Re: Plastic and Possibly Non Porous Items

[Guest guest]

Robin, extreme avoidance means exactly that and there's only one way that I know

of to rid yourself of the micotoxins that are currently making you and your

family ill. Some here have tried to remediate their belongings with marginal

success while others have failed and cross contaminated their new surroundings

and have had to move again and start all over. When I first became exposed I was

told to go as cheap as possible when replacing my things just in case I somehow

cross contamineted my new residence. I can tell you this is going to be one of

the most difficult periods of your life not to mention the most expensive.

>

> Im not sure all the items I am thinking about are all non porous...

>

> Cell phones

> Computers (Im thinking dust in key boards and dust that gets in the computer

can be an issue)

> CDs and DVDs

> Glass Items that can be washed well

> Pots and Pans, utensils, dishware

>

> looks like wooden furniture would be porous and I can see how its near

impossible to get every speck of dust off of our glass and steel tables as

well..

>

> What do you all think or have experience with trying to use these items?

>

> How did you wash the items you saved and took with you?

>

> There is really no way to ever be spore and mycotoxin free is there.. we are

always exposed even to stachy? Its aout getting the loads down as far as we can?

>

> Thank you.:-)

>

> Robin

>

[Guest guest]

I found that wood and paper or cardboard stuff could not be saved. However, some

really old books of my husband's are sealed up with baking soda in my Mom's

house because they were too valuable to throw away. I haven't opened the box yet

and its been at least 4 years. My Mom's house is very dry-is there a possibility

the mold has dried? I know even dried " dead " mold is alive and can be toxic so

I'm skeptical about bringing these books home.

I was able to wash most cloth things out in bleach and vinegar and saved some

baby blankets like that. Sad to say everything else went in the garbage more

from fear than anything else.

>

> Im not sure all the items I am thinking about are all non porous...

>

> Cell phones

> Computers (Im thinking dust in key boards and dust that gets in the computer

can be an issue)

> CDs and DVDs

> Glass Items that can be washed well

> Pots and Pans, utensils, dishware

>

> looks like wooden furniture would be porous and I can see how its near

impossible to get every speck of dust off of our glass and steel tables as

well..

>

> What do you all think or have experience with trying to use these items?

>

> How did you wash the items you saved and took with you?

>

> There is really no way to ever be spore and mycotoxin free is there.. we are

always exposed even to stachy? Its aout getting the loads down as far as we can?

>

> Thank you.:-)

>

> Robin

>

[Guest guest]

heres the thing Tug, it's actually impossable to deturmine what you are reacting

to after your exposure in a WDB. it takes a lot of time and mistakes before you

really start reconizeing any and all the things that might cause you to react.

and still you may never realize them all. I dont know if you can really trust

your sence of smell completely during this time either, yes our smelling sence

in hyperactive, but other smells that can be very close to or have some of the

same properties envolved of smells from our WDB exposure might confuse our

sences, and we can have a reaction from a smell based on a memory that ties to

that smell and it may not actually mean that the smell is toxic, kind of like

now with this illness stress can cause symptoms that stress never caused you to

have before.

many people that seek online help, depending on where they go and who they talk

to,or read first can get information that may or may not be

the best information.

when people already fell like they are dieing or something close to that, I dont

think they need to be scared out of their wits, it doesn't help the situation,

and some of these people have had very mild exposure and

may be in a situation where their belongings, home and health can be dealt with

in a way that does not need to be extreme in the sence of screaming at them to

leave everything behind and never look back.

all exposures are not the same. yes, telling them to get out is very important,

but you cant deturmine if they can save their belongings, their house or weither

they are reacting to a cross contamination problem or something else in their

environment.

there is a certain intencity to our reactions after exposure that just makes us

have horable reactions to the tinest amounts of many chemicals/toxins and

depending on just how bad they have suffered tissue and organ damage on top of

this ,I think , can make even

non-toxic irritants miserable for them. so theres just a hogwash of things going

on and a person needs to have some time in a clean environment to get to felling

better and thinking better but it's not always possable and theres still effects

going on in the body from exposure that take time to mellow out.

