Re:Self-defeating actions [WAS: What can off gas and what cannot/Re: P

August 13, 2010

Sorry Carl and KC, but NO ONE deserves what happens. Everyone is doing

the best they can in their given situation. I think that it's not OK that

you pass judgment. At least if your house burns down you have insurance

money to cover your expenses. There is none for mold contamination. Not

everyone has the money to move or get the proper medical care. Some here are

not only fighting for their own survival but for dependents as well. Most

doctors that I have found that will treat mold require cash for their

services as they are not covered by insurance. Mold illness and chemical

sensitivities are expensive disorders to deal with. Not everyone has deep

enough

pockets.

Jean

" But once we know and once we begin paying attention and learn

and still don't take appropriate action then that is like staying in a

burning building and protesting we can't afford to leave. Besides,

where's the doctor or insurance agent or other authority giving us

permission to leave?

If that situation we deserve what happens. "

August 14, 2010

Thank you for your post. We are all just trying to do the best we can.

>

> Sorry Carl and KC, but NO ONE deserves what happens. Everyone is doing

> the best they can in their given situation. I think that it's not OK that

> you pass judgment. At least if your house burns down you have insurance

> money to cover your expenses. There is none for mold contamination. Not

> everyone has the money to move or get the proper medical care. Some here are

> not only fighting for their own survival but for dependents as well. Most

> doctors that I have found that will treat mold require cash for their

> services as they are not covered by insurance. Mold illness and chemical

> sensitivities are expensive disorders to deal with. Not everyone has deep

enough

> pockets.

>

> Jean

>

> " But once we know and once we begin paying attention and learn

> and still don't take appropriate action then that is like staying in a

> burning building and protesting we can't afford to leave. Besides,

> where's the doctor or insurance agent or other authority giving us

> permission to leave?

>

> If that situation we deserve what happens. "

>

August 14, 2010

Sure is a delicate topic, not only for us to deal with but with decideing what

we tell new comers when we can in no sure way really deturmine exactly what

their situation is.

sometimes you can get a fairly good idea, other times you cant.

and you have to consider that some people are over-reactors and some are

under-reactors in any given situation.

I dont like telling everyone to run,run,run, leave all behind,

extreme,extreme,that kind of talk causes me stress just reading it.

we do have to get them to understand to remove theirselfs from that environment

at least until a time where the problem is remediated is some way,shape or form.

yes, some do need to walk away and leave everything behind, but many have a

chance to save their belongings and homes, but if they are sick ,they dont have

any business trying to do these things theirself.

even if they are not sick, if they cant use the proper safety measures, they

still have no business missing with this stuff.

it seems like it would help all of us if we had something writen up that covers

the basics in a simple understanding form, maybe along with some short

questionair that could give us some idea of

what they are dealing with.

sometimes even in extreme situations it's best not to add extremity to the

situation. getting the point acroos without scareing the

holy crap out of someone that is alreally suffering, not thinking good, scared

and confused and felling like they are on deaths door.

we have to disattach our on fears from the situation and remain calm for the

other person, at the point you start givening advice, you need to remain calm

and not pass your fears on to that person.

>

> This is a delicate topic and I'm glad you brought it up. There is an

> important distinction here. For me, anyway.

>

> I agree that none of us deserves the pain and suffering. But if that

> is true then the argument could be made that none of us deserve

> the good, either. (Unless we bring religion back into the

> discussion, which I don't want to do).

>

> " Deserving " may be the wrong word entirely. Maybe something

> more like, " If I know to leave but don't, I will allow future

> consequences on myself. "

>

> I realize that there are compelling reasons why we can't all leave

> a bad situation or a WDB so I don't want to imply it is their fault.

> But I do want to distinguish this from when people hear the

> importance of stopping the exposure but don't, yet frantically

> search for a cure. The cure is stopping the exposure by removing

> it or leaving. Doing neither is like demanding burn ointment while

> in the middle of a smoldering house fire.

>

> As I said, this is a delicate topic.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

August 14, 2010

Carl, I just hope that Im one of those individuals that can stop the exposure

and recover without having to leave my environment. After dealing with this for

such a long time and knowing how it works my gut feeling tells me that my days

here with V are numbered and I'll be one of the many whose relationship ended

due to mold exposure.

As I sit here and type this tears are running down my face and it feels as

though my heart is being ripped out of my chest and theres nothing I can do to

stop it.

The cure is stopping the exposure by removing

> it or leaving. Doing neither is like demanding burn ointment while

> in the middle of a smoldering house fire.

