Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Yes! Actually, I do have a good suggestion for this! We use the Tropical Oasis brand liquid calcium and magnesium. I give my kids 2 tablespoons every day, and they like the way it tastes. I'd also suggest adding some vitamin C to help with constipation - will your child drink those emergenC fizzy drinks? You just empty the packet in water. It tastes pretty good. > In 2 weeks I was able to get him off of Miralax. I don't have > perfect recall -- but I think I did 500mg for several days, then > took Miralax down to 12mg (from 17-20mg), then took Miralax down to > every other day -- but stool was too firm, so took Mag up to 750mg, > then stool was too loose, cut out Miralax entirely and he was fine. > He gets on average 750-1000mg of magnesium per day. If it's a > heavy fruit day I can cut it back a little. I use magnesium citrate > most of the time, but have been been trying 250mg crushed magnesium > oxide and 500 mg citrate and that > seems to be working fine. Tried calm child (icky taste), cal-mag > fizz (ick) and kirkman's has been the best so far. I was going to > order oxypowder but I'd rather try a pill or two before I fork over > nearly $50. I'm hoping to test in a few weeks to make sure his > calcium/magnesium and potassium levels are OK. > Even though it appears that this is a high dosage --I've found > nothing that makes me worry that this is causing any harm. > BTW -- probiotics haven't made any difference that I can tell. > Enzymes might be helping too -- at least the smell is MUCH reduced. > I'm going to order No-Fenol -- I've heard that has helped some kids, > and I received several as samples and he loved the taste. I wasn't > systematic enough with the samples to see if they had any effect. > > And for the record -- not GFCF, just got tests back from enterob and > everything was negative - no gluten or casein intolerance. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Yes - vitamin C will DEFINITELY work for lots of kids. > > Yes! Actually, I do have a good suggestion for this! We use the > Tropical Oasis brand liquid calcium and magnesium. I give my kids 2 > tablespoons every day, and they like the way it tastes. I'd also > suggest adding some vitamin C to help with constipation - will your > child drink those emergenC fizzy drinks? You just empty the packet in > water. It tastes pretty good. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Yes! Actually, I do have a good suggestion for this! We use the Tropical Oasis brand liquid calcium and magnesium. I give my kids 2 tablespoons every day, and they like the way it tastes. I'd also suggest adding some vitamin C to help with constipation - will your child drink those emergenC fizzy drinks? You just empty the packet in water. It tastes pretty good. > In 2 weeks I was able to get him off of Miralax. I don't have > perfect recall -- but I think I did 500mg for several days, then > took Miralax down to 12mg (from 17-20mg), then took Miralax down to > every other day -- but stool was too firm, so took Mag up to 750mg, > then stool was too loose, cut out Miralax entirely and he was fine. > He gets on average 750-1000mg of magnesium per day. If it's a > heavy fruit day I can cut it back a little. I use magnesium citrate > most of the time, but have been been trying 250mg crushed magnesium > oxide and 500 mg citrate and that > seems to be working fine. Tried calm child (icky taste), cal-mag > fizz (ick) and kirkman's has been the best so far. I was going to > order oxypowder but I'd rather try a pill or two before I fork over > nearly $50. I'm hoping to test in a few weeks to make sure his > calcium/magnesium and potassium levels are OK. > Even though it appears that this is a high dosage --I've found > nothing that makes me worry that this is causing any harm. > BTW -- probiotics haven't made any difference that I can tell. > Enzymes might be helping too -- at least the smell is MUCH reduced. > I'm going to order No-Fenol -- I've heard that has helped some kids, > and I received several as samples and he loved the taste. I wasn't > systematic enough with the samples to see if they had any effect. > > And for the record -- not GFCF, just got tests back from enterob and > everything was negative - no gluten or casein intolerance. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Thanks for all of the replies. I neglected to mention that he also takes Vitamin C, Calcium and zinc -- trying to make sure we have the right balance. > > My son is getting wise to the magnesium added to his juice. I'm using > Kirkman's Magnesium citrate powder -- about 800-1000mg per day. It > does have a " taste " . Has anyone found anything that tastes better? > How does Oxypowder taste? > Thanks for your help! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Yes - vitamin C will DEFINITELY work for lots of kids. > > Yes! Actually, I do have a good suggestion for this! We use the > Tropical Oasis brand liquid calcium and magnesium. I give my kids 2 > tablespoons every day, and they like the way it tastes. I'd also > suggest adding some vitamin C to help with constipation - will your > child drink those emergenC fizzy drinks? You just empty the packet in > water. It tastes pretty good. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Thanks for all of the replies. I neglected to mention that he also takes Vitamin C, Calcium and zinc -- trying to make sure we have the right balance. > > My son is getting wise to the magnesium added to his juice. I'm using > Kirkman's Magnesium citrate powder -- about 800-1000mg per day. It > does have a " taste " . Has anyone found anything that tastes better? > How does Oxypowder taste? > Thanks for your help! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Are you saying the vit C and tropical oasis mag and calcium work for constipation or for language development? I was trying to find a better tasting alternative to the liquid mag. citrate for my daughter. She no longer wants to drink it. It does help her quickly and doesn't seem to come with the side effects she experienceds with lactolose and miralax after daily use. thanks for all your help karen marina3029 <philipmary@...> wrote: Yes - vitamin C will DEFINITELY work for lots of kids. > > Yes! Actually, I do have a good suggestion for this! We use the > Tropical Oasis brand liquid calcium and magnesium. I give my kids 2 > tablespoons every day, and they like the way it tastes. I'd also > suggest adding some vitamin C to help with constipation - will your > child drink those emergenC fizzy drinks? You just empty the packet in > water. It tastes pretty good. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Vitamin C and the tropical oasis mag/cal citrate will help with constipation. I haven't seen any sign that they help directly with language, though anything that helps a child feel better improves his or her learning. > > > > Yes! Actually, I do have a good suggestion for this! We use the > > Tropical Oasis brand liquid calcium and magnesium. I give my kids 2 > > tablespoons every day, and they like the way it tastes. I'd also > > suggest adding some vitamin C to help with constipation - will your > > child drink those emergenC fizzy drinks? You just empty the packet > in > > water. It tastes pretty good. > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Are you saying the vit C and tropical oasis mag and calcium work for constipation or for language development? I was trying to find a better tasting alternative to the liquid mag. citrate for my daughter. She no longer wants to drink it. It does help her quickly and doesn't seem to come with the side effects she experienceds with lactolose and miralax after daily use. thanks for all your help karen marina3029 <philipmary@...> wrote: Yes - vitamin C will DEFINITELY work for lots of kids. > > Yes! Actually, I do have a good suggestion for this! We use the > Tropical Oasis brand liquid calcium and magnesium. I give my kids 2 > tablespoons every day, and they like the way it tastes. I'd also > suggest adding some vitamin C to help with constipation - will your > child drink those emergenC fizzy drinks? You just empty the packet in > water. It tastes pretty good. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 thanks , I was hoping we were both talking about constipation still! do you know if the calcium amount in this product is an ok level for children? my daughter weighs 45 lbs. i'll look at our local Whole Foods. Thanks. maryebe <eberlein@...> wrote: Vitamin C and the tropical oasis mag/cal citrate will help with constipation. I haven't seen any sign that they help directly with language, though anything that helps a child feel better improves his or her learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Vitamin C and the tropical oasis mag/cal citrate will help with constipation. I haven't seen any sign that they help directly with language, though anything that helps a child feel better improves his or her learning. > > > > Yes! Actually, I do have a good suggestion for this! We use the > > Tropical Oasis brand liquid calcium and magnesium. I give my kids 2 > > tablespoons every day, and they like the way it tastes. I'd also > > suggest adding some vitamin C to help with constipation - will your > > child drink those emergenC fizzy drinks? You just empty the packet > in > > water. It tastes pretty good. > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 thanks , I was hoping we were both talking about constipation still! do you know if the calcium amount in this product is an ok level for children? my daughter weighs 45 lbs. i'll look at our local Whole Foods. Thanks. maryebe <eberlein@...> wrote: Vitamin C and the tropical oasis mag/cal citrate will help with constipation. I haven't seen any sign that they help directly with language, though anything that helps a child feel better improves his or her learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2006 Report Share Posted December 16, 2006 I use magnesium taurate for my boys. You can order it here _http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/en/browse/sku_detail.jsp?id=CV-1094 & source=S\ CCV-1094 & _requestid=263305 & _requestid=418856_ (http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/en/browse/sku_detail.jsp?id=CV-1094 & source=S\ CCV -1094 & _requestid=263305 & _requestid=418856) This page has really good info on magnesium. _http://www.enzymestuff.com/magnesium.htm_ (http://www.enzymestuff.com/magnesium.htm) Just a side note, always be sure to check any prescription medications, to make sure that the use of magnesium (calcium too) will not interfere. I have found quite a few, that say not to take within 2 hours of the medication. This includes some antibiotics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 We use Natural Calm, a magnesium powder you disolve in warm water and they are suppose to drink, although we syringe it to our 10 yr. old. It works great. Good luck, lundgrendianne <shakylecon@...