the problem is that we all cant just vacate our home,apartment or whatever ,

leave our belongings there for a year, five years,ten years, or however long it

takes until we fell able to deal with that.

most of us have to deal with it one way or another.

yes, if you bring all the stuff from your home to a new place you are basicly

still in a toxic invironment cause your still breathing these contaminated

things, some right under your nose.

matresses and pillows,couches,stuffed chairs, would probably be one things on

the list you really dont even need to try to save unless the contamination was

mild and they can be cleaned, but dealing with something we cant even see makes

that difficult. so we have to really on our noses and our reactivity.

that kindof leaves us with cleaning things and seeing if they still affect us at

some point. and the reaction may be more dependable than the nose.

and you just cant do this if there is something else in that invironment that is

causeing a reaction.

if we are in a environment where other things are affecting us, it's going to be

hard to imposable to deturmine if it's something in our invironment allready or

something we cleaned and brought from our WDB .

if you think about cross contamination, what does that mean?

cross contamination does not mean you brought something into your new

invironment from your WDB that is causeing you to react, that means you need to

put that object somewhere else, storage or somewhere where you are not breathing

near it.

if you put it somewhere where moisture is a problem than yes, it may cause mold

growth and cross contaminate everything else that is there. if a contaminated

couch has a moisture content to it it may still grow mold and produce mycotoxins

and VOC's, however not all WDB have such a high moisture problem to causse

everything to soak up moisture like a sponge. but things that do, and even some

wood furniture can, need to be thrown away.

wood furniture dried,may at some point become less of a problem ,maybe,maybe

not.

personally I dont think mycotoxins themselfs have much ability to cross

contaminate, mycotoxins dont grow and reproduce, mold does. it would take alot

of dust, full of mycotoxins getting

dislodged or airborn from a object to contaminate another area, and other than

breathing that dry toxic dust, it would take a moisture sorce for it to start

the growth of mold.

but something with mold growth, still damp would be more likely to cause cross

contamination.

when you are reacting to something from your WDB it is still

offgassing,hence,the smell. seems like VOC's and MVOC's would be playing a big

role here, if the object doesn't have mold growth and/or a large amount of toxic

dust that is getting airborne, seems like you would mainly be reacting to voc's

offgassing.

I dont think most people live with a high amount of dust colected on there

belongings, but yes dust does get in the cracks of furniture.

mycotoxins would get captured and land on furniture that has been in a high

moisture situation where a high output of voc's,mvoc's,mold and whatever else

thats there,this might cause a type of coating to cover most of your belongings,

this can be difficult to remove.this happened in my second home and when trying

to clean things it showed itself as green in color.

I had to throw most things away, but was able to wash some bedding, cloths, but

even threw some of them away because they just were not saveable, had mold spots

or just wasn't worth the effort or expence.

when I went back to try to get other things to save there was spots of mold

growth on everthing, so yes, in this type of situation you are better off just

walking away and leaveing evertything behind.

but this home had a severe moisture problem where the humidity was twice as high

inside as it was outside, checked at different times of the year. this home

suffered problems and mold growth for 20+ years prior to it being rigged up for

sale.

this home gave eveyone that came there, even for a short period of time,

headackes, stomach ackes, and problems with not being able to stay awake. people

that buy old broken down homes that are obviously

severely mold contaminated with animals liveing in them should be shot for

rigging them up and presenting them as nice liveable homes.

exspecially when they were long time real estate agents and fricken knew exactly

what they were doing. and no doubt have done it before.

and if you want to know just how stupied the public is about WDB's,

the bank recently sold this home and 5 acres because I refused to.

