Hyperbaric oxygen therapy

[Guest guest]

Hi , I have heard of the study but did not know they were taking other

people. Do you have any conact info for me I would lov eto find out if i could

get in. thanks and best of luck ot you in the study. -Val

[Guest guest]

, My daughter Annie has just finished 60 treatments in the Hyperbaric

Chamber. We saw wonderful results while we were there. She did her

treatments in Chico, CA. The treatments in Penn are slightly different than

the ones in Chico. I believe it is a different depth and perhaps not has

long. The protocol in Chico is the same has the study done in Texas under

Dr. Fife. I would love to keep in touch and see how you do and what you

think of the treatments. We are feeling very positive about our experience.

They say it takes about 6 weeks before we should see the results, however

she is taking a few steps every day now and she hadn't been able to bear any

weight on her legs for 4 months prior to. Good luck to you. Feel free

anyone to contact us for info pertaining to the Chamber in Chico.

hughes@... Meg

[Guest guest]

At 03:18 PM 3/1/99 EST, SCSullivan@... wrote:

>From: SCSullivan@...

>

>I don't remember who originally posted the info on the chronic Lyme study at

>the Univ. of Penn hospital -- But, I want to say THANK YOU!!!!! I went

for my

>consult last Friday. I still have to have a few more tests (i.e., chest x-

>ray) to make sure there's no other problems, barring anything like that I'M

>IN!

>

>Since they are using the HBO chamber for other types of therapies I might

have

>to wait several weeks to get in. But I'm still very excited about

>participating, and hopefully it will prove useful for chronic Lyme! They

>still have a few slots open for the study, so I encourage anyone in the area

>to consider participating.

Congratulations, , I hope you Get the full treatment rather than the

placebo the first time around, and see good improvement

God Bless

Colby Van Atta

[Guest guest]

At 03:18 PM 3/1/99 EST, SCSullivan@... wrote:

>From: SCSullivan@...

>

>I don't remember who originally posted the info on the chronic Lyme study at

>the Univ. of Penn hospital -- But, I want to say THANK YOU!!!!! I went

for my

>consult last Friday. I still have to have a few more tests (i.e., chest x-

>ray) to make sure there's no other problems, barring anything like that I'M

>IN!

>

>Since they are using the HBO chamber for other types of therapies I might

have

>to wait several weeks to get in. But I'm still very excited about

>participating, and hopefully it will prove useful for chronic Lyme! They

>still have a few slots open for the study, so I encourage anyone in the area

>to consider participating.

>

Congratulations, .

IO hope you see dramatic improvement

God Bless

Colby Van Atta

[Guest guest]

Great news ,

Please keep the group posted each step of the way. We are all hoping

that this will be an accepted and helpful treatment for people with Lyme.

Marta

>From: SCSullivan@...

>

>I don't remember who originally posted the info on the chronic Lyme study

at

>the Univ. of Penn hospital -- But, I want to say THANK YOU!!!!! I went for

my

>consult last Friday. I still have to have a few more tests (i.e., chest x-

>ray) to make sure there's no other problems, barring anything like that I'M

>IN!

>

>Since they are using the HBO chamber for other types of therapies I might

have

>to wait several weeks to get in. But I'm still very excited about

>participating, and hopefully it will prove useful for chronic Lyme! They

>still have a few slots open for the study, so I encourage anyone in the

area

>to consider participating.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Val,

The contact number for the study is 215-898-9102.

Here are some of the details: You need to have a positive Lyme test (any test

-- WB, LUAT, etc.). They have two sessions available daily, 8am and noon.

Just so you know, if you can do the 8am you'll probably get in faster. The

therapy lasts for 2 1/2 hours a day, Mon-Sat for 4 weeks. After that there's

a 6 month follow-up.

Since it's a double-blind study neither the patient nor the doctor knows who

is getting the real oxygen therapy, and who is getting air (the control

group). The only person who knows is the chamber operator. But the cool part

is that if you're in the control group you still get the treatment for free

after the study is over.

Let me know if you get in! Maybe we'll get to meet in person!

