Re: When do you give up?

[Guest guest]

Hey,

From what I understand, the vast majority of remediations go well. Even

among those that do not go well, the vast majority of properties are

remediated to the point that they are able to be re-inhabited by the occupants.

The problem is not just the buildings or remediation for people on this

board. It is the fact that people on this board have become so sensitive

that a remediation that could accommodate them, in many cases, becomes darn

near impossible in a timely manner.

Over time, the remediated buildings become " settled " , making them more

tolerable to the sensitive. How long? How sensitive? Hard to say.

The point is, this is not black and white science with concrete rules that

apply the same to all people or all buildings. Collectively we are

outlayers. Individually, we are outlayers among outlayers. While it is good

to

gather info from others' experiences, you have to find your own path. No

one's body is exactly like yours. No one's belongings are exactly like

yours.

For my family, we did walk away from our house and threw out many

belonging. Whether we HAD to or not, I will never know. Maybe if we had

waited a

couple of years, it would have been just fine. But for us, to find the

answer to that question was just not worth the risk we would have had to take

to find if it was safe or not. I wasn't willing to put my daughter with CF

back into a potentially hazardous situation so I could see if my

possessions could be saved.

For us, it wasn't a matter of science or mold spores or what HAS to be

thrown away. It was simply a risk/value analysis in an equation with many

variables. We made our decisions based on our risk assessment and moved on.

For us, it was the right thing to do - even if some of our stuff we threw

out could have been saved. I don't miss my old queen size bed one bit.

But I sure would have missed my daughter if we had erred in our risk

analysis the wrong way.

With that said, several years later some of the stuff that used to really

bother me and went into storage, is now in my new house. It doesn't bother

me at all now.

Sharon

In a message dated 8/13/2010 5:53:50 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

tug_slug@... writes:

I have read countless number of times of many here (including myself) have

spent literally thousands of dollars try to remediate their house so they

wont have to move and give up their worldly belongings.

I have also read that the only way to recover from mold exposure to is to

move out of the WDB and leave everything behind. " I cant tell you the

number of horror stories i've read that the " victim " said the only way they

recovered was to move leaving everything behind but cant recall anyone saying

they were fortunate enough to salvage their home and their belongings a live

somewhat normal productive healthy lives.

When do you stop spending money and accept that no matter how much you

spend you'll never be able to clean your property or your belongings enough

for them to be safe for you?

Sharon Noonan Kramer

[Guest guest]

Well, that's a tricky tricky question because sometimes remediation works. In my

case I just threw out everything in my basement (including floor tiles and

ceiling!) and it worked. Now every year or so something new happens and I cannot

control that (for example, had a small flood in kitchen and had to throw out

some kitchen cabinets-traumatic, yes, but it worked) but my house is basically

safe. Honestly, sometimes you just cannot move. Realistically at some point you

are going to have to stay put and make it work. So I resigned to fighting mold

in my own house periodically as opposed to moving when the initial problem

happened. Am I healthier or richer or happier? Not really but that is the nature

of this disease-sucks your will to live. I just deal from here as opposed to

there.

And to answer your question-I gave up a long long time ago.

Surella

>

> I have read countless number of times of many here (including myself) have

spent literally thousands of dollars try to remediate their house so they wont

have to move and give up their worldly belongings.

>

> I have also read that the only way to recover from mold exposure to is to move

out of the WDB and leave everything behind. " I cant tell you the number of

horror stories i've read that the " victim " said the only way they recovered was

to move leaving everything behind but cant recall anyone saying they were

fortunate enough to salvage their home and their belongings a live somewhat

normal productive healthy lives.

>

> When do you stop spending money and accept that no matter how much you spend

you'll never be able to clean your property or your belongings enough for them

to be safe for you?

>

[Guest guest]

If you already reacting I suggest you stop and leave, do not spend another dime.

Spend it on a safe place to live with minimal new things. IMO.

 

If you get to the point where you are out of monies and still in the same

situation then you may join those of us who face life in a car, van etc.  While

we ,may have gotten to this point for different reasons, the end result being

the same. No monies and trapped in a bad place.

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: Tug <tug_slug@...>

Sent: Fri, August 13, 2010 7:39:52 AM

Subject: [] When do you give up?

 

I have read countless number of times of many here (including myself) have spent

literally thousands of dollars try to remediate their house so they wont have to

move and give up their worldly belongings.