>

August 14, 2010

Sue you know me better than anyone else on this group. I've waited an entire

lifetime to find my g/f and knowing that i may have to move is actually breaking

my heart. When I was told that I had to leave all my belongings behind because

they might make me sick i had a really hard time dealing with that but as time

went on i knew those items could be replace but my g/f thats a different story.

Me and this woman are soul mates, we were meant to be together

>

> Dave, so sorry......u r bringing tears to my eyes too...hang in there

> plz!! sue

>

August 14, 2010

Tug, why are you relating having to move from your belongings to losing your gf?

>

> Sue you know me better than anyone else on this group. I've waited an entire

lifetime to find my g/f and knowing that i may have to move is actually breaking

my heart. When I was told that I had to leave all my belongings behind because

they might make me sick i had a really hard time dealing with that but as time

went on i knew those items could be replace but my g/f thats a different story.

Me and this woman are soul mates, we were meant to be together

>

August 14, 2010

Tug, you mentioned in another post that things seem to be okay except on hot

days. I had this in my house. It can give you an idea of what it wrong or

where it is coming from . In my case, air was able to move down into house from

attic. Original problem in house was in foundation which had been fixed so I

couldn't understand why the problem I had in warm weather. Turns out problem

from basement, through air movement had been carried to attic and air movement

in summer brought it into house. This is a picture of how air flow in different

seasons. I will give a link. In winter, air flow is up or rather heat rises

from house and up into attic and out through roof, in summer, it is the exact

opposite so if problem left now is only noticeable in hot weather, may indicate

that problem is above or overhead somewhere. Also outdoor air is very moldy in

summer so ask yourself if you feel bad *everywhere* in summer. In that case can

just be bad outdoor air , moldy outdoor air and smog which is higher freq in

summertime which is making you feel worse. Some of that gets indoors. In

diagram see outside it is summertime and hot out and right side of picture is in

winter and air inside moving in opposite direction. Perhaps this will help to

see if more work is needed:

http://www.airsealers.com/ME2/Default.asp

>

I just hope that Im one of those individuals that can stop the exposure and

recover without having to leave my environment. After dealing with this for such

a long time and knowing how it works my gut feeling tells me that my days here

with V are numbered and I'll be one of the many whose relationship ended due to

mold exposure.

>

> As I sit here and type this tears are running down my face and it feels as

though my heart is being ripped out of my chest and theres nothing I can do to

stop it.

>

August 14, 2010

> I'll ask the group a similar question: When do you know the house is safe

especially if you are still not well?

basicly only time well tell unless you have a immediate reaction and reconize

that you are reacting to something in that environment.

if you dont have imeediate reactions, you might still have delayed reactions to

something there that can take days to weeks to show theirself.

but if you've found a good spot you should start haveing some relief of some

symptoms pretty quick, and it should keep improveing to some level as you body

starts to recooperate.

than it's on to the dealing with the damages and watching out for re-exposures.

but you are not going to start the healing process until you are in a place that

causes no reactions or inflammation/aggervation to the damaged body.

I guess you can only learn by mistakes and we all have to take risks to do

anything. exposures can kindof paralize you in a way, hard to think clear about

other things when your suffering.

the truely best chance we have of controling our environment is by owning our

own house, made to accomadate our illness.

thats just not going to happen for everyone.

that only happens when you get nation wide attn. and Ophra desides to build

everyone a home or you get on home makeover.

August 15, 2010

Carl, I was thinking that very question myself. Currently I'm dealing with some

balance and memory problems, if anything its uncomfortable. my biggest concern

is as time goes on my system will become more taxed and I wont get any better

but will get worst. I keep telling myself that if I lower the spores and keep

taking my medication it'll be just enough for my system to detox enough for me

to recover, does that make any sense or is my logic flawed?

>

> Tug,

>

> Why do you have to move when the whole house, except for part of the kitchen,

is now non-reactive?

>

> You said recently you have a safe bedroom and bed, the living room and

bathrooms are okay, clothing and bedding have been laundered in non-fragrance

detergent and are no longer causing reactions. The previously problem room you

kept closed is now okay. The crawl space is fixed, the moldy HVAC cleaned and

most surfaces professionally cleaned.

August 15, 2010

Im so sorry to hear about your son and the moldy mattress but thats exactly what

I was talking about. We try so dam hard to keep toxic mold out of our

environment and the minute we drop our guard it hits us like a ton of bricks.

