Guest guest Posted August 18, 2010 Report Share Posted August 18, 2010 Carl: But what about Barb's statement that " the toxins stick around. " I made a mess of my home by bleaching the basement and then " all went bad " everywhere. That was in 2004 and I have never returned to my home. Where do the toxins go over time and is it possible that they are no longer present? Thanks Diane > > Barb, > > You're usually right but don't continue to focus on what kills mold, > or whether spores die or not. > > If no water they don't grow. They may die but most will go > dormant for years, decades, centuries and be revitalized by > moisture. So remove growth and clean frequently to reduce > accumulations of settled spores and fragments. Stop the water > and nothing grows. You also don't need sealants with 20 to 50 > year warranties. Because the warranties are void if - are you > ready? - the warranties are void if they get wet again. So even the > shysters know moisture is the key, which is why they void their > own warranty. > > FIRST FACT: You don't need to kill mold. > > SECOND FACT: You don't need to kill mold. > > THIRD FACT: You don't need to kill mold. > > FOURTH FACT: It's not just mold. It's the damp filth. > > Carl Grimes > Healthy Habitats LLC > > > ----- > Mold spores: If they don't get food and water they die. Their 'toxins' stick > around. That might be what is confusing to you. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2010 Report Share Posted August 18, 2010 Hi Carl, You have the patience of a saint. But, if I have to keep reading your constant reminders, to our newer group members, that " killing mold " is a waste of time, and that " removal of mold, or removal of the sufferer from the mold " is the only effective way to stop the suffering, I WILL LOSE MY MIND (or what little of my mind that I have left). K.C. and Barb absolutely must add your repeatedly stated truism to the " Home Page " of the Sickbuildings group, so that every new member sees this information, upon joining our group. I am copying this posting directly to K.C. and Barb, who must ALSO be losing their minds, at the task of monitoring and editing the same pointless " killing " postings, over and over again, through the years. I also suggest that the " welcoming " email that the group sends out to all new members, upon their joining, ALSO include the fact that " mold killing " postings will not be accepted, due to the " pointless " nature of such questions. I can understand where the tendency to frame the mold question as a " killing " question, comes from. It's those idiotic T.V. commercials of a housewife " dancing " around her home, spraying some " germ killer " into the air, or on her kitchen counter, and smelling the air, afterwards, with an expression of divine bliss on her face. Please, K.C., Barb, and Carl, I love you all dearly, but please stick the " no killing " info here: / , and not in my face 50 times a month. Thank You, Joe ......................................................................... In " Carl E. Grimes " grimes@... wrote: Barb, You're usually right but don't continue to focus on what kills mold, or whether spores die or not. If no water they don't grow. They may die but most will go dormant for years, decades, centuries and be revitalized by moisture. So remove growth and clean frequently to reduce accumulations of settled spores and fragments. Stop the water and nothing grows. You also don't need sealants with 20 to 50 year warranties. Because the warranties are void if - are you ready? - the warranties are void if they get wet again. So even the shysters know moisture is the key, which is why they void their own warranty. FIRST FACT: You don't need to kill mold. SECOND FACT: You don't need to kill mold. THIRD FACT: You don't need to kill mold. FOURTH FACT: It's not just mold. It's the damp filth. Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2010 Report Share Posted August 18, 2010 I think that istead of makeing a list and calling them facts, it would be better to state that they are opinions based on experiences of the group. if we had some way to add to it in a ongoing fasion, when a good question is asked and gets a good answer and this is a question that is asked over and over again, we dont have to keep repeating ourselfs. if facts are known, we can put it in a facts colom. I also think it's a good idea to have a general questionaire asking the basics of ones illness, like were they ill from a WDB or some other chemical exposure. when people talk about their experience and whats helped them and whats not, if they were ill by some other type of exposure, that can be a whole other avenue than people sick from WDB's. > > Also, it seems to me that such lists do exist and they are called books. > Meaning that 1) sometimes facts are not facts but to the person espousing them; as I said in my response to Carl, foundational texts on healthy homes recommend 4-6 mil ply, so his fact is in direct dispute with facts provided by other, perhaps more well known institutions (HHI). If a list is going to be THE definitive guide on these facts, to be credible and definitive, it has to explain why these other " facts " are wrong, which takes a book-length work to do 2) questions beget more questions; if the goal is to eliminate repetitive