Good Luck!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/2/99 2:18:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

SkariPM@... writes:

> I forgot to mention that Dr. Nicholson is now recommending Hyperbaric

> Oxygen Therapy.

>

> I read this in the CFS Electronic Newsletter #83 17 Aug 99

>

> http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/CGI/wa.exe?A2=ind9908 & L=cfs-news & F= & S= & P=162

Hi Patti....

I couldn't find it on that summary but I know on Nicolson

considerations page he states " Useful " thats the operative word.

What if this helps, how do we keep the oxygen replenishing ? He might mean

with a main therapy it might be useful...what main therapy are yuo on.....

It seems very tricky to your kind offer to others to joing you, I would guess

in your home, You would be liable for their health to boot ?

Susy

[Guest guest]

> http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/CGI/wa.exe?A2=ind9908 & L=cfs-news &

F= & S= & P=162

I couldn't find it on that summary

Its near the bottom. He suggests it in addition to everything

else as mycoplasma grows well in an O2-poor environment. He

noted how PWCs often relapse after long flights (cabin normally

pressurized to - uh forgot, I think 10,000ft - also several

PWCs I know get altitude sickness at much lower altitudes

than before CFIDS - but I digress, I posted ad nauseum on

this topic before)

how do we keep the oxygen replenishing ?

I don't know and I don't care. It took me a long time to

wrangle a script for O2 and I aint sharin' with anyone!

However even without additional O2 the hyperbaric chamber

can increase blood O2 levels up to 17%. So may be helpful

even without an O2 script.

I just listened to the video tape about hypercoag by HEMEX.

I really keyed in on the fact that some docs are now prescribing

heparin for altitude sickness! I also found out that the

standard drug treatment for severe altitude sickness is

Diamox and Dr. Goldberg has found this to be helpful in

some PWCs. So this may finally answer the

question about why each person gets altitude sickness at

different altitudes. Perhaps it depends on where each person

falls on a hypercoag/normal spectrum.

I'm not treating anyone.

Patti

--

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/3/99 4:20:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

schweit2@... writes:

<< As I understand it, the oxygen therapy is helpful on a temporary

basis -- like getting infusions of IV saline is helpful (because

we seem to have a low volume of blood) but only on a temporary

basis. >>

This is not what is going on. Dr. Bell is the one who began saline

infusions for his patients after they failed the total blood volume test, but

he had no idea why it would be helpful and never agreed that it could force

oxygen into the brain or muscles. In fact, it doesn't. He announced at the

AACFS that is seemed to help many severe patients but he never said it only

helped on a short term basis. In fact, most of his patients using this

method of plain IV saline infusions are still on them and still getting

benefits over 1 1/2 years later.

However, when Berg was doing research, he did state why the saline

infusions helped. It was diffusing the blood so the blood could get past the

narrowing veins and arteries that the fibrin deposits had built up. His

protocol of heparin does a much better job than that but will not work for

the most severe (totally bedridden) patients and he is now researching that

area.

Gail

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/3/99 5:27:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

S@... writes:

<< I wish I could communicate with just one person who uses heperin >>

Steve, there's one patient who was in the initial pilot trial who kept a

diary that is posted on the website (Hemex.com). I'm sure you can get in

touch with her. She was interviewed by the National CFIDS Foundation and we

ran that in our spring edition. Her name is Beth Breschsel (pronounced

Drexel) and she lives in Glendale, Arizona. I know there's another patient

on this list but I feel it's her place to come forward.

Gail

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/3/99 6:22:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

schweit2@... writes:

<< They may have been saying

this with regard to BLOOD infusions or PLASMA infusions.

>>

They had to be what they were inferring since the saline infusions were not

yet started when they submitted for publication. However, a full and

immediate transfusion was tried for one patient who was particularly bad and

helped for a full 6 weeks. It was the same premise that led to the trial on

Erythropeitan and Dr. Klimas is now undertaking a study of lower doses of

Erythropeitan with funding supplied from the pahmaceutical manufacturer.

There is nothing that has been proven to be a long-term therapy for this

illness at the present time.

