Re:Geezer Research: Restitution in young versus older athletes

[Guest guest]

Okay , my question is what was the characteristics of the population that

all these stats are based on. I bet my next paycheck they were not or did not

contain many older athletes. What I want to see is a study of older athletes.

Last year I crunched a couple of disks at L-4 and 5 and I have some problems at

S-1 also. I did the epidural thing, rehab, etc. and then began lifting again

after two months. My wife asked the surgeon what my prognosis was and the

surgeon said I can't tell you because your husband is an athlete and what I know

to be the case for the average 57 year old does not apply to him. Sure we age

with time but it is not to the extent that the couch potatoes do and therein

lies the problem with studies and routines, etc. They are based on populations

that have nothing to do with us.

There are examples that abound. A 75 year old that recently ran a 3 hour

marathon. Guys older than me doing 700 lb. squats, 500+ benches and so on. I

work out twice a week on MMA with my son and his fellow competitive fighters and

hold my own but the instructor is several years older than me and puts us all to

shame. When is someone going to recognize the fact that athletes, young or old

are a different population and any studies referring to them must be performed

on them.

I think we are getting to the heart of this. No one knows us the way we know us

and we need to make our own rules and guidelines that apply to what we have

learned about ourselves. (Geezer talk is a great idea and just maybe the young

might learn a little from us on how to get to be geezers and still be training).

I hope I do not come across as conceited in any way about my abilities because

nothing could be further from the truth. Any competitive athlete has learned

more about losing than winning and how inconsistent our abilities can be. What

I want to confer is that through the grace of God, a lot of luck, good genes and

a monstrous amount of hard work and training, I am still able to do the things I

love and my age so far is just a limiting factor not a permanent block. My

greatest hindrance is to allow myself to use age as an excuse to not giving my

best effort. On the other hand I also need to understand better how to recover

from hard training and work smarter. Listening to the personal experiences and

training ideas of the seniors on this list is invaluable to me and worth much

more than all the studies in the world and I thank each and every one of you.

Eddie White

Blue Springs, MO.

[Guest guest]

Sigh. I consider the same restraints on such usage as for the open age lifters

and teens for that matter, that the WADA rule should not be breached. That is

to say, such " replacements " if not for a sheer demonstrable lack of testosterone

or other things should not be considered for a TUE (medical necessity, not

personal vanity, should be the guideline).

I think that if an athlete has a concern about not having sufficient

testosterone, they and their doctor should consider getting a " baseline " blood

test to be able to argue later that the athlete is indeed deficient and that

this is not merely their " normal " level (if it happens to be lower than

average?).

I also know of one very successful female powerlifter who actually found by

blood test she was clinically low in testosterone. She gained strength and

muscle over her long 20 plus year career despite this " deficit " and never

thought she needed to " supplement " to correct this " problem " , even as a master.

I also do not think any so called " anti aging " clinic should be permitted to

dispense such drugs to athletes and get it waived under WADA either!

The 60 yo OL lady I know was told by her doctor she could qualify to take

something to alleviate her menopausal symptoms but rejected this in the spirit

of complying with WADA, she could have applied for a TUE and likely would have

received it. She felt everyone should be in compliance, and does not regret

having taken this stance. Likewise my 60 yo friend out east who is competing

in hammer throw and her first full marathon soon.

When you choose to compete in a tested environment, you choose to voluntarily

obey the rules. You are the only one responsible and you will be the one in

public disgrace if you are found to have not abided by these rules. It's your

choice, there are non tested groups you may compete in.

All this being said, they still catch people cheating in many sports, including

PL and track, in the master divisions. The profit to the person for cheating is

not generally monetary, and you start to wonder just when some people will

consider giving their egos and bodies a rest (given the serious toll of drugs on

the system!), seeing as they aren't going to generally get that fat shoe

contract or endorsement! If nothing else, we should be mindful of the example

we give our younger athletes....!

The Phantom

aka Schaefer, CMT, CSCS, competing master and open powerlifter at age 48

Denver, Colorado, USA

-------------- Original message --------------

What worries me about geezer athletes in competition is the clear

temptation to take testosterone replacement.

Not referring to you, Ed, in particular, but I don't think this is

quite in the spirit of things. Doesn't worry me if someone does this

for private training purposes but I'm guessing that the practice is

rife in masters athletics. See a case discussed here:

http://www.masterstrack.com/blog/001101.html

Apparently, all one needs is a " therapeutic use exemption " from your

doctor and it's legal. Yeah, right.

Problem is, in some cases it will be legitimate, yet still provide an

advantage. Not sure how the drug testers get around that one.

It's not only men either: tibolone (Livial), in prescription hormone

replacement therapy should give most women a nice performance lift.

[Warning. Don't try this at home!]

Gympie, Australia

>

> Okay , my question is what was the characteristics of the

population that all these stats are based on. I bet my next paycheck

they were not or did not contain many older athletes. What I want to

see is a study of older athletes.

>

> Last year I crunched a couple of disks at L-4 and 5 and I have some

problems at S-1 also. I did the epidural thing, rehab, etc. and then

began lifting again after two months. My wife asked the surgeon what

my prognosis was and the surgeon said I can't tell you because your

husband is an athlete and what I know to be the case for the average

57 year old does not apply to him. Sure we age with time but it is

not to the extent that the couch potatoes do and therein lies the

problem with studies and routines, etc. They are based on

populations that have nothing to do with us.

>

> There are examples that abound. A 75 year old that recently ran a

3 hour marathon. Guys older than me doing 700 lb. squats, 500+

benches and so on. I work out twice a week on MMA with my son and

his fellow competitive fighters and hold my own but the instructor is

several years older than me and puts us all to shame. When is

someone going to recognize the fact that athletes, young or old are a

different population and any studies referring to them must be

performed on them.

>

> I think we are getting to the heart of this. No one knows us the

way we know us and we need to make our own rules and guidelines that

apply to what we have learned about ourselves. (Geezer talk is a

great idea and just maybe the young might learn a little from us on

how to get to be geezers and still be training).

>

> I hope I do not come across as conceited in any way about my

abilities because nothing could be further from the truth. Any

competitive athlete has learned more about losing than winning and

how inconsistent our abilities can be. What I want to confer is that

through the grace of God, a lot of luck, good genes and a monstrous

amount of hard work and training, I am still able to do the things I

love and my age so far is just a limiting factor not a permanent

block. My greatest hindrance is to allow myself to use age as an

excuse to not giving my best effort. On the other hand I also need

to understand better how to recover from hard training and work

smarter. Listening to the personal experiences and training ideas of

the seniors on this list is invaluable to me and worth much more than

all the studies in the world and I thank each and every one of you.

>

> Eddie White

> Blue Springs, MO.

>