Re: Mold Tutorial from Images

January 10, 2011

This is very good and yet troubling to me.I had always thought that the mold

spores collected on the plate within my home (aspergillus genera, penicillium

genera, etc.) at about 700 per cu meters was explainable by the colonies of mold

growing in the basement. But I didn't really think that through. The spores

would have had to woosh up into my second floor unit at that moment and then

immediately settle out of the air. Right? Because how could I have so many

spores without a constant colony supply and how could it be so far away? Unless

the carpet in the hallway is actively growing mold--it has over 200,000 spores

per cu meters but the back door is always closed on that hallway.

Isn't it more likely that there is a hidden source of mold within my unit itself

that is causing the release of those spores?

The other thing I wonder is my continued, daily allergic reaction. The mold was

cleaned up in the basement. Water has come in again but I do not see active

colonies yet. Plus, the air is quite dry, under 40%. How could I--and my cat,

who has had three bouts of allergic bronchitis since moving in--continue to have

the same allergic symptoms?

Please help!

Thanks,

AN

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 10, 2011, at 1:09 PM, " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

I think it will help if we all have a clearer understanding of what

mold is and what it isn't. Google has some really good photos

which can be accessed by searching for " mold growth " and then

clicking on " Images. "

What you see is often like the first image (and most of the

others). This iconic image by Terry Brennan shows colonies of a

variety of types of mold resulting from airborne moisture flow

through the top of the door and across the ceiling. It is not

growing on the walls. Where you sample will make a huge

difference in the lab results.

The image 3rd to the right is much different. Mold is growing on

the walls but not the ceiling because the water source soaked up

the drywall from the floor. Also, notice how the color changes

right near the top of the growth. Different mold because of slightly

different moisture levels at the edge of the dampness. If this area

were to be sampled you would get drastically different results

based on the exact location of the sample.

If any of the above mold growth were sporulating then their

spores, along with others having nothing to do with the situation,

might show up depending on the type of sample, where collected,

etc etc.

BTW, I've seen air samples from rooms like many in these

images with the conclusion that " there is no mold problem. "

Because of the assinine and discredited methods of interpreting

results, plus the bias of who collected the samples. But that is for

another time.

Scrolling down you will see " Page 2 " and the first image is a

culture plate with mold growth. It looks much different than the

previous images for obvious reasons and because it is from a

settling plate. Only the spores in the air which are alive and which

are heavy enough to settle from the air and happen by chance to

land on the plate which has the right kind of food (agar) will grow.

They may or may not be from the " growth " in the previous

images.

What none of these show is bacteria, actinomycetes, and

anything other then mold *growth.*

The growth, or colony, is what is visible. Spores are the seeds

and are too small to see with the naked eye. Got to Page 4 and

the first image shows spores flowing from a single stalk of the

mold growth colony. All of which is too small to see with the

naked eye.

Page 5, second down, left side. This identifies some of the many

parts of a mold growth colony. The illustration below it is a

diagram of mold growth. BTW, the MC (moisture content of the

surface) will determine whether or not mold spores will germinate

and form colonies. Of all the different types of spores always in

the air only some will grow. Change the MC slightly and different

ones will grow.

BTW, the surface with MC where the mold is growing is where

the " biofilm " will form. It is not automatic and is not part of the

mold " plant. " It is a film of dampness along with dust, old mold,

bacteria and other " filth " which accumulates on the surface over

time. As it develops other molds and bacteria previously unable

to grow may now start to " make babies " and further populate their

little " city " called a " biofilm. "

Go back to the culture plate on Page 2. What you see is mold

growth which will have some spores. But the massive amount of

substance is " biomass " and not spores. Which is part of what Dr

Thrasher means when he says about mold, " It's more than just

spores. "

But it means much more. With dampness there will also be

growth of bacteria. It just doesn't grow in a way we can see it and

few test for it. General samples for bacteria is limited to the shape

(rod, cone, spiral) and whether it changes color with a stain (gram

positive) or doesn't (gram negative).

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

January 10, 2011

AN,

Your questions require some explanation about spores,

sporulation, air pathways, and sampling.

When spores are released they usually become airborne like

dandelion fluff. (Except recent evidence says some shoot out like

a bullet at a distance of over a foot!) Because they are so small

they can stay airborne like dust. The heavier ones settle quickly

but the lighter ones can take hours. Fragments are even smaller

and can sometimes stay in the air all the time. They will travel to

where ever the air goes.