Gail

[Guest guest]

As I understand it, the oxygen therapy is helpful on a temporary

basis -- like getting infusions of IV saline is helpful (because

we seem to have a low volume of blood) but only on a temporary

basis. If it forces more oxygen into our brains and our muscles,

then we WILL feel better. And if it DOES really help people

perform better -- not just feel better -- then that might be

evidence that the difficulties PWC's have remaining in aerobic

metabolism (and the constant pain of lactic acid) may have to do

more with oxygen DELIVERY to the muscle cells, rather than the

way the cells USE oxygen (metabolate) -- or perhaps a combination

of the two. But if the benefits come from better oxygen

delivery, they are only going to be temporary -- we haven't fixed

the problem that is causing low oxyten delivery to begin with.

If the problem stems FROM mycoplasma, then perhaps if you are on

it long enough to kill the mycoplasma then you can go off it a

while and be okay.

This is the treatment that Cher claims worked for her.

However, my doctor (and many other CFIDS/M.E. docs these days)

believes that the mycoplasma and cytomegalovirus and chlamydia

and HHV-6 infections that we are seeing in this disease are a

SYMPTOM rather than a ROOT CAUSE -- at base, our problem is a

defective immunological system. These are all three

opportunistic infections -- everybody gets exposed to them, but

only people with compromised immune systems end up with serious

problems from them.

So if you stoped oxygen treatment and you still had the defective

immune system, the mycoplasma might come back.

Schweitzer

mailto:schweit2@...

The CFIDS/M.E. Information Page: http://www.cfids-me.org/

[Guest guest]

Gail -- " short run " in this case means that it can help as long

as you are on the therapy, but not when you go off of it. That

was what the original question was about with regard to

hyperbaric oxygen.

So yes, to repeat, Bell would agree that if IV ssaline infusions

help, it is only on a SHORT RUN basis -- that is, when you quit

the infusions, the benefits stop.

However, in the original Bell and Streeten article in the Journal

of CFS, the authors stated that even long-term IV hydration

therapy could fail, because there were cases where the body

adjusted itself back to the original blood volume over time --

effectively EXPECTING the infusion. They may have been saying

this with regard to BLOOD infusions or PLASMA infusions.

Either way, IV saline infusions are short-term in the sense that

whatever the benefits, they are gone within three or four days.

Schweitzer

mailto:schweit2@...

[Guest guest]

hi,

I've been listening in, after 20 HBO treatments I've felt no better or

worse. my understanding is HBO (hyperbaric oxygen) is used in addition

to other treatment and in and of itself may not be helpful.

erik

Schweitzer wrote:

>

> From: Schweitzer <schweit2@...>

>

> As I understand it, the oxygen therapy is helpful on a temporary

> basis -- like getting infusions of IV saline is helpful (because

> we seem to have a low volume of blood) but only on a temporary

> basis. If it forces more oxygen into our brains and our muscles,

> then we WILL feel better. And if it DOES really help people

> perform better -- not just feel better -- then that might be

> evidence that the difficulties PWC's have remaining in aerobic

> metabolism (and the constant pain of lactic acid) may have to do

> more with oxygen DELIVERY to the muscle cells, rather than the

> way the cells USE oxygen (metabolate) -- or perhaps a combination

> of the two. But if the benefits come from better oxygen

> delivery, they are only going to be temporary -- we haven't fixed

> the problem that is causing low oxyten delivery to begin with.

>

> If the problem stems FROM mycoplasma, then perhaps if you are on

> it long enough to kill the mycoplasma then you can go off it a

> while and be okay.

>

> This is the treatment that Cher claims worked for her.

>

> However, my doctor (and many other CFIDS/M.E. docs these days)

> believes that the mycoplasma and cytomegalovirus and chlamydia

> and HHV-6 infections that we are seeing in this disease are a

> SYMPTOM rather than a ROOT CAUSE -- at base, our problem is a

> defective immunological system. These are all three

> opportunistic infections -- everybody gets exposed to them, but

> only people with compromised immune systems end up with serious

> problems from them.

>

> So if you stoped oxygen treatment and you still had the defective

> immune system, the mycoplasma might come back.

>

> Schweitzer

> mailto:schweit2@...

