Re: Changing Behaviors

[Guest guest]

Seems to me that one could use/adapt the notion of a stages of change model to

both assess and, via motivational enhancement, try to move individuals toward a

state/stage more conducive to change. Motivation need not be considered such an

elusive topic...but I do think when we start discussing it in terms of Maslow

and self-actualization and peak moments, we make it more abstract than it needs

to be and difficult for those who need motivation to grasp. It is a balance of

social norms and individual values and goals.

Jack Darkes, Ph.D.

Tampa FL

________________________________

From: Supertraining on behalf of Hobman

Sent: Sat 11/29/2008 10:26 AM

To: Supertraining

Subject: Re: Changing Behaviors

Very interesting post Ken. I certainly agree that social norms are

simply one piece in the puzzle and your point on internally versus

extrinsically motivated people is so true. At best social norms will

catch a segment.

When your book is published (or even before if you are willing to

trust me I'll buy a copy when it comes out and will send me the

electronic version) I'd love to be on the top of the list to read it.

One point - we aren't interested in measuring vague concepts of

'motivation'. My interest is actual behavioural change. So my measure

is very simple - activity (using the Godin instrument). And the

problem is defined simply - 75% of the Canadian population is not

active enough for health benefits.

> It seems to me there are a number of causal explanations in relation

> to what inhibits or prevents persons from changing behaviors - be it

> fitness, obesity, substance abuse, or whatever. Studying peer pressure

> and socially normative causes may well address what Reisman termed

> " other directed " individuals only up to a point.

>

> Perhaps the most salient factor is the normal waking social trance, a

> kind of post-hypnotic state induced by bombardment with propaganda and

> advertising aimed at creating and maintaining tastes and normative

> lifestyles, maintained by systems of authority legitimizing those

> behaviors as popular culture, spanning the period from womb to tomb.

> We do not witness governmental agencies engaging in up front

> condemnation of fast foods (known as " chew and spew " in Australia),

> high simple carbohydrate foods, colas, and myriad other junk

> contributing to our poor physical condition. The question here is how

> to wake folks up from the dominant social trance?

>

> Most astonishing to me is the wholesale disregard of Tufts University

> of now 20 years ago which established that sarcopenia is not a

> condition of normal aging but, instead, a major cause of aging. What's

> more, the Tufts group also established what we today call metabolic

> syndrome was an outcome of sarcopenia (see the 1992 landmark

> publication Bio-Markers for more information). Based on that evidence,

> Wayne Westcott, PhD, of the South Bay YMCA in Quincy, MA, began

> studies aimed at arresting and reversing sarcopenia along with

> associated metabolic syndrome dis-eases. His numerous papers and two

> books published by Human Kinetics well testify to the efficacy of

> stength training in promoting health.

>

> Some months ago I commented to my physician that in my sarcastic

> moments I'm inclined to ascribe cause to Big Pharm for knowledge of

> Tufts/Westcott's work not trickling down to the practices of

> physicians. He replied that I'd mis-identified those moments as

> sarcastic when, in point of fact, they represent lucid insight!

>

> A cartel of invested monopolies would bode poorly if reliance on pills

> and powders, rescue effort medical interventions became far less

> common place due to individuals being trained and educated in habits

> leading to autonomous self-care and prevention. Reversing metabolic

> syndrome means, in practical terms, loss of billions of dollars of

> income for pills and powders, etc. treating symptoms rather than

> addressing causes.

>

> I don't wish to propose a conspiracy theory in this matter. I do

> subscribe to the notion that we've failed miserably at powerful and

> appropriate measures to insure effective health education measure not

> by action but by outcomes measured in reduction of disease.

>

> Discussion of motivation seems rather vague, like talking of angels.

> How is motivation measured? Is it, like therapeutic resistance, an

> abstraction without solid connection to behavior or cognitive

> strategies of which " motivation " is an action oriented outcome state?

>

> Often what motivates or moves persons is scaring the crap out of them.

> But as Maslow showed, echoing the wisdom of Buddhism, moments of

> transcending one's normative operational states can be powerful yet

> last no more than 72 hours for the most part; the momentum of

> mediocrity is too deeply instilled for most people to achieve a state

> of continuity in new insights resulting in new behavioral norms - that

> is, they easily fall off the wagon, back into dominant delusions.

