Re: Self-defeating actions [WAS: What can off gas and wh...

[Guest guest]

Its not to judge and you are right - there are SOME who have no choice.

But that is not much of what has been discussed recently on this board.

From what I have been seeing is several people who keep asking over and over

again if they have to leave to get better. They keep getting the same

answer, " yes " . But keep asking again. It is a hard thing to do to walk away

from your stuff - even if you can afford to do it.

As far as being able to live on GA of $200 p/mo, are you saying where you

live now is the only place in the world that you could live on that? What

is it that makes where you are now, so unique from all others?

There is another concern here for those that stay in moldie places and are

in litigation. I have seen cases where it has actually been used AGAINST

the person for staying even after they know mold is dangerous. Where a

jury finds the sick person a percentage responsible for their illnesses.

Have seen others that this is not the case.

And to answer someone's question. Yes. I would go live under a bridge

before I would allow a moldy house to forever damage the health of my family.

A bridge would be temporary. Lost health is forever.

In a message dated 8/14/2010 3:08:41 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

mnpearl@... writes:

I take issue with your analogy........

In the case of the car accident, it would be a more proper analogy that

you

didn't have a cell phone because you couldn't afford one. Is that your

fault? Are you to blame if you are unable to call 911 because you are not

able to afford a cell phone?

If someone sets your house on fire, you run because you are able to run

and

you know even though you will lose everything, there is insurance money to

replace what you lost. No one would stay in a burning house unless they

were unable to run.

And who in the world would keep beating their head against a wall? A

better analogy would be that you are getting beat up all the time and no

one

will help you. You ask and ask but your pleas go unanswered.

It's not so simple when you have absolutely no $$. Have you tried living

on GA of $200 a month? Where would you live on that? It's so easy for

others to judge who have not walked a mile in your shoes.

When you have a roof over your head and there is no where else to

go......do you stay or take your children and go live under a bridge?

Wait.....there's probably mold under that bridge too.

Again, everyone is doing the best they can given the state of their health

and their finances. We get enough judgment from those who don't

understand, why do we need to come here and be judged again?

Jean

Sharon Noonan Kramer

[Guest guest]

Yes. Sometimes people DO need help. But sometimes help does not come.

When help does not come, sometimes people have to find their boot straps and

pull on their own.

Using my sister again as an analogy. If no one had come to help her and

she stayed in the sick marriage, her life would be miserable today.

So if no one comes to help you get out of a sick building and you stay,

will your life be miserable tomorrow?

Please don't misunderstand. I am not saying that people who stay in

moldie buildings are bad because they should get out. I am trying to help

some. A reiteration that if no help is on the way then one needs to do it

themselves - is the help I can offer.

I would be lying to you if I said, " That okay, stay. You can't get out. "

No. It is not okay by me. I don't want to see anymore lives ruined. I

can't do anything to physically help you. But I can tell you that it

concerns me to see people who stay. I worry for their safety and future.

This issue has come up on this board several times over the years. It is

ALWAYS a touchy subject.

No one is judging anyone. Just sometimes it is good to reiterate the

importance of getting out if your environment is making you and your family

sick. As far as I am aware and just like my sister, we all only have one

life.

In a message dated 8/14/2010 7:06:36 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

mnpearl@... writes:

But Sharon, what you are saying illustrates my point exactly. Sometimes

people need help. Your sister was very lucky to have the 3 of you to

rescue

her. Sometimes people need to be rescued because the situation they are

in is too overwhelming or has made them too sick or has taken so much of

their $$ that there is nothing left to do what is necessary. I don't know

too

many people who have a family that will step in to help. Most often even

families think those with chemical sensitivities and/or mold issues are

crazy. And of course, you never help a crazy person.

Jean

[Guest guest]

I think some people push because they are not at a level of damage thats forcing

them out and just can't see how far it can go and that this isn't just something

you easily if at all, and the longer you stay the less likely it is that you

might recover. they just dont get it. I think it's even possable that some are

haveing maybe unreconize brain responces that actually make them unable to

connect the dots. and when I went through this I was basicly told nothing,

by no body and it remained that way for 3 years and I remained in zombieland all

three of those years until I found someone to give me some direction, so really

if we are here for a reason, maybe this is just it.

I dont think we can judge, there can be alot of reason why people deside to do

what ever they do, maybe we cant save the world, we can only try to help.

wouldn't it be nice if the public knew and understood what this is really all

about.

>

>

>

>

>

> Its not to judge and you are right - there are SOME who have no choice.

> But that is not much of what has been discussed recently on this board.

> From what I have been seeing is several people who keep asking over and over

> again if they have to leave to get better. They keep getting the same

> answer, " yes " . But keep asking again. It is a hard thing to do to walk away

> from your stuff - even if you can afford to do it.

>

> As far as being able to live on GA of $200 p/mo, are you saying where you

> live now is the only place in the world that you could live on that? What

> is it that makes where you are now, so unique from all others?

>

> There is another concern here for those that stay in moldie places and are

> in litigation. I have seen cases where it has actually been used AGAINST

> the person for staying even after they know mold is dangerous. Where a

> jury finds the sick person a percentage responsible for their illnesses.

> Have seen others that this is not the case.

>

> And to answer someone's question. Yes. I would go live under a bridge

> before I would allow a moldy house to forever damage the health of my family.

> A bridge would be temporary. Lost health is forever.