discussion, then good luck with that. For instance, you can't address as complex a topic as to WHY the goal is to remove Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2010 Report Share Posted August 18, 2010 Carl, I should leave the facts to you and the other pros. Thanks > > Barb, > > You're usually right but don't continue to focus on what kills mold, > or whether spores die or not. > > If no water they don't grow. They may die but most will go > dormant for years, decades, centuries and be revitalized by > moisture. So remove growth and clean frequently to reduce > accumulations of settled spores and fragments. Stop the water > and nothing grows. You also don't need sealants with 20 to 50 > year warranties. Because the warranties are void if - are you > ready? - the warranties are void if they get wet again. So even the > shysters know moisture is the key, which is why they void their > own warranty. > > FIRST FACT: You don't need to kill mold. > > SECOND FACT: You don't need to kill mold. > > THIRD FACT: You don't need to kill mold. > > FOURTH FACT: It's not just mold. It's the damp filth. > > Carl Grimes > Healthy Habitats LLC > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2010 Report Share Posted August 18, 2010 There are a number of new members and so this week has going over some old information. Anyway, as far as the killing went, I was answering question from someone that was concerned that workmen were leaving windows opened, or building was open while they worked and letting outdoor mold inside, concerned about how to get it out, not a mold colony growing in house, so I said essentially not to worry about it, that just good housekeeping would take care of it, it wouldn't have any place to grow, and then I did say it would 'die' from no food , which as Carl pointed out was not accurate. I didn't know how long spores can live but gest of post was not that she had mold colony and whether or not to kill it or remove it, which is usual point of this issue. So I learned something new, mold spores last and last and last. I just didn't think she should be concerned about the outdoor air inside of home while men were working. Just regular housekeeping should take care of that, along with general dirt and dust from outdoors. From: Joe Salowitz <josephsalowitz@...> Subject: Re: Some Basics (Questions) " " < > Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2010, 3:08 PM Hi Carl, You have the patience of a saint. But, if I have to keep reading your constant reminders, to our newer group members, that " killing mold " is a waste of time, and that " removal of mold, or removal of the sufferer from the mold " is the only effective way to stop the suffering, I WILL LOSE MY MIND (or what little of my mind that I have left). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2010 Report Share Posted August 18, 2010 HI, I just always assumed that opening all the windows, in the absence of some toxic spill nearby or something, was a healthy thing, to change out the stale indoor air and replace it with fresh outdoor air, I thought one of the reasons there are more and more is the energy efficiency/tightness of the buidings now adays, they don't breath, HAVE I GOT IT ALL WRONG? thanks, sue I just >didn't think she should be concerned about the outdoor air inside of >home while men were working. Just regular housekeeping should take care >of that, along with general dirt and dust from outdoors. > > >From: Joe Salowitz <josephsalowitz@...> >Subject: Re: Some Basics (Questions) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2010 Report Share Posted August 18, 2010 Very well said, Joe! Believe me I'd rather not have to keep repeating. However, in the past when I make reference to previous posts or suggest a search the archives I'm " gently " reminded that there are always new members and I should respond with them in mind. Choosing the best or most effective action is kind of like how we all have our own personal definition of what a " fact " is. Without some sort of common agreement about meaning and without a fundamental basis for deciding what or how to trust information, we will all keep chasing our tail. After a few rounds of healthy debate we always lose track of our own tail and start chasing others thinking its ours. That's worse than circular reasoning. It's not reasoning at all. And I obviously don't have the answer for this. Home page! Excellent suggestion. There are survey web sites for free. SurveyMonkey I think is. We could post " facts " and let everyone vote on its credibility, or truthiness (as Stehpen Colbert calls it). Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC ----- Hi Carl, You have the patience of a saint. But, if I have to keep reading your constant reminders, to our newer group members, that " killing mold " is a waste of time, and that " removal of mold, or removal of the sufferer from the mold " is the only effective way to stop the suffering, I WILL LOSE MY MIND (or what little of my mind that I have left). K.C. and Barb absolutely must add your repeatedly stated truism to the " Home Page " of the Sickbuildings group, so that every new member sees this information, upon joining our group. I am copying this posting directly to K.C. and Barb, who must ALSO be losing their minds, at the task of monitoring and editing the same pointless " killing " postings, over and over again, through the years. I also suggest that the " welcoming " email that the group sends out to all new members, upon their joining, ALSO include the fact that " mold killing " postings will not be accepted, due to the " pointless " nature of such questions. I can understand where the tendency to frame the mold question as a " killing " question, comes from. It's those idiotic T.V. commercials of a housewife " dancing " around her home, spraying some " germ killer " into the air, or on her kitchen counter, and smelling the air, afterwards, with an expression of divine bliss on her face. Please, K.C., Barb, and Carl, I love you all dearly, but please stick the " no killing " infohere: /, and not in my face 50 times a month. Thank You, Joe ......................................................................... In " Carl E. Grimes " grimes@...: Barb, You're usually right but don't continue to focus on what kills mold, or whether spores die or not. If no water they don't grow. They may die but most will go dormant for years, decades, centuries and be revitalized by moisture. So remove growth and clean frequently to reduce accumulations of settled spores and fragments. Stop the water and nothing grows. You also don't need sealants with 20 to 50 year warranties. Because the warranties are void if - are you ready? - the warranties are void if they get wet again. So even the shysters know moisture is the key, which is why they void their own warranty. FIRST FACT: You don't need to kill mold. SECOND FACT: You don't need to kill mold. THIRD FACT: You don't need to kill mold. FOURTH FACT: It's not just mold. It's the damp filth. Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2010 Report Share Posted August 18, 2010 I'd like to say that often times, new members and old are in a panic and don't have the energy to search the archives, they just want to ask their specific question and get an answer..... sue v. >Very well said, Joe! Believe me I'd rather not have to keep >repeating. However, in the past when I make reference to > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2010 Report Share Posted August 18, 2010 No, Sue. You've got it right. However, if I'm allergic to grass pollen and it is grass pollen season then opening the windows will increase my exposure. But that doesn't mean I can't or shouldn't open the window. I'll do what I damn will please! And take the consequences of my action or inaction. And it doesn't mean I have to keep them closed all year. I'm slowly beginning to understand that one of the difficulties here lately is we are trying to find absolute answers so we can remove the uncertainty. But uncertaintly is certain. (Is that a " fact? " ) We have to each find our own road map for our situation knowing full well no map is perfect. We do the best we can with what we have. Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC ----- HI, I just always assumed that opening all the windows, in the absence of some toxic spill nearby or something, was a healthy thing, to change out the stale indoor air and replace it with fresh outdoor air, I thought one of the reasons there are more and more is the energy efficiency/tightness of the buidings now adays, they don't breath, HAVE I GOT IT ALL WRONG? thanks, sue I just >didn't think she should be concerned about the outdoor air inside of >home while men were working. Just regular housekeeping should take care >of that, along with general dirt and dust from outdoors. >--- On Wed, 8/18/10, Joe Salowitz <josephsalowitz@...> wrote: > >From: Joe Salowitz <josephsalowitz@...> >Subject: Re: Some Basics (Questions) ---------- The following section of this message contains a file attachment prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format. If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any other MIME-compliant system, you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer. If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance. ---- File information ----------- File: DEFAULT.BMP Date: 16 Jun 2009, 0:10 Size: 358 bytes. Type: Unknown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2010 Report Share Posted August 18, 2010 Hi Carl, of course uncertainty is a fact & we each have to navigate down our own individual uncertain path. I was really asking the question relative to molds, whether even if there is outside mold, we shouldn't be opening the windows and changing out the air???? BTW, I used to keep the windows all shut closed in my SF house during spring pollen season, it didn't help w/my hay fever at all, 1st off those old SF houses aren't " tight " and 2ndly it probably just reduced the indoor air quality due to the hidden mold problems, formaldehyde soaked insulation, etc... sue >No, Sue. You've got it right. > >However, if I'm allergic to grass pollen and it is grass pollen >season then opening the windows will increase my exposure. But >that doesn't mean I can't or shouldn't open the window. I'll do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 Joe and Carl I agree but they only allow so many characters (# & letters) on the home page and welcome letter. They are both at there limit. KC > > Very well said, Joe! Believe me I'd rather not have to keep > repeating. However, in the past when I