> After all, dissociative identification states is another way of saying

> normative!

>

> I see such lapses constantly. People come to the gym with doctor

> recommendations. Most are convinced the dangerous, life threatening

> statin drugs will save them - without CoQ10. Or other meds for other

> sarcopenia related conditions. Those good intentions last a few weeks.

> Most are too complacent, too lazy, and too comfortable with lifestyles

> that are killing them. But can you blame them? Hell, no. They're

> diseases are powerful outcomes of a system of marketing that works.

>

> New proposals for health care in the United States don't even get to

> consideration of the problem. I'd rather see empowerment and

> endorsement of gyms throughout the nation serving as centers of

> integrative health care addressing the real issues. Let's attach the

> problem at the level of causes rather than weakly treating symptoms in

> a system enabling co-dependent addictive relationships profitting only

> certain vested interests at the expense of the health of a nation.

>

> Watch for my book on the topic, one intended to do it's part to

> promote a health care revolution.

>

> best regards,

>

> Ken O'Neill

> Austin, Texas

>

>

>

> >

> > To me its a huge issue. People intend to be more active - they try -

> > they understand the benefit - and yet they are unable to change

> > behaviour. Why? I've got a population of 320 office workers that we

> > are exposing to three information conditions (plus a control

> > condition) to try and see what actually changes behaviour. The

> control

> > is simply to inform on physical activity, with three motivations

> added

> > for the other groups. One group gets a health motivation, another

> > appearance and the third a social normative motivation. Could be

> > interesting to see what actually changes behaviour.

> >

> > The idea is similar to the music concert. At the end everyone

> > applauds. If you ask them " what motivated you to applaud " the

> majority

> > would identify something like " loved the music " or " appreciated the

> > talent " . But the reality is the majority of people applauded because

> > everyone else was. Social normative behaviour. No one would identify

> > this, but in reality it is the motivator. ie. Nobody stands and

> > applauds after listening to a music cd. Well, maybe a few. But

> you get

> > the idea.

> >

> > Hobman

> > Saskatoon, Canada

> >

>

[Guest guest]

:

Thanks for the clarification. Now you've got me intrigued wondering

how specifically you'll measure actual behavioral change - and for how

long to determine if the awakening has really stuck and change

occurred. In my reckoning, some valuative change, conscious or not,

seems to have to occur - literally, a change of heart (I call it

transvaluative experience). To that end, I would imagine a before and

after questionaire might provide indication of the depth of

attitudinal shift, or not!

best

Ken O'Neill

Austin, Texas

>

> One point - we aren't interested in measuring vague concepts of

> 'motivation'. My interest is actual behavioural change. So my measure

> is very simple - activity (using the Godin instrument). And the

> problem is defined simply - 75% of the Canadian population is not

> active enough for health benefits.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I've been following this too with interest. I've been able to become a

regular exerciser since I quit smoking in 1990, probably because of the good

example of my parents (my mother is still living, and at age 77 walks every

day).

However, it seems to do little good in my battle against being overweight.

About 10 years ago I lost 50 pounds, down to what my doctor considered a

normal weight for me. The overwhelming feeling I remember was being

headachy, hungry and irritable all the time, even during the

(disappointingly) short time I was just maintaining.

So no doubt there is some association in my mind between discomfort and

restricting calories, and perhaps this is true with others, who also

associate exercise with restricting calories. I exercise anyway, because by

now I am addicted to it and I feel worse when I don't do it (and it has at

least kept about 10 pounds off consistently). But I sure would like for all

that work to show, not to mention getting rid of this case of plantar

fasciitis from hell.

Lynn Worth

Sparta, N.C. USA

> I've been following the chain related to the topic of change. Although my

> involvement in

> the fitness/wellness arena has come later in life, I can tell you from a

> fundamental

> perspective that the issues surrounding the ability to change can be addressed

> in a very

> logical fashion...of course, that doesn't mean it is easy to accomplish. If

> you look at human

> behavior from a purely logical view...we are one of the few species that acts

> based upon

> knowledge and understanding (primarily), as opposed to instinct. Given that we

> as humans

> have this unique ability, the first step is true understanding. For me, like

> many others, the

> desire to change can be predicated upon some dramatic experience (in my case,

> I was on

> deaths doorstep). When confronted with the ugly realizations associated with

> my health

> issues a few years back, I decided I had nothing to lose and everything to

> gain by

> attempting to restore " balance " with regards to my health and wellness.