>

> In a message dated 8/14/2010 3:08:41 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

> mnpearl@... writes:

>

> I take issue with your analogy........

>

> In the case of the car accident, it would be a more proper analogy that

> you

> didn't have a cell phone because you couldn't afford one. Is that your

> fault? Are you to blame if you are unable to call 911 because you are not

> able to afford a cell phone?

>

> If someone sets your house on fire, you run because you are able to run

> and

> you know even though you will lose everything, there is insurance money to

> replace what you lost. No one would stay in a burning house unless they

> were unable to run.

>

> And who in the world would keep beating their head against a wall? A

> better analogy would be that you are getting beat up all the time and no

> one

> will help you. You ask and ask but your pleas go unanswered.

>

> It's not so simple when you have absolutely no $$. Have you tried living

> on GA of $200 a month? Where would you live on that? It's so easy for

> others to judge who have not walked a mile in your shoes.

>

> When you have a roof over your head and there is no where else to

> go......do you stay or take your children and go live under a bridge?

> Wait.....there's probably mold under that bridge too.

>

> Again, everyone is doing the best they can given the state of their health

> and their finances. We get enough judgment from those who don't

> understand, why do we need to come here and be judged again?

>

> Jean

>

>

>

>

>

> Sharon Noonan Kramer

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

What I am saying is that when you only receive $200 a month, you have few

options. Living under a bridge would not be one of them because you

wouldn't be able to get GA if you have no permanent address. It's unlikely

anyone would hire you either.

Besides, I don't think anyone who was made sick by mold would be able to

tolerate living under a bridge. And how would a bridge be temporary when

you have no $$? Of course, I guess that wouldn't matter after a while

because if you live in a cold climate you probably would die of exposure

anyway.

Jean

" As far as being able to live on GA of $200 p/mo, are you saying where you

live now is the only place in the world that you could live on that? What

is it that makes where you are now, so unique from all others?

There is another concern here for those that stay in moldie places and are

in litigation. I have seen cases where it has actually been used AGAINST

the person for staying even after they know mold is dangerous. Where a

jury finds the sick person a percentage responsible for their illnesses.

Have seen others that this is not the case.

And to answer someone's question. Yes. I would go live under a bridge

before I would allow a moldy house to forever damage the health of my

family.

A bridge would be temporary. Lost health is forever. "

[Guest guest]

For 2 years I went to Dr's and was tested for everything but, even though

I said

several times I believed there was mold.  I was told mold cannot harm you. 

When

I tested I did my own research on what was growing within. Linked my problems to

the house but by the I had funzalow , MCS and no way out, no where to go. My

story is more complicate than that but  I got sick fast to the point my lung

disease developed in 2 weeks I had pulmonary fibrosis.  I have the scans.

Quickly progressed . One year earlier I could have gotten out.  had my Dr's

 not

been as badly informed as they are.  I saw quite a few. Even with report in

hand

there was denial and no thought of even looking into it.

I was misinformed by Dr's, cheated by ins, lost my health  soif you can, if you

can before you end up on 02 and no where to lug that big heavy tank to leave.

Let's no forget FEMA is useless as ...............what is the word. ??

 

There is help sometimes after homelessness and not before.  So while you look

and look for help before you will only find it after. The shelters are made to

work like that. At least here. You only learn after the fact. Of course it meant

nothing to me since I had MCS and a tank to lug.   I also was faced with

discrimination.

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: osisposis <jeaninem660@...>

Sent: Sat, August 14, 2010 10:01:42 PM

Subject: [] Re: Self-defeating actions [WAS: What can off gas and

wh...

 

I think some people push because they are not at a level of damage thats forcing

them out and just can't see how far it can go and that this isn't just something

you easily if at all, and the longer you stay t

[Guest guest]

Jeanine,

You raise another important point. The effect of exposures and ill

health on the brain. On our ability to discern and understand

complex events while in the midst of crisis.

Go to 's Web site at http://drclaudiamiller.com/ and

look at her QEESI evaluation form. One of the ten body systems

which can be affected is cognition. Another is " affective, " which

means emotions. Brain fog combined with fear and anxiety

triggered by exposures (not psychosomatic!) can really mess up

your life and your ability to fight your way to improvement.

If we aren't aware of this, or take it into account, we easily get lost

in the complexity.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

I think some people push because they are not at a level of damage thats forcing

them out and just can't see how far it can go and that this isn't just something

you easily if at all, and the longer you stay the less likely it is that you

might recover. they just dont get it. I think it's even possable that some are

haveing maybe unreconize brain responces that actually make them unable to

connect the dots. and when I went through this I was basicly told nothing,

by no body and it remained that way for 3 years and I remained in zombieland all

three of those years until I found someone to give me some direction, so really

if we are here for a reason, maybe this is just it.

I dont think we can judge, there can be alot of reason why people deside to do

what ever they do, maybe we cant save the world, we can only try to help.

wouldn't it be nice if the public knew and understood what this is really all

about.

>

>

>

>

>

> Its not to judge and you are right - there are SOME who have no choice.

> But that is not much of what has been discussed recently on this board.

> From what I have been seeing is several people who keep asking over and over

> again if they have to leave to get better. They keep getting the same

> answer, " yes " . But keep asking again. It is a hard thing to do to walk away

> from your stuff - even if you can afford to do it.

>

> As far as being able to live on GA of $200 p/mo, are you saying where you

> live now is the only place in the world that you could live on that? What

> is it that makes where you are now, so unique from all others?