make reference to > previous posts or suggest a search the archives I'm " gently " > reminded that there are always new members and I should > respond with them in mind. > > Choosing the best or most effective action is kind of like how we > all have our own personal definition of what a " fact " is. Without > some sort of common agreement about meaning and without a > fundamental basis for deciding what or how to trust information, > we will all keep chasing our tail. After a few rounds of healthy > debate we always lose track of our own tail and start chasing > others thinking its ours. That's worse than circular reasoning. It's > not reasoning at all. And I obviously don't have the answer for > this. > > Home page! Excellent suggestion. > > There are survey web sites for free. SurveyMonkey I think is. We > could post " facts " and let everyone vote on its credibility, or > truthiness (as Stehpen Colbert calls it). > > Carl Grimes > Healthy Habitats LLC > > ----- > Hi Carl, > > > You have the patience of a saint. But, if I have to keep reading your > constant reminders, to our newer group members, that " killing mold " is > a waste of time, and that " removal of mold, or removal of the sufferer > from the mold " is the only effective way to stop the suffering, I WILL > LOSE MY MIND (or what little of my mind that I have left). > > K.C. and Barb absolutely must add your repeatedly stated truism to the > " Home Page " of the Sickbuildings group, so that every new member sees > this information, upon joining our group. I am copying this posting > directly to K.C. and Barb, who must ALSO be losing their minds, at the > task of monitoring and editing the same pointless " killing " postings, over > and over again, through the years. > > I also suggest that the " welcoming " email that the group sends out to all > new members, upon their joining, ALSO include the fact that " mold > killing " postings will not be accepted, due to the " pointless " nature of > such questions. > > I can understand where the tendency to frame the mold question as a > " killing " question, comes from. It's those idiotic T.V. commercials of a > housewife " dancing " around her home, spraying some " germ killer " into > the air, or on her kitchen counter, and smelling the air, afterwards, with > an expression of divine bliss on her face. > > Please, K.C., Barb, and Carl, I love you all dearly, but please stick the " no > killing " infohere: > /, and not in my > face 50 times a month. > > Thank You, Joe > ........................................................................ > > In > " Carl E. Grimes " grimes@...: > > Barb, > > You're usually right but don't continue to focus on what kills mold, > or whether spores die or not. > > If no water they don't grow. They may die but most will go > dormant for years, decades, centuries and be revitalized by > moisture. So remove growth and clean frequently to reduce > accumulations of settled spores and fragments. Stop the water > and nothing grows. You also don't need sealants with 20 to 50 > year warranties. Because the warranties are void if - are you > ready? - the warranties are void if they get wet again. So even the > shysters know moisture is the key, which is why they void their > own warranty. > > FIRST FACT: You don't need to kill mold. > > SECOND FACT: You don't need to kill mold. > > THIRD FACT: You don't need to kill mold. > > FOURTH FACT: It's not just mold. It's the damp filth. > > Carl Grimes > Healthy Habitats LLC > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 No I don;t think so, but I get the keeping the windows closed too. My basement was remediated (successfully so far) but everyone said I should keep the windows down there closed all the time to minimize the moisture and humidity coming in. This is an excellent idea for the basement because it's gutted and no one needs any fresh air there anymore. But upstairs is a different story. If you are like me, indoor environmental pollution is a bad thing and fresh air is the only thing I need sometimes to feel better. However, some people get sick from outdoor pollution-so it;s a personal call. But the windows closed is a good idea. > > > >From: Joe Salowitz <josephsalowitz@...> > >Subject: Re: Some Basics (Questions) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 Re: Late response to list of facts. Problem is agreeing on what are facts. Will consider this with help of experts but for now best thing new members can do is get their hands on one of books of members, who keep up with WDB issues, such as Carl or Jeff, that both have books on subject. Dr Rae has a building safe housing book. They can be purchased at Amazon.com and some are available at your library. > > It would be very helpful to send out with new membership. And when people get off track, the list could be referred to. There is something about having a document to keep referring back to. Im trying to keep info filed away in a private blog I use to file tings away in, but cant oreganize it well right now.. info is pinging all over my brain esp when we are trying to get going here. > > I want to thank you all for being so patient and helpful. I am very stressed as we are getting closer to moving out, getting rid of so many things, all the emotions and decisions. > > Thank you so much for all