Re: Hard time understanding

[Guest guest]

Tug,

I mean this delicately and lovingly for you and others here. I'm

describing, not criticizing because we are dealing with great

complexity.

You are right about it it not making sense because the

assumptions are incorrect, the logic doesn't fit the physical reality,

and there is more to the situation than mold.

You are putting a square peg into a round hole in a rubber

membrane, which means the location and size of the hole keeps

changing. Sometimes the peg fits and sometimes it doesn't.

The logical proces you are using needs to be reversed. The first

step is to gather information and formulate a hypothesis. What

you and others on this group are doing is forming a conclusion

and trying to fit the evidence to it. When the evidence doesn't fit

your conclusion the confusion and stress increases. This further

increases the complexity.

At some point we all have to stop figuring it out and pick a starting

point, any point, and see where it leads. If it works, great! If it

doesn't you use that information to pick a new starting point.

Yes, I know, this is burdensome and complicated. But do you

have a better method for when the information is contradictory

and the " experts " don't agree?

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

Im having a hard time understanding my situation and the mold that

was found in the a/c coils maybe someone can give me some insight on

my situation.

When we first moved into the house in May we ran the heater on several

occasions and it didn't effect me, as time went on and the weather

warmed up we ran the a/c twice and it still didnt bother me. Than about

a month ago I turned on the a/c and I've been symptomatic ever since.

The mold in the a/c coils didn't just appear over night this stuff had been

growing there for some time. Also, the previous owner ran the heater all

winter long wouldn't it have cross contaminated the entire house during

that time? Im fairly hypersensitive and can tell when I've been exposed

almost immediately why wouldn't I have reacted during the walk

through or the first month and half that I lived here? For about the first

two months that I lived here I thought the symptoms from my previous

mold exposure were all but gone, there was a point that it was so cold

outside that we had to have all the doors and windows closed and I was

darn near symptom free.

Could it be that I had built up a resistance and it took awhile for the

spores to tear it down, was it the air filter in the HVAC that finally

became so overloaded that whatever was in the a/c coils finally slipped

through and brought on my symptoms? None of this makes any sense to

me

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[Guest guest]

Carl thank you for the reply but I dont think it matters anymore, I've decided

to end my relationship with V and move south to my home town (south of the

Springs). Im in the process of putting Molly up for sale once she's gone so am

I.

Thanks for all your help

Tug

>

> Tug,

>

> I mean this delicately and lovingly for you and others here. I'm

> describing, not criticizing because we are dealing with great

> complexity.

>

> You are right about it it not making sense because the

> assumptions are incorrect, the logic doesn't fit the physical reality,

> and there is more to the situation than mold.

>

> You are putting a square peg into a round hole in a rubber

> membrane, which means the location and size of the hole keeps

> changing. Sometimes the peg fits and sometimes it doesn't.

>

> The logical proces you are using needs to be reversed. The first

> step is to gather information and formulate a hypothesis. What

> you and others on this group are doing is forming a conclusion

> and trying to fit the evidence to it. When the evidence doesn't fit

> your conclusion the confusion and stress increases. This further

> increases the complexity.

>

> At some point we all have to stop figuring it out and pick a starting

> point, any point, and see where it leads. If it works, great! If it

> doesn't you use that information to pick a new starting point.

>

> Yes, I know, this is burdensome and complicated. But do you

> have a better method for when the information is contradictory

> and the " experts " don't agree?

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

> Im having a hard time understanding my situation and the mold that

> was found in the a/c coils maybe someone can give me some insight on

> my situation.

>

> When we first moved into the house in May we ran the heater on several

> occasions and it didn't effect me, as time went on and the weather

> warmed up we ran the a/c twice and it still didnt bother me. Than about

> a month ago I turned on the a/c and I've been symptomatic ever since.