>

> There is another concern here for those that stay in moldie places and are

> in litigation. I have seen cases where it has actually been used AGAINST

> the person for staying even after they know mold is dangerous. Where a

> jury finds the sick person a percentage responsible for their illnesses.

> Have seen others that this is not the case.

>

> And to answer someone's question. Yes. I would go live under a bridge

> before I would allow a moldy house to forever damage the health of my family.

> A bridge would be temporary. Lost health is forever.

>

> In a message dated 8/14/2010 3:08:41 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

> mnpearl@... writes:

>

> I take issue with your analogy........

>

> In the case of the car accident, it would be a more proper analogy that

> you

> didn't have a cell phone because you couldn't afford one. Is that your

> fault? Are you to blame if you are unable to call 911 because you are not

> able to afford a cell phone?

>

> If someone sets your house on fire, you run because you are able to run

> and

> you know even though you will lose everything, there is insurance money to

> replace what you lost. No one would stay in a burning house unless they

> were unable to run.

>

> And who in the world would keep beating their head against a wall? A

> better analogy would be that you are getting beat up all the time and no

> one

> will help you. You ask and ask but your pleas go unanswered.

>

> It's not so simple when you have absolutely no $$. Have you tried living

> on GA of $200 a month? Where would you live on that? It's so easy for

> others to judge who have not walked a mile in your shoes.

>

> When you have a roof over your head and there is no where else to

> go......do you stay or take your children and go live under a bridge?

> Wait.....there's probably mold under that bridge too.

>

> Again, everyone is doing the best they can given the state of their health

> and their finances. We get enough judgment from those who don't

> understand, why do we need to come here and be judged again?

>

> Jean

>

>

>

>

>

> Sharon Noonan Kramer

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Carl and Jeanine,

That is a VERY important point. Brain fog from this. It makes it hard to

focus sometimes even on little things (like remembering to buy everything

you went to the grocery to buy, etc).

Somedays it is just overwhelming to get up off the couch. I know. I

remember. The thought of having to move, organize to move, can seem to be an

unsurmoutable task. I fear that sometimes this situation contributes to

people not leaving a sick environment...which causes them to get

sicker...which makes it even harder to leave...which causes them to get

sickers....which......

Its too bad they don't have battered mold victim shelters in cities like

they have battered women's shelters. Someplace people can go temporarily to

get their strength back.

Sharon

In a message dated 8/15/2010 1:10:25 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

grimes@... writes:

Jeanine,

You raise another important point. The effect of exposures and ill

health on the brain. On our ability to discern and understand

complex events while in the midst of crisis.

Go to 's Web site at _http://drclaudiamiller.com/_

(http://drclaudiamiller.com/) and

look at her QEESI evaluation form. One of the ten body systems

which can be affected is cognition. Another is " affective, " which

means emotions. Brain fog combined with fear and anxiety

triggered by exposures (not psychosomatic!) can really mess up

your life and your ability to fight your way to improvement.

If we aren't aware of this, or take it into account, we easily get lost

in the complexity.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

Sharon Noonan Kramer

[Guest guest]

I was reacting to everything before I hit the road. To top it off I had to leave

my house for 80 hrs a week & sit in parking lots whenever the neighbor burned

something or did laundry. Next to the door I kept a small bag packed with a

snack & hot water in a thermos-ready to grab on my way out. I had it down to

where I could get out of the house & into my vehicle within 30 seconds.

Little by little every time I had good moments I put my stuff in storage &

packed my vehicle for life on the road. After 3 days on the road I was a new

woman.

Avoiding chemicals while homeless was like living on the front lines but I was

in a " home " that made it easier to practice avoidance more consistantly than in

a stationary home. I ate very little due to the inabilility to find food to

which I was not allergic & because eating more would mean more frequent

exposures shopping. I didn't have the space ( & outgas area) for large amounts of

groceries. Any amenites, like obtaining running water, meant an exposure. I

drove thousands of miles for small comforts & the list of where I couldn't be

grew longer & longer. On rainy days I sat in my vehicle. I couldn't hang out

inside anywhere & I couldn't even go in anywhere briefly because there was no

way to outgas my clothes before getting back into my safe zone. For five years I

encouraged myself through adversities with the recollection of my dreadful prior

health experiences and an appreciation for the improvements. I recommended it

everyone who was reacting to their environment.

Last summer I was tapped out of ideas for where to spend the winter. I knew I

couldn't endure revisting the issues I had with basic necessities in the places

I had been & I had about 6 months of money left for driving around. I thoroughly

inspected towns over thousands of miles hoping for the miracle town & miracle

rescue. I still called every social service agency & I continued to tell anyone

who'd listen about the need for an community for people like me. I saw land for

sale & called the agent - lying that my money was coming from an inheritance. (

Maybe I'd find someone who'd build a community!) I found myself looking at land

& houses thousands of miles apart. The camping was rough as were the roads to

the wilderness. On one particularly rough road I exclaimed " What am I doing? ! "

What was the point I didn't have the money to buy OR rent. I was still blindly

led to continue looking. I kept returning to the one campground that was

relatively tolerable on the emptier weekdays - for running water to hand-wash

clothes & take a shower...until they told me I overstayed my camping limit in

the state. Now I had nowhere to be while I was looking for somewhere to be!