they sold for the acreage, stateing that the home was unliveable but guess what,

who ever bought it is liveing in it. now I know for a fact that now matter what

they did to try and remediated the problem, they didn't. theres one spot were

the brick part of the home was cracked all the way down to the foundation, this

was the main spot where the mold growth was worst, it was repaired, if you call

it that, before I bought it, however theres no access to this area underneath

the home and it's really bad under there. this was one area where right above it

in the house mold was growing back through the new sheetrock and wood trimming

and up through the new wood floor.

on top of that the roof had mutiple leaks, the blown in insulation was badly

contaminated. and the short time that I lived there those animals where

deturmined to get their home back.

ever met a rattle snake in your laundry room? not fun.

I'm a animal lover but I dont want them in my home.

the exact oppisite of this WDB exposure might be my first WDB exposure where the

main contamination was on the third floor because of roof leaks. yes some run

clear to the basement. however, these walls were plaster, this home overall was

very dry, the wetting and mold growth dried inbetween rains and I was mostly

getting exposed to dry toxic dust by liveing on the floors below this, and when

the wind blew I was getting exposed to higher amounts of dry toxic dust. now

toxic dust gets inbeaded into matresses,couches,ect. and you dont want to try to

save them either if you fell that it's inbedded to far in to be cleanable,

everytime you set on these you could be causeing airborn toxins, but as far as

cleaning most other things the dust is mainly on the surface and

I think more saveable.

when I boxed my belongings up to take to this second house, there was still many

things boxed up that I hadn't upacked yet cause I didn't live there long enough

to get around to it. some of those thing were savable but depending on what type

of containers they were in made a difference, some boxes became moisture soaked

and the things in them were damaged. some things I had in sealed plastic

contaners were washable and saveable. oh how I wish all my pictures and

negitives would have been in one of these contaners but I had my oldest pictures

in a wooden chest and they didn't do so well and I had to throw them all away.

thats my biggest regret. I could have lost everything else and not cared but

that hurt. and still does.

I saved pictures that were in frames, just threw the frames away.

I too have some very old books still stored away that I'm hopeing some day I can

tolerate again, but cant bring myself to see yet if I can tolerate them. I wiped

them down best I could and stored them.

my days of infactuation with reading old books is done.

I cant even tolerate going into book stores or libaries and most antique

auctions or antique stores so thats just another one of my hobbies that I can no

longer do.

but anyway, I have to say that to me cross contamination is the act of direct

contaminated things in direct contact with non-contaminated things,like prufume

rubbing off of someones body onto a stuffed chair or couch, surface

contamination and might be cleanable.

or wet damp contaminated things produceing mold growth that can contaminate

previous non-contaminated things.

as far as dry toxic dust, maybe not so much a issue of cross contamination

unless it's somewhere where theres a moisture supply.

yes, if theres toxic dust and it becomes airborn and you inhale it, it's going

to make you sick/react. dry toxic dust comes in different doses. for us, it

doesn't take much, but as far as cleaning things with dry toxic dust and what

might remain in cracks and weither that might possabily become airborne or not,

I dont think that would be a big issue.

paper seems to be a issue all on it's own, even papers in the dry toxic mold

environment have absorbed a smell and I cant tolerate it

,like the books, but some pictures from this environment that have been framed

dont bother me, and they haven't went on to grow mold.

so, really, other than screaming and stressing out new comers more than they are

already stressed over their situation, we need to find ways of convaying

information is a more constructive maner.

if you still dont get it, let me tell you that when I came to this group in

2006, I dealt with a extremest that caused me alot of stress over the situation

that I didn't need. I really just would want to kick his ass if I met him now.

do you get that?

and I had already left my WDB environments, can you imagion how he effected some

that were still in their WDB's? having depression,anixity,brain functioning

disabilities,ect.

support is the goal, not stress.

we have to try to give them good advice without adding to their stress level.

there has got to be a way to convay to new comers their need to remove theirself

from that WDB without causesing added stress.

many with families just cant afford to replace everthing and maybe they dont

have to. every exposure is different.

