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Re: Some Basics (Questions)

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Carl: But what about Barb's statement that " the toxins stick around. " I made a

mess of my home by bleaching the basement and then " all went bad " everywhere.

That was in 2004 and I have never returned to my home. Where do the toxins go

over time and is it possible that they are no longer present? Thanks Diane

>

> Barb,

>

> You're usually right but don't continue to focus on what kills mold,

> or whether spores die or not.

>

> If no water they don't grow. They may die but most will go

> dormant for years, decades, centuries and be revitalized by

> moisture. So remove growth and clean frequently to reduce

> accumulations of settled spores and fragments. Stop the water

> and nothing grows. You also don't need sealants with 20 to 50

> year warranties. Because the warranties are void if - are you

> ready? - the warranties are void if they get wet again. So even the

> shysters know moisture is the key, which is why they void their

> own warranty.

>

> FIRST FACT: You don't need to kill mold.

>

> SECOND FACT: You don't need to kill mold.

>

> THIRD FACT: You don't need to kill mold.

>

> FOURTH FACT: It's not just mold. It's the damp filth.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

>

> -----

> Mold spores: If they don't get food and water they die. Their 'toxins' stick

> around. That might be what is confusing to you.

>

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Hi Carl,

 

You have the patience of a saint. But, if I have to keep reading your constant

reminders, to our newer group members, that " killing mold " is a waste of time,

and that " removal of mold, or removal of the sufferer from the mold " is the only

effective way to stop the suffering, I WILL LOSE MY MIND (or what little of my

mind that I have left).

 

K.C. and Barb absolutely must add your repeatedly stated truism to the " Home

Page " of the Sickbuildings group, so that every new member sees this

information, upon joining our group. I am copying this posting directly to K.C.

and Barb, who must ALSO be losing their minds, at the task of monitoring and

editing the same pointless " killing " postings, over and over again, through the

years.

 

I also suggest that the " welcoming " email that the group sends out to all new

members, upon their joining, ALSO include the fact that " mold killing " postings

will not be accepted, due to the " pointless " nature of such questions.

 

I can understand where the tendency to frame the mold question as a " killing "

question, comes from. It's those idiotic T.V. commercials of a housewife

" dancing " around her home, spraying some " germ killer " into the air, or on her

kitchen counter, and smelling the air, afterwards, with an expression of divine

bliss on her face.

 

Please, K.C., Barb, and Carl, I love you all dearly, but please stick the " no

killing " info here: , and

not in my face 50 times a month. 

 

Thank You, Joe

......................................................................... 

 

In

" Carl E. Grimes " grimes@...  wrote:

Barb,

You're usually right but don't continue to focus on what kills mold,

or whether spores die or not.

If no water they don't grow. They may die but most will go

dormant for years, decades, centuries and be revitalized by

moisture. So remove growth and clean frequently to reduce

accumulations of settled spores and fragments. Stop the water

and nothing grows. You also don't need sealants with 20 to 50

year warranties. Because the warranties are void if - are you

ready? - the warranties are void if they get wet again. So even the

shysters know moisture is the key, which is why they void their

own warranty.

FIRST FACT: You don't need to kill mold.

SECOND FACT: You don't need to kill mold.

THIRD FACT: You don't need to kill mold.

FOURTH FACT: It's not just mold. It's the damp filth.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

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I think that istead of makeing a list and calling them facts, it would be better

to state that they are opinions based on experiences of the group. if we had

some way to add to it in a ongoing fasion, when a good question is asked and

gets a good answer and this is a question that is asked over and over again, we

dont have to keep repeating ourselfs.

if facts are known, we can put it in a facts colom.

I also think it's a good idea to have a general questionaire

asking the basics of ones illness, like were they ill from a WDB or some other

chemical exposure. when people talk about their experience

and whats helped them and whats not, if they were ill by some other type of

exposure, that can be a whole other avenue than people sick from WDB's.

