OT: how to prove a prescription drug allergy / reaction?

[Guest guest]

I have a history of taking a prescription - Coumadin / warfarin - for a

number of years in my past due to recurrent extensive DVT (and yeah, I've

got all the associated and related complications now as well), then was off

if the prescription for approximately 12 years. Recently I was put back

onto the same prescription once again for a relatively minor recurrence of

the old situation (there have been a number of minor recurrences in the past

that I dealt with on my own, realizing they would make a medical circus out

of it, but stoopid me wasn't thinking, got diagnosed again this summer and

it immediately became a medical circus... just as I had previously realized

but had failed to remember...)

However, since the first days of being back in this prescription, I've felt

like I was burning inside... inside my veins. I can't get them to

understand this. Complicating the situation is that the anti-coagulation

clinic left me non-therapuetic for the vast majority of the weeks. So

somewhere along the line (I'm certain as to when) this relatively minor

situation has remanifested as an " extreme " situation - which is precisely

what the prescription will do when not in therapuetic range.

For whatever reason, it's now taking nearly TWICE as much of the

prescription to get me anywhere near therapuetic range as it did over a

decade ago. What would cause this?

What could be in Coumadin / warfarin that would inflame my veins from the

inside? I literally feel like my veins are on fire at times.. like they are

on low simmer most of the time? The docs are blowing me off stating it's a

reaction to the blood clots. No thanks, I've had blood clots multiple times

WITHOUT Coumadin.. this only happens when I'm on Coumadin / warfarin. My

leg is in constant microspasms with EXTREME cramping lasting hours at a

time.

I'm certain the first extreme cramp, lasting over 4 hours in duration

leaving me unable to walk at all is what led to a much bigger complication

now... severe severe pain ever since... almost like my muscles were

ripping.... and I'm the one who trained in a shredded ACL for another 20

minutes after rupturing it and consistently for almost another year... until

it was finally removed... later reconstructed.. which is what led to the

DVTs in the first place. I so preach against hormones and pharmacuetical

birth control now... 20/20 hindsight I was never educated on until AFTER I

was in the hospital the SECOND TIME for life-threatening DVT.

Thanks for any insight, I'm really stuck here :-( I really suspect I'm

having some sort of allergy or reaction (d'oh...) but the doctors have

decided I just don't want to be on the drug. (Hello Docs, I'd MUCH rather

swallow a single pill a day than give myself 2 injections a day.... )

Anyone have an extinguisher for veins?? :-( Not even a Rx

anti-inflammatory nor muscle relaxers are touching the simmering...and

definitely not the flames.

Jeri

[Guest guest]

Do you know if you have a chemical intolerance ?  I have problems with meds due

to additives, fillers, binders  etc.  Have had reactions to meds, 

 

Magnesium sterate is one in almost all now especially tablets I have a serious

problem with.  Therfore I opt out of most all meds. 

Steric acid

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: Jeri Zerr <jerizerr@...>

Sent: Wed, August 11, 2010 2:34:32 PM

Subject: [] OT: how to prove a prescription drug allergy /

reaction?

 

I have a history of taking a prescription - Coumadin / warfarin - for a

number of years in my past due to recurrent extensive DVT (and yeah, I've

got all the associated and related complications now as well), then was off

if the prescription for approximately 12 years. Recently I was put back

onto the same prescription once again for a relatively minor recurrence of

the old situation (there have been a number of minor recurrences in the past

that I dealt with on my own, realizing they would make a medical

[Guest guest]

I have no idea. It seems to just be to warfarin. My doc sent a rx to a

different pharmacy today, different generic. Within minutes of taking it

this evening I've gone nuts. Again. Same symptoms. I've been laying here

crying, scared, confused, going nuts with my leg.

Warfarin is from a mycotoxin, that's why I've turned here... something is

seriously wrong, but I don't know what to do. The. Er just made a mockery

of me yesterday. My docs all say if I don't take this drug, they won't be my

dr. There's lovenox, but they say they won't prescribe it. I hate lovenox

injections, my stomach is purple patches of bruises now from it while in the

hospital, but its better than the hell I'm going through with the warfarin

:-(

Help, I don't know what to do.