I know from my two seperate exposures just how different they can be.

I suffered much from my first exposure but I also know that I'd be doing a whole

lot better now if I hadn't had the second exposure.

> >

> > Im not sure all the items I am thinking about are all non porous...

> >

> > Cell phones

> > Computers (Im thinking dust in key boards and dust that gets in the computer

can be an issue)

> > CDs and DVDs

> > Glass Items that can be washed well

> > Pots and Pans, utensils, dishware

> >

> > looks like wooden furniture would be porous and I can see how its near

impossible to get every speck of dust off of our glass and steel tables as

well..

> >

> > What do you all think or have experience with trying to use these items?

> >

> > How did you wash the items you saved and took with you?

> >

> > There is really no way to ever be spore and mycotoxin free is there.. we are

always exposed even to stachy? Its aout getting the loads down as far as we can?

> >

> > Thank you.:-)

> >

> > Robin

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Tug, you are so right!  As I'm experiencing this process of treatment and

re-creating what life means after these repeated re-exposures, I recognize the

wisdom of letting go of attachments to material possessions.  Nothing is worth

the threat to our very lives, right?  There can be insights and awarenesses we

discover about ourselves and life along this journey, but it can be so

discouraging.  It's like mourning an old friend:  our lives as we knew them

before this toxic takeover.  I'm working on reframing the experience and

focusing on blessings rather than deficits.  It's a daily commitment!  Thanks,

all, for sharing so generously with those of us just really beginning to grapple

with this injury/disability.  GRRRR...some bosses/property owners are so

cavalier about others' health.  When I beg my building managers not to use this

horrible, chemical air freshener in our laundry rooms, stairways, and building

elevators, they " shine me on. "   I know they think I'm over-reacting; however,

for the past four months, the previously annoying smells and chemicals present a

real threat to my well-being.  My lungs/head/cognitions/emotions flare with

each

new exposure, and those who don't live with this reality so easily dismiss our

concerns.  Perhaps with increasing acceptance of the research, we'll benefit

and

have more rights.  I was told by my building owner that I could move if I had a

problem with the neighbors' smoke and the pesticides/chemicals that adversely

impact my health.  I can't afford to move, as I've had to replace everything. 

Ah, well...sorry to whine.  Good thoughts, everyone!

________________________________

From: Tug <tug_slug@...>

Sent: Sun, August 8, 2010 5:45:22 AM

Subject: [] Re: Plastic and Possibly Non Porous Items

 

Robin, extreme avoidance means exactly that and there's only one way that I know

of to rid yourself of the micotoxins that are currently making you and your

family ill. Some here have tried to remediate their belongings with marginal

success while others have failed and cross contaminated their new surroundings

and have had to move again and start all over. When I first became exposed I was

told to go as cheap as possible when replacing my things just in case I somehow

cross contamineted my new residence. I can tell you this is going to be one of

the most difficult periods of your life not to mention the most expensive.

[Guest guest]

I was advised by remediator and by dr. to wash hard items, wash

clothing, fabrics several times, and not to bring papers, mattresses,

stuffed furniture, but I am giving a lot of this other stuff away, there

is no mold growing on it and unless a person is hypersensitive it

shouldn't harm other people, so with books I am taking to the used book

store (where I am sure there are mustier books already in the book

store, mine don't smell musty at all) and getting credit so my healthy

kid can buy new books, took wood furniture & washed it, same with dishes

and stuff, we just have neither the time or money to shop and buy all

new stuff at once for 4 family members so this is how we are doing it,

and this is contrary to what some people on this list who have

personally been thru it recommend, as in dump everything and start over

100% from scratch. also we brought our electronics with us. i

recognize we may be bringing mycotoxin and mold with us, but....

sue v

>Im not sure all the items I am thinking about are all non porous...

