it's the CNS damage that basically causes the reaction to your brain and

body with the CNS damage caused by toxin exposure.

who say's that someone with allergies and autoimmunity does not

also suffer CNS damage from their own body toxins?

I think there might be some pretty miserable people out there with allergies and

autoimmunity. (I dont think anyone knows for sure if self attacking self,with

autoimmunity, vs. toxins we breath or even eat have the same power of causeing

organ damage, only that it's possable for both to do so.)

I do think that both sensitivy and intolerance can produce pretty much the same

or close to the same effects depending

largely on extent or organ damage.

who says that when someone with the CNS damage has a assult, the responce is not

close to or exactly the samwe as someone who has never been exposed but has some

genitics that cause their immune system to respond in much the same way as ours

do, like when stung by a bee for example, like when they have allergies and

autoimmunity.

just maybe their genitic disfunctions were gotton in the womb because of a

chemical+++ exposure of some kind that the mother suffered.

autoimmunity and a suppressed immune system are not the same thing,

immunecompromized and autoimmunity are not the same thing.

immune system disfunctions or receptor/transmitter function.

maybe they both can cause the same results in many ways.

just like you can have both allergies and intolerances to allergens and toxins.

this is about brain/body reaction, regardless of what the reaction is too.

and there are allergy sufferers who allergy shots dont help also.

if allergy shots really helped them, they wouldn't have to keep doing it. their

immune systems are disfunctional,

I really dont think it's the immune system itself that is disfunctional with

toxicity/CNS damage but the CNS damage is still not allowing the immune system

functions to function.

not everyone here has autoimmunity.

if by some great fortune we can have the CNS damage fixed, thats not going to

help those with autoimmity and allergies.

and with autoimmunity, you own body toxins are still going to be attacking you.

I do have both, luckily I can say that my allergy responce is not near as bad as

my toxic responce, but it's no picnic either.

oh, so let's just ignore one aspect of this illness because it's to confuseing.

isn't that what they said????????????????????????

>

> But it is not an allergy and would make it more confusing.  It does not even

follow the same pathway.  There also exist non allergic anaphalaxsis.  There

should be in my opnion 2 sepaerate disease that dscribe what you are speaking

of.  MCS and Total Allergy Syndrome however shoukd not be the same thing. 

>

> The biggest problem with MCS is the poisoning.  No allergy shot is going to

do anything for that. 

>

> I agree we need it all recognized. 

>

> My legs collapse on exposue, I believe that is where the neuro/disease comes

into play.  It is complicated.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I got RADS with mine.  I understand what you are saying.  I guess in my case I

could prove MCS without all the entensive testing.  However did you know that

the MCT is harmful to people with MCS.  Best just have a pulmonary function

test and be careful with the administration of the meds during the test.  Use

yoiur own inhaler with no steroids. 

They just make evrything so hard just like with mold poisoning.  At first you

have so many syptoms no one can dignose.  And just like in MCS by the time you

get a diagnosiis it is too little too late.  You can however use medical

literaure which I did to prove your case.  I had Dr notes and medical journals

to match.  Xrays and journals to match.  You can prove your case.  I barely

had Dr notes with any that were extensive but were all consistent. 

So we are only talking about court cases or even  SS cases that go to court

??? 

 

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: " ntefusa@... " <ntefusa@...>

Sent: Tue, April 13, 2010 6:32:14 PM

Subject: Re: [] Re: Fwd: [CS-eXchange] Commission rejects chemical

sensitivity claim

 

EXACTLY Mayleen, it is NOT an allergic response. It is a systemic assault that

cannot be proven with lab draws etc......

........To get a win in court you have to prove it and also have the dx accepted

by mainstream medicine. Thats where MCS is the kiss if death as we refer to it

as.

Angel

[Guest guest]

What about these tests QMRI and  QPET  ??  Anyone here familiar with these

in proving TE ??

 

  

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: joe <josephsalowitz@...>

Sent: Tue, April 13, 2010 8:23:49 PM

Subject: [] Re: Fwd: [CS-eXchange] Commission rejects chemical

sensitivity claim

 

I get the same reactions, as you do. Many times, a ten second exposure to any

new electronics, as I slide my purchase out of it's box, is enough to give me

the reaction that you describe. I never had this reaction to chemicals, until my

first massive exposure to mold. I am positive that my body's internal

biochemical pathway, with mold reactions and with chenical reactions,

[Guest guest]

With perfume challenge they do. But WHY radiate the brain? Stanard neuro

testing works and is less invasive/problematic to the body.