> The CFIDS/M.E. Information Page: http://www.cfids-me.org/

>

> > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Perhaps one cannot discontinue O2 Therapy, as I cannot stop taking thyroid

or like a diabetic cannot stop insulin. Sounds like good treatment even if

it may not be a total cure. I guess we must do whatever helps us function

the most!

Take care,

Christie

At 05:14 PM 10/3/99 EDT, you wrote:

>From: GAILRONDA@...

>

>In a message dated 10/3/99 4:20:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

>schweit2@... writes:

>

><< As I understand it, the oxygen therapy is helpful on a temporary

> basis -- like getting infusions of IV saline is helpful (because

> we seem to have a low volume of blood) but only on a temporary

> basis. >>

>This is not what is going on. Dr. Bell is the one who began saline

>infusions for his patients after they failed the total blood volume test,

but

>he had no idea why it would be helpful and never agreed that it could force

>oxygen into the brain or muscles. In fact, it doesn't. He announced at the

>AACFS that is seemed to help many severe patients but he never said it only

>helped on a short term basis. In fact, most of his patients using this

>method of plain IV saline infusions are still on them and still getting

>benefits over 1 1/2 years later.

>

>However, when Berg was doing research, he did state why the saline

>infusions helped. It was diffusing the blood so the blood could get past

the

>narrowing veins and arteries that the fibrin deposits had built up. His

>protocol of heparin does a much better job than that but will not work for

>the most severe (totally bedridden) patients and he is now researching that

>area.

>

>Gail

>

>>This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

>>how do we keep the oxygen replenishing ?

>>

>>I don't know and I don't care. It took me a long time to

>>wrangle a script for O2 and I aint sharin' with anyone!

>

Dear Patti,

Is this O2 with a tank or the therapy discussed here. If it the tank, how

DID you wrangle a script?! I have breathing problems, but O2 saturation in

blood is OK so I cannot imagine getting this. I was on oxygen while in

hospital due to severe loss of blood, but was taken off quickly with

explanation that too much O2 can be dangerous.

After hearing all the theoies and biology behind them (and STILL trying to

make sense of it all), I've decided that that people with difficult to

diagnosis illness need to go to medical school for our own protection!

Looking forward to your answer!

CHristie

[Guest guest]

> Is this O2 with a tank or the therapy discussed here.

I got a script for O2 in a tank. The hyperbaric chamber

I plan to use is called a gamow bag (Invented by professor

Gamow at U of Colorado). It just uses pressurized ambient

air. This takes a little understanding of physics, HOWEVER,

if you breath bottled O2 in a pressurized environment it is

basically the same as when the entire chamber is flooded with

O2 at pressure. Not sure I explained this correctly, but

I plan to take the O2 tank in the Gamow bag with me which

will nearly simulate the pressurized O2 chamber. The

beauty of the Gamow bag is that it can be operated by anyone

and can be easily carried around (it weighs only 15 lbs)

> If it

> the tank, how

> DID you wrangle a script?!

It took me a long time. Sorry, I'd love to share how I did

this, but I'm afraid to. If this works for me I'll try

to figure out how others can do it and will share, but

at the moment I can't.

> I have breathing problems, but O2

> saturation in

> blood is OK so I cannot imagine getting this. I was on

> oxygen while in

> hospital due to severe loss of blood,

I have chest pain most of the time (supposedly costochondritis)

but once my pain got so bad it seemed like a heart attack (which

it wasn't) and went to the hospital where they put me on

oxygen (they put all suspected heart problems on O2). I thought

it was interesting that the pain went away after about 5 or 10

minutes of being on O2 (I had been in serious pain for about 4

hours before I went in). It may have been a coincidence, or

maybe not.

I don't know for sure, but I am suspecting that your/our blood

oxygenation can be " normal " , but you/we are still not getting

enough O2 to the brain and muscles.

> but was taken off quickly with

> explanation that too much O2 can be dangerous.