>

> The mold in the a/c coils didn't just appear over night this stuff had been

> growing there for some time. Also, the previous owner ran the heater all

> winter long wouldn't it have cross contaminated the entire house during

> that time? Im fairly hypersensitive and can tell when I've been exposed

> almost immediately why wouldn't I have reacted during the walk

> through or the first month and half that I lived here? For about the first

> two months that I lived here I thought the symptoms from my previous

> mold exposure were all but gone, there was a point that it was so cold

> outside that we had to have all the doors and windows closed and I was

> darn near symptom free.

>

> Could it be that I had built up a resistance and it took awhile for the

> spores to tear it down, was it the air filter in the HVAC that finally

> became so overloaded that whatever was in the a/c coils finally slipped

> through and brought on my symptoms? None of this makes any sense to

> me

>

>

>

> ----------

>

> The following section of this message contains a file attachment

> prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format.

> If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any other MIME-compliant system,

> you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.

> If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance.

>

> ---- File information -----------

> File: DEFAULT.BMP

> Date: 16 Jun 2009, 0:10

> Size: 358 bytes.

> Type: Unknown

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave,

Please refer to the AC suggestions I sent you. During heating season, the mold

in the drain pan is killed by the heat of the furnace. However, that dead mold,

plus any accumulated dust from inadequate filtration, is great mold nutrient.

When you first turned the AC on, there was not enough mold to react to. Maybe

even the second AC usage. However, after you turned the AC off, mold spores from

the inadequately filtered air found that drain pan (and coil) dust and grew

profusely because of the high relative humidity, probably over 90%, provided by

the water standing in the drain pan. That is why I always run my fan 2-3 hours

after turning the AC off. It dries out the pan. The relative humidity inside the

furnace will be no higher than in your living space. If you had run the AC

constantly, you probably wouldn't have had a problem. But running it only

ocasionally, without drying the drain pan, is asking for trouble. I have had

such reactions in almost brand new buildings which periodically shut off AC for

a few days or more.

This mold issue is a real learning experience. Hopefully you'll eventually

develop ways to cope and minimize your reactions.

Gil

Hard time understanding

Posted by: " Tug " tug_slug@... tug_slug

Date: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:27 am ((PDT))

Im having a hard time understanding my situation and the mold that was found in

the a/c coils maybe someone can give me some insight on my situation.

When we first moved into the house in May we ran the heater on several occasions

and it didn't effect me, as time went on and the weather warmed up we ran the

a/c twice and it still didnt bother me. Than about a month ago I turned on the

a/c and I've been symptomatic ever since.

The mold in the a/c coils didn't just appear over night this stuff had been

growing there for some time. Also, the previous owner ran the heater all winter

long wouldn't it have cross contaminated the entire house during that time? Im

fairly hypersensitive and can tell when I've been exposed almost immediately why

wouldn't I have reacted during the walk through or the first month and half that

I lived here? For about the first two months that I lived here I thought the

symptoms from my previous mold exposure were all but gone, there was a point

that it was so cold outside that we had to have all the doors and windows closed

and I was darn near symptom free.

Could it be that I had built up a resistance and it took awhile for the spores

to tear it down, was it the air filter in the HVAC that finally became so

overloaded that whatever was in the a/c coils finally slipped through and

brought on my symptoms? None of this makes any sense to me

[Guest guest]

Thanks Gil but it maybe to late for any of that. Once the a/c was turned on mold

spores spread throughout the entire house. Im sitting in the office which isnt

anywhere near the kitchen and I have a headache that feels like the back of my

head is going to explode.

Unless someone comes out with some magic cure within the next week I'll have no

choice but to move. I plan on moving back to my home town something I thought

I'd never do but for some reason I feel thats where I need to be. About the only

positive thing to come of this is I have 4 sealed garbage bags that contain a

few clothes that have been kept in the garage which werent cross contaminated so

at least I wont have to replace everything I own.