I have also read that the only way to recover from mold exposure to is to move

out of the WDB and leave everything behind. " I cant tell you the number of

horror stories i've read that the " victim " said the only way they recovered was

to move leaving everything behind but cant recall anyone saying they were

fortunate enough to salvage their home and their belongings a live somewhat

normal productive healthy lives.

When do you stop spending money and accept that no matter how much you spend

you'll never be able to clean your property or your belongings enough for them

to be safe for you?

[Guest guest]

I'd like to know too. Should I buy a storage container & retrofit it or keep

working on the house in hope of a normal productive life.

>

> I have read countless number of times of many here (including myself) have

spent literally thousands of dollars try to remediate their house so they wont

have to move and give up their worldly belongings.

>

> I have also read that the only way to recover from mold exposure to is to move

out of the WDB and leave everything behind. " I cant tell you the number of

horror stories i've read that the " victim " said the only way they recovered was

to move leaving everything behind but cant recall anyone saying they were

fortunate enough to salvage their home and their belongings a live somewhat

normal productive healthy lives.

>

> When do you stop spending money and accept that no matter how much you spend

you'll never be able to clean your property or your belongings enough for them

to be safe for you?

>

[Guest guest]

Mayleen you know what bothers me most about your reply? Your exactly right,

that's exactly what I'm going to have to do. Deep down inside I know that my

time in this house is limited and I know I'm going to have to leave. Right now

mu sx's are tolerable because I decided to use my air purifier but even though

the mold problems have been taken care of the air purifier is a short term fix

to a long term problem.

>

> If you already reacting I suggest you stop and leave, do not spend another

dime.

> Spend it on a safe place to live with minimal new things. IMO.

>

>  

> If you get to the point where you are out of monies and still in the same

> situation then you may join those of us who face life in a car, van etc. 

While

> we ,may have gotten to this point for different reasons, the end result being

> the same. No monies and trapped in a bad place.

>

>

> God Bless !!

> dragonflymcs

> Mayleen

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry it is just such a bad reality.  There is really no way to sugar coat

it.  

I do say it with everyone's best interest in mind.  If it can save anyone from

life on the run in a car................never ending car ride.  

 

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: Tug <tug_slug@...>

Sent: Fri, August 13, 2010 8:20:18 PM

Subject: [] Re: When do you give up?

 

Mayleen you know what bothers me most about your reply? Your exactly right,

that's exactly what I'm going to have to do. Deep down inside I know that my

time in this house is limited and I know I'm going to have to leave. Right now

mu sx's are tolerable because I decided to use my air purifier but even though

the mold problems have been taken care of the air purifier is a short term fix

to a long term problem.

[Guest guest]

Buy a shed, a storage container, anything but put your monies where it matters

most.  To a new safe place. Where you can possibly heal.   IMHO  A safe

place is

worth more than anything you can do to that house.  If you keep putting moines

in there you might as well flush it down the toilet.  Be

safe........................

 

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: safersmilesdentallab <safersmilesdentallab@...>

Sent: Fri, August 13, 2010 8:18:59 PM

Subject: [] Re: When do you give up?

 

I'd like to know too. Should I buy a storage container & retrofit it or keep

working on the house in hope of a normal productive life.

>

> I have read countless number of times of many here (including myself) have

>spent literally thousands of dollars try to remediate their house so they wont

>have to move and give up their worldly belongings.

>

>

> I have also read that the only way to recover from mold exposure to is to move

>out of the WDB and leave everything behind. " I cant tell you the number of

>horror stories i've read that the " victim " said the only way they recovered was

>to move leaving everything behind but cant recall anyone saying they were

>fortunate enough to salvage their home and their belongings a live somewhat

>normal productive healthy lives.

>

> When do you stop spending money and accept that no matter how much you spend

>you'll never be able to clean your property or your belongings enough for them

>to be safe for you?

>

[Guest guest]

So you are saying it is impossible to ever remediate completely.

>

> Buy a shed, a storage container, anything but put your monies where it matters

> most.  To a new safe place. Where you can possibly heal.   IMHO  A safe

place is

> worth more than anything you can do to that house.  If you keep putting

moines

> in there you might as well flush it down the toilet.  Be

> safe........................

>  

>

> God Bless !!