>

> Also, it seems to me that such lists do exist and they are called books. ;)

> Meaning that 1) sometimes facts are not facts but to the person espousing

them; as I said in my response to Carl, foundational texts on healthy homes

recommend 4-6 mil ply, so his fact is in direct dispute with facts provided by

other, perhaps more well known institutions (HHI). If a list is going to be THE

definitive guide on these facts, to be credible and definitive, it has to

explain why these other " facts " are wrong, which takes a book-length work to do

2) questions beget more questions; if the goal is to eliminate repetitive

discussion, then good luck with that. :) For instance, you can't address as

complex a topic as to WHY the goal is to remove

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Carl, I should leave the facts to you and the other pros. Thanks

>

> Barb,

>

> You're usually right but don't continue to focus on what kills mold,

> or whether spores die or not.

>

> If no water they don't grow. They may die but most will go

> dormant for years, decades, centuries and be revitalized by

> moisture. So remove growth and clean frequently to reduce

> accumulations of settled spores and fragments. Stop the water

> and nothing grows. You also don't need sealants with 20 to 50

> year warranties. Because the warranties are void if - are you

> ready? - the warranties are void if they get wet again. So even the

> shysters know moisture is the key, which is why they void their

> own warranty.

>

> FIRST FACT: You don't need to kill mold.

>

> SECOND FACT: You don't need to kill mold.

>

> THIRD FACT: You don't need to kill mold.

>

> FOURTH FACT: It's not just mold. It's the damp filth.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

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There are a number of new members and so this week has going over some old

information. Anyway, as far as the killing went, I was answering question from

someone that was concerned that workmen were leaving windows opened, or building

was open while they worked and letting outdoor mold inside, concerned about how

to get it out, not a mold colony growing in house, so I said essentially not to

worry about it, that just good housekeeping would take care of it, it wouldn't

have any  place to grow, and then I did say it would 'die' from no food , which

as Carl pointed out was not accurate.  I didn't know how long spores can live

but gest of post was not that she had mold colony and whether or not to kill it

or remove it, which is usual point of this issue.  So I learned something new,

mold spores last and last and last.  I just didn't think she should be concerned

about the outdoor air inside of home while men were working. Just regular

housekeeping should take care of that, along with general dirt and dust from

outdoors.  

From: Joe Salowitz <josephsalowitz@...>

Subject: Re: Some Basics (Questions)

" " < >

Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2010, 3:08 PM

Hi Carl,

 

You have the patience of a saint. But, if I have to keep reading your constant

reminders, to our newer group members, that " killing mold " is a waste of time,

and that " removal of mold, or removal of the sufferer from the mold " is the only

effective way to stop the suffering, I WILL LOSE MY MIND (or what little of my

mind that I have left).

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HI,

I just always assumed that opening all the windows, in the absence of

some toxic spill nearby or something, was a healthy thing, to change out

the stale indoor air and replace it with fresh outdoor air, I thought

one of the reasons there are more and more is the energy

efficiency/tightness of the buidings now adays, they don't breath, HAVE

I GOT IT ALL WRONG?

thanks, sue

I just

>didn't think she should be concerned about the outdoor air inside of

>home while men were working. Just regular housekeeping should take care

>of that, along with general dirt and dust from outdoors.  

>

>

>From: Joe Salowitz <josephsalowitz@...>

>Subject: Re: Some Basics (Questions)

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Very well said, Joe! Believe me I'd rather not have to keep

repeating. However, in the past when I make reference to

previous posts or suggest a search the archives I'm " gently "

reminded that there are always new members and I should

respond with them in mind.

Choosing the best or most effective action is kind of like how we

all have our own personal definition of what a " fact " is. Without

some sort of common agreement about meaning and without a

fundamental basis for deciding what or how to trust information,

we will all keep chasing our tail. After a few rounds of healthy

debate we always lose track of our own tail and start chasing

others thinking its ours. That's worse than circular reasoning. It's

not reasoning at all. And I obviously don't have the answer for

this.

Home page! Excellent suggestion.

There are survey web sites for free. SurveyMonkey I think is. We

could post " facts " and let everyone vote on its credibility, or

truthiness (as Stehpen Colbert calls it).

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

Hi Carl,

You have the patience of a saint. But, if I have to keep reading your

constant reminders, to our newer group members, that " killing mold " is

a waste of time, and that " removal of mold, or removal of the sufferer

from the mold " is the only effective way to stop the suffering, I WILL

LOSE MY MIND (or what little of my mind that I have left).