There will always be some slight air movement between floors of

a building because nothing is built airtight. So even if it takes a

day for the basement air to slowly circulate to the 2nd level that's

plenty of time if the mold growth has been there for at least a day.

Even if the mold growth is removed properly, spores and

fragments will continue to be in the air and on surfaces where

they settled like dust. If on surfaces then when the air is disturbed

by walking by or sitting down they become airborne again and

available to be breathed into your nose, sinus, and lungs.

If you have forced air heat or A/C then the fan forcibly and quickly

circulates air from all places in the house to all other places fairly

uniformly. So even if you don't go into your basement the air in

your basement comes to you.

Again, it's not just the spores but also hyphae and various

fragments. So a settling plate could show zero (0) spores even

when there is massive mold growth somewhere in the house.

Also, and especially with forced air, the heat tends to dry the

spores rendering them unable to germinate in dampness or on

the settling plate.

Next you asked about at hidden source of mold somewhere else

in you house. Exactly! There might be and there might not be.

And this sample gives no information about whether there is or

isn't. It's impossible to do determine that by air samples alone.

Other information such as moisture levels and history is needed

to sort that out.

Finally, you and your cats could well be reacting to the airborne

mold and fragments discussed above; or to the bacteria which

was growing along with the mold; or to chemicals used in the

removal of the mold (if any were used); or something else.

Once sensitized by the mold in the basement your body is still

sensitive to other irritants and allergens. There may be no mold

left to react to but other things are still triggering the inflammatory

response.

If someone hits you in the face does the pain stop when they

remove their fist? Would not your pain increase from even a

loving caress? Or from actions totally unrelated to the hit, such as

walking or chewing?

But at this point we don't have answers to those questions.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

This is very good and yet troubling to me.I had always thought that the

mold spores collected on the plate within my home (aspergillus genera,

penicillium genera, etc.) at about 700 per cu meters was explainable by

the colonies of mold growing in the basement. But I didn't really think

that through. The spores would have had to woosh up into my second

floor unit at that moment and then immediately settle out of the air.

Right? Because how could I have so many spores without a constant

colony supply and how could it be so far away? Unless the carpet in the

hallway is actively growing mold--it has over 200,000 spores per cu

meters but the back door is always closed on that hallway.

Isn't it more likely that there is a hidden source of mold within my unit

itself that is causing the release of those spores?

The other thing I wonder is my continued, daily allergic reaction. The

mold was cleaned up in the basement. Water has come in again but I do

not see active colonies yet. Plus, the air is quite dry, under 40%. How

could I--and my cat, who has had three bouts of allergic bronchitis since

moving in--continue to have the same allergic symptoms?

Please help!

Thanks,

AN

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 10, 2011, at 1:09 PM, " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...>

wrote:

I think it will help if we all have a clearer understanding of what

mold is and what it isn't. Google has some really good photos

which can be accessed by searching for " mold growth " and then

clicking on " Images. "

What you see is often like the first image (and most of the

others). This iconic image by Terry Brennan shows colonies of a

variety of types of mold resulting from airborne moisture flow

through the top of the door and across the ceiling. It is not

growing on the walls. Where you sample will make a huge

difference in the lab results.

The image 3rd to the right is much different. Mold is growing on

the walls but not the ceiling because the water source soaked up

the drywall from the floor. Also, notice how the color changes

right near the top of the growth. Different mold because of slightly

different moisture levels at the edge of the dampness. If this area

were to be sampled you would get drastically different results

based on the exact location of the sample.

If any of the above mold growth were sporulating then their

spores, along with others having nothing to do with the situation,

might show up depending on the type of sample, where collected,

etc etc.

BTW, I've seen air samples from rooms like many in these

images with the conclusion that " there is no mold problem. "

Because of the assinine and discredited methods of interpreting

results, plus the bias of who collected the samples. But that is for

another time.

Scrolling down you will see " Page 2 " and the first image is a

culture plate with mold growth. It looks much different than the

previous images for obvious reasons and because it is from a

settling plate. Only the spores in the air which are alive and which

are heavy enough to settle from the air and happen by chance to

land on the plate which has the right kind of food (agar) will grow.

They may or may not be from the " growth " in the previous

images.

What none of these show is bacteria, actinomycetes, and

anything other then mold *growth.*

The growth, or colony, is what is visible. Spores are the seeds

and are too small to see with the naked eye. Got to Page 4 and

the first image shows spores flowing from a single stalk of the

mold growth colony. All of which is too small to see with the

naked eye.