Then the miracle. I'm driving up a winding mountain road where the trees didn't

make me " high " , the plantlife wasn't so thick as to be moldy & I wasn't whacked

by the fragrance of the National Forest pit toilet chemicals I had encountered

that covered 100 square mile area! I then passed a few quant houses & was

compelled to write in my journal, " Nice, I don't have to look any further. " I

took a wrong turn & ended up in the town - that had a health food store ! with

everything I needed ! and I didn't need a mask in there, nor in the regular

grocery store, or the post office...or the FRAGRANCE-FREE HOSPITAL ! ...with a

Medicaid doctor on staff that knows what MCS is! I thought - I'm home ! The

residents were diverse & I thought if I lived here I wouldn't feel " stuck " in

some backwards small town in order to accomodate my need for an unpopulated

area.

My father died about 6 weeks later. I now had the money to buy. All that driving

& looking wasn't a waste after all. I still put in a few thousand miles more

searching. 3 1/2 months later, already in pain from the cold, I was the owner

of a house surrounded by National Forest, near the road, 6 scenic miles from

that health food store, in a town where I can breathe without turning into a

vegetable.

>

>

>

> Yes. Sometimes people DO need help. But sometimes help does not come.

> When help does not come, sometimes people have to find their boot straps and

> pull on their own.

>

> Using my sister again as an analogy. If no one had come to help her and

> she stayed in the sick marriage, her life would be miserable today.

>

> So if no one comes to help you get out of a sick building and you stay,

> will your life be miserable tomorrow?

>

> Please don't misunderstand. I am not saying that people who stay in

> moldie buildings are bad because they should get out. I am trying to help

> some. A reiteration that if no help is on the way then one needs to do it

> themselves - is the help I can offer.

>

> I would be lying to you if I said, " That okay, stay. You can't get out. "

> No. It is not okay by me. I don't want to see anymore lives ruined. I

> can't do anything to physically help you. But I can tell you that it

> concerns me to see people who stay. I worry for their safety and future.

>

> This issue has come up on this board several times over the years. It is

> ALWAYS a touchy subject.

>

> No one is judging anyone. Just sometimes it is good to reiterate the

> importance of getting out if your environment is making you and your family

> sick. As far as I am aware and just like my sister, we all only have one

> life.

[Guest guest]

It is kind of like that song " There's a hole in that bucket " .

A bridge is extreme. The choice is not a moldy abode or a bridge, with

nothing in between (if there is a choice to be found somewhere).

Are you telling me there is nowhere else that you could live based on the

income you have? What options have you explored?

Not meaning to be rude or challenging. Maybe from this board we can help

you find a solution. And if we can help you, others might be helped, too.

There have got to be people on this board that have been thru this same

thing and found a better solution, right?

Sharon

In a message dated 8/15/2010 7:17:46 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

mnpearl@... writes:

What I am saying is that when you only receive $200 a month, you have few

options. Living under a bridge would not be one of them because you

wouldn't be able to get GA if you have no permanent address. It's unlikely

anyone would hire you either.

Besides, I don't think anyone who was made sick by mold would be able to

tolerate living under a bridge. And how would a bridge be temporary when

you have no $$? Of course, I guess that wouldn't matter after a while

because if you live in a cold climate you probably would die of exposure

anyway.

Jean

[Guest guest]

,

WOW! What a great story of your journey. Your little town sounds like

paradise.

Sharon

In a message dated 8/15/2010 7:22:29 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

safersmilesdentallab@... writes:

I was reacting to everything before I hit the road. To top it off I had to

leave my house for 80 hrs a week & sit in parking lots whenever the

neighbor burned something or did laundry. Next to the door I kept a small bag

packed with a snack & hot water in a thermos-ready to grab on my way out. I

had it down to where I could get out of the house & into my vehicle within 30

seconds.

Little by little every time I had good moments I put my stuff in storage &

packed my vehicle for life on the road. After 3 days on the road I was a

new woman.

Avoiding chemicals while homeless was like living on the front lines but I

was in a " home " that made it easier to practice avoidance more

consistantly than in a stationary home. I ate very little due to the

inabilility to

find food to which I was not allergic & because eating more would mean more

frequent exposures shopping. I didn't have the space ( & outgas area) for

large amounts of groceries. Any amenites, like obtaining running water, meant

an exposure. I drove thousands of miles for small comforts & the list of

where I couldn't be grew longer & longer. On rainy days I sat in my vehicle.

I couldn't hang out inside anywhere & I couldn't even go in anywhere

briefly because there was no way to outgas my clothes before getting back into

my

safe zone. For five years I encouraged myself through adversities with the

recollection of my dreadful prior health experiences and an appreciation

for the improvements. I recommended it everyone who was reacti ng to their

environment.

Last summer I was tapped out of ideas for where to spend the winter. I

knew I couldn't endure revisting the issues I had with basic necessities in

the places I had been & I had about 6 months of money left for driving

around. I thoroughly inspected towns over thousands of miles hoping for the

miracle town & miracle rescue. I still called every social service agency & I

continued to tell anyone who'd listen about the need for an community for

people like me. I saw land for sale & called the agent - lying that my money

was coming from an inheritance. ( Maybe I'd find someone who'd build a

community!) I found myself looking at land & houses thousands of miles apart.

The camping was rough as were the roads to the wilderness. On one

particularly rough road I exclaimed " What am I doing? ! " What was the point I

didn't

have the money to buy OR rent. I was still blindly led to continue looking.