> dragonflymcs

> Mayleen

>

[Guest guest]

When i realized I couldnt live in my WD condo I hired someone to get most of my

personal belongings and put them into a storage unit which is where they sit

today. The more I think about it the more I wonder if its a good idea. You

figure that your personal belongings are going to have to stay in storage for at

least 2 years if not longer and when you do decided to take them out how certain

can you be that your not going to react? Also, by the time you take your

belongings out you will have already replaced everything that you have in

storage and will no longer need that particular item. I realize that many here

have things that are stored that a priceless and cant be replaced, I understand

that but for those smaller items wouldn't it be just as easy and cost effective

to ask a friend to hold on to them?

[Guest guest]

, I dont think it's impossible I just think it's highly unlikely.

The previous owner of my g/f's house drilled a couple of holes in the wall not

knowing drilled into the pcv drain that comes from the shower directly above our

living room. Ever since we moved here I've constantly looked for leaks, one day

when I was in the crawl space my g/f was taking a shower when I noticed a

constantly flow of water coming from down the pcv tube. We called a plumber,

when he started ripping the wall apart he hit the mother load of mold, I became

sick within seconds and had to go to hospital where I stayed for 6 days. During

that time my g/f called a mold remediation company to clean the rest of mold and

seal the 2 x 4's. When I came home there was no doubt in my mind there was still

mold spores in the house but the mold remediation company did such a good job

containing the mold and cleaning up I wasnt effected in the least. All this took

place around the end of May and until recently I felt perfectly normal.

> >

> > Buy a shed, a storage container, anything but put your monies where it

matters

> > most.  To a new safe place. Where you can possibly heal.   IMHO  A safe

place is

> > worth more than anything you can do to that house.  If you keep putting

moines

> > in there you might as well flush it down the toilet.  Be

> > safe........................

> >  

> >

> > God Bless !!

> > dragonflymcs

> > Mayleen

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My two cents? I think it's impossible to avoid mold forever. I think one can

remediate just fine and then something will happen-a leak, a flood, and then the

mold comes back. So I think you need to find the best place you can, give it

your best shot possible and then hope that whatever happens will be something

you can deal with.

I'm feeling strangely optimistic today

> >

> > Buy a shed, a storage container, anything but put your monies where it

matters

> > most.  To a new safe place. Where you can possibly heal.   IMHO  A safe

place is

> > worth more than anything you can do to that house.  If you keep putting

moines

> > in there you might as well flush it down the toilet.  Be

> > safe........................

> >  

> >

> > God Bless !!

> > dragonflymcs

> > Mayleen

> >

>

[Guest guest]

That's what I think. At least I am in control here- not renting, & not bombarded

my neighbors dryer sheets & wood smoke.I'd be hard-pressed to find a house that

didn't have something I react to - cellulose,fragrance, particle board, bare

WOOD. Mold is worse in that it can return although some fragrance is just as

hard to remove & my reactions are just as bad. Maybe I can install removable

walls so I can inspect for mold regularly. For 8 yrs I took avoidance to the

extreme - the passed 5 living in National Forests & going hungry to avoid

exposures while shopping. Laundry & showers were a feat. I'm soooo done. When I

bought this house I reacted to the fragrance & rainy season had begun. After 10

days I finally found someone to clean the fragrance out of the bath & kitchen so

I could go in! I left the windows opened & lived in my SUV until late December

after it went down to zero. Slowly went downhill due to fragrance.

>

> My two cents? I think it's impossible to avoid mold forever. I think one can

remediate just fine and then something will happen-a leak, a flood, and then the

mold comes back. So I think you need to find the best place you can, give it

your best shot possible and then hope that whatever happens will be something

you can deal with.

> I'm feeling strangely optimistic today

[Guest guest]

Every situation is different I guess. I have no leaky pipes but I had a hotub

uphill which obviously drained onto the ground at some point before I got here.

I have mold on the outside & can see how that happened & what to replace. The

smell in the room could be from the outside. Oddly nothing is actually growing

on the insulation (which of course I will remove). It's an addition. The

original outside wall could have been just as moldy & the addition could have

been built right onto that outside wall for all I know. I'll know more when I

gut the rooms. I have it sealed off completely better than mold remediation

guidelines & with the windows opened. It has it's own entrance for repairmen.

The only time I get hit is outside if I'm in the wrong spot when the wind has a

momentary change of direction. The house is an unique shape & I reside in the

furthermost point from there... like a peninsula off the other end of the house.

I didn't know there was something to seal 2 x 4's. Gee why not seal all the

wood ! Do you know what they used ? I have to research every product & possible

non-toxic alternatives before I use anything.

>

> , I dont think it's impossible I just think it's highly unlikely.