>

> For others, who may not have experienced such an event, there still is the

> inherent ability

> to make the choice...

>

> That part is easy. When speaking to groups or individuals about my story, I

> frequently ask

> if they brushed their teeth today? Often met with an odd look, the answer is

> " yes " . I then

> ask them why they did? The responses vary, but in general indicate they did

> because

> that's what they do everyday, they are supposed to. Creating change with

> regards to

> exercise, nutrition, etc..is no different. Make the choice and then you

> continue because

> " you are supposed to " . Again, that doesn't always make it easy, but it is the

> first step.

> And, if you can get someone to stop for a moment, reflect, be logical (i.e

> don't fall prey to

> our societal views and corporate marketing), then an individual can begin to

> make choices

> and transitions.

>

> In the case of personal trainers...it is support, involvement, continual

> communication,

> enforcement and modification that will compliment the " shift " one makes. As

> far as

> measurement, that has to be individualized. For some, it will come

> easier...and others will

> struggle. But, the measurement needs to be specific to the individual and

> their current

> goals. Once an accomplishment is made, it is far easier to make antoher

> " change " .

>

> Change is a constant. Reminding, and in many cases teaching people that the

> power to

> change/choose is their own is key. It's built into our DNA.

>

> Best,

>

> Josh Neimark

>

>

>

>>>

>>

>>> One point - we aren't interested in measuring vague concepts of

>>> 'motivation'. My interest is actual behavioural change. So my measure

>>> is very simple - activity (using the Godin instrument). And the

>>> problem is defined simply - 75% of the Canadian population is not

>>> active enough for health benefits.

>>>

>>

>>>

>>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

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>

>

[Guest guest]

This is a very interesting topic, because the adherence to a

physical activity program seems to be very low, particularly in

special groups like elderly people, smokers or overweight subjetcs.

And this special population groups are the ones that could benefit

the most from following an individualized well prescribed exercise

program and it consider the needs of every person.

Do you think that external motivation is the most important to

predict or identify adherence? Meaning external motivation as a

Personal Trainer continuing support.

I have many articles related to exercise adherence in special

populations to share and it is most interesting to learn from the

personal experience of all of you.

Childhood and adolescent physical activity experiences appear to

influence the leves, volume, intensity and frequency of physical

actvity when become adults.

Some references:

AM, Humbert ML and Mirwald RL (2003): " A longitudinal

study of the impact of childhood and adolescent physical activity

experiences on adult physical activity perceptions and behaviors "

Quality Health Research. Mar;13(3):358-77

Trudeau F, celle L et al(1999): " Daily primary school

physical education: effects on physical activity during adult life "

Medicine & Science in Sports and Exercise. Jan;31(1):111-7

WE, Blair SN et al (1999): " Childhood and adolescent physical

patterns and adults physical activity " Medicine & Science in Sports

and Exercise. Jan;31(1):118-23

Sebastián Scoles

Buenos Aires, Argetina

In Supertraining , fiddler wrote:

>

> I've been following this too with interest. I've been able to

become a

> regular exerciser since I quit smoking in 1990, probably because

of the good

> example of my parents (my mother is still living, and at age 77

walks every

> day).

>

> However, it seems to do little good in my battle against being

overweight.

> About 10 years ago I lost 50 pounds, down to what my doctor

considered a

> normal weight for me. The overwhelming feeling I remember was being

> headachy, hungry and irritable all the time, even during the

> (disappointingly) short time I was just maintaining.

>

> So no doubt there is some association in my mind between

discomfort and

> restricting calories, and perhaps this is true with others, who

also

> associate exercise with restricting calories. I exercise anyway,

because by

> now I am addicted to it and I feel worse when I don't do it (and

it has at

> least kept about 10 pounds off consistently). But I sure would

like for all

> that work to show, not to mention getting rid of this case of

plantar

> fasciitis from hell.