of your help and understanding. > > Robin > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 I'm a little leary at writing this as I don't want to fan any flames any further and am only now starting to get up to speed on the threads of late. So, please if I'm off-base here, please take it with a grain of salt-- or just dismiss it all-together. From my own personal experience as a member over the past few years, the continuing threads of explanation of the difference between killing mold and removing it among other basic issues, has been an increasing education that my slow mind has taken alot of time to wrap my brain around (despite spending alot of time reading and studying). I think some of us who are cognitively impaired may have the same issues of not being able to digest simple thoughts that to others are immediately understood--- or that others on the list who are equally impaired have been able somehow to so dedicate themselves that they do finally get it.. I agree that a " new members section " , would be a great benefit and should someone take it up to help KC and Barb put it together that it will minimize these kind of questions. But we may still see them from time to time. Just due to the fact that newbies may not realize that they haven't yet fully got it. Personally, I've not always been aware that I still wasn't getting it. The proof came from the mostly thoughtful replies I got that pointed out that I was stating things incorrectly or not getting the meaning. That has been so even up to the present. Oddly enough after all this time it wasn't until quite recently that I finally have understood this very subject and that was by mostly monitoring the questions that came up from time to time. I'm embarrassed by my slowness and again have worked hard to learn. I don't know if I've made a wick of sense. I'm still not working on all cylindars this week. So, if I've jumped in w/o knowing the full story or am not making sense; just delete it. Which btw is what I do when at times I see posts that I might be familair with as at times I'm so weak that I can't read everything. Might be a possible solution for those who are exhausted by the same questions that even after a new member page is created, might still come up. Best to all, Sam > > Very well said, Joe! Believe me I'd rather not have to keep > repeating. However, in the past when I make reference to > previous posts or suggest a search the archives I'm " gently " > reminded that there are always new members and I should > respond with them in mind. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 Please do not beat up on yourself or fell bad in any way shape or form and dont let anyone beat up on you. I was still haveing a very hard time when I first came here several years ago, at one point some told me I need to learn how to spell, they didn't understand how badly I had be damaged in my WDB exposure. we had a few words of the group and we later became friends. this is what it's all about. I can say that it took a while for me to start getting where I could soak much in, I just kept pushing myself and reading things over and over. yes it was very hard to read much and hardier to write much. hang in there. I remember saying this several times, all I can do is what I can do. I still do sometimes. and yes, sometimes us older ones forget or want to forget what we went through in the beganing,begining, what ever. please dont worry about spelling or anything else and dont fell bad about any of it, theres no reason why you should. > > I'm a little leary at writing this as I don't want to fan any flames any further and am only now starting to get up to speed on the threads of late. So, please if I'm off-base here, please take it with a grain of salt-- or just dismiss it all-together. > > From my own personal experience as a member over the past few years, the continuing threads of explanation of the difference between killing mold and removing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 Thanks for the referrals to books. However, I thought that Mold Warriors was " the bible, " and now am hearing that it's outdated. Is there a really good book that gives tips on living with multiple chemical sensitivity and navigating life after exposure to VOCs, neurotoxins, etc? (One that acknowledges that not all folks will respond in the same way?)  I know there are books out there, but when I read current research, the findings fly in the very face of the other. For example, I worry about these " tests " that everyone should take. Given our unique sensitivities and reactions to exposure, why would ALL people who have had exposure present with the same lab tests? I worry that " movers and shakers " in this area are attempting to standardize diagnoses when it is the very unique nature of sufferers' systems that has prevented traditional medicine from prior diagnoses and effective treatment. I read on this site, for example, about someone taking a test that is recommended, someone who is clearly suffering from exposure of some kind. I can only imagine how devastating it must be to save the money for an acclaimed, new test, only to have it say that the person is " negative " for neurotoxins.  This doesn't necessarily mean, does it, that he/she hasn't been exposed, but means, instead, that his/her body has responded in a different way from some other folks who have been tested.  