Page 5, second down, left side. This identifies some of the many

parts of a mold growth colony. The illustration below it is a

diagram of mold growth. BTW, the MC (moisture content of the

surface) will determine whether or not mold spores will germinate

and form colonies. Of all the different types of spores always in

the air only some will grow. Change the MC slightly and different

ones will grow.

BTW, the surface with MC where the mold is growing is where

the " biofilm " will form. It is not automatic and is not part of the

mold " plant. " It is a film of dampness along with dust, old mold,

bacteria and other " filth " which accumulates on the surface over

time. As it develops other molds and bacteria previously unable

to grow may now start to " make babies " and further populate their

little " city " called a " biofilm. "

Go back to the culture plate on Page 2. What you see is mold

growth which will have some spores. But the massive amount of

substance is " biomass " and not spores. Which is part of what Dr

Thrasher means when he says about mold, " It's more than just

spores. "

But it means much more. With dampness there will also be

growth of bacteria. It just doesn't grow in a way we can see it and

few test for it. General samples for bacteria is limited to the shape

(rod, cone, spiral) and whether it changes color with a stain (gram

positive) or doesn't (gram negative).

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

January 10, 2011

Hi Carl,

Thanks--I love the metaphors! Dandelion fluff, bullets...would be so cool if I

didn't hate mold with a burning passion (mold is neutral but my feelings are

not).

Anyway, I know that some spores are heavier than others and settle out

quickly--so what I was thinking was, wouldn't the air need a constant resupply

of those spores (or hyphae)? We don't have central air and do not use our

condo's back door and do not go in the basement. So, though I'd been reading

about convection air flow from, say, opening windows, I still thought that maybe

a more likely source would be in the condo.

I am definitely, definitely sensitized now to the extreme. Perfume used to be a

mild irritant and now it sends me into fits of coughing and sneezing. I've never

been able to handle third hand smoke. But nobody smokes in our building (isn't

allowed) and of us four owners, no one uses heavy scents. Of course I use scent

free products. So I'm pretty sure it's the mold or associated bacteria--though

it's complicated, I know. I feel that I am now inflamed by the world--I rarely

get relief these days, not for more than an hour, from itching, sneezing,

stinging eyes, etc.

How does bacteria " travel " ? Can bacteria in a basement affect occupants two

stories up? I know some bacteria are dispersed through the air, some through

contact. Can bacteria go through fabric? (Now I'm thinking about the recent

discussion about vaginosis)? How does bacteria affect people aside from tissue

colonization?

Thanks, Carl! I really love some of your ways of looking at

things--dandelions...that puts a smile on a very ugly (to me) topic--blech,

mold, blech WDBs!

AN

(PS still planning on calling re:book but am still working on this other

manuscript)

On Jan 10, 2011, at 7:42 PM, " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

AN,

Your questions require some explanation about spores,

sporulation, air pathways, and sampling.

When spores are released they usually become airborne like

dandelion fluff. (Except recent evidence says some shoot out like

a bullet at a distance of over a foot!) Because they are so small

they can stay airborne like dust. The heavier ones settle quickly

but the lighter ones can take hours. Fragments are even smaller

and can sometimes stay in the air all the time. They will travel to

where ever the air goes.

There will always be some slight air movement between floors of

a building because nothing is built airtight. So even if it takes a

day for the basement air to slowly circulate to the 2nd level that's

plenty of time if the mold growth has been there for at least a day.

Even if the mold growth is removed properly, spores and

fragments will continue to be in the air and on surfaces where

they settled like dust. If on surfaces then when the air is disturbed

by walking by or sitting down they become airborne again and

available to be breathed into your nose, sinus, and lungs.

If you have forced air heat or A/C then the fan forcibly and quickly

circulates air from all places in the house to all other places fairly

uniformly. So even if you don't go into your basement the air in

your basement comes to you.

Again, it's not just the spores but also hyphae and various

fragments. So a settling plate could show zero (0) spores even

when there is massive mold growth somewhere in the house.

Also, and especially with forced air, the heat tends to dry the

spores rendering them unable to germinate in dampness or on

the settling plate.

Next you asked about at hidden source of mold somewhere else

in you house. Exactly! There might be and there might not be.

And this sample gives no information about whether there is or

isn't. It's impossible to do determine that by air samples alone.

Other information such as moisture levels and history is needed

to sort that out.

Finally, you and your cats could well be reacting to the airborne

mold and fragments discussed above; or to the bacteria which

was growing along with the mold; or to chemicals used in the

removal of the mold (if any were used); or something else.