> wrote: I'm interested in starting my sons on magnesium but wasn't sure what to try. If anyone could give me some recommendations, that would be great. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2006 Report Share Posted December 20, 2006 We use the magnesium sulfate cream from Kirkman's... > I'm interested in starting my sons on magnesium but wasn't sure what to > try. If anyone could give me some recommendations, that would be > great. Thanks > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 For my son, we use magnesium sulphate cream and calcium/magnesium liquid both from kirkman's. Doris genuine4321 <genuine4321@...> wrote: We use the magnesium sulfate cream from Kirkman's... > I'm interested in starting my sons on magnesium but wasn't sure what to > try. If anyone could give me some recommendations, that would be > great. Thanks > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 >>Recently I wanted to start giving my son supplements so the first one I started with is magnesium I gave him one pill in the morning 250 mg.By afternoon,he has very loose Bm's. this would be the magnesium. It may stop in a day or so, but you can reduce the dose too. To find a person's own person magnesium 'need', you increase the dose until you get loose stools regularly. Then reduce the dose a little. The therapeutic dose for magnesium is about 1000 mg a day. My younger son takes 600 mg a day or he gets muscle spasms and constipation. The magnesium makes those go away. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 > giving my son supplements so the first one I started with is magnesium > I gave him one pill in the morning 250 mg.By afternoon,he has very > loose Bm's.I was wondering if the Magnesium is doing this,should > I stop with them or trying cutting them 1/2.I wanted to do there > supplements because I read that b6 works well with Magnesium. Try giving the B6 with the magnesium. If there is still diarrhea, cut the dose in half. Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Hi Caroline How do you know what his magnesium levels are? Is there really an accurate test? I don't think most of us are even monitoring to that level of detail. My understanding is that following the low frequent dose protocol is safe and that Andy's advice is don't freak out and stop chelating - get on with it. I'm sorry I don't mean to sound blunt - and if I'm mistaken I hope someone will correct me. Cheers, Alison > > Hi ive been supplementing my son with magnesium for 8 months to get > ready for chelation .It had risen nicely, now after only 4 rounds of > dmsa ala im back to where i started, when i up the dose he gets loose > bowel motions, im supplementing with mag nesium citrate from > kirkmans .His level is still within normal ranges ,but just! Do i need > to stop chelation or any suggestions much appreciated > Caroline > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Since mag citrate is known to loosen the stools you could try a different form of magnesium and give more. How much is he getting? I would not stop chelating. Sheresa > > Hi ive been supplementing my son with magnesium for 8 months to get > ready for chelation .It had risen nicely, now after only 4 rounds of > dmsa ala im back to where i started, when i up the dose he gets loose > bowel motions, im supplementing with mag nesium citrate from > kirkmans .His level is still within normal ranges ,but just! Do i need > to stop chelation or any suggestions much appreciated > Caroline > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 I GET A MINERAL ANALYSIS BLOOD TEST DONE TO GIVE ME HIS CALCIUM MAGNESIUM ZINC LEVELS.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 Thanks Dede . . . I've forwarded this to a bunch of friends and family . . . excellent information! Rogene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 You are welcome, Rogene ! Love DedeStart the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 http://www.mercola.com/2004/aug/7/miracle_magnesium.htm The Miracle of Magnesium By Carolyn Dean, MD, ND Magnesium deficiency triggers or causes the following 22 conditions; the introduction of magnesium, either by a high-magnesium diet, with green drinks, or magnesium supplements, can help alleviate these conditions: Anxiety and panic attacks Asthma Blood clots Bowel disease Cystitis Depression Detoxification Diabetes, Syndrome X,and Metabolic Syndrome Fatigue Heart disease Hypertension Hypoglycemia Insomnia Kidney Disease Liver Disease Migraine Musculoskeletal conditions Nerve problems Obstetrics and Gynecology--premenstrual syndrome, dysmenorrhea (cramping pain during menses), infertility, premature contractions, preeclampsia, and eclampsia in pregnancy, lessens the risk of cerebral palsy and Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) Osteoporosis Raynaud's Syndrome Tooth decay Science and medicine have both turned their backs on magnesium. Science opts out because the scientific methodology is defined by being able to test one thing at a time ending up with one result. Science finds magnesium too difficult to corral, partly because it is responsible for the correct metabolic function of over 350 enzymes in the body. The creation of ATP (adenosine triphospate) the energy molecules of the body, the action of