I kept returning to the one campground that was relatively to lerable on

the emptier weekdays - for running water to hand-wash clothes & take a

shower...until they told me I overstayed my camping limit in the state. Now I

had

nowhere to be while I was looking for somewhere to be!

Then the miracle. I'm driving up a winding mountain road where the trees

didn't make me " high " , the plantlife wasn't so thick as to be moldy & I

wasn't whacked by the fragrance of the National Forest pit toilet chemicals I

had encountered that covered 100 square mile area! I then passed a few quant

houses & was compelled to write in my journal, " Nice, I don't have to look

any further. " I took a wrong turn & ended up in the town - that had a

health food store ! with everything I needed ! and I didn't need a mask in

there, nor in the regular grocery store, or the post office...or the

FRAGRANCE-FREE HOSPITAL ! ...with a Medicaid doctor on staff that knows what

MCS is!

I thought - I'm home ! The residents were diverse & I thought if I lived

here I wouldn't feel " stuck " in some backwards small town in order to

accomodate my need for an unpopulated area.

My father died about 6 weeks later. I now had the money to buy. All that

driving & looking wasn't a waste after all. I still put in a few thousand

miles more searching. 3 1/2 months later, already in pain from the cold, I was

the owner of a house surrounded by National Forest, near the road, 6

scenic miles from that health food store, in a town where I can breathe without

turning into a vegetable.

Sharon Noonan Kramer

[Guest guest]

Sharon I deal with that daily now that I've been re-exposed.I keep thinking,

" ok. whats the safest way for me to move? " Do I take the chance and take the few

clothes that have been in the garage in trash bags or do i leave them behind? Do

I try to stay in the current city Im living in or do I give up and relocate with

a relative that lives 2 hours away because it would be cheaper? Do I try to take

my dog or leave her here where she's sure to stay in a cage while my g/f is at

work? If I take her how am I going to get her " clean " ? I have a million

questions running through my mind right now but because my thinking isnt as

clear as it should be I worry about making a decision and either not following

through with it correctly or making a decision that I'll regret for the rest of

my life. No one can give me the answers to these questions this is all on me and

all my decisions will be based on a brain that's not thinking clearly.

>

>

>

> Carl and Jeanine,

>

> That is a VERY important point. Brain fog from this. It makes it hard to

> focus sometimes even on little things (like remembering to buy everything

> you went to the grocery to buy, etc).

>

> Somedays it is just overwhelming to get up off the couch. I know. I

> remember. The thought of having to move, organize to move, can seem to be an

> unsurmoutable task. I fear that sometimes this situation contributes to

> people not leaving a sick environment...which causes them to get

> sicker...which makes it even harder to leave...which causes them to get

> sickers....which......

>

> Its too bad they don't have battered mold victim shelters in cities like

> they have battered women's shelters. Someplace people can go temporarily to

> get their strength back.

>

> Sharon

>

[Guest guest]

Living under a bridge: Also I read recently that a high percentage of homeless

people are subject to many serious diseases from insects, such as lice and fleas

and mice; not to mention being victims of crime.

>

> What I am saying is that when you only receive $200 a month, you have few

> options. Living under a bridge would not be one of them because you

> wouldn't be able to get GA if you have no permanent address. It's unlikely

> anyone would hire you either.

>

> Besides, I don't think anyone who was made sick by mold would be able to

> tolerate living under a bridge. And how would a bridge be temporary when

> you have no $$? Of course, I guess that wouldn't matter after a while

> because if you live in a cold climate you probably would die of exposure

anyway.

>

> Jean

>

[Guest guest]

Without an address you also cannot get FS (foodstamps),  without being homeless

you cannot get assistance before the homelessness, and everything is a catch

22....................darned if you do darned if you don't

 

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: " mnpearl@... " <mnpearl@...>

Sent: Sun, August 15, 2010 3:56:38 AM

Subject: [] Re: Self-defeating actions [WAS: What can off gas and

wh...

 

What I am saying is that when you only receive $200 a month, you have few

options. Living under a bridge would not be one of them because you

wouldn't be able to get GA if you have no permanent address. It's unlikely

anyone would hire you either.

Besides, I don't think anyone who was made sick by mold would be able to

tolerate living under a bridge. And how would a bridge be temporary when

you have no $$? Of course, I guess that wouldn't matter after a while

because if you live in a cold climate you probably would die of exposure anyway.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Sharon,

I no longer have the problems I did before. The things I mentioned are

not just from my own experience but from others as well.

I commented that no one should tell someone who is struggling with health

and financial issues that it's their fault that they are sick. I stand by

this statement.

Jean

" It is kind of like that song " There's a hole in that bucket " .

A bridge is extreme. The choice is not a moldy abode or a bridge, with

nothing in between (if there is a choice to be found somewhere).

Are you telling me there is nowhere else that you could live based on the

income you have? What options have you explored?

Not meaning to be rude or challenging. Maybe from this board we can help

you find a solution. And if we can help you, others might be helped, too.

There have got to be people on this board that have been thru this same

thing and found a better solution, right?

Sharon "

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/15/2010 4:50:01 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

mnpearl@... writes:

Sharon,

I no longer have the problems I did before. The things I mentioned are

not just from my own experience but from others as well.

I commented that no one should tell someone who is struggling with health

and financial issues that it's their fault that they are sick. I stand by

this statement.