Jeri

On Aug 11, 2010 10:13 PM, " dragonflymcs " <dragonflymcs@...> wrote:

Do you know if you have a chemical intolerance ? I have problems with meds

due

to additives, fillers, binders etc. Have had reactions to meds,

Magnesium sterate is one in almost all now especially tablets I have a

serious

problem with. Therfore I opt out of most all meds.

Steric acid

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

[Guest guest]

" It seems to just be to warfarin.....I've been laying here crying, scared,

confused, going nuts with my leg....My docs all say if I don't take this

drug, they won't be my dr.... "

Huh? So, they would quit " helping you to get well " if you don't take a

drug that makes you sick?

In a message dated 8/13/2010 9:34:24 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

toxicologist1@... writes:

I have no idea. It seems to just be to warfarin. My doc sent a rx to a

different pharmacy today, different generic. Within minutes of taking it

this evening I've gone nuts. Again. Same symptoms. I've been laying here

crying, scared, confused, going nuts with my leg.

Warfarin is from a mycotoxin, that's why I've turned here... something is

seriously wrong, but I don't know what to do. The. Er just made a mockery

of me yesterday. My docs all say if I don't take this drug, they won't be

my

dr.

[Guest guest]

Warfarin is a product obtained form a fungus ( Beauveria bassiana) also the

actinomycete- Streptomyces rimosus. You are probably reacting to the impurities

in the drug. You are better off taking aspirin.

http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1080/004982597240659

Re: [] OT: how to prove a prescription drug allergy /

reaction?

I have no idea. It seems to just be to warfarin. My doc sent a rx to a

different pharmacy today, different generic. Within minutes of taking it

this evening I've gone nuts. Again. Same symptoms. I've been laying here

crying, scared, confused, going nuts with my leg.

Warfarin is from a mycotoxin, that's why I've turned here... something is

seriously wrong, but I don't know what to do. The. Er just made a mockery

of me yesterday. My docs all say if I don't take this drug, they won't be my

dr. There's lovenox, but they say they won't prescribe it. I hate lovenox

injections, my stomach is purple patches of bruises now from it while in the

hospital, but its better than the hell I'm going through with the warfarin

:-(

Help, I don't know what to do.

Jeri

[Guest guest]

Thanks Jack,

Today I'm realizing something.. I now seriously believe warfarin is

actually CAUSING me to create new blood clots, perhaps by irritating the

lining of my veins... though that I'm not certain. I just know that soon

after taking the next dose, I go absolutely nuts. Anxious. Irritable.

tingling inside then leads into a burning sensation anywhere my leg touches

anything for any duration, then on and on.. last night I lay crying in this

state for several hours before finally summoning an ambulance - no way I

could drive in that state. ER doc simply said not to take anymore of the Rx

until I see my docs. No docs want to see me, in fact I was told by one of

my docs they are just waiting for me to go away. I've been told if I don't

take the Rx, they won't be my doc.

So I'm totally between a rock and a hard place here. I KNOW I need some

sort of anticoagulation therapy, I do indeed have blood clots, again. DVT.

again. 4th time documented. I hate lovenox, but it's much better than this

hell.

Here's the really crazy part. 17 years ago when I was first Dx'd, each addl

dopplar and venagram over the years was worse... much worse. Then when I

was no longer on the warfarin, each dopplar study progressively improves

until 2008 when there were no real documented thrombi. Then this June they

see some minor non-occluding clots, put me back on Warfarin. I kept going

nuts, more nuts, with each dose, now I have substantial growth to the now

extreme DVT.

So about an hour ago I finally came to the realization that I'm certain the

warfarin is TRIGGERING clot growth. I have no idea how, I have no medical

training... but I KNOW what's happening in my body.