the heart muscle, the proper formation of bones and teeth, relaxation of blood vessels, and the promotion of proper bowel function are all under the guidance of magnesium. Why Don't We Hear More About Magnesium? Medicine has turned its back on magnesium because most of the funding for medical research now comes from drug companies. Magnesium is not a patented drug and therefore will not be studied by drug companies, except to try to disprove its action. While researching my book, "The Miracle of Magnesium," I found that doctors have been prescribing magnesium for heart disease since the 1930s. A review of seven major clinical studies showed that IV magnesium reduced the odds of death by more than half in patients suffering acute myocardial infarction (heart attack). One study, LIMIT-2, developed a protocol for giving magnesium as soon as possible after onset of the heart attack and before any other drugs. If those criteria were followed, heart muscle damage was greatly reduced, and neither hypertension nor arrhythmia developed. Magnesium and the Heart During and after a heart attack, people can suffer the following: Extension of the area of heart damage as calcium floods into the muscle Blood clotting, which blocks blood vessels in the heart muscle Decreased blood flow as blood vessels go into spasm Arrhythmia as the areas where muscle contraction in the heart originate are damaged Magnesium is able to: Dilate blood vessels Prevent spasm in the heart muscle and blood vessel walls Counteract the action of calcium, which increases spasm Help dissolve blood clots Dramatically lessen the site of injury and prevent arrhythmia Act as an antioxidant against the free radicals forming at the site of injury 1-4 One of the main reasons that heart drug digoxin becomes toxic is because there is not enough magnesium in the body. 5 A drug trial called ISIS sought to disprove the effects of magnesium. In the ISIS trial the protocol was not followed in that magnesium was not the first drug given, and often it was not given for many hours or days after a heart attack was well established, causing widespread damage and blood clotting. Yet, drug reps can dutifully tell their doctor clients that ISIS proved that magnesium is worthless for heart disease! 6 Since the LIMIT-2 and ISIS trials, another smaller trial with only 200 people who were given IV magnesium at the onset of a heart attack, experienced a 74 percent lower death rate. 7 In spite of the fact that heart drugs, mainly diuretics, have the bad habit of depleting magnesium--along with potassium and even though magnesium is absolutely required for stabilizing heart muscle activity--magnesium is not utilized properly by conventional medicine. Magnesium's Role in a Healthy Body A small group of international magnesium researchers, however, have continued, against all odds, to prove the importance of magnesium not only as a nutrient for thousands of body processes but also as a medicine to treat magnesium-depleted health conditions. Drs. Bella and Burton Altura are two hard-working magnesium heroes! They have performed laboratory research and clinical research to the tune of about 1,000 studies over the past 40 years. The Alturas personally confirmed that the 22 magnesium-related conditions, listed at the beginning of this article, have a solid basis in science. Dr. Burton Altura said that during his 40 years of research he was appalled at the lack of attention given to this life-saving nutrient. He has all but given up on conventional medicine recognizing the need for magnesium in its protocols for dozens of diseases and welcomed books such as mine to help spread the word. Without million-dollar marketing budgets that drug companies have for their latest drugs, nutrient research plods along--proving over and over again their worth but never being able to get that information out to the public. Up to 80 Percent of Americans are Magnesium-Deficient Another reason that Dr. Altura felt magnesium was not given its due is because there has been no lab test that will give an accurate reading of the magnesium status in the tissues. Only one percent of magnesium of the body is distributed in the blood, making a simple sample of magnesium in the blood highly inaccurate. That's why most doctors who rely on blood tests for magnesium and not magnesium deficiency signs and symptoms and realization that up to 80 percent of the population is deficient, will miss an important diagnosis. There's even more to the actual way magnesium works. It exists in the body either as active magnesium ions or as inactive magnesium complexes bound to proteins or other substances. A magnesium ion is a group of atoms that is missing an electron, which makes it excitable as it searches to attach to something that will replace its missing electron. Magnesium ions constitute the most physiologically active fraction of magnesium in the body; they are free to join in biochemical body processes and are not attached to other substances. 8 Most clinical laboratories only assess total "serum" magnesium, which mixes up both active and inactive types. The Alturas took it upon themselves to develop and research a method that would test specifically for magnesium ions. It came about in 1987 and is called the Blood Ionized Magnesium Test. Its accuracy has been confirmed countless times with sensitive digital imaging microscopy, atomic absorption spectroscopy and the magnesium fluorescent probe. With this test it is now possible to directly measure the levels of magnesium ions in whole blood, plasma and serum using ion-selective electrodes. 