Tug

>

>

> Hi Dave,

>

> Please refer to the AC suggestions I sent you. During heating season, the

mold in the drain pan is killed by the heat of the furnace. However, that dead

mold, plus any accumulated dust from inadequate filtration, is great mold

nutrient. When you first turned the AC on, there was not enough mold to react

to. Maybe even the second AC usage. However, after you turned the AC off, mold

spores from the inadequately filtered air found that drain pan (and coil) dust

and grew profusely because of the high relative humidity, probably over 90%,

provided by the water standing in the drain pan. That is why I always run my fan

2-3 hours after turning the AC off. It dries out the pan. The relative humidity

inside the furnace will be no higher than in your living space. If you had run

the AC constantly, you probably wouldn't have had a problem. But running it only

ocasionally, without drying the drain pan, is asking for trouble. I have had

such reactions in almost brand new buildings which periodically shut off AC for

a few days or more.

> This mold issue is a real learning experience. Hopefully you'll eventually

develop ways to cope and minimize your reactions.

>

> Gil

>

[Guest guest]

Judging from what you have said Tug, it sounds to me like you have a summertime

problem in the house and your house might be quite liveable in the winter.

During the winter, you may be able to find out what is wrong and fix it or find

some place better to live. Since the hot sun makes it worse, could you live in

an extended stay arrangement or with friends or somewhere else until the air

conditioning season is over? Thats what I did with a summertime only problem in

my house.

>

>

> Thanks Gil but it maybe to late for any of that. Once the a/c was turned on

mold spores spread throughout the entire house. Im sitting in the office which

isnt anywhere near the kitchen and I have a headache that feels like the back of

my head is going to explode.

>

> Unless someone comes out with some magic cure within the next week I'll have

no choice but to move. I plan on moving back to my home town something I thought

I'd never do but for some reason I feel thats where I need to be. About the only

positive thing to come of this is I have 4 sealed garbage bags that contain a

few clothes that have been kept in the garage which werent cross contaminated so

at least I wont have to replace everything I own.

>

> Tug

>

[Guest guest]

Gil,

Is there a way to maintain and keep the coils clean? Is it something anyone can

do or do you need to have the unit serviced say just before the warm weather?

Thanks,Sam

Hi Dave,

Please refer to the AC suggestions I sent you. During heating season, the mold

in the drain pan is killed by the heat of the furnace. However, that dead mold,

plus any accumulated dust from inadequate filtration, is great mold nutrient.

When you first turned the AC on, there was not enough mold to react to. Maybe

even the second AC usage. However, after you turned the AC off, mold spores from

the inadequately filtered air found that drain pan (and coil) dust and grew

profusely because of the high relative humidity, probably over 90%, provided by

the water standing in the drain pan. That is why I always run my fan 2-3 hours

after turning the AC off. It dries out the pan. The relative humidity inside the

furnace will be no higher than in your living space.

[Guest guest]

Probably a stupid question, but I'll ask anyway... would a good air purifier

help? Mold is going to be everywhere. And these might help clean up the " mold

stew " as I think Shoemaker calls it.. the bacteria and other garbage as well?

Im wodnering about the IQAir or the Alen or BlueAir which remove way over 90% of

particals in the air.

The Blue Air has an ionizer and I dont know if thats good or bad with mold.

http://www.air-purifiers-america.com/lc_top10.asp?linkid=homeHero-top10

Robin

>

>

> Thanks Gil but it maybe to late for any of that. Once the a/c was turned on

mold spores spread throughout the entire house. Im sitting in the office which

isnt anywhere near the kitchen and I have a headache that feels like the back of

my head is going to explode.

>

> Unless someone comes out with some magic cure within the next week I'll have

no choice but to move. I plan on moving back to my home town something I thought

I'd never do but for some reason I feel thats where I need to be. About the only

positive thing to come of this is I have 4 sealed garbage bags that contain a

few clothes that have been kept in the garage which werent cross contaminated so

at least I wont have to replace everything I own.

>

> Tug

[Guest guest]

Barb I wish that were the case but I honestly feel this house has been crossed

contaminated and no matter how much I try to fix it it'll never be enough for me

to live here. Deep down I knew I was going to have to move but I honestly didnt

think it was going to happen till November when winter set in and it would have

been to cold to get fresh air.