Jeri

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Jack Thrasher, Ph.D. <

toxicologist1@...> wrote:

>

>

> Warfarin is a product obtained form a fungus ( Beauveria bassiana) also the

> actinomycete- Streptomyces rimosus. You are probably reacting to the

> impurities in the drug. You are better off taking aspirin.

>

> http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1080/004982597240659

>

>

[Guest guest]

I suggest that you do a google search on VEGF (Vascular endothelial growth

factor). You may actually have angiogenesis (growth of capillaries with some

clotting). VEGF can be elevated in individuals with chronic immune response

syndrome.

Re: [] OT: how to prove a prescription drug allergy /

reaction?

Thanks Jack,

Today I'm realizing something.. I now seriously believe warfarin is

actually CAUSING me to create new blood clots, perhaps by irritating the

lining of my veins... though that I'm not certain. I just know that soon

after taking the next dose, I go absolutely nuts. Anxious. Irritable.

tingling inside then leads into a burning sensation anywhere my leg touches

anything for any duration, then on and on.. last night I lay crying in this

state for several hours before finally summoning an ambulance - no way I

could drive in that state. ER doc simply said not to take anymore of the Rx

until I see my docs. No docs want to see me, in fact I was told by one of

my docs they are just waiting for me to go away. I've been told if I don't

take the Rx, they won't be my doc.

So I'm totally between a rock and a hard place here. I KNOW I need some

sort of anticoagulation therapy, I do indeed have blood clots, again. DVT.

again. 4th time documented. I hate lovenox, but it's much better than this

hell.

Here's the really crazy part. 17 years ago when I was first Dx'd, each addl

dopplar and venagram over the years was worse... much worse. Then when I

was no longer on the warfarin, each dopplar study progressively improves

until 2008 when there were no real documented thrombi. Then this June they

see some minor non-occluding clots, put me back on Warfarin. I kept going

nuts, more nuts, with each dose, now I have substantial growth to the now

extreme DVT.

So about an hour ago I finally came to the realization that I'm certain the

warfarin is TRIGGERING clot growth. I have no idea how, I have no medical

training... but I KNOW what's happening in my body.

Jeri

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Jack Thrasher, Ph.D. <

toxicologist1@...> wrote:

>

>

> Warfarin is a product obtained form a fungus ( Beauveria bassiana) also the

> actinomycete- Streptomyces rimosus. You are probably reacting to the

> impurities in the drug. You are better off taking aspirin.

>

> http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1080/004982597240659

>

>

[Guest guest]

yes. they've all said without me taking that Rx, they won't be my doc.

They've gone on record telling other docs such as the ER docs the same

thing.

As I said, I'm stuck. Without them I can't get the alternative therapy,

lovenox. Any ideas other therapies for anticoagulation? I see Chinese

docs, OMDs, they suggested dan shen and nattokinase. The interventional

radiologist mentioned horse chestnut. The vascular surgeons office called

me back today, won't schedule an appointment, said if I needed anything to

have my doctor contact his office directly. Same has happened with

cardiologist. I've been contacting them since June, they haven't scheduled

me for a visit - been hospitalized in that time for the new extensive clots

even.

So basically they are already turning their backs on me and my situation. It

seems if a patient doesn't fit perfectly into their box they turn the

patient away.

Jack, I searched on VEGF - my mind is still in this fog (I qualify for

mensa, I'm not usually like this) I haven't wrapped my mind around the

connection that you may be indicating...

Normally I am a very high IQ, can wrap my mind around the most complex of

problems. I'm an INTJ/P if that gives you some idea... but now I can't keep

simple thoughts in my head, am very clouded and out of focus mentally.

I met someone yesterday - she seemed concerned that my blood type - O+ -

relates to this, said O's don't handle mold well. She suggested I avoid

" cantelope, honey dew and other high mold foods. "

Literally the week before I was admitted with a significant increase in the

DVT, I was in some very toxic environments. I was in homes and businesses

that had been affected by seepage, flood waters, sewage backup and even some

foundations shifting due to the hydrostatic pressure. Hundreds of homes. I

realize now I was symptomatic to the warfarin prior to this exposure.. but

it all seems worse now. My dosage was also significantly increased around

that time..

no answers, just more puzzle pieces to examine...