[] Re: Fwd: [CS-eXchange] Commission rejects chemical

sensitivity claim

I get the same reactions, as you do. Many times, a ten second exposure to any

new electronics, as I slide my purchase out of it's box, is enough to give me

the reaction that you describe. I never had this reaction to chemicals, until my

first massive exposure to mold. I am positive that my body's internal

biochemical pathway, with mold reactions and with chenical reactions,

[Guest guest]

NOPE, no metholine was used with me when I had mine, and it did show some

pulmonary dysfunction.

That does nto prove MCS.

SS is on a case by case basis and they classify it by what the doctor dx it as.

i am going to 'predict' that those with EI are going to have to start

documenting for ADA accommdations at work and who knows what the HR dept is

going to 'consider' valid documentation.

angel

Re: [] Re: Fwd: [CS-eXchange] Commission rejects chemical

sensitivity claim

Hi,

I got RADS with mine. I understand what you are saying. I guess in my case I

could prove MCS without all the entensive testing. However did you know that

the MCT is harmful to people with MCS. Best just have a pulmonary function test

and be careful with the administration of the meds during the test. Use yoiur

own inhaler with no steroids.

They just make evrything so hard just like with mold poisoning. At first you

have so many syptoms no one can dignose. And just like in MCS by the time you

get a diagnosiis it is too little too late. You can however use medical

literaure which I did to prove your case. I had Dr notes and medical journals

to match. Xrays and journals to

[Guest guest]

for me, between the allergies and sinusitis alone it keeps my system stirred up

enough to keep the inflamation right there ready to go overboard with a few bad

exposures. winter and first rains in spring are when I get some relief from the

allergens, but I open my windows quite a bit in winter for the fresh air. hard

on the heat bill but I have to. I pretty much live in a low level inflamatory

state constantly because of the extra allergy and sinus complacations.

top that off with some pretty bad nerve damage it keeps me pretty primed for the

toxic insults to do their thing.

it's almost as if the allergies affect the outer layers of the skin while the

toxins affect deep inside, but damaged nerves are affected by both so my whole

body just fells the effects one way or another almost all the time. it ranges

from just the always there and you know it. to the intence pain, dont even touch

me pain and ackeing.

I just know it because I live it, the cns damage is affected by

allergens,irritant and toxins, not just toxins, and this is a constant state,

for better or worse.

what happens during exposure and what your left with afterwards are two

different things. it may be the toxins that do the damage but that set's you up

for the allergens,irritants,ect. depending on how bad and what organs were

damaged, as to how things are going to affect you. CSM, if you dont have stomach

problems and inflamatory bowels can help remove toxins, but it doesn't salve

everything.

and for me, with the inflamatory bowels, I cant get even a bit constapated cause

it does go to my brain when my bowels get inflamed

and it's not good. the best thing I've found for that is eating atleast 2-4 cups

of broccoli everyday. for me, keeping things moveing is more important. I've

gotten some colon flow, well report

on if it helps or not. hope I dont have a allergy to anything in it. well see.

the sinus washings help with the allergy and toxin exposures, I've learned to

listen to what my sinuses are telling me.

I dont have money to try alot of things but after finally starting to get a

fairly good understanding of whats going on and how my body is dealing with it,

I dont think alot of things are good to be trying anyway. this is going to be

somewhat different for everyone depending on the damage done. when I said the

mold allergies dont affect me as bad as the toxin exposures, I was refering to

the immediate responces, cause I think that even though I dont have the

snezy,runny,nose,watery eye effects alot, I still fell that theres a more

constant overall effect to my body because of the systemic involvement and the

effects that it has because of the nerve damage.

if if the allergy and sinus irritant,allergy,ect. is most affecting just the

senory system it's still involveing the nervous system and

many many thing cause histamine release in many parts of the body,

this alone could play a big role in the constant inflamatory state,

and in the buildup of junk at the nerve endings thats not getting tranmitted

recieved and dealt with.

so really, alot comes down to the cns damage, you add damaged olfactory and

olfactory tract to that, damage to the spinal cord at the base of the neck and a

repeatedly damage BBB and you basically have 3 easy access routes where not only

what you breath ,but also the inflamation in some parts of your body can go to

your brain.

I know that sometimes it's a infection and not just inflamation too.

the inflamation is a build up process and the infections are a fast acting

result. I'm pretty convienced that it's not that we cant get bacterial

infections, but that they just dont present ,much like the allergies, they dont

present in the way that we used to know and reconize them as. for me, the

infections dont last long but they can hit with a big bang and can either be a

short lived ordeal or some can go on the affect my sinuses>brain, my stomach and

bowels>brain and it's pretty painful.