Once sensitized by the mold in the basement your body is still

sensitive to other irritants and allergens. There may be no mold

left to react to but other things are still triggering the inflammatory

response.

If someone hits you in the face does the pain stop when they

remove their fist? Would not your pain increase from even a

loving caress? Or from actions totally unrelated to the hit, such as

walking or chewing?

But at this point we don't have answers to those questions.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

January 12, 2011

AN,

I'll try to keep this short about bacteria but we have to sort out

some concepts and definitions too complex for here. Simply put,

bacteria have a physical size although they are too small to see.

They are bigger than air molecules but smaller than dust.

Because they are alive they eat and excrete waste. The waste is

molecules.

If the " holes " in fabric are smaller than the bacteria then the

bacteria usually can't move through it. But reproductive buds

might. If the bacteria, or especially mold, chemically breaksdown

the fabric then the " hole " is bigger and perhaps they can.

So bacteria can become airborne and travel on normal air

currents. Their " waste " products can also. But because that is

chemical in nature they can react chemically with a surface they

are on rather than inertly like a piece of sand or dust.

Inside the body is very different than outside the body. When

bacteria infect they may or may not be able to penetrate or move

through membranes of organs, blood vessels, lungs, etc.

In trying to keep this short and simple I may be just creating

confusion and more questions. These types of questions are

excellent and need to be asked. But a useful answer depends on

understanding micro-organisms in general plus particles and their

size, their aerodynamic properties which determine how they

travel thru air, moisture content vs water activity, and a whole

cirriculum of other topics.

It is often simpler to accept what Joe Lstiburek calls the 4 Ps.

People, Pollutants, Pathways, and Pressure.

Without people there is no people problem. Pollutants are

whatever is not supportive or is harmful to people. Pathways is

how the pollutants move from where they are generated and

growing to where the person is. Pressure, usually air pressure but

also vapor pressure and a few others, is what moves the

pollutants through the pathway to where the people are.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

Hi Carl,

Thanks--I love the metaphors! Dandelion fluff, bullets...would be so cool

if I didn't hate mold with a burning passion (mold is neutral but my

feelings are not).

Anyway, I know that some spores are heavier than others and settle out

quickly--so what I was thinking was, wouldn't the air need a constant

resupply of those spores (or hyphae)? We don't have central air and do

not use our condo's back door and do not go in the basement. So, though

I'd been reading about convection air flow from, say, opening windows, I

still thought that maybe a more likely source would be in the condo.

I am definitely, definitely sensitized now to the extreme. Perfume used to

be a mild irritant and now it sends me into fits of coughing and sneezing.

I've never been able to handle third hand smoke. But nobody smokes in

our building (isn't allowed) and of us four owners, no one uses heavy

scents. Of course I use scent free products. So I'm pretty sure it's the

mold or associated bacteria--though it's complicated, I know. I feel that I

am now inflamed by the world--I rarely get relief these days, not for

more than an hour, from itching, sneezing, stinging eyes, etc.

How does bacteria " travel " ? Can bacteria in a basement affect occupants

two stories up? I know some bacteria are dispersed through the air, some

through contact. Can bacteria go through fabric? (Now I'm thinking

about the recent discussion about vaginosis)? How does bacteria affect

people aside from tissue colonization?

Thanks, Carl! I really love some of your ways of looking at things--

dandelions...that puts a smile on a very ugly (to me) topic--blech, mold,

blech WDBs!

AN

(PS still planning on calling re:book but am still working on this other

manuscript)

On Jan 10, 2011, at 7:42 PM, " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...>

wrote:

AN,

Your questions require some explanation about spores,

sporulation, air pathways, and sampling.

When spores are released they usually become airborne like

dandelion fluff. (Except recent evidence says some shoot out like

a bullet at a distance of over a foot!) Because they are so small

they can stay airborne like dust. The heavier ones settle quickly

but the lighter ones can take hours. Fragments are even smaller

and can sometimes stay in the air all the time. They will travel to

where ever the air goes.

There will always be some slight air movement between floors of

a building because nothing is built airtight. So even if it takes a

day for the basement air to slowly circulate to the 2nd level that's

plenty of time if the mold growth has been there for at least a day.

Even if the mold growth is removed properly, spores and

fragments will continue to be in the air and on surfaces where

they settled like dust. If on surfaces then when the air is disturbed

by walking by or sitting down they become airborne again and

available to be breathed into your nose, sinus, and lungs.