Jeri

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 1:26 PM, <snk1955@...> wrote:

>

>

> " It seems to just be to warfarin.....I've been laying here crying, scared,

> confused, going nuts with my leg....My docs all say if I don't take this

> drug, they won't be my dr.... "

>

> Huh? So, they would quit " helping you to get well " if you don't take a

> drug that makes you sick?

>

>

>

>

> In a message dated 8/13/2010 9:34:24 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

> toxicologist1@... <toxicologist1%40msn.com> writes:

>

> I have no idea. It seems to just be to warfarin. My doc sent a rx to a

> different pharmacy today, different generic. Within minutes of taking it

> this evening I've gone nuts. Again. Same symptoms. I've been laying here

> crying, scared, confused, going nuts with my leg.

>

> Warfarin is from a mycotoxin, that's why I've turned here... something is

> seriously wrong, but I don't know what to do. The. Er just made a mockery

> of me yesterday. My docs all say if I don't take this drug, they won't be

> my

> dr.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

If you have an elevated VGEF which can occur in moldies, may be the problem.

VGEF causes the growth of capillaries and small blood vessels. Clotting can

occur in these areas. Warfarin is a microbial product, therefore, probably

contains fungal and/or actinomycete antigens. If this is true, these antigens

can then activate systemic pro-inflammatory cytokines and chemokines. The

latter will then produce a myriad of symptoms commonly known as brain fog and

other symptoms associated with WDB exposure. I would suggest a non-microbial

anti-coagulant. Before selecting one, do a Google search to determine its

source of manufacturing.

Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Off: 916-745-4703

Cell: 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

916-745-4703 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

privileged and confidential. The forwarding or redistribution of this message

(and any attachments) without my prior written consent is strictly prohibited

and may violate privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this message has been

served, please destroy the original message contents. If you have received this

message in error, please reply immediately to advise the sender of the

miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies you have printed.

Thank you in advance for your compliance.

[Guest guest]

it is also rat poison

[Guest guest]

The doctors claim there are only 2 anticoagulants. Coumadin / warfarin or

heparin / lovenox. I don't mind taking the lovenox, seem to do much better,

but is an expensive injection and ins will be a huge stumbling block...and

so far doctors won't prescribe.

Have you come across any other anticoags that are not from a microbial

source that we haven't considered yet?

My life involves disasters, I've been hit with a flash flood before, and

growing up we dealt with sewer backup repeatedly until the city fixed the

problem so I have been exposed to some very bad conditions repeatedly in my

life. I've detoxed over the years and otherwise live a holistic lifestyle

as chemical free as realistically possible - we don't even use windex, I

make our own multisurface cleaner from water, vinegar and vodka..

My dosage of coumadin is currently 10 mgs / day - a very high dose. I've

taken as much as 15 mg/day. This is a very high dose, but its needed to get

my INR in therapuetic range. Years ago my dose was only 6mg / day.

This evening I was fine, took a quarter dose. I felt it but didn't react

horribly. Now I've taken another quarter dose. More reaction, tolerable,

but most definitely noticeable. I guess I will stay up awhile, repeat in

another hour or so til its all taken. Perhaps this weekend I can spread the

doses out throughout the day... at least hopefully so there's not a fourth

er visit in 10 days....

In the meantime... what's a good way to detox from the impurities... or two

reduce the effects of repeated exposure? How to calm the cytokine or

chemokine storm?

What I notice most is a burning sensation internally, feels like within the

veins, especially in my affected leg. Muscles begin microspasms, including

twitches and " rolling spasms " visible on the skin surface. Then the burning

and hypersensitivity begins, it BURNS anywhere my leg touches things for any

duration, such as sitting in the recliner or laying in bed. A tingling

sensation develops amidst this, pins and needles as though circulation has

been cut off, you know the feeling. Brainfog ensues, confusion, ringing in

the ears, a total lack of concentration or clarity. I feel it now, after

taking the second quarter dose, feels like I can't express what I'm trying

to get across.