Again, although I understand the need to find a substantive, accepted diagnostic test to prove the existence of this illness/reaction, I worry about the consequences of alternative medicine treating all sufferers the same. What do folks do who, after years of failed attempts by established providers to label their set of symptoms with a category or special insurance code, now look to a new test, now embraced by advocates. Where do they turn if, after finding the funds to be tested and obtaining the results, they don't fit this category either? I just can see a backlash of possibilities and worry.  If they are " negative " for exposure on a test supported by advocates, where do they go for help? Just thinking out loud here...and a bit worried about staunchly advocating one set of criteria that will PROVE exposure to those who have no understanding of it to begin with. There are always those of us who don't fit the mold, and, sadly, I fear that those are the very folks who come to this site seeking help and understanding. We don't fit into neat, tidy, linear categories, those of us who have chronic pain, autoimmune reactions, and sensitive systems.  If the advocates in the field publish and recommend a definitive testing protocol and widely embrace these as testimony/evidence for insurers/employers/courtrooms--without a caveat that these don't necessarily identify all exposures in the same way, what becomes of those who have been exposed and don't line up with the same symptoms/immune system responses? Anyone else worried about this, or am I just getting paranoid? sally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 If people expect everyone to get this right away and then not to ask questions *or question* or need time to process, they are nuts. This is not the military. and to get all upset about the dreaded THIEVES oil or any other antifungal talk.. please. I know an entire list of extremely smart ladies of autistic kids with lyme who re currently diffusing thieves for mold control. I would never dismiss them because i learn to much for them and respect them too much. But Im going to tell them the POV of this list. Robin (new person, evil-doer questioner) > >> From my own personal experience as a member over the past few years, the continuing threads of explanation of the difference between killing mold and removing it among other basic issues, has been an increasing education that my slow mind has taken alot of time to wrap my brain around (despite spending alot of time reading and studying). I think some of us who are cognitively impaired may have the same issues of not being able to digest simple thoughts that to others are immediately understood--- or that others on the list who are equally impaired have been able somehow to so dedicate themselves that they do finally get it.. I agree that a " new members section " , would be a great benefit and should someone take it up to help KC and Barb put it together that it will minimize these kind of questions. But we may still see them from time to time. Just due to the fact that newbies may not realize that they haven't yet fully got it. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 Robin, would you Please calm down, do you understand that your stress level is affecting me? this is a group for mold injured people, I dont care what you learned in another group, you just sent me a email about going to the extreme reactors group and about how you are being told about mycotoxins offgassing and learning so much there and learning about cross contamination and you are doing the exact oppisite and thinking the exact oppisite of what some experts told you right here. MYCOTOXINS DO NOT OFFGAS! now what other people do or dont do in others groups is their bussiness, dont even think of sending anyone to this group with a chip on their shoulders over such a stupied thing as weither THIEVES OIL works or not. POINT IS, YOU WANT TO BELIEVE IN IT AND USE IT, YOU GO FOR IT, but dont even think about sending people here from some other group to try to prove a point that really aint even worth the effort. who cares, use it dont use it. what ever trips your trigger. this is trivial. and I well remind you again what I told you with your first email, I dont like getting email from group members, it's not to be rude, I just have things set up the way I need do and I fell that anything that can be said in a email can be said right here, and it's better in that you get other opinions, now more than ever, I dont want group members sending me emails unless it something important. > > If people expect everyone to get this right away and then not to ask questions *or question* or need time to process, they are nuts. This is not the military. > > and to get all upset about the dreaded THIEVES oil or any other antifungal talk.. please. I know an entire list of extremely smart ladies of autistic kids with lyme who re currently diffusing thieves for mold control. I would never dismiss them because i learn to much for them and respect them too much. But Im going to tell them the POV of this list. > > Robin ( > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 What I don't understand is what is wrong with doing BOTH..... killing the mold AND removing it! Just think, you could actually remove dead mold spores via your normal cleaning instead of dormant of live ones to go on living in our environment. If Thieves or some of essential oil or natural anti-fungal kills the mold, yippee!!!! Then just get it out with your normal cleaning! I know of so many testimonies of health restored and mold diminished, that this process should not be refuted or taken lightly. And personally, common sense tells me that both of these would be better than just one. Karla berger10@... On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 5:43 PM, listspub <listspub@...