Yes, I know that too much O2 is toxic and I am a bit concerned

about this. I know that using the Gamow bag without extra

O2 is not dangerous at all. I plan to use the Gamow bag without

supplemental O2 for the first week. But I need to learn more

about using O2. If anyone knows practical info about O2 use,

PLEASE let me know - like how do you know if you're getting too

much? I plan to rent an Oximeter also, so maybe that will be

good enuf to monitor.

BTW - if anyone wants to see the hyperbaric chamber I plan to

rent you can see it at http://www.chinookmed.com/chinook.html

Click on " High Altitude Equipment "

I sure wish this had been invented (and taken along) when I

was on Everest (pass to Tibet on the shoulder of Everest

18,000ft) back in 1986. I got cerebral edema pretty bad.

Was frightening - lost most of my vision until I got to

a lower altitude.

> After hearing all the theoies and biology behind them (and

> STILL trying to

> make sense of it all), I've decided that that people with difficult to

> diagnosis illness need to go to medical school for our own protection!

That's for sure!!!!! I feel that many of us deserve an honorary medical

degree! Heck, honorary my foot, we deserve real degrees, maybe DRM,

Doctorate of Real Medicine!

Patti

--

[Guest guest]

,

> I've been listening in, after 20 HBO treatments I've felt no better or

> worse. my understanding is HBO (hyperbaric oxygen) is used in addition

> to other treatment and in and of itself may not be helpful.

Were the treatments for CFIDS or something else? I've read that

2 weeks of daily treatments is the bare minimum. I think it takes

more than 3 weeks of treatment for angiogenesis to take place

(building of new capillaries into tissue).

> my understanding is HBO (hyperbaric oxygen) is used in addition

> to other treatment and in and of itself may not be helpful.

Yes, from what I've read I believe that's true. I haven't read of it

being recommended as a monotherapy for anything.

,

> > But if the benefits come from better oxygen

> > delivery, they are only going to be temporary --

Not necessarily. The partial pressure of oxygen reaching tissue

has been greatly increased for as many as 3 years after treatment.

The treatments were long I think a month or more. Long term

treatments promote angiogenesis. This building of new capillaries

into tissue increases the amount of O2 reaching the tissue. Once

the capillaries are made they stay there and don't disappear once

HBO treatments have stopped, so tissues stay more oxygenated.

> > we haven't fixed

> > the problem that is causing low oxygen delivery to begin with.

Some random thoughts - all wild speculation:

If hypercoag was the problem, then it may still be a problem and

perhaps the HBO therapy will be of minimal benefit. maybe the new

vessels formed by angiogenesis may be free of plaque (for awhile

at least). Also, perhaps the extra O2 might reverse the hypercoag

condition (doesn't Dr. Berg say that the hypercoag condition is

precipitated by an event such as viral infection?) Even so, it

doesn't look like O2 can be a monotherapy - unless perhaps it

can stop some feedback loop.

> > This is the treatment that Cher claims worked for her.

I hadn't heard that. Do you know any details?

> > So if you stoped oxygen treatment and you still had the defective

> > immune system, the mycoplasma might come back.

Unless the extra O2 in the tissues (because of angiogenesis) keeps

the oxygen levels too high for myco to multiply?

Well we may have a few data points in a couple months as I and my

friends experiment on ourselves!

Patti

--

[Guest guest]

Hi and : Sorry the O2 treatments aren't helping. 2 things. I

believe energy or fatigue relief is really a 'side effect' of the treatment.

Perhaps not all people really get that effect...you know like meds that

affect some people but not others. Also to kill germs..you can't just use

hyperbaric. Hyperbaric alone will promote healing but will not kill germs

per say. it is often used IN CONJUNCTION with iv antibiotic therapy to

increase the absorption of the med thus killing the germs at a faster rate.

This is what they did for me when I had a bone infection. Local oxygen will

do NOTHING for you as far as I've been told. Anyway, hope this clears up some

mysteries. Professional Patient, Shell

[Guest guest]

Dear Patti,

Thank you for this info. I hope there will be a time when we don't have to

fear sharing information about certain treatments, but I understand that

people do get in trouble. The lyme doctor I used to see and was going back

to see has lost his license for treating lyme patients!! And this is

Michigan - where there are a TON of deer!!

>> If it

>> the tank, how

>> DID you wrangle a script?!