I know I have picked up the usual bacteria's and viruses that everyone gets from

stores,grocery carts,ect. something they hit me pretty hard and than seem to

disappear some go on to cause havic on my system in one way or another.

but I am reconizeing what I precieve as the difference between inflamation and

infection,but the only real difference I can point to is the infections cause a

burning effect and the inflamation doesn't.

not in exactly the same way anyway. maybe I should say the first sign I notice

of what ends up appearing more as a infection is the burning

before things get worse. the inflamation is a less pronounced but build up that

can be felt, but they both can go into the brain and

for me, theres not much stoping them from doing just that.

so, I do good if I can have long periods inbetween brain effects,through all 3

routes, the sinus route>brain, the blood and the spinal fluid. sometimes it's

all 3 at the same time.

just like electrial current takes the easiest route, so does body invaders.

overall the body snatchers attack me worst in the summer

with the dry filth in the air, which is proably a pretty high amount of toxins

floating around. fall is worse if it's still dry because of all the

dirt,dry,leaves,and contaminants getting picked up and blown around that were

settled in the grass all summer.

I'm usaully praying for snow or rain after a few months of that.

thats why I fell that somewhere rocky,no dirt or sand would help that part

anyway, and by that also the allergy syndrome.

but no matter where you are, wind blows nasty little body snatchers everywhere.

it's in our water and food, so it's all just really hard to avoid, and the more

damage you suffer from these exposures the

harder it's going to be to keep the body snatchers from affecting you.

I know it's not a good thing, but when my body has to rid itself of build up

from toxins,inflamation or infection, it ends up in my spinal fluid and coming

out my ears and nose. it's scary and painful but I fell much better afterwards,

than it starts building up all over again. I can have long periods sometimes of

not haveing to deal with this, but obviously not long enough for any major

healing to accure to stop it from happening again. at this point those pathways

are probaly so damaged and scared that they wont heal.

my biggest worry is that eventually I well be pretty brain dead.

but for now I am keeping my brain constantly working, forceing it to do so. so

the battle is on. I'm not going down without a fight.

never have,never well.

[Guest guest]

Wow,

Thanks for sharing all of that and it sounds mcuh like me but not all.  I

appreciate the explanations and how you interpret you symptoms, reactions,

toxicity and all. 

I went out yesterday, what ever it was has crippled one leg and the pain did not

let me sleep and walking is hard.  I had an appointment today with neuro he

says I have inflamation in my neck, base of skull and more.  He ordered a

battery of tests.  Besides that I have congestion in my chest, not a lot but

enough that it is bothersome.  It is also moldy out today which is quite

bothersome.  Good thing my Dr is been receptive of it , TG !

I too can tell when inflamation or infection. It is different to me and my

body takes infections badly. 

 

 I am not going down easy either, no way, no how .........................Take

Care !!

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: osisposis <jeaninem660@...>

Sent: Wed, April 14, 2010 2:53:46 PM

Subject: [] Re: Fwd: [CS-eXchange] Commission rejects chemical

sensitivity claim

 

for me, between the allergies and sinusitis alone it keeps my system stirred up

enough to keep the inflamation right there ready to go overboard with a few bad

exposures. winter and first rains in spring are when I get some relief from the

allergens, but I open my windows quite a bit in winter for the fresh air. hard

on the heat bill but I have to. I pretty much live in a low level inflamatory

state constantly because of the extra allergy and sinus complacations.

top that off with some pretty bad nerve damage it keeps me pretty primed for the

toxic insults to do their thing.

it's almost as if the allergies affect the outer layers of the skin while the

toxins affect deep inside, but damaged nerves are affected by both so my whole

body just fells the effects one way or another almost all the time. it ranges

from just the always there and you know it. to the intence pain, dont even touch

me pain and ackeing.

I just know it because I live it, the cns damage is affected by

allergens,irritant and toxins, not just toxins, and this is a constant state,

for better or worse.

[Guest guest]

I do not know of any perfume challange.  I would never do it. I get

anaphalaxis.  The methochlo........that one I know is harmful and should not

be done to MCS'ers.  These other tests QMRI and QPET were done in a hosptal in

baltimore.   Not to me just I read a little and wanted to know if anyone had

them done.  Used to determine TE. (MCS) here is a segment:

 

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/p.tofts/QMRI/index.html

 

It says :

 

In cases involving a toxic encephalopathy, physicians in the Philadelphia area

have offered the Quantitative MRI (QMRI) or the Quantitative PET Scan (QPET).