> wrote: > > > If people expect everyone to get this right away and then not to ask > questions *or question* or need time to process, they are nuts. This is not > the military. > > and to get all upset about the dreaded THIEVES oil or any other antifungal > talk.. please. I know an entire list of extremely smart ladies of autistic > kids with lyme who re currently diffusing thieves for mold control. I would > never dismiss them because i learn to much for them and respect them too > much. But Im going to tell them the POV of this list. > > Robin (new person, evil-doer questioner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 the point is that if you remove the mold there is no mold. if you want to spend money on things regardless of weither they work or not, are needed or not, than go right ahead. you use these things, either or both but dont remove the mold and you will still be getting exposed to mold thats dead and when it's dead it still is harmful and when it's dead it fragments and the tinyer the fragment the deeper into the lungs they go. if you dont remove the most theres no sence in even killing it. > > > > > > > If people expect everyone to get this right away and then not to ask > > questions *or question* or need time to process, they are nuts. This is not > > the military. > > > > and to get all upset about the dreaded THIEVES oil or any other antifungal > > talk.. please. I know an entire list of extremely smart ladies of autistic > > kids with lyme who re currently diffusing thieves for mold control. I would > > never dismiss them because i learn to much for them and respect them too > > much. But Im going to tell them the POV of this list. > > > > Robin (new person, evil-doer questioner) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 Ive learned that the only way Im going to recover is to get out of this sick house, leave everything behind, find a safe place to live and start all over. It's expensive, frustrating and depressing but to think I can recover while living here is insane. I'll bet I've talked to over 100 people since my first exposure and 90% of them have just walked away leaving everything behind. I realize not everyone can just give up and walk away but in reality what choice do you have, without your health you have nothing? Ive gotten rid of my possibly cross contaminated camper shell now if I need to move some cheap furniture into my new apartment I can do so without having to worry about cross contamination My relationship is pretty much over, in reality I saw this coming a long time ago I just thank God I prepared myself for it. > > If people expect everyone to get this right away and then not to ask questions *or question* or need time to process, they are nuts. This is not the military. > > and to get all upset about the dreaded THIEVES oil or any other antifungal talk.. please. I know an entire list of extremely smart ladies of autistic kids with lyme who re currently diffusing thieves for mold control. I would never dismiss them because i learn to much for them and respect them too much. But Im going to tell them the POV of this list. > > Robin (new person, evil-doer questioner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 This is ridiculous. The two lists and the fighting and the jumping on new folks for asking the same questions over and over is what is wrong. I did just join the extreme list to ask questions. I have a mind. I dont see being afraid of information unless one is not convinced their info is right.. and if thats the case.. I would like to know. I am not using thieves. I was referring to people (including me) bringing it up (and other antifungals) and then others yelling at them for doing it. I get the not killing mold. It will most likely cause a dispersal of mycotoxins whether they be particles or gasses.. which seems to be a huge point of contention which then leads to the cross contamination scare which is rightly or wrongly causing people to become quite fearful... even me.... and it seems angrily divided (as the two groups and the dynamics indicate). The question is already in my mind and was from the beginning since an extreme responder actually clued me into mold being a problem. Im reading a paper that says they are soluable and they do separate from the spore. ?? I think people need to back up their facts with research or threads of common sense. Im not accepting that mycotoxins are only particles and Im not accepting they gas out just because someone tells me that. I also went to a MCS board to ask questions about furniture and guess what? I got the most scary scenerios becasue the people speaking up are the ones who are suffering the most. I wish