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Ticking Clock- Was: Re: How would you test this mcs safe home for mold?

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It's so funny: your experiences and mine really illustrate how individual and

complex it is. The dry weather always leaves me feeling so refreshed and

physically better than humidity. And of course, the fact that the weather is dry

now--and so the mold in my place isn't constantly being fed--has helped me feel

a bit better. Not to say that I'm cured--I'm still so very inflamed, and I know

it has to do with the bacteria and etc. in the building, coupled with other

irritants--but mold's what I understand best. And there's no denying the effect

of dry weather on me. Sorry to hear you feel worse with the dryness! 

From: osisposis <jeaninem660@...>

Subject: [] Ticking Clock- Was: Re: How would you test this mcs

safe home for mold?

Date: Sunday, October 17, 2010, 9:27 PM

Some, many can recover and go on, it really depends on the level of

injury, what happens during a exposure and what happens afterwards ,varies, evan

varies over time, some healing may happen, other healing doesn't. theres a hudge

difference in levels of brain damage going on and some of it might not heal, but

thats not true for everyone.

last week

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I am saying that as far as I now, there is nothing approaching scientific proof

that mold exposure inevitably leads to death. I'm not saying that there aren't

cases here or there... that's not enough, scientifically speaking, to even

establish correlation.

My personal belief, partially based on a scientific and empirical viewpoint, is

that mold causes inflammation and that can cause a cascade of events that

eventually lead to death...but that is, again, not inevitable.

On Oct 20, 2010, at 12:59 AM, " joe " <josephsalowitz@...> wrote:

I would like to be sure that I understand what you are saying. Are you saying

that you don't believe that mold exposure can cause death? Or are you saying

that you believe that it is highly unlikely that mold exposure can cause death?

Or are you saying that " scientific principles " prevent you from linking mold

exposure to death? Or are you saying something else? And, if so, exactly what IS

the relationship between mold and death? Please clarify your position.

...............................................

>

> You cannot generalize from one case, even two cases, even three. As I recall,

Dr. Thrasher has only seen a few cases of death that were related to mold, but

the most basic scientific principles would prevent him from saying that mold

therefore causes death. I know I am speaking for him, but that's based on what I

recall him saying and what I know from my philosophy of science courses long

ago.

>

> It's healthy to be skeptical of science but let's not throw the baby out with

the bathwater. Science is all we have. The rest is guess work, personal opinion,

fallacies of logic, and magical thinking.

>

> Forms of qualitative study are valuable, but even they are fuidided by

normative practice. Intuition is a valuable guide, too, but not if that's all we

use and all we have.

>

> Look up " scientific method " and " magical thinking " for more.

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I think it is like learning photography, when trying to understand the aperture

and the shutter speed to get the perfect exposure. The aperture = how much light

am I going to let in? The shutter speed= and how long am I going to let that

amount of light stay in? I believe it is more about the shutter speed....how

long are you going to breath it in before you get over exposed?

It's tricky and therefor again ...like photography it's all 18% gray. Pray for

knowledge and God will lead you out of it.

 

I would like to be sure that I understand what you are saying. Are you saying

that you don't believe that mold exposure can cause death? Or are you saying

that you believe that it is highly unlikely that mold exposure can cause death?

Or are you saying that " scientific principles " prevent you from linking mold

exposure to death? Or are you saying something else? And, if so, exactly what IS

the relationship between mold and death? Please clarify your position.

...............................................

>

> You cannot generalize from one case, even two cases, even three. As I recall,

Dr. Thrasher has only seen a few cases of death that were related to mold, but

the most basic scientific principles would prevent him from saying that mold

therefore causes death. I know I am speaking for him, but that's based on what I

recall him saying and what I know from my philosophy of science courses long

ago.

>

> It's healthy to be skeptical of science but let's not throw the baby out with

the bathwater. Science is all we have. The rest is guess work, personal opinion,

fallacies of logic, and magical thinking.

>

> Forms of qualitative study are valuable, but even they are fuidided by

normative practice. Intuition is a valuable guide, too, but not if that's all we

use and all we have.

>

> Look up " scientific method " and " magical thinking " for more.

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,

The photography example is interesting. If I may, I'd add that

each of us as an individual is sensitive at different levels, like film

is sensitive according to its ISO number. Some are 25 and others

are 1000. The 25 can handle very bright sunlight but the 1000 will

be overwhelmed with moonlight. People equivalent to 25 can be

exposed to massive mold and not react, but once they do they

can be anywhere along the range up to the max.