K.C. and Barb absolutely must add your repeatedly stated truism to the

" Home Page " of the Sickbuildings group, so that every new member sees

this information, upon joining our group. I am copying this posting

directly to K.C. and Barb, who must ALSO be losing their minds, at the

task of monitoring and editing the same pointless " killing " postings, over

and over again, through the years.

I also suggest that the " welcoming " email that the group sends out to all

new members, upon their joining, ALSO include the fact that " mold

killing " postings will not be accepted, due to the " pointless " nature of

such questions.

I can understand where the tendency to frame the mold question as a

" killing " question, comes from. It's those idiotic T.V. commercials of a

housewife " dancing " around her home, spraying some " germ killer " into

the air, or on her kitchen counter, and smelling the air, afterwards, with

an expression of divine bliss on her face.

Please, K.C., Barb, and Carl, I love you all dearly, but please stick the " no

killing " infohere:

/, and not in my

face 50 times a month.

Thank You, Joe

.........................................................................

In

" Carl E. Grimes " grimes@...:

Barb,

You're usually right but don't continue to focus on what kills mold,

or whether spores die or not.

If no water they don't grow. They may die but most will go

dormant for years, decades, centuries and be revitalized by

moisture. So remove growth and clean frequently to reduce

accumulations of settled spores and fragments. Stop the water

and nothing grows. You also don't need sealants with 20 to 50

year warranties. Because the warranties are void if - are you

ready? - the warranties are void if they get wet again. So even the

shysters know moisture is the key, which is why they void their

own warranty.

FIRST FACT: You don't need to kill mold.

SECOND FACT: You don't need to kill mold.

THIRD FACT: You don't need to kill mold.

FOURTH FACT: It's not just mold. It's the damp filth.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

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I'd like to say that often times, new members and old are in a panic and

don't have the energy to search the archives, they just want to ask

their specific question and get an answer..... sue v.

>Very well said, Joe! Believe me I'd rather not have to keep

>repeating. However, in the past when I make reference to

>

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No, Sue. You've got it right.

However, if I'm allergic to grass pollen and it is grass pollen

season then opening the windows will increase my exposure. But

that doesn't mean I can't or shouldn't open the window. I'll do

what I damn will please! And take the consequences of my action

or inaction. And it doesn't mean I have to keep them closed all

year.

I'm slowly beginning to understand that one of the difficulties here

lately is we are trying to find absolute answers so we can remove

the uncertainty. But uncertaintly is certain. (Is that a " fact? " )

We have to each find our own road map for our situation knowing

full well no map is perfect. We do the best we can with what we

have.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

HI,

I just always assumed that opening all the windows, in the absence of

some toxic spill nearby or something, was a healthy thing, to change out

the stale indoor air and replace it with fresh outdoor air, I thought

one of the reasons there are more and more is the energy

efficiency/tightness of the buidings now adays, they don't breath, HAVE

I GOT IT ALL WRONG?

thanks, sue

I just

>didn't think she should be concerned about the outdoor air inside of

>home while men were working. Just regular housekeeping should take

care

>of that, along with general dirt and dust from outdoors.

>--- On Wed, 8/18/10, Joe Salowitz <josephsalowitz@...>

wrote:

>

>From: Joe Salowitz <josephsalowitz@...>

>Subject: Re: Some Basics (Questions)

----------

The following section of this message contains a file attachment

prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format.

If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any other MIME-compliant system,

you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.

If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance.

---- File information -----------

File: DEFAULT.BMP

Date: 16 Jun 2009, 0:10

Size: 358 bytes.

Type: Unknown

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Hi Carl,

of course uncertainty is a fact & we each have to navigate down our own

individual uncertain path. I was really asking the question relative to

molds, whether even if there is outside mold, we shouldn't be opening

the windows and changing out the air????

BTW, I used to keep the windows all shut closed in my SF house during

spring pollen season, it didn't help w/my hay fever at all, 1st off

those old SF houses aren't " tight " and 2ndly it probably just reduced

the indoor air quality due to the hidden mold problems, formaldehyde

soaked insulation, etc...

sue

>No, Sue. You've got it right.

>

>However, if I'm allergic to grass pollen and it is grass pollen

>season then opening the windows will increase my exposure. But

>that doesn't mean I can't or shouldn't open the window. I'll do

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Joe and Carl I agree but they only allow so many characters (# & letters) on the

home page and welcome letter. They are both at there limit.

