What can off gas and what cannot/Re: Plastic Containers

[Guest guest]

If the contamination is within the wall cavity, the answer is yes. The wall

cavities are in communication with the interior of the home via many sources,

e.g. electrical outlets, pipes, around HVAC ducts.

[] What can off gas and what cannot/Re: Plastic

Containers

I am getting two different viewpoints on this and would really like to know..

I was sick but the mold was being the thin set where tiles had fallen off and

behind the tiles.. there was a long grout line that was open going up one side

of the knee wall.

Spores, toxins, endotoxins... whatever.. can any of them get out of those

places mentiond above or plastic containers? And is there scientific proof or

clear anecdotal " proof " ?

Thanks,

Robin

[Guest guest]

Stachy and other fungi shed fine particulates in the wet state and dry state.

The older the colonies the greater the shedding.

If you do ERMI testing do both carpet dust and bulk samples. The carpet dust

usually does not reveal the presence of Stachy, while bulk samples of visible

usually does.

[] What can off gas and what cannot/Re: Plastic

Containers

Oh.. ok so the spores or mycotoxins, endotoxins can leak out in different

ways... stachy likes to stay still unless disturbed, usually dried out..

I started having attacks before the remediation. So trying to piece this

together. Spores then can be anywhere in the house but less likely if the wall

had not been exposed to drying air.. the mycotoxins and endotoxins, etc could be

anywhere in the house..

Im not clear if mycotoxins can exist as a " form " without the spore though.

Endotoxins as well.. bacteria I can see existing separately but not sure the

food source , if one is needed, and how long they would stay alie without the

moist environment.

We ended up with airborne spores in LR 7 per sq meter after the initial

botched remediation.. but the bathroom was upstairs.

I am thinking about doing ARMI samples on all three levels of the house and

see what comes up. We are moving out, but I want to know what we have been

dealing with and get an idea of the damage. The house never had high spore

counts of any mold.

If you have the time to address, I would be most grateful.

Robin

[Guest guest]

Robin,

You need a conversation about several topics that start at the beginning and

progress to the conclusions you need for understanding.

For example, the air samples are in cubic meters but if the lab results were

actually in square meters then they weren't air samples. ARMI is a limited

subset of ERMI which is a limited subset of PCR. Do you need to know species or

quantities? Genus or species?

Bacteria are separate from mold. Mycotoxins are not limited to spores and are

different from endotoxin.

It will help to start over with some fundamentals than to untangle.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

(fm my Blackberry)

[] What can off gas and what cannot/Re: Plastic Containers

Oh.. ok so the spores or mycotoxins, endotoxins can leak out in different

ways... stachy likes to stay still unless disturbed, usually dried out..

I started having attacks before the remediation. So trying to piece this

together. Spores then can be anywhere in the house but less likely if the wall

had not been exposed to drying air.. the mycotoxins and endotoxins, etc could be

anywhere in the house..

Im not clear if mycotoxins can exist as a " form " without the spore though.

Endotoxins as well.. bacteria I can see existing separately but not sure the

food source , if one is needed, and how long they would stay alie without the

moist environment.

We ended up with airborne spores in LR 7 per sq meter after the initial botched

remediation.. but the bathroom was upstairs.

I am thinking about doing ARMI samples on all three levels of the house and see

what comes up. We are moving out, but I want to know what we have been dealing

with and get an idea of the damage. The house never had high spore counts of any

mold.

If you have the time to address, I would be most grateful.

Robin

--- In , " Jack Thrasher, Ph.D. " <toxicologist1@...>

wrote:

>

> If the contamination is within the wall cavity, the answer is yes. The wall

cavities are in communication with the interior of the home via many sources,

e.g. electrical outlets, pipes, around HVAC ducts.

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: listspub

> >

> I am getting two different viewpoints on this and would really like to

know.. I was sick but the mold was being the thin set where tiles had fallen off

and behind the tiles.. there was a long grout line that was open going up one

side of the knee wall.

>

> Spores, toxins, endotoxins... whatever.. can any of them get out of those

places mentiond above or plastic containers? And is there scientific proof or

clear anecdotal " proof " ?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Robin

>

[Guest guest]

Carl: I recently posted on the biocontaminants as simple as I could. Give it a

try and I will assist. Based upon the post I have seen, most posters only think

mycotoxins and fungi. They do not seem to grasp the concept of multiple

contaminants and their sources.

Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Off: 916-745-4703

Cell: 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

916-745-4703 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

privileged and confidential. The forwarding or redistribution of this message

(and any attachments) without my prior written consent is strictly prohibited

and may violate privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this message has been

served, please destroy the original message contents. If you have received this

message in error, please reply immediately to advise the sender of the

miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies you have printed.

Thank you in advance for your compliance.

[Guest guest]

Dr. Thrasher, how do you do an ermi bulk sample, is that swiping the

tops of dusty computers, cupboards, etc. or is that an air sample of

some kind? thanks, sue v.

>Ohhh.. OK. This is very helpful. Thank you so much. I want to know what

>has happened to this house and me, my kids and their chronic candida,

>tummy issues, OI/POTS.

>

[Guest guest]

You can do dust samples and consider as bulk. However, what I am referring to as

bulk samples is actual samples the contaminated building materials with visible

growth.

Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Off: 916-745-4703

Cell: 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

916-745-4703 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

privileged and confidential. The forwarding or redistribution of this message

(and any attachments) without my prior written consent is strictly prohibited

and may violate privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this message has been

served, please destroy the original message contents. If you have received this

message in error, please reply immediately to advise the sender of the

miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies you have printed.

Thank you in advance for your compliance.

[Guest guest]

Thank you

 

  

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: " Jack Thrasher, Ph.D. " <toxicologist1@...>

Sent: Wed, August 11, 2010 4:21:07 PM

Subject: Re: [] What can off gas and what cannot/Re: Plastic

Containers

 

Yes, the HEPA filter and filters from room air filtration machines are good

sources. I have used both to demonstrate airborne mold, bacteria and their

toxins.

Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Off: 916-745-4703

Cell: 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

916-745-4703 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

privileged and confidential. The forwarding or redistribution of this message

(and any attachments) without my prior written consent is strictly prohibited

and may violate privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this message has been

served, please destroy the original message contents. If you have received this

message in error, please reply immediately to advise the sender of the

miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies you have printed.

Thank you in advance for your compliance.

[Guest guest]

Dave,

The difference between my belief structure and yours is that I don't

believe we do anything to deserve or not deserve, I don't think God is

punishing us with this, in fact I don't know if there is a God or not,

there is sure much we don't understand in the world/universe and beyond,

but I don't think that God, whoever and whatever that is, if there is

one, is paying any more attention to you and me and our problems than to

the gazillions of mold spore fragments wafting around, in other words I

think we are inconsequential in any higher beings eyes.....

I do not mean to minimize your beliefs, wish I had the faith, just

wasn't raised that way....

I do believe that much is not in our control, and life's journey is

about accepting that fact, but also much is in our control and we have

to try and make the best of what we have. I also believe you can

improve your health, that it won't always be so difficult for you, you

are slowly learning what you need to do (avoidance). You knew you

should have stopped the hvac guy and didn't, probably because it is so

difficult to explain, no one understands, thinks our sensitivities are

crazy....

Got to run, virtual healing rays coming your way from me sue

>

>i just dont get it sue, what have we done to deserve this?

>

[Guest guest]

amen to that, and wiether theres a god or not, he has nothing to do with what we

are going through. for most of us, it's negligence

by other people for the reason we are here. weither it's landlords or contactors

or even ourselfs. so can we please leave god out off this?

>

> Dave,

>

> The difference between my belief structure and yours is that I don't

> believe we do anything to deserve or not deserve, I don't think God is

> punishing us with this, in fact I don't know if there is a God or not,

> there is sure much we don't understand in the world/universe and beyond,

> but I don't think that God, whoever and whatever that is, if there is

> one, is paying any more attention to you and me and our problems than to

> the gazillions of mold spore fragments wafting around, in other words I

> think we are inconsequential in any higher beings eyes.....

>

> I do not mean to minimize your beliefs, wish I had the faith, just

> wasn't raised that way....

>

> I do believe that much is not in our control, and life's journey is

> about accepting that fact, but also much is in our control and we have

> to try and make the best of what we have. I also believe you can

> improve your health, that it won't always be so difficult for you, you

> are slowly learning what you need to do (avoidance). You knew you

> should have stopped the hvac guy and didn't, probably because it is so

> difficult to explain, no one understands, thinks our sensitivities are

> crazy....

>

> Got to run, virtual healing rays coming your way from me sue

>

> >

> >i just dont get it sue, what have we done to deserve this?

> >

>