Jean

Right. No one IS saying it is anyone's fault. I hope you don't think

that is what I was saying. There are far too many variables to say that and no

one got into this situation on purpose. Its a tough one, no doubt! And

some are tougher than others.

Sharon Noonan Kramer

[Guest guest]

Wow is right! Where is this place! So glad you found a haven.Sam

--- On Sun, 8/15/10, snk1955@... <snk1955@...> wrot

,

WOW! What a great story of your journey. Your little town sounds like

paradise.

.. I'm driving up a winding mountain road where the trees

didn't make me " high " , the plantlife wasn't so thick as to be moldy & I

wasn't whacked by the fragrance of the National Forest pit toilet chemicals I

had encountered that covered 100 square mile area! I then passed a few quant

houses & was compelled to write in my journal, " Nice, I don't have to look

any further. " I took a wrong turn & ended up in the town - that had a

health food store ! with everything I needed ! and I didn't need a mask in

there, nor in the regular grocery store, or the post office...or the

FRAGRANCE-FREE HOSPITAL ! ...with a Medicaid doctor on staff that knows what

MCS is! 

[Guest guest]

That too since there is no guarantee that when you become homeless you will get

any help either.  So now you are in a car, no FS, no clean water,  for me I

cannot even get 02 delivered to a car, it is not easy deciding what is worse.

I know big truck stops have showers you pay to use, maybe  a state park may

have

showers, then there are the exposures in these if you have MCS. 

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: barb b w <barb1283@...>

Sent: Sun, August 15, 2010 1:21:06 PM

Subject: [] Re: Self-defeating actions [WAS: What can off gas and

wh...

 

Living under a bridge: Also I read recently that a high percentage of homeless

people are subject to many serious diseases from insects, such as lice and fleas

and mice; not to mention being victims of crime.

-

[Guest guest]

,

I never put more than 5 things on any list. Too easy to talk myself out

of facing it otherwise.

Jean

Posted by: " safersmilesdentallab " _safersmilesdentallab@... _

(mailto:safersmilesdentallab@...?Subject=

Re:%20Self-defeating%20actions%20%20[WAS:%20What%20can%20off%20gas%20and%20wh...\

) _safersmilesdentallab _

(safersmilesdentallab)

Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:54 pm (PDT)

My brain issues are what I have the hardest time dealing with. Overwhelm

was my first symtom years before anything else. Multitasking was impossible.

I make catagorized lists over & over - in different colors or I'd never

get anything accomplished. Sometimes I look at lists and am too overwhelmed

to do any of it. That's when it time to catagorize again with shorter

separate lists.

[Guest guest]

,

Your story was very moving and I commend your bravery and not giving up. I am

so

happy after all that sorrow you where finally able  to  find place to call

home.

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: safersmilesdentallab <safersmilesdentallab@...>

Sent: Sun, August 15, 2010 6:22:01 AM

Subject: [] Re: Self-defeating actions [WAS: What can off gas and

wh...

 

I was reacting to everything before I hit the road. To top it off I had to leave

my house for 80 hrs a week & sit in parking lots whenever the neighbor burned

something or did laundry. Next to the door I kept a small bag packed with a

snack & hot water in a thermos-ready to grab on my way out. I had it down to

where I could get out of the house & into my vehicle within 30 seconds.

Little by little every time I had good moments I put my stuff in storage &

packed my vehicle for life on the road. After 3 days on the road I was a new

woman.

Avoiding

[Guest guest]

No, I unfortunately have the same story.  We face homelessness again every

month.   Section 8 housing will not help you without income. The list are all

now closed.  Voucher choice the same thing.  If you do not have a plan of

attack

on where you will get monies from the next month, you do not qualify this

month.  The excuses for help from aganecies who get these monies are endless.

They tell you to be homeless, then when you are they cannot help unless you are

under their roof, weather you can tolerate it or not.  It is all a game they

play withyour life, the help just never arrives.  

 

When you get your SS it is usually not enough to live, never mind enough to get

some treatment.  The new game there now is if you retire you no have to wait 2

years for medicare.   If you are disabled you have to wait 2 years for

medicare

anyways.  You need a roof to get FS cause you have to be able to cook somwhere

(for them) those are their requirements.  I would like to know in the end where

the monies go..................... we asked for help for years.   

 

 

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: " snk1955@... " <snk1955@...>

Sent: Sun, August 15, 2010 10:37:22 AM

Subject: Re: [] Re: Self-defeating actions [WAS: What can off gas

and wh...

 

It is kind of like that song " There's a hole in that bucket " .

A bridge is extreme. The choice is not a moldy abode or a bridge, with

nothing in between (if there is a choice to be found somewhere).

Are you telling me there is nowhere else that you could live based on the

income you have? What options have you explored?

Not meaning to be rude or challenging. Maybe from this board we can help

you find a solution. And if we can help you, others might be helped, too.

There have got to be people on this board that have been thru this same

thing and found a better solution, right?

Sharon

[Guest guest]

It is a great story! I was so relieved to hear how it all worked out in the end.

Love how it all worked out and near a national park. It does sound like

paradise!

Robin

>

>

>

> ,

>

> WOW! What a great story of your journey. Your little town sounds like

> paradise.