>

>Cell phones

>Computers (Im thinking dust in key boards and dust that gets in the

>computer can be an issue)

>CDs and DVDs

>Glass Items that can be washed well

>Pots and Pans, utensils, dishware

>

>looks like wooden furniture would be porous and I can see how its near

>impossible to get every speck of dust off of our glass and steel tables

>as well..

>

>What do you all think or have experience with trying to use these items?

>

>How did you wash the items you saved and took with you?

>

>There is really no way to ever be spore and mycotoxin free is there.. we

>are always exposed even to stachy? Its aout getting the loads down as

>far as we can?

>

>Thank you.:-)

>

>Robin

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I understand where your coming from and I never intended to cause anymore stress

on the OP than shes already experiencing.

It sounds like Robin is a victim of a botched remediation and has lived in her

contaminated house for at least 4 months. Beings shes already hypersensitive to

mold whats the chances of someone coming in and cleaning up not only her house

but her belongings enough so she can not only live there but recover? If she

does decide to move how will she decide whats safe and whats not? I was

initially exposed for 1 month, when I first moved out and into a friends house

all I took with me was my clothes not knowing about mictoxons and cross

contamination I brought just enough mictoxins with me to make me sick thus

causing me to move again. More recently we called a company that specializes in

vapor barriers for a crawl space when they went into the crawl space to see what

needed to be done I was told there was mold on the floor joists. I hired Carl

and he said it wasn't toxic mold but rather lumber yard mold and wasn't what was

making me sick ( I'm paraphrasing, sorry Carl). We had the vapor barrier

installed by another company and because of the VOC's that are still floating

around on the crawl space and the house I'm still symptomatic and am now looking

for a safe place for me to live. This is frustrating for everyone, no one knows

this more than me. I'm using my cell phone to type this response I apologize if

I have offended anyone

>

> heres the thing Tug, it's actually impossable to deturmine what you are

reacting to after your exposure in a WDB. it takes a lot of time and mistakes

before you really start reconizeing any and all the things that might cause you

to react. and still you may never realize them all. I dont know if you can

really trust your sence of smell completely during this time either, yes our

smelling sence in hyperactive, but other smells that can be very close to or

have some of the same properties envolved of smells from our WDB exposure might

confuse our sences, and we can have a reaction from a smell based on a memory

that ties to that smell and it may not actually mean that the smell is toxic,

kind of like now with this illness stress can cause symptoms that stress never

caused you to have before.

[Guest guest]

I'm still not getting how you can be so sure you cross contaminated

your friends house and why you keep refering to just mycotoxins.

takeing your cloths could keep you reacting if they are in the same room that

your sleeping in,and your wearing them, but it's not just about mycotoxins. did

you try removeing your cloths and washing the bedding that you slept on and than

see if you could than stay at your friends house? I know that I couldn't

tolerate many things in my daughters house, purfumes, scented candles, plus.

>

>

>

> I understand where your coming from and I never intended to cause anymore

stress on the OP than shes already experiencing.

>

> It sounds like Robin is a victim of a botched remediation and has lived in her

contaminated house for at least 4 months. Beings shes already hypersensitive to

mold whats the chances of someone coming in and cleaning up not only her house

but her belongings enough so she can not only live there but recover? If she

does decide to move how will she decide whats safe and whats not? I was

initially exposed for 1 month, when I first moved out and into a friends house

all I took with me was my clothes not knowing about mictoxons and cross

contamination I brought just enough mictoxins with me to make me sick thus

causing me to move again. More recently we called a company that specializes in

vapor barriers for a crawl space when they went into the crawl space to see what

needed to be done I was told there was mold on the floor joists. I hired Carl

and he said it wasn't toxic mold but rather lumber yard mold and wasn't what was

making me sick ( I'm paraphrasing, sorry Carl). We had the vapor barrier

installed by another company and because of the VOC's that are still floating

around on the crawl space and the house I'm still symptomatic and am now looking

for a safe place for me to live. This is frustrating for everyone, no one knows

this more than me. I'm using my cell phone to type this response I apologize if

I have offended anyone

>

[Guest guest]

Tug,

You got it mostly right. But don't worry about that because we

covered a lot of information and discovered more than one

problem.