people would allow each other their opinions, facts.. whatever. And I appreciate research and reasonable explanations when it is lacking. This is messed up and the discord is making me sicker than the scary opinions/facts. Robin > > Robin, would you Please calm down, do you understand that your stress level is affecting me? > this is a group for mold injured people, I dont care what you learned in another group, you just sent me a email about going to the extreme reactors group and about how you are being told about mycotoxins offgassing and learning so much there and learning about cross contamination and you are doing the exact oppisite and thinking the exact oppisite of what some experts told you right here. > MYCOTOXINS DO NOT OFFGAS! > now what other people do or dont do in others groups is their bussiness, dont even think of sending anyone to this group with a chip on their shoulders over such a stupied thing as weither THIEVES OIL works or not. POINT IS, YOU WANT TO BELIEVE IN IT AND USE IT, YOU GO FOR IT, but dont even think about sending people here from some other group to try to prove a point that really aint even worth the effort. who cares, use it dont use it. what ever trips your trigger. > this is trivial. > and I well remind you again what I told you with your first email, I dont like getting email from group members, it's not to be rude, I just have things set up the way I need do and I fell that anything that can be said in a email can be said right here, and it's better in that you get other opinions, now more than ever, I dont want group members sending me emails unless it something important. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2010 Report Share Posted August 19, 2010 Killing small amts of mold should do no harm but killing large amts of mold, say mold colonies just turns the mold/dead mold into fragments that are more able to be inhaled and go deeper into the lungs where they can get into blood stream, too small a particle to be filtered out by lungs or filters. > > What I don't understand is what is wrong with doing BOTH..... killing the > mold AND removing it! Just think, you could actually remove dead mold > spores via your normal cleaning instead of dormant of live ones to go on > living in our environment. If Thieves or some of essential oil or natural > anti-fungal kills the mold, yippee!!!! Then just get it out with your > normal cleaning! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 Are you cross contaminating with mold spores, fragments, or potential mycotoxin gasses (controversial concept I dare to bring up.. some say these exist separately as gasses that can permeate items and others say they exist attached to the spores and finer particles). Robin > > Ive learned that the only way Im going to recover is to get out of this sick house, leave everything behind, find a safe place to live and start all over. It's expensive, frustrating and depressing but to think I can recover while living here is insane. > > I'll bet I've talked to over 100 people since my first exposure and 90% of them have just walked away leaving everything behind. I realize not everyone can just give up and walk away but in reality what choice do you have, without your health you have nothing? > > Ive gotten rid of my possibly cross contaminated camper shell now if I need to move some cheap furniture into my new apartment I can do so without having to worry about cross contamination > > My relationship is pretty much over, in reality I saw this coming a long time ago I just thank God I prepared myself for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2010 Report Share Posted August 20, 2010 These threads are so long, they are not completely archived. seems there is a limit to a threads ability to be saved properly as an archive. If we can post from the homepage without being moderated, we can post new threads more easily and quickly. Karla, >>>(Karla, you can post from the homepage. Most of us do but it still is moderated. All you do to make a new thread is start a new piece of mail instead of replying to someone else's but posting from the homepage is easy and I think easier way to read and respond to posts. Barb)<<< What I am getting is that when you kill a mold spore, you trigger it to release its toxins (if the toxins are able to gas out, which is under debate between two factions in mold land) and or fragment into smaller pieces (like blowing it up) which will then result in what Jeanine said below. So better to wash away like in fridge, bathtub, waste can, etc or remove as with building materials, books, clothing.. anything the mold is growing directly on. Trash can it is growing on food particles most likely. Robin > > the point is that if you remove the mold there is no mold. > if you want to spend money on things regardless of weither they work or not, are needed or not, than go right ahead. > you use these things, either or both but dont remove the mold and you will still be getting exposed to mold thats dead and when it's dead it still is harmful and when it's dead it fragments and the tinyer > the fragment the deeper into the lungs they go. > if you dont remove the most theres no sence in even killing it. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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