If you have forced air heat or A/C then the fan forcibly and quickly

circulates air from all places in the house to all other places fairly

uniformly. So even if you don't go into your basement the air in

your basement comes to you.

Again, it's not just the spores but also hyphae and various

fragments. So a settling plate could show zero (0) spores even

when there is massive mold growth somewhere in the house.

Also, and especially with forced air, the heat tends to dry the

spores rendering them unable to germinate in dampness or on

the settling plate.

Next you asked about at hidden source of mold somewhere else

in you house. Exactly! There might be and there might not be.

And this sample gives no information about whether there is or

isn't. It's impossible to do determine that by air samples alone.

Other information such as moisture levels and history is needed

to sort that out.

Finally, you and your cats could well be reacting to the airborne

mold and fragments discussed above; or to the bacteria which

was growing along with the mold; or to chemicals used in the

removal of the mold (if any were used); or something else.

Once sensitized by the mold in the basement your body is still

sensitive to other irritants and allergens. There may be no mold

left to react to but other things are still triggering the inflammatory

response.

If someone hits you in the face does the pain stop when they

remove their fist? Would not your pain increase from even a

loving caress? Or from actions totally unrelated to the hit, such as

walking or chewing?

But at this point we don't have answers to those questions.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

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January 12, 2011

Hi Carl, and thank you. This gives me great, basic information. No confusion. It

makes perfect sense.Â

From: Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...>

Subject: Re: [] Mold Tutorial from Images

Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2011, 8:37 AM

AN,

I'll try to keep this short about bacteria but we have to sort out

some concepts and definitions too complex for here. Simply put,

bacteria have a physical size although they are too small to see.

They are bigger than air molecules but smaller than dust.

Because they are alive they eat and excrete waste. The waste is

molecules.

If the " holes " in fabric are smaller than the bacteria then the

bacteria usually can't move through it. But reproductive buds

might. If the bacteria, or especially mold, chemically breaksdown

the fabric then the " hole " is bigger and perhaps they can.

So bacteria can become airborne and travel on normal air

currents. Their " waste " products can also. But because that is

chemical in nature they can react chemically with a surface they

are on rather than inertly like a piece of sand or dust.

Inside the body is very different than outside the body. When

bacteria infect they may or may not be able to penetrate or move

through membranes of organs, blood vessels, lungs, etc.

In trying to keep this short and simple I may be just creating

confusion and more questions. These types of questions are

excellent and need to be asked. But a useful answer depends on

understanding micro-organisms in general plus particles and their

size, their aerodynamic properties which determine how they

travel thru air, moisture content vs water activity, and a whole

cirriculum of other topics.

It is often simpler to accept what Joe Lstiburek calls the 4 Ps.

People, Pollutants, Pathways, and Pressure.

Without people there is no people problem. Pollutants are

whatever is not supportive or is harmful to people. Pathways is

how the pollutants move from where they are generated and

growing to where the person is. Pressure, usually air pressure but

also vapor pressure and a few others, is what moves the

pollutants through the pathway to where the people are.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

January 12, 2011

Carl and : We are losing sight of key elements. There is sufficient

information in the literature (Reponen's group, Brasel, Gorny, etc). Activity

in the indoor environment from humans causes the production of energy waves that

are sufficient to fractionate the colonies of fungi and bacteria. This causes

the releases of particulates into three size ranges: <1 micron; 1-2.5 microns

and >2.5 microns. The <1 micron fractions is up to 500 times more concentrated

than are the larger particles. The finer particulates are cell wall fragments of

both fungi and bacteria. They are inhaled deep into the alveoli and do the

following: 1) release their toxins into the blood stream and 2) nano size

particle actually cross the alveolar membrane and enter the systemic

circulation.

Once again, emphasizes on spore counts by various members of this forum is

towards spore counts. We need to turn our attention towards particulates of all

sizes. The finer particulates are components of the dust that infiltrates all

nooks and crannies. The particulates can also bind to fabrics (clothes, couches.

carpets, beddings). I have found that the fine particles contain the

mycotoxins, endotoxins, beta glucans, among other contaminants. Finally, there

is sufficient information in the literature that shows inhaled nano particles

are distributed throughout the body, including the brain in humans and animals.

I refer all to the research of Dr. Lilian Garciduenas regarding the systemic

distribution in children, young adults and canines.

Re: [] Mold Tutorial from Images

AN,

I'll try to keep this short about bacteria but we have to sort out

some concepts and definitions too complex for here. Simply put,

bacteria have a physical size although they are too small to see.