When we were searching for a new house I inspected every nook and cranny of the

potential house for sale but passed because I could either tell right away there

was mold or because I found it in the crawl space. When we found this one I

thought it was perfect and no matter how hard we've tried to make sure Im not

exposed we find another source.

No sooner did we get the master bedroom figured out and what was making me sick

we were blind sided by the mold in the a/c coils, it just never stops.

>

> I can only speak from our own sample size of one really sick person and

> also from encounters with really sick people down at Dr rea's housing in

> dallas.

>

> My son is totally masked, we don't know if the new house, yard, etc. is

> bothering him as there is really no change in his condition here yet.

> And in fact he had gotten more congested, I thought well maybe he is

> reacting to the trees around here or something. Now last night I pulled

> the brand new expensive mattress topper off his air mattress (still

> waiting for the bed frame and futon) and probably the combo of no

> ventilation under the bed (slats), the plastic air mattress, and him

> lying in one spot 24/7, the mattress topper is now moldy on the

> underside that was against the top of the air mattress, so he's been

> lying in mold now for a week or two, just discovered it, that mattress

> topper isn't more than 3 weeks old, I have changed the sheets in that

> time period, although not as often as I'd like due to moving, him always

> in the bed, etc. but didn't think to turn the thing....now it is on the

> balcony waiting to be tossed...hopefully that was the cause of increased

> congestion and it will subside, or else it is something else, who knows,

> at dr rea's his congestion decreased measurably which is so strange

> living right next to the freeway in all that dallas pollution, go figure...

>

> And I don't expect big improvements just cause we are out of our moldy

> house, he has so much else wrong with him that has to be addressed and

> will probably require nutritional support, antifungals, antibiotics,

> chelation and more, so no quick fix...

>

> On the other hand, met a lot of patients at dr rea's who either know

> exactly what they are reacting to, or they think they do.....that makes

> avoidance easier in theory but much is hard to avoid in our polluted world.

>

> sue

August 15, 2010

Tug, heat intolerance is caused by disfunction of the hypothalamus and pituitary

in the brain. it took me a long time to realize that it was the heat that was

getting to me and not so much things that might be in the air that I was

breathing. they both can drain me and cause some of the same symptoms,but not

all the same symptoms.

there are times when both are involved and it's really hard on me.

I think what became a bigger sign for me knowing it was heat intolerance is that

family would comment on how red my face was getting, this may be a sign that you

can look for, I dont know, just a thought, happens to me with heat intolerance,

I dont know if the same holds true with others with heat intolerance, you would

have to ask.

I know with some re-exposures to chemicals the exact oppisite happens and my

face goes white and I fell blood draining from my head and family has commented

on this too.

both effects can make me fell like I'm about to pass out.

this also happened while at a doctors office with way to many

floresant lights but I also got gagged by the doctors colone so it may have been

a combination of both.

there was also another time I cant forget where my face drained of all color and

I did pass out or something along those lines, which I'm not going into detail

about,but do know now that I was in a WDB invironment,at that time my body was

in such termoil and I had basicly no knowledge about anything and couldn't have

put things together if it was right in my face which it basicly was. this was

right after my exposures and it was pretty freaky, and forever haunts me. I

guess I can say, a out of body experience and I watched my sister from above try

to find a palse and couldn't. I'm not going into more detail than that.

I will say that if there is a god, he was there for me when I neaded him most.

thats why I take offence in anyone blameing god for there troubles.

maybe he's just got his hands full and only steps in in the greatest time of

need or for a main purpose, I dont think we can question what our purpose is or

what his purpose is.

I do think we can keep faith,or hope, or deturmination to get through tring

times.

weither we believe or not.

sometimes just the will to live can be very strong and powerful all on it's own.

>

> Carl, I was thinking that very question myself. Currently I'm dealing with

some balance and memory problems, if anything its uncomfortable. my biggest

concern is as time goes on my system will become more taxed and I wont get any

better but will get worst. I keep telling myself that if I lower the spores and

keep taking my medication it'll be just enough for my system to detox enough for

me to recover, does that make any sense or is my logic flawed?

>

August 15, 2010

A thought here. I slept on an air mattress at my last place but it was always

outgassed outside for months first- in sun & rain. I reacted terribly to new

ones. I always had several back-up mattresses that had ougassed outside & were

left in the attic to continue airing out - in case one broke. I'd wash them with

soap & water & go over it with diluted vodka - it breaks down surface oils in

plastic. I also put it in a synthetic dust mite cover to limit the exposure.