I've been told on several occasions to stop spending money on property that cant

be fixed and to spend it on someplace that doesnt have known mold issues which

it appears I'll have no choice but to do. Having to make decisions that will

effect me for the rest of my life is difficult enough making these decisions

with a moldy brain only makes these decisions more difficult.

I have to get rid of my puppy because my future is so uncertain and it's almost

like she knows what Im thinking as she refuses to leave my side. God how much

more do I have to take before the pain stops?

>

>

> Judging from what you have said Tug, it sounds to me like you have a

summertime problem in the house and your house might be quite liveable in the

winter. During the winter, you may be able to find out what is wrong and fix it

or find some place better to live. Since the hot sun makes it worse, could you

live in an extended stay arrangement or with friends or somewhere else until the

air conditioning season is over? Thats what I did with a summertime only

problem in my house.

[Guest guest]

Robin, I have an IQAir air purifer but have yet to use it extensively because I

can keep the windows open and get fresh air, what I planned on doing was using

it this winter when its to cold to keep the windows open. What little I have

used it did make a small difference.

Also, I had another mold remediater over the other day and as a small favor he

left a commercial air scrubber for 4 days. As much noise as this thing makes

it's made very little difference on my foggy brain or the headaches I've been

experiencing

>

> Probably a stupid question, but I'll ask anyway... would a good air purifier

help? Mold is going to be everywhere. And these might help clean up the " mold

stew " as I think Shoemaker calls it.. the bacteria and other garbage as well?

>

> Im wodnering about the IQAir or the Alen or BlueAir which remove way over 90%

of particals in the air.

>

> The Blue Air has an ionizer and I dont know if thats good or bad with mold.

>

> http://www.air-purifiers-america.com/lc_top10.asp?linkid=homeHero-top10

>

> Robin

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, they do help a lot! The only thing, don't get the kind which produces any

kind of substance...I forgot what the name of the substance is but all you need

is one which sucks the air through pretty good and filters it.

Also, get a good filter for your return vent if you have central heating.

>

> Probably a stupid question, but I'll ask anyway... would a good air purifier

help? Mold is going to be everywhere. And these might help clean up the " mold

stew " as I think Shoemaker calls it.. the bacteria and other garbage as well?

>

> Im wodnering about the IQAir or the Alen or BlueAir which remove way over 90%

of particals in the air.

>

> The Blue Air has an ionizer and I dont know if thats good or bad with mold.

>

> http://www.air-purifiers-america.com/lc_top10.asp?linkid=homeHero-top10

>

> Robin

>

[Guest guest]

Air purifiers made a huge difference in my respiratory symptoms.  I've heard

NOT

TO use the ionizer.  Also, there is an allergy site that does comparisons for

you.  I'll try to find the exact site.  It was very helpful to me.  What I

discovered was that more expensive is not necessarily better.  Again, I don't

know if you've already visited this allergy website, but I've found it helpful

for products, etc.

Not feeling well at all today, but I'll try to get the info to you, Robin!

sally

________________________________

From: CU <jackiebreeze@...>

Sent: Fri, August 20, 2010 7:53:00 AM

Subject: [] Re: Hard time understanding

 

Yes, they do help a lot! The only thing, don't get the kind which produces any

kind of substance...I forgot what the name of the substance is but all you need

is one which sucks the air through pretty good and filters it.

Also, get a good filter for your return vent if you have central heating.

[Guest guest]

Were you thinking of ozone?

> >

> > Probably a stupid question, but I'll ask anyway... would a good air purifier

help? Mold is going to be everywhere. And these might help clean up the " mold

stew " as I think Shoemaker calls it.. the bacteria and other garbage as well?

> >

> > Im wodnering about the IQAir or the Alen or BlueAir which remove way over

90% of particals in the air.

> >

> > The Blue Air has an ionizer and I dont know if thats good or bad with mold.

> >

> > http://www.air-purifiers-america.com/lc_top10.asp?linkid=homeHero-top10

> >

> > Robin

> >

>