They are bigger than air molecules but smaller than dust.

Because they are alive they eat and excrete waste. The waste is

molecules.

January 12, 2011

Excellent points, Dr Thrasher. I'd like to add two points and a

resource:

1. As the particle size decreases the surface area increases,

which results in an increase in the activity of chemical properties

in addition to the particulate properties. Adding further complexity

to inteaction with materials and inside the body.

2. As the particle size approaches nano there is an increased

accumulation of the particles at the branching junctions of the

alveoli resulting in a larger quantity of the total than with each one

individually.

FYI, nano needs to be defined because there is a lot of confusion

and fear because it is so foreign sounding and unknown.

There are various definitions but the more general one is the

range of nano sized particles begins at aout 0.01 microns and

extends smaller. Some say it begins at 0.001 microns. Either

way it's extremely small.

In context and in ranges by factors of 10

- Human hair is about 100 microns in diameter.

- We can see as small as about 10 microns in ideal light (dust in

a light shaft in a dark room).

- Many irritants and allergens including mold spores are in the 10-

1 micron range.

- HEPA filters are rated at 0.3 microns.

- Nano begins around 0.01 microns but others say 0.001.

- Air molecules, by comparison, are about 0.00001 microns.

For those oriented more visually than by numbers, there's an

amazing interactive illustration comparing sizes from the head of

a pin to dust mites through pollen, bacteria and several viruses.

http://www.cellsalive.com/howbig.htm

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

------

Carl and : We are losing sight of key elements. There is sufficient

information in the literature (Reponen's group, Brasel, Gorny, etc).

Activity in the indoor environment from humans causes the production

of energy waves that are sufficient to fractionate the colonies of fungi and

bacteria. This causes the releases of particulates into three size ranges:

<1 micron; 1-2.5 microns and >2.5 microns. The <1 micron fractions is

up to 500 times more concentrated than are the larger particles. The

finer particulates are cell wall fragments of both fungi and bacteria. They

are inhaled deep into the alveoli and do the following: 1) release their

toxins into the blood stream and 2) nano size particle actually cross the

alveolar membrane and enter the systemic circulation.

Once again, emphasizes on spore counts by various members of this

forum is towards spore counts. We need to turn our attention towards

particulates of all sizes. The finer particulates are components of the dust

that infiltrates all nooks and crannies. The particulates can also bind to

fabrics (clothes, couches. carpets, beddings). I have found that the fine

particles contain the mycotoxins, endotoxins, beta glucans, among other

contaminants. Finally, there is sufficient information in the literature

that shows inhaled nano particles are distributed throughout the body,

including the brain in humans and animals. I refer all to the research of

Dr. Lilian Garciduenas regarding the systemic distribution in children,

young adults and canines.

Re: [] Mold Tutorial from Images

AN,

I'll try to keep this short about bacteria but we have to sort out

some concepts and definitions too complex for here. Simply put,

bacteria have a physical size although they are too small to see.

They are bigger than air molecules but smaller than dust.

Because they are alive they eat and excrete waste. The waste is

molecules.

----------

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January 12, 2011

Carl: Thank you. I believe our goal is to make sure that the people on this

forum understand the complexity. For example, I was recently involved in a

school regarding health problems. The schools CIH did air samples only and

found no problems. I went in and collected various dust samples. PCR DNA

revealed the historical presence of several species of toxic Aspergillus and

Penicillium, Stachybotrys and Trichoderma viride among others. We are analyzing

the dust for mycotoxins, endotoxins and glucans. The school officials are very

chagrin. I cannot wait until they cry foul. I am now recommending additional

investigation into hidden sources of the fungi as well as bacteria. All must be

aware that school boards are self-insured for the most part.

Re: [] Mold Tutorial from Images

AN,

I'll try to keep this short about bacteria but we have to sort out

some concepts and definitions too complex for here. Simply put,

bacteria have a physical size although they are too small to see.

They are bigger than air molecules but smaller than dust.

Because they are alive they eat and excrete waste. The waste is

molecules.

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January 12, 2011

I dont know what to think about useing nanoparticles as a use of drug delivery,

I've read articles too that show they get into and stay in several parts of the

body. those articles really opened my eyes about how tiny tiny particles get

around in the body, mycotoxins are also sometimes refered to as nanoparticles.

--- In , " Jack Thrasher, Ph.D. " <toxicologist1@...>

wrote:

>

> Carl and : We are losing sight of key elements. There is sufficient