My point was the crawlspace was growing mold and bacteria and

who knows what else in the damp soil. Much of which is typically

chemical in nature and not the spores themselves. But the

crawlspace was not growing mold on the joists. It was already

there and of a different kind. Because it is not growing and if left

undisturbed this is not the primary problem.

Also, an equally important exposure was the fragranced laundry

detergent and dryer sheets. These chemicals are in the same

family (VOCs) as those given off by mold and bacteria.

You are experiencing a combination of exposures. Addressing

only one won't stop the reactions. All have to be stopped or

significantly reduced for your body to stop reacting.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

I understand where your coming from and I never intended to cause anymore stress

on the OP than shes already experiencing.

It sounds like Robin is a victim of a botched remediation and has lived in her

contaminated house for at least 4 months. Beings shes already hypersensitive to

mold whats the chances of someone coming in and cleaning up not only her house

but her belongings enough so she can not only live there but recover? If she

does decide to move how will she decide whats safe and whats not? I was

initially exposed for 1 month, when I first moved out and into a friends house

all I took with me was my clothes not knowing about mictoxons and cross

contamination I brought just enough mictoxins with me to make me sick thus

causing me to move again. More recently we called a company that specializes in

vapor barriers for a crawl space when they went into the crawl space to see what

needed to be done I was told there was mold on the floor joists. I hired Carl

and he said it wasn't toxic mold but rather lumber yard mold and wasn't what was

making me sick ( I'm paraphrasing, sorry Carl). We had the vapor

barrier installed by anot

>

> heres the thing Tug, it's actually impossable to deturmine what you are

reacting to after your exposure in a WDB. it takes a lot of time and mistakes

before you really start reconizeing any and all the things that might cause you

to react. and still you may never realize them all. I dont know if you can

really trust your sence of smell completely during this time either, yes our

smelling sence in hyperactive, but other smells that can be very close to or

have some of the same properties envolved of smells from our WDB exposure might

confuse our sences, and we can have a reaction from a smell based on a memory

that ties to that smell and it may not actually mean that the smell is toxic,

kind of like now with this illness stress can cause symptoms that stress never

caused you to have before.

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[Guest guest]

Extreme avoidance is almost impossible, isn't it? I have succeeded in making my

life mold free but every 6 months or so I get an unlikely and unexpected

exposure. I have come to terms with the fact that mold is everywhere and is

alive and it grows and extreme total avoidance is never going to happen.

My latest unfortunate exposure was twofold: my brother's house, which became

infested with mold over last year and when I paid a condolence call I stayed

longer than I should have (when I felt the mold I left!) and my synagogue has

become impossible. So much for my spiritual life! But I was sick for a few weeks

because of these two and it's very depressing.

>

> Robin, extreme avoidance means exactly that and there's only one way that I

know of to rid yourself of the micotoxins that are currently making you and your

family ill. Some here have tried to remediate their belongings with marginal

success while others have failed and cross contaminated their new surroundings

and have had to move again and start all over. When I first became exposed I was

told to go as cheap as possible when replacing my things just in case I somehow

cross contamineted my new residence. I can tell you this is going to be one of

the most difficult periods of your life not to mention the most expensive.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sue, I think you are doing what's good for you. I agree that because mold is

such a " rich person's " problem, in other words, if I had tons of money I'd be

healthier than I am now. It took me a year to finally clean out the basement

that was making me sick because I had no help and I couldn't do it myself. In

the end I found some guys who would do it for $150 but that meant that they went

down there alone and just threw things out-I was able to save almost nothing

because the choice was supervise and get sick or throw. I went with throw.