KC

>

> Very well said, Joe! Believe me I'd rather not have to keep

> repeating. However, in the past when I make reference to

> previous posts or suggest a search the archives I'm " gently "

> reminded that there are always new members and I should

> respond with them in mind.

>

> Choosing the best or most effective action is kind of like how we

> all have our own personal definition of what a " fact " is. Without

> some sort of common agreement about meaning and without a

> fundamental basis for deciding what or how to trust information,

> we will all keep chasing our tail. After a few rounds of healthy

> debate we always lose track of our own tail and start chasing

> others thinking its ours. That's worse than circular reasoning. It's

> not reasoning at all. And I obviously don't have the answer for

> this.

>

> Home page! Excellent suggestion.

>

> There are survey web sites for free. SurveyMonkey I think is. We

> could post " facts " and let everyone vote on its credibility, or

> truthiness (as Stehpen Colbert calls it).

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

> Hi Carl,

>

>

> You have the patience of a saint. But, if I have to keep reading your

> constant reminders, to our newer group members, that " killing mold " is

> a waste of time, and that " removal of mold, or removal of the sufferer

> from the mold " is the only effective way to stop the suffering, I WILL

> LOSE MY MIND (or what little of my mind that I have left).

>

> K.C. and Barb absolutely must add your repeatedly stated truism to the

> " Home Page " of the Sickbuildings group, so that every new member sees

> this information, upon joining our group. I am copying this posting

> directly to K.C. and Barb, who must ALSO be losing their minds, at the

> task of monitoring and editing the same pointless " killing " postings, over

> and over again, through the years.

>

> I also suggest that the " welcoming " email that the group sends out to all

> new members, upon their joining, ALSO include the fact that " mold

> killing " postings will not be accepted, due to the " pointless " nature of

> such questions.

>

> I can understand where the tendency to frame the mold question as a

> " killing " question, comes from. It's those idiotic T.V. commercials of a

> housewife " dancing " around her home, spraying some " germ killer " into

> the air, or on her kitchen counter, and smelling the air, afterwards, with

> an expression of divine bliss on her face.

>

> Please, K.C., Barb, and Carl, I love you all dearly, but please stick the " no

> killing " infohere:

> /, and not in my

> face 50 times a month.

>

> Thank You, Joe

> ........................................................................

>

> In

> " Carl E. Grimes " grimes@...:

>

> Barb,

>

> You're usually right but don't continue to focus on what kills mold,

> or whether spores die or not.

>

> If no water they don't grow. They may die but most will go

> dormant for years, decades, centuries and be revitalized by

> moisture. So remove growth and clean frequently to reduce

> accumulations of settled spores and fragments. Stop the water

> and nothing grows. You also don't need sealants with 20 to 50

> year warranties. Because the warranties are void if - are you

> ready? - the warranties are void if they get wet again. So even the

> shysters know moisture is the key, which is why they void their

> own warranty.

>

> FIRST FACT: You don't need to kill mold.

>

> SECOND FACT: You don't need to kill mold.

>

> THIRD FACT: You don't need to kill mold.

>

> FOURTH FACT: It's not just mold. It's the damp filth.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

>

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No I don;t think so, but I get the keeping the windows closed too. My basement

was remediated (successfully so far) but everyone said I should keep the windows

down there closed all the time to minimize the moisture and humidity coming in.

This is an excellent idea for the basement because it's gutted and no one needs

any fresh air there anymore. But upstairs is a different story. If you are like

me, indoor environmental pollution is a bad thing and fresh air is the only

thing I need sometimes to feel better. However, some people get sick from

outdoor pollution-so it;s a personal call. But the windows closed is a good

idea.

> >

> >From: Joe Salowitz <josephsalowitz@...>

> >Subject: Re: Some Basics (Questions)

>

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Re: Late response to list of facts. Problem is agreeing on what are facts.

Will consider this with help of experts but for now best thing new members can

do is get their hands on one of books of members, who keep up with WDB issues,

such as Carl or Jeff, that both have books on subject. Dr Rae has a building

safe housing book. They can be purchased at Amazon.com and some are available at

your library.