>

> The previous owner of my g/f's house drilled a couple of holes in the wall not

knowing drilled into the pcv drain that comes from the shower directly above our

living room. Ever since we moved here I've constantly looked for leaks, one day

when I was in the crawl space my g/f was taking a shower when I noticed a

constantly flow of water coming from down the pcv tube. We called a plumber,

when he started ripping the wall apart he hit the mother load of mold, I became

sick within seconds and had to go to hospital where I stayed for 6 days. During

that time my g/f called a mold remediation company to clean the rest of mold and

seal the 2 x 4's. When I came home there was no doubt in my mind there was still

mold spores in the house but the mold remediation company did such a good job

containing the mold and cleaning up I wasnt effected in the least. All this took

place around the end of May and until recently I felt perfectly normal.

[Guest guest]

Tug,

It's important for others to understand that you have been willing

to leave a bad house and you did previously. Which I fully

supported. The question with your current house is can it be

fixed? It's a lot better now with several issues resolved but there

is still one remaining. Maybe. Still to be determined is if your

continuing reactions are from the house or something else.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

When i realized I couldnt live in my WD condo I hired someone to get

most of my personal belongings and put them into a storage unit which

is where they sit today. The more I think about it the more I wonder if its

a good idea. You figure that your personal belongings are going to have

to stay in storage for at least 2 years if not longer and when you do

decided to take them out how certain can you be that your not going to

react? Also, by the time you take your belongings out you will have

already replaced everything that you have in storage and will no longer

need that particular item. I realize that many here have things that are

stored that a priceless and cant be replaced, I understand that but for

those smaller items wouldn't it be just as easy and cost effective to ask a

friend to hold on to them?

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[Guest guest]

Carl, from January till April I have moved a total of 4 times each time getting

rid of my clothes and starting all over from scratch. I moved as often as I did

because my symptoms were so severe that there was no way I could stay where I

was at. Thats the problem Im having now, I really dont feel nearly as bad as I

did after my first mold exposure and subsequent cross contamination's if I did

I'd be out of here immediately with nothing but the clothes on my back. Im

worried that because the windows are all open that Im not nearly as symptomatic

as I would normally be, what happens when the seasons change and I dont have the

luxury of getting fresh air? You know how cold it gets here in the winter time

the last thing I want to do is have to find a safe place to live in the middle

of a snow storm

I learned a long time ago that regardless how much a person loves you no one is

going to take better care of me than me. Relationships are fleeting and as much

as I love V she could end it tomorrow and I'd have no choice but to move on with

my life.

>

> Tug,

>

> It's important for others to understand that you have been willing

> to leave a bad house and you did previously. Which I fully

> supported. The question with your current house is can it be

> fixed? It's a lot better now with several issues resolved but there

> is still one remaining. Maybe. Still to be determined is if your

> continuing reactions are from the house or something else.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

[Guest guest]

That is one reason why you become trapped.  No safe place for MCS, non-toxic,

then there is the chance you have depleted everything by the time you found out

you were ill.  Then if you have no income you cannot rent. So many variables

and

none are good.  

 Fragrance from air freshners never goes away. My throat swells up from perfume

too so I do not know how we could possibly find another place.  I did not use

that stuff in my hme, nor did I apply pesticides.  I was a user of perfume but

not air freshners , did not use stinky dryers sheets, very faint ones for a

while.  My thought then was clean smelled like clean, not perfume or fragrance,

maybe because we did not grow up using those things.  I spent ten years on a

mountain eating organic and I never knew how good I did have it growing up clean

wise, food wise. 

  

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: safersmilesdentallab <safersmilesdentallab@...>

Sent: Sun, August 15, 2010 12:39:04 AM

Subject: [] Re: When do you give up?

 

That's what I think. At least I am in control here- not renting, & not bombarded

my neighbors dryer sheets & wood smoke.I'd be hard-pressed to find a house that

didn't have something I react to - cellulose,fragrance, particle board, bare

WOOD. Mold is worse in that it can return although some fragrance is just as

hard to remove & my reactions are just as bad. Maybe I can install removable

walls so I can inspect for mold regularly. For 8 yrs I took avoidance to the

extreme - the passed 5 living in National Forests & going hungry to avoid

exposures while shopping. Laundry & showers were a feat. I'm soooo done. When I

bought this house I reacted to the fragrance & rainy season had begun. After 10

days I finally found someone to clean the fragrance out of the bath & kitchen so

I could go in! I left the windows opened & lived in my SUV until late December

after it went down to zero. Slowly went downhill due to fragrance.