These tests are offered at the University of Pennsylvania and a select group of

major teaching institutions. This battery of tests is the most sensitive (and

the most expensive) method of diagnosing a toxic encephalopathy.

 

The QMRI measures brain atrophy by comparing the volume reduction of lobes of

the brain and the resulting increase of cerebral spinal fluid. The PET measures

abnormalities of cerebral blood flow (CBF) and cerebral glucose metabolism

(CMRgl). A low level of CBF indicates that the brain is receiving insufficient

oxygen and nutrients. An elevation of CMRgl can result in increased toxins being

produced. The combination of low CBF and elevated CMRgl results in uncoupling

which can place the patient at risk for further brain atrophy. The test is

powerful in establishing a diagnosis of toxic encephalopathy as well as

providing a foundation for future atrophy that would entitle the plaintiff to

compensation for future disability and medical expenses.

 

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: " ntefusa@... " <ntefusa@...>

Sent: Tue, April 13, 2010 11:26:45 PM

Subject: Re: [] Re: Fwd: [CS-eXchange] Commission rejects chemical

sensitivity claim

 

With perfume challenge they do. But WHY radiate the brain? Stanard neuro testing

works and is less invasive/problemati c to the body.

[Guest guest]

No it does not prove MCS,  I too have pulmonary dificiencies , you need to

prove it is disabling to you under SS.  What does MCS do to you that does not

allow you to work.  Those are the complaints to be giving your Dr's then you

have a foundation, documented and a DX maybe.  You then prove your symptoms to

medical literature.  Sometimes there is no DX in SS.   I did not have a dx on

one.  I gave medical literature that matched findings. There is also anew

 part to SS called Compassionate Allowances to accelerate SS for certain

diseases in as little as 2 months.    For the ADA it impairs one of life's

major activities such as breathing.  With the new changes it is more clear, is

my understanding. 

Here is a site that discusses both MCS/EI the ADA and the work envrionment. 

http://askjan.org/media/MCS.html

 

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

[Guest guest]

Nope, wouldn't have them done on a bet. TWO doctors regarding SSA did

neuro-cog tests and declared me disabled under TE! No invasive testing at all.

Re: [] Re: Fwd: [CS-eXchange] Commission rejects chemical

sensitivity claim

I do not know of any perfume challange. I would never do it. I get anaphalaxis.

The methochlo........that one I know is harmful and should not be done to

MCS'ers. These other tests QMRI and QPET were done in a hosptal in baltimore.

Not to me just I read a little and wanted to know if anyone had them done. Used

to determine TE. (MCS) here is a segment:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/p.tofts/QMRI/index.html

It says :

In cases involving a toxic encephalopathy, physicians in the Philadelphia area

have offered the Quantitative MRI (QMRI) or the Quantitative PET Scan (QPET).

These tests are offered at the University of Pennsylvania and a select group of

major teaching institutions. This battery of tests is the most sensitive (and

the most expensive) method of diagnosing a toxic encephalopathy.

The QMRI measures brain atrophy by comparing the volume reduction of lobes of

the brain and the resulting increase of cerebral spinal fluid. The PET measures

abnormalities of cerebral blood flow (CBF) and cerebral glucose metabolism

(CMRgl). A low level of CBF indicates that the brain is receiving insufficient

oxygen and nutrients. An elevation of CMRgl can result in increased toxins being

produced. The combination of low CBF and elevated CMRgl results in uncoupling

which can place the patient at risk for further brain atrophy. The test is

powerful in establishing a diagnosis of toxic encephalopathy as well as

providing a foundation for future atrophy that would entitle the plaintiff to

compensation for future disability and medical expenses.

[Guest guest]

The compassiona allowanced will NOT work for MSC/TE etc. ITs for major TBI's,

cancer, organ failure.

I don't know where you are getting your info that respiratory deficiences from

fragrances are not considered disabling under SSA. It impedes a major life

activity, terefore,its a disability.

The new ADA laws are so much more broader, its a major bene to all of us.

Re: [] Re: Fwd: [CS-eXchange] Commission rejects chemical

sensitivity claim

No it does not prove MCS, I too have pulmonary dificiencies , you need to prove

it is disabling to you under SS. What does MCS do to you that does not allow

you to work. Those are the complaints to be giving your Dr's then you have a

foundation, documented and a DX maybe. You then prove your symptoms to medical

literature.