>

>It took me a long time. Sorry, I'd love to share how I did

>this, but I'm afraid to. If this works for me I'll try

>to figure out how others can do it and will share, but

>at the moment I can't.

>I have chest pain most of the time (supposedly costochondritis)

Costochondritis is associated with autoimmune disease such as lupus. Have

you had ongoing evaluation for these diseases?

>

>I don't know for sure, but I am suspecting that your/our blood

>oxygenation can be " normal " , but you/we are still not getting

>enough O2 to the brain and muscles.

Well, something isn't working! The more I move, the more clogged up I get!

This has been since pneumonia this spring. My voice gets raspy and I am

out of breath and yet docs cannot figure it out! I know allergies is a

part of it as I react with asthma when exposed to certain things - like

nearly everything!! ALso, I need to have air flow or I get spacy and

dizzy. There is obstruction there and think I should be scoped to *see*

exactly what is going on. Chronic Bronchitis can cause this.

> I've decided that that people with difficult to

>> diagnosis illness need to go to medical school for our own protection!

>

>That's for sure!!!!! I feel that many of us deserve an honorary medical

>degree! Heck, honorary my foot, we deserve real degrees, maybe DRM,

>Doctorate of Real Medicine!

>

>Patti

>--

Yes, look at what I am doing above! Diagnosing myself, and I bet I'm right!

Take care,

Dr. Christie

[Guest guest]

and : Hypberbaric is used also to treat diabetic wounds, wounds

that don't heal, decubitis, bone infections, stroke patients (to get o2 to

the brain) and much much more. xo Shell

[Guest guest]

Dr. Christie,

> The lyme doctor I used to see and

> was going back

> to see has lost his license for treating lyme patients!! And this is

> Michigan - where there are a TON of deer!!

They are such idiots. One of my DEAR doctors lost his license too

for treating people with Armour thyroid. He was an absolute dear,

and had no patient complaints, but lost his license all the same.

Just saw this quote and its SO appropriate:

" Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution, the time

will come when medicine will organize into an undercover

dictatorship. To restrict the art of healing to one class of

man and deny equal privileges to others will constitute the

Bastille of medical science. .. The constitution of the republic

should make special provision for medical freedom as well as

religious freedom. "

Dr. Rush, Surgeon-General of Washington's

armies and signer of the Declaration of Independence (l787)

Welcome to the medical dictatorship!

> >I have chest pain most of the time (supposedly costochondritis)

>

> Costochondritis is associated with autoimmune disease such as

> lupus. Have

> you had ongoing evaluation for these diseases?

No. And I've been asking to be tested for about 3 years now.

The really STUPID thing is that I've already had one autoimmune

disease (ovarian antibodies) and I KNOW that having one autoimmune

disease makes you WAY more likely to develop another autoimmune

disease, and all my docs agree that this is true, but they refuse

to order any tests!!! Sheesh, sometimes I get so frustrated I

could just scream!!

> >I don't know for sure, but I am suspecting that your/our blood

> >oxygenation can be " normal " , but you/we are still not getting

> >enough O2 to the brain and muscles.

> Well, something isn't working! The more I move, the more

> clogged up I get!

That used to happen to me until I got on Armour thyroid. Sounds

gross, but had mucous so thick and sticky that one doc wanted to

have me tested for cystic fibrosis (year round). Wonder of

wonders, the doc who lost his license for putting patients on

Armour thyroid stopped this all (well, most of it) by putting

me on Armour. It took a long time, but finally found a doc

that would let me continue on Armour, but I would do illegal

things to stay on it.

> ALso, I need to have air flow or I get spacy and

> dizzy.

Yeah, I know, I keep a window open even in winter because

I need air flow.

> > I've decided that that people with difficult to

> >> diagnosis illness need to go to medical school for our own

> protection!

> >

> >That's for sure!!!!! I feel that many of us deserve an

> honorary medical

> >degree! Heck, honorary my foot, we deserve real degrees, maybe DRM,

> >Doctorate of Real Medicine!

> Yes, look at what I am doing above! Diagnosing myself, and I

> bet I'm right!