>

> Sharon

>

> In a message dated 8/15/2010 7:22:29 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

> safersmilesdentallab@... writes:

>

> I was reacting to everything before I hit the road. To top it off I had to

> leave my house for 80 hrs a week & sit in parking lots whenever the

> neighbor burned something or did laundry. Next to the door I kept a small bag

> packed with a snack & hot water in a thermos-ready to grab on my way out. I

> had it down to where I could get out of the house & into my vehicle within 30

> seconds.

> Little by little every time I had good moments I put my stuff in storage &

> packed my vehicle for life on the road. After 3 days on the road I was a

> new woman.

> Avoiding chemicals

[Guest guest]

Oh yes. That is a beautiful area of California.

In a message dated 8/15/2010 9:14:44 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

safersmilesdentallab@... writes:

Quincy CA. I am HOOOOOOOOOME.

>

> Wow is right! Where is this place! So glad you found a haven.Sam

>

> --- On Sun, 8/15/10, snk1955@... <snk1955@...> wrot

>

> ,

>

> WOW! What a great story of your journey. Your little town sounds like

>

> paradise.

>

>

> . I'm driving up a winding mountain road where the trees

>

> didn't make me " high " , the plantlife wasn't so thick as to be moldy & I

>

> wasn't whacked by the fragrance of the National Forest pit toilet

chemicals I

>

> had encountered that covered 100 square mile area! I then passed a few

quant

>

> houses & was compelled to write in my journal, " Nice, I don't have to

look

>

> any further. " I took a wrong turn & ended up in the town - that had a

>

> health food store ! with everything I needed ! and I didn't need a mask

in

>

> there, nor in the regular grocery store, or the post office...or the

>

> FRAGRANCE-FREE HOSPITAL ! ...with a Medicaid doctor on staff that knows

what MCS is!

>

Sharon Noonan Kramer

[Guest guest]

Sharon, the cheapest thing I found which also happens to of been the least

problematic was a one room attic apartment with a window unit that both heated

and cooled, all utilities paid. but I also got rent assistance from HUD/section

8 program.

everbody hated it because of all the stairs, it had it's own intrance, no nasty

smelly hallway, and was tiny. thats one way to keep smelly family members from

comeing over.

another place I did fairly well in was a older model RV that had a really good

AC unit in it. the highest the electric bill was, was 50 bucks a month. just

couldn't stay in it in the winter and it wasn't road ready, just parked on my

property. something else to consider.

[Guest guest]

I do not have the experience to back you what I am going to say here. I am

learning and sorting through all of this. I have a tendency toward OCD and to be

very fearful. I also know my symptoms are very real, and I have been very sick

and it has been very difficult for me to sort out my role in my illness..

meaning what and how to interpret, what my role is to help me get better... what

is and what is not beyond my control... where my sanity lies in all of this..

where my fear and worries can take me and do I really want or need to go there..

hard hard hard to sort all this out, esp as Carl stated you get to the point

where you dont and cant trust your gut reaction.. because for me at least there

is a lot of fear and confusion (facts) there. Add that to the masking effect,

etc...

I have been living with a lyme and babesia diagnosis for the last 3 years, CFS

the last 1-2 years. I am terrified of nature and ticks. I have been terrified

and traumatized by every symptom that I have.. the diganosis of lyme itself

(cure unknown... the most virulent, stealthy bacteria that exists) and the fact

that i have the " dreaded gene " as per Shoemaker and according to him may never

get well. Ive had a lyme doctors wife who is his patient screener turn me down

because my case is too coplicated bcecause i have this dreaded gene... telling

me that i was one of the 25% who might not get well and he has his hands full

with the other 75%. Fun.

My sister was very sick for many years. She had a near death experience and then

started healing. I wouldnt say she is 100% but she is living a productive life

and is happy. When I first was diagnosed and for more than a year, I hounded her

to get tested for lyme thinking surely she had it too and it was the sole cause

of her illness.

Her attitude was that she is well and she doesnt want to go back there again..

I didnt realize what she meant as clearly as I do now.. illness can be a place

of fear and torment, obsession, worry... for good reason, but she had made it

out of that plce and had no intention of going back for the sake of a diagnosis.

I talked with her a few days ago and we put together that when she was her

sickest, she was living in the basement of the house my parents owned at the

time. She started getting well when she moved out I think to several homes that

my parents owned (my father buys and sells real estate at times). She ended up

in a studio appt living next my parents who were taking care of her children and

that is where she got well. It was new and she had few of her original

belongings with her though I am sure she had some possibly including clothing

and papers.

She also had the NDE which had a profound impact on her I think in an

" energetic " way as well as a spiritual and mental way. She stopped fearing

death, stopped fearing her symptoms (and this was a huge one.. she would have

paralysis strike her out of the blue and if she reacted in any way emotionally,

it would last longer.. so she had to stop reacting.. she would make herself

calmly count down from 100). She started believing in her body's ability to heal

and believing it was a matter of time.,, she was healing.. it was all going to

be OK in time and it took 3 years.

I am not saying that belief healed her.. I am saying it helped her and I am not

saying belief in healing is easy because I am struggling with it but I like the

way someone in lymeland recently framed it... we ally with healing or we dont.

Whatever healing choice you make, ally with it. Ally with your path and believe

in the process even if it is one day at a time, even if it is not a " perfect "

path.. the path might very well wind as you learn more.. it doesnt have to be

set in stone to ally with it.