>

> Lynn Worth

> Sparta, N.C. USA

>

>

>

>

> > I've been following the chain related to the topic of change.

Although my

> > involvement in

> > the fitness/wellness arena has come later in life, I can tell

you from a

> > fundamental

> > perspective that the issues surrounding the ability to change

can be addressed

> > in a very

> > logical fashion...of course, that doesn't mean it is easy to

accomplish. If

> > you look at human

> > behavior from a purely logical view...we are one of the few

species that acts

> > based upon

> > knowledge and understanding (primarily), as opposed to instinct.

Given that we

> > as humans

> > have this unique ability, the first step is true understanding.

For me, like

> > many others, the

> > desire to change can be predicated upon some dramatic experience

(in my case,

> > I was on

> > deaths doorstep). When confronted with the ugly realizations

associated with

> > my health

> > issues a few years back, I decided I had nothing to lose and

everything to

> > gain by

> > attempting to restore " balance " with regards to my health and

wellness.

> >

> > For others, who may not have experienced such an event, there

still is the

> > inherent ability

> > to make the choice...

> >

> > That part is easy. When speaking to groups or individuals about

my story, I

> > frequently ask

> > if they brushed their teeth today? Often met with an odd look,

the answer is

> > " yes " . I then

> > ask them why they did? The responses vary, but in general

indicate they did

> > because

> > that's what they do everyday, they are supposed to. Creating

change with

> > regards to

> > exercise, nutrition, etc..is no different. Make the choice and

then you

> > continue because

> > " you are supposed to " . Again, that doesn't always make it easy,

but it is the

> > first step.

> > And, if you can get someone to stop for a moment, reflect, be

logical (i.e

> > don't fall prey to

> > our societal views and corporate marketing), then an individual

can begin to

> > make choices

> > and transitions.

> >

> > In the case of personal trainers...it is support, involvement,

continual

> > communication,

> > enforcement and modification that will compliment the " shift "

one makes. As

> > far as

> > measurement, that has to be individualized. For some, it will

come

> > easier...and others will

> > struggle. But, the measurement needs to be specific to the

individual and

> > their current

> > goals. Once an accomplishment is made, it is far easier to make

antoher

> > " change " .

> >

> > Change is a constant. Reminding, and in many cases teaching

people that the

> > power to

> > change/choose is their own is key. It's built into our DNA.

> >

> > Best,

> >

> > Josh Neimark

> >

> >

> >

> >>>

> >>

> >>> One point - we aren't interested in measuring vague concepts of

> >>> 'motivation'. My interest is actual behavioural change. So my

measure

> >>> is very simple - activity (using the Godin instrument). And the

> >>> problem is defined simply - 75% of the Canadian population is

not

> >>> active enough for health benefits.

>

[Guest guest]

I have to note that it creates a false dichotomy to pit acting based on

knowledge and awareness against acting on instinct.

There is a large grey area between the two where modern psychology would

suggest that we live most of our lives. Clearly we are not creatures of

instinct, acting solely on basic drives, although the debate continues

with regard to what basic drives we might have. On the other hand most

of what we do is not governed by conscious explicit thought and

awareness - the extent to which we think so is likely a post-hoc sort of

reasoning. If we truly had to consciously make each decision that

underlies our behavior we would have little time for doing anything. Of

course, it is this misunderstanding of the role or nature of cognition

that lead Guthrie to suggest that Tolman's notion of cognitive maps and

learning would leave his rats " lost in thought. "

It is that ability to intervene in this process that we possess as a

function of explicit cognition. But that does take some doing -

sustained attention and effort (colloquially known as will power or

self-control), the ability to interrupt the normal flow of activation

and behavior - there is a fair amount of research on self-control that

adopts a muscle analogy to describe both its limited resources and the

ability to increase its strength. We often talk of creating experiences

that work like " trip wires " on the path to doing the usual). However,

for some, even a traumatic experience may not be enough (many veterans I

have met in the hospitals smoke through their tracheotomy tube). We

have to acknowledge that there are many other reasons that people cannot

change. Many decide to change - many cannot sustain the effort. For

many this may suggest unrealistic goals, lack of belief that the goals

are worthwhile, lack of self-efficacy, lack of motivation, etc. We

often cast it as a lack of will power - of course most who cast it that

way have been successful at change and use that as a cudgel on those who

have not been so - " You lack will power " - as if noting that solves

anything.