I bet most of us can diagnose better, and think better (even WITH

brain fog) than most of the medical dictators.

Dr. Patti DRM (dr of REAL medicine)

--

[Guest guest]

skari

my dx. is a jaw bone osteomyilitis, the gal who runs the HOT place told

me it begins to build new bone and capilieries after 12 treatments but

you right, the best way to go would be a combo of

40, 20/20 or 30/10.

erik

" Skari, M " wrote:

>

> From: " Skari, M " <SkariPM@...>

>

> ,

>

> > I've been listening in, after 20 HBO treatments I've felt no better or

> > worse. my understanding is HBO (hyperbaric oxygen) is used in addition

> > to other treatment and in and of itself may not be helpful.

>

> Were the treatments for CFIDS or something else? I've read that

> 2 weeks of daily treatments is the bare minimum. I think it takes

> more than 3 weeks of treatment for angiogenesis to take place

> (building of new capillaries into tissue).

>

> > my understanding is HBO (hyperbaric oxygen) is used in addition

> > to other treatment and in and of itself may not be helpful.

>

> Yes, from what I've read I believe that's true. I haven't read of it

> being recommended as a monotherapy for anything.

>

> ,

>

> > > But if the benefits come from better oxygen

> > > delivery, they are only going to be temporary --

>

> Not necessarily. The partial pressure of oxygen reaching tissue

> has been greatly increased for as many as 3 years after treatment.

> The treatments were long I think a month or more. Long term

> treatments promote angiogenesis. This building of new capillaries

> into tissue increases the amount of O2 reaching the tissue. Once

> the capillaries are made they stay there and don't disappear once

> HBO treatments have stopped, so tissues stay more oxygenated.

>

> > > we haven't fixed

> > > the problem that is causing low oxygen delivery to begin with.

>

> Some random thoughts - all wild speculation:

> If hypercoag was the problem, then it may still be a problem and

> perhaps the HBO therapy will be of minimal benefit. maybe the new

> vessels formed by angiogenesis may be free of plaque (for awhile

> at least). Also, perhaps the extra O2 might reverse the hypercoag

> condition (doesn't Dr. Berg say that the hypercoag condition is

> precipitated by an event such as viral infection?) Even so, it

> doesn't look like O2 can be a monotherapy - unless perhaps it

> can stop some feedback loop.

>

> > > This is the treatment that Cher claims worked for her.

>

> I hadn't heard that. Do you know any details?

>

> > > So if you stoped oxygen treatment and you still had the defective

> > > immune system, the mycoplasma might come back.

>

> Unless the extra O2 in the tissues (because of angiogenesis) keeps

> the oxygen levels too high for myco to multiply?

>

> Well we may have a few data points in a couple months as I and my

> friends experiment on ourselves!

>

> Patti

> --

>

> > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

...I had osteomyletis in the bones of my face, orbital, maxillary, etc.

I had a rare osteo called Actinomycosis. I had to combine it with heavy

doses of iv antibiotics for 6 months...16 million units a day. The purpose

of the H20 treatments is also to increase the antibiotic

effectiveness....bone is hard to penetrate. Contact Dr. Ralph Potkin, of

Cedar Sinai....in California....Los Angeles. He did my treatments. He has a

place called Hyperbaric Research and TX center. Best of luck, xo Shell

[Guest guest]

thanks for the info, I just started IV antibio a few days ago and oral

two weeks ago, I felt better one week after starting the orals

for a week but now have most symptoms back.

did you recover from the treatments??

erik

AdAgensee@... wrote:

>

> From: AdAgensee@...

>

> ...I had osteomyletis in the bones of my face, orbital, maxillary, etc.

> I had a rare osteo called Actinomycosis. I had to combine it with heavy

> doses of iv antibiotics for 6 months...16 million units a day. The purpose

> of the H20 treatments is also to increase the antibiotic

> effectiveness....bone is hard to penetrate. Contact Dr. Ralph Potkin, of

> Cedar Sinai....in California....Los Angeles. He did my treatments. He has a

> place called Hyperbaric Research and TX center. Best of luck, xo Shell

>

> > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.