One thing my sister told me was that she would talk her body down. When it would

become hyper alert or sensitive (she would have extreme dysautonomia where her

BP and pulse would swing dangerously.. 50/30 to 210/160 ranges among other crazy

symptoms). She learned not to trust ERs because they didnt know how to address

and she learned to work with her body thorugh this process.. not saying dont go

to ER.

Later I was introduced to programs like amygdala retraining where you also learn

to talk your body down and realized these programs are saying the same thing she

did. Im not saying this is a cure though I have heard some people with MCS and

CFS have done well with the program.. I realize this is similar to what my

sister did (she also focused on trigger point therapy and fascia lymphs massage

to keep working the toxins out).

Im probably not going to do this justice, but I will try... Gupta claims that

the amygdala (emotional part of the brain) become hyper stimulated by a virus,

toxin, extreme stress, bacterial infection and then becomes hyperalert so much

that it will react to things it would not have reacted to in the past.. the

alert level has been raised and stuck at raised.. then you have a viscous

cycle.. exposure, symptom, interpretation by amygdala (danger!!!) chemical

reaction in the body reinforcing the amygdala.. his program works to re-train

the amygdala.

For me, I can see this at play as my sister did instinctively.. she knew to talk

her body down and if she didnt, her cycle would become worse and worse.. as with

the paralysis.. if she reacted it would get worse.. her symptoms gave her a

clear cut example of how this can play out.

This is also very similar to OCD treatment.. you back off the compulsion to the

obsession and you have to feel the anxiety until it releases but then the cycle

begins to diminish.

I am NOT saying this is all in my head or all you anyone's head. I am thinking

it makes a ton of sense that the body-mind can go into hyperalert and create a

cycle that might not have to be.

So I am trying to think of this as I plan out what we are going to do here. It

is so so easy for me to get into fight or flight and so easy to be so hard on

myself no matter what decision I make.. esp when I am so fearful that one spore

will do me in.

I realize that I have a problem sorting out fears.. the ones that I am

generating or others are generating for me and fears that are warning signs...

you know fear is an emotion that tells you to change what you are doing and is

not intended to be lived out of. You fell the alarm, you make an adjusting

reaction, you let go. Kind of hard to do when mold is everywhere. If mold is the

evil doer and the evil doer is everywhere then I am stuck in a war and

eventually (post) traumatic stress syndrome sets in.

Is this making any sense? I dont know if this applies to anyone but me, but I

know it applies to me and it will be something that I consider as I move

forward. Living with chronic illness can be hell and I dont want to make it more

of a hell than it has to be.

That said.. we are moving with dog, no clothing, bedding, furniture will go with

us. We will see frome there. My husband is stayign behind (work) and he wants to

start getting rid of what we are gettnig rid of and storing the rest. We will

most likely be getting rid of alot because we have accumulated so many things

we dont need. It will be a purging and the most important special things will go

to storage. Then we will have a proper post remediation cleaning.. something we

were never advised to do.. floors, walls, ceilings hepa vacced. Ther will be no

furniture so everying left standing wiped down well.. HVAC addressed, filters

etc..

Then I might decide to try to revisit the house. At this point I see it as my

sick house and have no desire to go back. We shall see.

I also like the idea of introducing one new (old) thing at a time and seeing how

that goes. i also see that no matter where we go there will be mold issues. We

have too much house than we can keep up with. We have too many things cluttering

our house.. not again.. I hope.

I also realize there is more to address than mold reactivity and toxins.. for me

there is potential lyme (this was a clinical diagnosis,not confirmed by a test..

which of course are very inaccurate) and there is babesia. I also have candida

to deal with, potential parasites and other gut issues as well as KPU and

methylation. I also may have a mycoplasma infection. I have moderate MCS as

well. A problem for me is figuring out what is causing what symptom. I am hoping

the new " safe-er " place will help with some masking issues. Oh.. also heavy

pesticide exposure as a child and way too many vaccines. Not yet tested for

XMRV.

What gets me is that my sister who is now doing fine could care less what she

has in her body because she is fine.. its like my husband who also has one of

shoemaker's dreaded genes.. he is fine so he could care less. It looks like so

many things can play together to create illness and there is a threshold.. some

people get slammed and others keep draining the bathtub, at least for now and

maybe for the rest of their lives.. I dont know. I just know my tub is very full

and the drain has been very clogged. I am guessing this was true for my sister

but somehow her body healed enough that she was not overwhelmed by the tub. She

said she was more hypersensitive but that went away enough that her quality of

life is not effected by it.

Robin

[Guest guest]

My brain issues are what I have the hardest time dealing with. Overwhelm was my

first symtom years before anything else. Multitasking was impossible. I make

catagorized lists over & over - in different colors or I'd never get anything

accomplished. Sometimes I look at lists and am too overwhelmed to do any of it.

That's when it time to catagorize again with shorter separate lists.

>

>

>

> Carl and Jeanine,

>

> That is a VERY important point. Brain fog from this. It makes it hard to

> focus sometimes even on little things (like remembering to buy everything

> you went to the grocery to buy, etc).

>

> Somedays it is just overwhelming to get up off the couch. I know. I

> remember. The thought of having to move, organize to move, can seem to be an

> unsurmoutable task. I fear that sometimes this situation contributes to

> people not leaving a sick environment...which causes them to get

> sicker...which makes it even harder to leave...which causes them to get

> sickers....which......

>

> Its too bad they don't have battered mold victim shelters in cities like

> they have battered women's shelters. Someplace people can go temporarily to

> get their strength back.

>

> Sharon

>