>

> It would be very helpful to send out with new membership. And when people get

off track, the list could be referred to. There is something about having a

document to keep referring back to. Im trying to keep info filed away in a

private blog I use to file tings away in, but cant oreganize it well right now..

info is pinging all over my brain esp when we are trying to get going here.

>

> I want to thank you all for being so patient and helpful. I am very stressed

as we are getting closer to moving out, getting rid of so many things, all the

emotions and decisions.

>

> Thank you so much for all of your help and understanding.

>

> Robin

>

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I'm a little leary at writing this as I don't want to fan any flames any further

and am only now starting to get up to speed on the threads of late. So, please

if I'm off-base here, please take it with a grain of salt-- or just dismiss it

all-together.

From my own personal experience as a member over the past few years, the

continuing threads of explanation of the difference between killing mold and

removing it among other basic issues, has been an increasing education that my

slow mind has taken alot of time to wrap my brain around (despite spending alot

of time reading and studying). I think some of us who are cognitively impaired

may have the same issues of not being able to digest simple thoughts that to

others are immediately understood--- or that others on the list who are equally

impaired have been able somehow to so dedicate themselves that they do finally

get it.. I agree that a " new members section " , would be a great benefit and

should someone take it up to help KC and Barb put it together that it will

minimize these kind of questions. But we may still see them from time to time.

Just due to the fact that newbies may not realize that they haven't yet fully

got it.

Personally, I've not always been aware that I still wasn't getting it. The proof

came from the mostly thoughtful replies I got that pointed out that I was

stating things incorrectly or not getting the meaning. That has been so even up

to the present. Oddly enough after all this time it wasn't until quite recently

that I finally have understood this very subject and that was by mostly

monitoring the questions that came up from time to time. I'm embarrassed by my

slowness and again have worked hard to learn.

I don't know if I've made a wick of sense. I'm still not working on all

cylindars this week. So, if I've jumped in w/o knowing the full story or am not

making sense; just delete it.

Which btw is what I do when at times I see posts that I might be familair with

as at times I'm so weak that I can't read everything. Might be a possible

solution for those who are exhausted by the same questions that even after a new

member page is created, might still come up.

Best to all,

Sam

>

> Very well said, Joe! Believe me I'd rather not have to keep

> repeating. However, in the past when I make reference to

> previous posts or suggest a search the archives I'm " gently "

> reminded that there are always new members and I should

> respond with them in mind.

>

>

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Please do not beat up on yourself or fell bad in any way shape or form and dont

let anyone beat up on you.

I was still haveing a very hard time when I first came here several years ago,

at one point some told me I need to learn how to spell, they didn't understand

how badly I had be damaged in my WDB exposure.

we had a few words of the group and we later became friends.

this is what it's all about.

I can say that it took a while for me to start getting where I could soak much

in, I just kept pushing myself and reading things over and over. yes it was very

hard to read much and hardier to write much. hang in there.

I remember saying this several times, all I can do is what I can do.

I still do sometimes.

and yes, sometimes us older ones forget or want to forget what we went through

in the beganing,begining, what ever.

please dont worry about spelling or anything else and dont fell bad about any of

it, theres no reason why you should.

>

> I'm a little leary at writing this as I don't want to fan any flames any

further and am only now starting to get up to speed on the threads of late. So,

please if I'm off-base here, please take it with a grain of salt-- or just

dismiss it all-together.

>

> From my own personal experience as a member over the past few years, the

continuing threads of explanation of the difference between killing mold and

removing it

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Thanks for the referrals to books.  However, I thought that Mold Warriors was

" the bible, " and now am hearing that it's outdated.  Is there a really good

book

that gives tips on living with multiple chemical sensitivity and navigating

life

after exposure to VOCs, neurotoxins, etc?  (One that acknowledges that not all

folks will respond in the same way?)   I know there are books out there, but

when I read current research, the findings fly in the very face of the other. 

