Re: Re: Pycnogenol

[Guest guest]

At 08:33 PM 6/24/2006, you wrote:

>Pycnogenol has an anti-oxidant effect like NAC and can achieve modest

>effects like other anti-oxidants.

>

>In general, antioxidants are a good idea, but there are many less toxic

>and less expensive anti-oxidants to choose from than pycnogenol.

Agreed and thanks for pointing out the " higher than can be achieved in

humans " point--I read it too quickly.

I don't recall the French study--who was conducting it? And I think this

underscores a separate point that ALL study results should be published. If

people are going to put their lives on the line, the results should be

published. Whether a supplement or a drug or whatever.

snip...

>Pycnogenol was quite a popular item when it first appeared in HIV Buyers

>Clubs, but people with HIV are notoriously reluctant to continue

>purchasing items which don't provide them with any perceived benefit.

There's an important point. What outcomes should be used?

Antioxidant therapy doesn't necessarily have the immediate effects on CD4

counts or viral load and other markers like malondialdehyde I'm not so sure

are the best. Some markers of mitochondrial function may be better.

For example, the multi studies in Thailand didn't show a big impact on CD4

count or viral load (and some vitamins help support antioxidant systems),

but an effect on morbidity and mortality. But such studies SHOULD be

unethical everywhere to the extent that ARV should be available to all.

But it still begs the question of how to evaluate if there is benefit to

antioxidant approaches. I rely on a comprehensive antioxidant regimen to

manage Hep C, but not being HIV+ and making a low income, I don't have

access to healthcare to monitor whether the approach is doing anything.

There's no " HEPDAP " for people in my situation....but that's another kettle

of bugs.

M.