ER docs said its my muscles being starved for oxygen due to the blood clots.

Big problem... it only occurrs after I've taken the warfarin. Hours later

and its fine again. The fog lifts (mostly) and the burning /

hypersensitivity decreases...until the next full dose. What gives? I

realize its NOT the dvt, since I've had dvt as seen on a dopplar study, was

not treated (long story there....) and I never developed these problems.

Only when I take the warfarin do I develop these issues.

Because this is officially the 4th dvt, three of which were extensive,

they've clearly explained they want me on this drug the remainder of my

life. I'm only 38, I cannot begin fathoming living in a brain cloud and

physical burning sensation the remainder..... I have already been going nuts

and having anxiety attacks over this, is this really the life I'm destined

to live? If so, I want no part of it... no thanks big pharma. I can't do

this the rest of my life. I will dig deep to survive the weekend so maybe a

doctor can figure this out next week... but I don't know how much longer

past that I will be able to endure this drug, at least without some sort of

way to remediate the effects.

Jeri

On Aug 13, 2010 3:37 PM, " Jack Thrasher, Ph.D. " <toxicologist1@...>

wrote:

If you have an elevated VGEF which can occur in moldies, may be the problem.

VGEF causes the growth of capillaries and small blood vessels. Clotting can

occur in these areas. Warfarin is a microbial product, therefore, probably

contains fungal and/or actinomycete antigens. If this is true, these

antigens can then activate systemic pro-inflammatory cytokines and

chemokines. The latter will then produce a myriad of symptoms commonly known

as brain fog and other symptoms associated with WDB exposure. I would

suggest a non-microbial anti-coagulant. Before selecting one, do a Google

search to determine its source of manufacturing.

Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@... <toxicologist1%40msn.com>

Off: 916-745-4703

Cell: 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@... <sandracrawley%40msn.com>

916-745-4703 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

privileged and confidential. The forwarding or redistribution of this

message (and any attachments) without my prior written consent is strictly

prohibited and may violate privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this

message has been served, please destroy the original message contents. If

you have received this message in error, please reply immediately to advise

the sender of the miscommunication and then delete the message and any

copies you have printed. Thank you in advance for your compliance.

[Guest guest]

I found this information, you may want to do some reasearch on natural remedies

to help yourself........Dr Thrasher also suggested something for

you...............

 http://www.natural-homeremedies.com/blog/how-to-prevent-and-cure-blood-clots-n\

aturally/

 

  

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: Jeri Zerr <jerizerr@...>

Sent: Fri, August 13, 2010 11:15:30 PM

Subject: Re: [] OT: how to prove a prescription drug allergy /

reaction?

The doctors claim there are only 2 anticoagulants. Coumadin / warfarin or

heparin / lovenox. I don't mind taking the lovenox, seem to do much better,

but is an expensive injection and ins will be a huge stumbling block...and

so far doctors won't prescribe.

Dr Thrasher, Have you come across any other anticoags that are not from a

microbial

source that we haven't considered yet?

[Guest guest]

Oh my, what other garbage are they giving people......wew

 

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: " lizzianthus007@... " <lizzianthus007@...>

Sent: Fri, August 13, 2010 10:17:18 PM

Subject: [] Re: OT: how to prove a prescription drug allergy /

reaction?

It is also rat poison

[Guest guest]

Using it as a rat poison is very effective. The rats dye from internal bleeding

after eating Coumarin and/or Wafarin

[] Re: OT: how to prove a prescription drug allergy /

reaction?

It is also rat poison

[Guest guest]

I often get what you have discribed as burning/pain in the veins and it hurts to

be touched, usually from a re-exposure of some type.

I also have blood clotting going on.

alot of pain comes from this and just makes me acke all over, I

associated it with re-accureing toxic vasculitis.