For example, I worry about these " tests " that everyone should take.  Given our

unique sensitivities and reactions to exposure, why would ALL people who have

had exposure present with the same lab tests?  I worry that " movers and

shakers "

in this area are attempting to standardize diagnoses when it is the very unique

nature of sufferers' systems that has prevented traditional medicine from prior

diagnoses and effective treatment.  I read on this site, for example, about

someone taking a test that is recommended, someone who is clearly suffering from

exposure of some kind.  I can only imagine how devastating it must be to save

the money for an acclaimed, new test, only to have it say that the person is

" negative " for neurotoxins.  This doesn't necessarily mean, does it, that

he/she

hasn't been exposed, but means, instead, that his/her body has responded in a

different way from some other folks who have been tested.  Again, although I

understand the need to find a substantive, accepted diagnostic test to prove

the

existence of this illness/reaction, I worry about the consequences of

alternative medicine treating all sufferers the same.  What do folks do who,

after years of failed attempts by established providers to label their set of

symptoms with a category or special insurance code, now look to a new test,

now embraced by advocates.  Where do they turn if, after finding the funds to

be

tested and obtaining the results, they don't fit this category either?  I just

can see a backlash of possibilities and worry.  If they are " negative " for

exposure on a test supported by advocates, where do they go for help?  Just

thinking out loud here...and a bit worried about staunchly advocating one set of

criteria that will PROVE exposure to those who have no understanding of it to

begin with.  There are always those of us who don't fit the mold, and, sadly, I

fear that those are the very folks who come to this site seeking help and

understanding.  We don't fit into neat, tidy, linear categories, those of us

who

have chronic pain, autoimmune reactions, and sensitive systems.  If the

advocates in the field publish and recommend a

definitive testing protocol and

widely embrace these as testimony/evidence

for insurers/employers/courtrooms--without a caveat that these don't

necessarily

identify all exposures in the same way, what becomes of those who have been

exposed and don't line up with the same symptoms/immune system responses? 

Anyone else worried about this, or am I just getting paranoid? 

sally

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If people expect everyone to get this right away and then not to ask questions

*or question* or need time to process, they are nuts. This is not the military.

and to get all upset about the dreaded THIEVES oil or any other antifungal

talk.. please. I know an entire list of extremely smart ladies of autistic kids

with lyme who re currently diffusing thieves for mold control. I would never

dismiss them because i learn to much for them and respect them too much. But Im

going to tell them the POV of this list.

Robin (new person, evil-doer questioner)

>

>> From my own personal experience as a member over the past few years, the

continuing threads of explanation of the difference between killing mold and

removing it among other basic issues, has been an increasing education that my

slow mind has taken alot of time to wrap my brain around (despite spending alot

of time reading and studying). I think some of us who are cognitively impaired

may have the same issues of not being able to digest simple thoughts that to

others are immediately understood--- or that others on the list who are equally

impaired have been able somehow to so dedicate themselves that they do finally

get it.. I agree that a " new members section " , would be a great benefit and

should someone take it up to help KC and Barb put it together that it will

minimize these kind of questions. But we may still see them from time to time.

Just due to the fact that newbies may not realize that they haven't yet fully

got it.

>

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Robin, would you Please calm down, do you understand that your stress level is

affecting me?

this is a group for mold injured people, I dont care what you learned in another

group, you just sent me a email about going to the extreme reactors group and

about how you are being told about mycotoxins offgassing and learning so much

there and learning about cross contamination and you are doing the exact

oppisite and thinking the exact oppisite of what some experts told you right

here.

MYCOTOXINS DO NOT OFFGAS!

now what other people do or dont do in others groups is their bussiness, dont

even think of sending anyone to this group with a chip on their shoulders over

such a stupied thing as weither THIEVES OIL works or not. POINT IS, YOU WANT TO

BELIEVE IN IT AND USE IT, YOU GO FOR IT, but dont even think about sending

people here from some other group to try to prove a point that really aint even

worth the effort. who cares, use it dont use it. what ever trips your trigger.

this is trivial.

and I well remind you again what I told you with your first email, I dont like

getting email from group members, it's not to be rude, I just have things set up

the way I need do and I fell that anything that can be said in a email can be

said right here, and it's better in that you get other opinions, now more than

ever, I dont want group members sending me emails unless it something important.

>

> If people expect everyone to get this right away and then not to ask questions

*or question* or need time to process, they are nuts. This is not the military.

>

> and to get all upset about the dreaded THIEVES oil or any other antifungal

talk.. please. I know an entire list of extremely smart ladies of autistic kids

with lyme who re currently diffusing thieves for mold control. I would never

dismiss them because i learn to much for them and respect them too much. But Im

going to tell them the POV of this list.