8 The Alturas have used the ionized magnesium test in hundreds of research trials on dozens of different conditions proving, for example, that the 22 conditions listed above are related to magnesium deficiency. 9-15 Unfortunately, I'm not able to tell you that the ionized magnesium test is readily available. The Alturas do ionized magnesium tests at their laboratory at SUNY in New York and the testing equipment is available through an outside manufacturer to interested labs. (I've included the Altura contact information, below.) How to Get Enough Magnesium How do I get enough magnesium is a question that I'm frequently asked. If there is enough magnesium in the soil where green leafy vegetables, nuts, and seeds are grown then we have a chance to obtain magnesium from our diet. Organic foods may have more magnesium, but only if farmers replenish their soil with magnesium-rich fertilizers. Most fertilizer used on factory farms relies heavily on nitrogen, phosphorous, and potassium to make plants grow and appear healthy. However, if magnesium and other minerals and micronutrients are not introduced the plants may look good but are not packed with the nutrition we need. Growers should be required to use top-quality fertilizers and should test their crops for the long list of nutrients we need to stay healthy. In general, to get as much magnesium as possible in the diet, eat plenty of organic leafy green vegetables, nuts and seeds every day. Adding green drinks to your menu will help you achieve a higher magnesium status. However, if you are suffering from the following symptoms you may need supplemental magnesium: muscle twitches, tics, or spasms "Charlie horse" (the muscle spasm that occurs when you stretch your legs) insomnia or restless sleep stress back pain headaches, cluster headaches, migraines stiff and aching muscles bones and joints that need continued chiropractic treatment weakness hypoglycemia diabetes nervousness hyperactivity high blood pressure osteoporosis PMS constipation angina kidney stones aging depression heart attack irregular heartbeat attention deficit disorder aggressive behavior chronic fatigue syndrome stroke anxiety confusion, muscle weakness hiccups high-strung exhaustion from exercise seizures The Calcium-to-Magnesium Ratio Supplementing with magnesium must also take into account the balance between calcium and magnesium. Finland, which, from 1973 to 1999 had the highest recorded incidence of heart attack in middle-aged men in the world, also has a high calcium-to-magnesium ratio in the diet at 4 parts calcium to 1 part magnesium. 16-17 Americans in general have a high calcium-to-magnesium ratio in their diet and consequently in their bodies; the U.S. ratio is 3.5-to-1. Our dietary emphasis on a high calcium intake without sufficient magnesium and because of the excessive emphasis on women taking high doses of calcium for osteoporosis, we are creating more imbalance between the two minerals. Some researchers predict that the American ratio of calcium to magnesium is actually approaching 6-to-1, yet, the recommended dietary ratio of calcium to magnesium in the United States is 2-to-1. Current research on the paleolithic or caveman diet shows that the ratio of calcium to magnesium in the diet that our bodies evolved to eat is 1-to-1. 18 In order to offset the deficiency magnesium induced by excess calcium and to treat the above 22 conditions, people may find it necessary to ingest one part magnesium to one part calcium in supplement form for a period of months to a year. Stabilization on a healthy diet including green drinks may be possible after that time. The most commons sources of magnesium are oxide, citrate, glycinate, and malate. People use oxide and citrate if they suffer from constipation to take advantage of magnesium's laxative effect. Glycinate seems to cause little diarrhea and is the best choice for people who already have loose stools. Magnesium malate has been promoted for people with fibromyalgia to help break up lactic acid that seems to be part of the fibromyalgia picture.Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. 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Guest guest Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 Magnesium is AWESOME! My ND put me on Magnesium Malate over a year ago. It helped tremendously with these issues that I was having: Heart palpitations (eliminated) Muscle twitches, especially at night (greatly reduced) Anxiety(greatly reduced) Depression (greatly reduced) Constipation (eliminated when I combined fiber w/mag) I don't know if this was already mentioned, but most people with candida are deficient in magnesium. This was definitely the case for me. " The major waste product of yeast cell activity is ACETALDEHYDE. Candida can multiply very quickly and after many years of growth, the buildup of acetaldehyde toxins can be overwhelming to the body tissues. The poison is transformed into ethanol and converted by the liver to alcohol. This depletes the body of magnesium and potassium which reduces cell energy. These two minerals are absolutely essential for tissue strength and integrity. " ~April Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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