It's hard to do everything-I think it's great that we can get amazing help and

advice on line but everyone has to know that each person limitations are

different and that's the way it goes.

Don;t stress over not doing everything-believe me if a piece of furniture still

bothers you you will throw it out. It doesn't hurt to try, especially if it's a

financial issue!

>

> I was advised by remediator and by dr. to wash hard items, wash

> clothing, fabrics several times, and not to bring papers, mattresses,

> stuffed furniture, but I am giving a lot of this other stuff away, there

> is no mold growing on it and unless a person is hypersensitive it

> shouldn't harm other people, so with books I am taking to the used book

> store (where I am sure there are mustier books already in the book

> store, mine don't smell musty at all) and getting credit so my healthy

> kid can buy new books, took wood furniture & washed it, same with dishes

> and stuff, we just have neither the time or money to shop and buy all

> new stuff at once for 4 family members so this is how we are doing

[Guest guest]

Before I reply to Carl's response I would like to say to those who he's given

advice to on this forum have no idea the knowledge and wisdom this man has. I've

emailed him countless number of times and have read many of his posts here but

to actually get a chance to meet him and see just how much he really knows was a

privilege.

Carl, you were absolutely right about the crawl space the musty odor that I was

so worried about is slowly going away and believe it or not Im actually started

to feel a little bit better. The one area that I cant believe were still having

a problem with is the bedroom. V has started to wash her clothes with a

detergent that was mentioned on here (cant remember the name) and ammonia. I've

was a little leery about the ammonia so we washed the sheets first, I slept on

the sofa with them and had no ill effects the following day so we knew that it

was safe.

V and I were having a heart to heart talk this morning after I sent you the

email and she said she was frustrated but was by no means ready to give up on

making this work. During the conversation we had the windows and doors open to

both bedrooms and there was a breeze blowing from master to the guest bedroom

and literally within seconds I started to get light headed and had to close the

door to the master bedroom. Im sure the detergent and fabric softener are whats

making me sick but the closet door where she keeps her clothes was closed so Im

thinking that it could very well be as you suggested the mattress that a

contributing factor as well. We put plastic on the mattress as you suggested but

because I slept on the sofa last night V took it off so she could sleep more

comfortably.

>

> Tug,

>

> You got it mostly right. But don't worry about that because we

> covered a lot of information and discovered more than one

> problem.

>

> My point was the crawlspace was growing mold and bacteria and

> who knows what else in the damp soil. Much of which is typically

> chemical in nature and not the spores themselves. But the

> crawlspace was not growing mold on the joists. It was already

> there and of a different kind. Because it is not growing and if left

> undisturbed this is not the primary problem.

>

> Also, an equally important exposure was the fragranced laundry

> detergent and dryer sheets. These chemicals are in the same

> family (VOCs) as those given off by mold and bacteria.

>

> You are experiencing a combination of exposures. Addressing

> only one won't stop the reactions. All have to be stopped or

> significantly reduced for your body to stop reacting.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

[Guest guest]

Thank you for all the info.. we are only taking the dog. Now I know to have the

crawlspace of new location evaluated (even for lumber mold) and have a vapor

barrier put in..

I can cut some of my hair off as well.. I dont think my daughter will go for

that though.. Im guesising more hair off the better.

We will drive down in my car.. getting cleaned and then have another car there

for us (thanks to family).. getting the dog shampooed again and will continue

weekly.. new clothes ordered and waiting, bedding, towels, etc.. old clotes take

off in garage, bag up and trash.

thank you!!!

Robin

>

> I'm still not getting how you can be so sure you cross contaminated

> your friends house and why you keep refering to just mycotoxins.

> takeing your cloths could keep you reacting if they are in the same room that

your sleeping in,and your wearing them, but it's not just about mycotoxins. did

you try removeing your cloths and washing the bedding that you slept on and than

see if you could than stay at your friends house? I know that I couldn't

tolerate many things in my daughters house, purfumes, scented candles, plus.

>

>