>

> Robin (

>

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What I don't understand is what is wrong with doing BOTH..... killing the

mold AND removing it! Just think, you could actually remove dead mold

spores via your normal cleaning instead of dormant of live ones to go on

living in our environment. If Thieves or some of essential oil or natural

anti-fungal kills the mold, yippee!!!! Then just get it out with your

normal cleaning!

I know of so many testimonies of health restored and mold diminished, that

this process should not be refuted or taken lightly.

And personally, common sense tells me that both of these would be better

than just one.

Karla

berger10@...

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 5:43 PM, listspub <listspub@...> wrote:

>

>

> If people expect everyone to get this right away and then not to ask

> questions *or question* or need time to process, they are nuts. This is not

> the military.

>

> and to get all upset about the dreaded THIEVES oil or any other antifungal

> talk.. please. I know an entire list of extremely smart ladies of autistic

> kids with lyme who re currently diffusing thieves for mold control. I would

> never dismiss them because i learn to much for them and respect them too

> much. But Im going to tell them the POV of this list.

>

> Robin (new person, evil-doer questioner)

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the point is that if you remove the mold there is no mold.

if you want to spend money on things regardless of weither they work or not, are

needed or not, than go right ahead.

you use these things, either or both but dont remove the mold and you will still

be getting exposed to mold thats dead and when it's dead it still is harmful and

when it's dead it fragments and the tinyer

the fragment the deeper into the lungs they go.

if you dont remove the most theres no sence in even killing it.

>

> >

> >

> > If people expect everyone to get this right away and then not to ask

> > questions *or question* or need time to process, they are nuts. This is not

> > the military.

> >

> > and to get all upset about the dreaded THIEVES oil or any other antifungal

> > talk.. please. I know an entire list of extremely smart ladies of autistic

> > kids with lyme who re currently diffusing thieves for mold control. I would

> > never dismiss them because i learn to much for them and respect them too

> > much. But Im going to tell them the POV of this list.

> >

> > Robin (new person, evil-doer questioner)

>

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Ive learned that the only way Im going to recover is to get out of this sick

house, leave everything behind, find a safe place to live and start all over.

It's expensive, frustrating and depressing but to think I can recover while

living here is insane.

I'll bet I've talked to over 100 people since my first exposure and 90% of them

have just walked away leaving everything behind. I realize not everyone can just

give up and walk away but in reality what choice do you have, without your

health you have nothing?

Ive gotten rid of my possibly cross contaminated camper shell now if I need to

move some cheap furniture into my new apartment I can do so without having to

worry about cross contamination

My relationship is pretty much over, in reality I saw this coming a long time

ago I just thank God I prepared myself for it.

>

> If people expect everyone to get this right away and then not to ask questions

*or question* or need time to process, they are nuts. This is not the military.

>

> and to get all upset about the dreaded THIEVES oil or any other antifungal

talk.. please. I know an entire list of extremely smart ladies of autistic kids

with lyme who re currently diffusing thieves for mold control. I would never

dismiss them because i learn to much for them and respect them too much. But Im

going to tell them the POV of this list.

>

> Robin (new person, evil-doer questioner)

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This is ridiculous. The two lists and the fighting and the jumping on new folks

for asking the same questions over and over is what is wrong.

I did just join the extreme list to ask questions. I have a mind. I dont see

being afraid of information unless one is not convinced their info is right..

and if thats the case.. I would like to know.

I am not using thieves. I was referring to people (including me) bringing it up

(and other antifungals) and then others yelling at them for doing it.

I get the not killing mold. It will most likely cause a dispersal of mycotoxins

whether they be particles or gasses.. which seems to be a huge point of

contention which then leads to the cross contamination scare which is rightly or

wrongly causing people to become quite fearful... even me.... and it seems

angrily divided (as the two groups and the dynamics indicate).

The question is already in my mind and was from the beginning since an extreme

responder actually clued me into mold being a problem.

Im reading a paper that says they are soluable and they do separate from the

spore. ??

I think people need to back up their facts with research or threads of common

sense.

Im not accepting that mycotoxins are only particles and Im not accepting they

gas out just because someone tells me that.