To respond to Joe, I'd say that if the max ISO is 1000 then mold

causes immediate death at 999. All the other numbers make you

slightly reactive to extremely and chronically ill. But immediate (or

rapid) death has to be near the max.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

I think it is like learning photography, when trying to understand the aperture

and the shutter speed to get the perfect exposure. The aperture = how much light

am I going to let in? The shutter speed= and how long am I going to let that

amount of light stay in? I believe it is more about the shutter speed....how

long are you going to breath it in before you get over exposed?

It's tricky and therefor again ...like photography it's all 18% gray. Pray for

knowledge and God will lead you out of it.

I would like to be sure that I understand what you are saying. Are you saying

that you don't believe that mold exposure can cause death? Or are you saying

that you believe that it is highly unlikely that mold exposure can cause death?

Or are you saying that " scientific principles " prevent you from linking mold

exposure to death? Or are you saying something else? And, if so, exactly what IS

the relationship between mold and death? Please clarify your position.

...............................................

>

> You cannot generalize from one case, even two cases, even three. As I recall,

Dr. Thrasher has only seen a few cases of death that were related to mold, but

the most basic scientific principles would prevent him from saying that mold

therefore causes death. I know I am speaking for him, but that's based on what I

recall him saying and what I know from my philosophy of science courses long

ago.

>

> It's healthy to be skeptical of science but let's not throw the baby out with

the bathwater. Science is all we have. The rest is guess work, personal opinion,

fallacies of logic, and magical thinking.

>

> Forms of qualitative study are valuable, but even they are fuidided by

normative practice. Intuition is a valuable guide, too, but not if that's all we

use and all we have.

>

> Look up " scientific method " and " magical thinking " for more.

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Yes, you are right to take it and say we are like the film with an ISO. Some

film has a 100 ISO  some rolls have a 400 ISO and so forth and you need to

match the films ISO with the correct amount of light or else you will end up

with an over or under exposed photograph. I'm 46 and was a freelance

photographer before digital changed everything. I miss the dark room and true

black and white photographs. The world is just too fast now for all that to

mean much anymore. But there was a reason real photography was worth learning

about and it wasn't just about ISO, apertures, shutter speeds, and or equivalent

exposures...it was because photography was an art and art imitates life or

life imitates art, still not sure which comes first. Some how photography turned

into graphic artists who know and love photo-shop more than fixer and developer;

somewhere it crossed a very fine line through technology and who am I to ever

say it isn't art anymore? But I

can say it doesn't seem  to explain life as well but then again perhaps it

does. Maybe all the tiny atoms we are made up of being held together by some

force of energy are just the tiny pixels we see in a digital image. How do we

know for certain anything at all is even real? It could all be a big giant set

up of mere perception control. As an artist and going through what I have been

through with this toxic mold assignment, I can only know for sure one thing now

and that is God does exist and if we use our heads, try our best to

overcome our troubles and pray for guidance, he will walk you through it. No

doubt ever for those of us who have experienced this and lived through it....it

was one long nightmare and it will certainly make you a stronger person.  

From: Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...>

Subject: Re: [] Ticking Clock- Was: Re: How would you test this mcs

safe home for mold?

Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2010, 9:47 AM

 

,

The photography example is interesting. If I may, I'd add that

each of us as an individual is sensitive at different levels, like film

is sensitive according to its ISO number. Some are 25 and others

are 1000. The 25 can handle very bright sunlight but the 1000 will

be overwhelmed with moonlight. People equivalent to 25 can be

exposed to massive mold and not react, but once they do they

can be anywhere along the range up to the max.

To respond to Joe, I'd say that if the max ISO is 1000 then mold

causes immediate death at 999. All the other numbers make you

slightly reactive to extremely and chronically ill. But immediate (or

rapid) death has to be near the max.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

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Mold killed 2 members of my family. My husband committed suicide. Never would

have except for mold. My mother and grandmother were both hospitalized with

pneumonia after a botched remediation by Serve Pro on their flooded basement.

Only my grandmother came out of the hospital.

>

> I would like to be sure that I understand what you are saying. Are you saying

that you don't believe that mold exposure can cause death? Or are you saying

that you believe that it is highly unlikely that mold exposure can cause death?

Or are you saying that " scientific principles " prevent you from linking mold

exposure to death? Or are you saying something else? And, if so, exactly what IS

the relationship between mold and death? Please clarify your position.

> ..............................................

>

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