In many ways our information processing, decision-making and behavior

systems function to maintain the status quo - it is their purpose. It

is unfortunate that we are built to learn from experience and that there

is not some part of those systems that knows what we wish we could do

instead of encoding and codifying what it is we actually do; some part

of the system that could evaluate " good " v. " bad " outcomes. But those

systems do what they were meant to do - encode context, behaviors and

outcomes (most often immediate outcomes even when those do not

facilitate long-term survival). And they work as they were built to

work - taking the effort out of our daily processing and allowing many

of our activities to become automated - even if they become outmoded or

unproductive or destructive.

Jack Darkes, Ph.D.

Tampa FL

________________________________

From: Supertraining

[mailto:Supertraining ] On Behalf Of jneimark74

Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 9:49 AM

To: Supertraining

Subject: Re: Changing Behaviors

I've been following the chain related to the topic of change.

Although my involvement in

the fitness/wellness arena has come later in life, I can tell

you from a fundamental

perspective that the issues surrounding the ability to change

can be addressed in a very

logical fashion...of course, that doesn't mean it is easy to

accomplish. If you look at human

behavior from a purely logical view...we are one of the few

species that acts based upon

knowledge and understanding (primarily), as opposed to instinct.

Given that we as humans

have this unique ability, the first step is true understanding.

For me, like many others, the

desire to change can be predicated upon some dramatic experience

(in my case, I was on

deaths doorstep). When confronted with the ugly realizations

associated with my health

issues a few years back, I decided I had nothing to lose and

everything to gain by

attempting to restore " balance " with regards to my health and

wellness.

For others, who may not have experienced such an event, there

still is the inherent ability

to make the choice...

That part is easy. When speaking to groups or individuals about

my story, I frequently ask

if they brushed their teeth today? Often met with an odd look,

the answer is " yes " . I then

ask them why they did? The responses vary, but in general

indicate they did because

that's what they do everyday, they are supposed to. Creating

change with regards to

exercise, nutrition, etc..is no different. Make the choice and

then you continue because

" you are supposed to " . Again, that doesn't always make it easy,

but it is the first step.

And, if you can get someone to stop for a moment, reflect, be

logical (i.e don't fall prey to

our societal views and corporate marketing), then an individual

can begin to make choices

and transitions.

In the case of personal trainers...it is support, involvement,

continual communication,

enforcement and modification that will compliment the " shift "

one makes. As far as

measurement, that has to be individualized. For some, it will

come easier...and others will

struggle. But, the measurement needs to be specific to the

individual and their current

goals. Once an accomplishment is made, it is far easier to make

antoher " change " .

Change is a constant. Reminding, and in many cases teaching

people that the power to

change/choose is their own is key. It's built into our DNA.

Best,

Josh Neimark

> >

>

> > One point - we aren't interested in measuring vague concepts

of

> > 'motivation'. My interest is actual behavioural change. So

my measure

> > is very simple - activity (using the Godin instrument). And

the

> > problem is defined simply - 75% of the Canadian population

is not

> > active enough for health benefits.

> >

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Isolated initiatives focussing on the individual will be futile in

changing behaviours. Changing behaviour is a complex process and is

a concern for work places, communities and families. All of these

influence the environment / settings in which individual behaviour

occurs. Consequently, a multifactoral / integrated approach is required to

reach an optimal outcome.

Carruthers

Wakefield, UK

> > >>

> > >> :

> > >>

> > >> Thanks for the clarification. Now you've got me intrigued

> wondering

> > >> how specifically you'll measure actual behavioral change - and

> for how

> > >> long to determine if the awakening has really stuck and change

> > >> occurred. In my reckoning, some valuative change, conscious or

> not,

> > >> seems to have to occur - literally, a change of heart (I call

it

> > >> transvaluative experience). To that end, I would imagine a

> before and

> > >> after questionaire might provide indication of the depth of

> > >> attitudinal shift, or not!

> > >>

> > >> best

> > >>

> > >> Ken O'Neill

> > >> Austin, Texas