I also went to a MCS board to ask questions about furniture and guess what? I

got the most scary scenerios becasue the people speaking up are the ones who are

suffering the most.

I wish people would allow each other their opinions, facts.. whatever. And I

appreciate research and reasonable explanations when it is lacking.

This is messed up and the discord is making me sicker than the scary

opinions/facts.

Robin

>

> Robin, would you Please calm down, do you understand that your stress level is

affecting me?

> this is a group for mold injured people, I dont care what you learned in

another group, you just sent me a email about going to the extreme reactors

group and about how you are being told about mycotoxins offgassing and learning

so much there and learning about cross contamination and you are doing the exact

oppisite and thinking the exact oppisite of what some experts told you right

here.

> MYCOTOXINS DO NOT OFFGAS!

> now what other people do or dont do in others groups is their bussiness, dont

even think of sending anyone to this group with a chip on their shoulders over

such a stupied thing as weither THIEVES OIL works or not. POINT IS, YOU WANT TO

BELIEVE IN IT AND USE IT, YOU GO FOR IT, but dont even think about sending

people here from some other group to try to prove a point that really aint even

worth the effort. who cares, use it dont use it. what ever trips your trigger.

> this is trivial.

> and I well remind you again what I told you with your first email, I dont like

getting email from group members, it's not to be rude, I just have things set up

the way I need do and I fell that anything that can be said in a email can be

said right here, and it's better in that you get other opinions, now more than

ever, I dont want group members sending me emails unless it something important.

>

>

>

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Killing small amts of mold should do no harm but killing large amts of mold, say

mold colonies just turns the mold/dead mold into fragments that are more able to

be inhaled and go deeper into the lungs where they can get into blood stream,

too small a particle to be filtered out by lungs or filters.

>

> What I don't understand is what is wrong with doing BOTH..... killing the

> mold AND removing it! Just think, you could actually remove dead mold

> spores via your normal cleaning instead of dormant of live ones to go on

> living in our environment. If Thieves or some of essential oil or natural

> anti-fungal kills the mold, yippee!!!! Then just get it out with your

> normal cleaning!

>

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Are you cross contaminating with mold spores, fragments, or potential mycotoxin

gasses (controversial concept I dare to bring up.. some say these exist

separately as gasses that can permeate items and others say they exist attached

to the spores and finer particles).

Robin

>

> Ive learned that the only way Im going to recover is to get out of this sick

house, leave everything behind, find a safe place to live and start all over.

It's expensive, frustrating and depressing but to think I can recover while

living here is insane.

>

> I'll bet I've talked to over 100 people since my first exposure and 90% of

them have just walked away leaving everything behind. I realize not everyone can

just give up and walk away but in reality what choice do you have, without your

health you have nothing?

>

> Ive gotten rid of my possibly cross contaminated camper shell now if I need to

move some cheap furniture into my new apartment I can do so without having to

worry about cross contamination

>

> My relationship is pretty much over, in reality I saw this coming a long time

ago I just thank God I prepared myself for it.

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Share on other sites

These threads are so long, they are not completely archived. seems there is a

limit to a threads ability to be saved properly as an archive. If we can post

from the homepage without being moderated, we can post new threads more easily

and quickly.

Karla,

>>>(Karla, you can post from the homepage. Most of us do but it still is

moderated. All you do to make a new thread is start a new piece of mail instead

of replying to someone else's but posting from the homepage is easy and I think

easier way to read and respond to posts. Barb)<<<

What I am getting is that when you kill a mold spore, you trigger it to release

its toxins (if the toxins are able to gas out, which is under debate between two

factions in mold land) and or fragment into smaller pieces (like blowing it up)

which will then result in what Jeanine said below.

So better to wash away like in fridge, bathtub, waste can, etc or remove as with

building materials, books, clothing.. anything the mold is growing directly on.

Trash can it is growing on food particles most likely.

Robin

>

> the point is that if you remove the mold there is no mold.

> if you want to spend money on things regardless of weither they work or not,

are needed or not, than go right ahead.

> you use these things, either or both but dont remove the mold and you will

still be getting exposed to mold thats dead and when it's dead it still is

harmful and when it's dead it fragments and the tinyer

> the fragment the deeper into the lungs they go.

> if you dont remove the most theres no sence in even killing it.

>

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