>

> The doctors claim there are only 2 anticoagulants. Coumadin / warfarin or

> heparin / lovenox. I don't mind taking the lovenox, seem to do much better,

> but is an expensive injection and ins will be a huge stumbling block...and

> so far doctors won't prescribe.

>

> Have you come across any other anticoags that are not from a microbial

> source that we haven't considered yet?

>

>

[Guest guest]

I couldn't get the link to load, but my web browser has been having issues

anyway...

Thanks EVERYONE! Jack, I hope you don't mind but I wrote my two main docs

dealing with this a nice 6 page letter and included your contact

information.

At this point after reviewing my leg ultrasounds from the past 17 years I am

*certain* that I am not only having a reaction to the warfarin, but each and

every time I had a dopplar while on warfarin, it was extensively worse than

previous dopplars. All dopplar while I was off of coumadin were remarkably

better over the years.

So I did indeed twice have new occurances of DVTs without recent prior

warfarin exposure - the very first I was on birth control pills, had

extremity surgery a couple weeks before, extensive travel via small compact

vehicle while in a leg immobilizer (and I have a 36 " inseam hence very long

legs), so all sorts of factors that easily could have contributed to the

first. The second was much more extensive - and while I had been on

warfarin 6 months. The official third was the real puzzle... until

realizing the situation around whence I developed the DVT.... and overall it

was realitively minor. Also realizing that I obviously have extensive

scarring in my veins since a vascular surgeon refused to operate for a

possible may thurner way back in '95 since the remainder of the veins in my

leg were " destroyed " and nothing was left viable for a possible bypass to

reattach to... This fourth official one though, I was still on warfarin

from the recent third DVT (end of June) and I kept telling the anticoag

clinic I was worsening, I wanted to go to the ER, etc etc but they kept

talking me out of it. I'm CERTAIN I was developing these extensive clots

then. Well I finally did go to the ER, and my clots were indeed now very

extensive. WHILE ON WARFARIN THERAPY. In fact today, still on warfarin

therapy, I am certain they are even more extensive than they were when

discharged from the hospital just last week. Much longer and I believe I

will be fully occluded extensively all throughout my leg. AGAIN. Third

time. Do I really want this to happen??? NO. I need a doctor who can

convince the insurance co that I need Lovenox. What type of doctor can do

this? I'm in the St. Louis metro area. I've been to primary family

practice, internist, pulmonologist, cardiologist, vascular surgeon (see him

again Friday), a hematologist and even an interventional radiologist. WHO

can determine finally that I am indeed reacting to warfarin, growing yet

more extensive clots while on warfarin and I *need* to get to Lovenox before

my situation is much worse.

The sad state of affairs, I have a wonderful oriental medicine doctor (OMD)

who can help me fight this, but my docs all say " no warfarin, we're not your

doc anymore " . I finally have one convinced that this isn't in my head, so

he's willing to stay on board... but I really KNOW that I need the Lovenox,

not to just cold turkey away from warfarin is just asking for a bad outcome,

too.

So what do I do? What sort of specialist can work with me to get the much

needed Lovenox??

Osiporis, are you on anti-coagulation therapy? If so, what type?

I grew up in a home that was repeatedly affected by sewage backup until the

city finally reconstructed the pipes under the street. Later I lived in a

condo / apartment with a leaky tub upstairs (my brother's place, he was

deadly sick with COPD when he finally moved 2 decades later, now he's fine

living in a dryer climate) and have since been exposed to numerous WDBs as

part of my job. No complaints, just some historical info. And I'm blood

type O - I hear Os have a much worse time with mold exposure...

Jeri

[Guest guest]

That is okay with me.

Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Off: 916-745-4703

Cell: 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

916-745-4703 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

privileged and confidential. The forwarding or redistribution of this message

(and any attachments) without my prior written consent is strictly prohibited

and may violate privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this message has been

served, please destroy the original message contents. If you have received this

message in error, please reply immediately to advise the sender of the

miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies you have printed.

Thank you in advance for your compliance.