Guest guest Posted June 25, 2001 Report Share Posted June 25, 2001 Hi (drutledge) :-)It's good to see you with the group! , something else came to mind when you mentioned your problem with anemia. Back when Dr. Brown was treating patients, he found that patients who arrived in an anemic state prior to treatment with the AP would eventuall correct the iron problem at the same time that they were getting better from their rheumatic disease by sticking with the AP. I recently came across an abstract of an article on how various " bugs " in our system can scavenge our iron supply.....thus, it would make sense that Dr. Brown advised his patients to hold the course and that the iron situation would improve as the mycoplasma or other infections were eliminated. My recent post #23094 in the archives has that abstract. Good luck to you, please keep us posted. Connie > , Their are many different forms of anemia, one is pernous anemia that can cause the problems that you are describing with your tongue. Although iron is one factor, the other is directly related to your systems ability to utilize the iron from your foods. You may wish to take to your oncologist and rheumy about bringing in and endocrinologist to find out why to are not metabolizing iron correctly. > My daughter also has a severe problem with anemia, we have found that a tablespoon of molasses works great, with no side effects. She prefers Brier's. We have been using this on her since she was 2 years old. Now 18. With no adverse problems. > > Hope this helps. > R. > > OK.....my tongue is fat, swollen, sore and rough. It wakes me up at night > because it takes up too much space and hurts. I am severely anemic....but > also severely allergic to all forms of iron. The oncologist/hematologist is > at witt's end trying to figure out how to pump up the iron. What I eat seems > to have NO effect. Got any ideas? ;-) > > (wsm311@a...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2001 Report Share Posted November 19, 2001 Good morning, Is the high level of iron and ferritine in my blood coming from the hepatitis?? Re: [ ] Prayer needed The main thing is to eat healthy. The only thing thateverybody seems to agree with is no alcohol. Otherwisetry to limit red meat and other fatty foods. If youtake vitamins avoid those with added iron, I guess itis rough on our livers. Glad you decided to stay on,we certainly are not here to offend anybody. -dz- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2001 Report Share Posted November 20, 2001 Good morning Raf..I don't see why it would..Maybe someone else can answer better but I was told too much iron is bad for the liver...I was told to stay away from it..When did you say you would have your biopsy?? I had mine June of last year..Keep in touch.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2001 Report Share Posted November 20, 2001 Mind you this is just my best guess, but considering that our livers have difficulty processing iron, I would think it very possible it could lead to higher levels. -dz- --- Raf <rafheule@...> wrote: > > > Good morning, > > Is the high level of iron and ferritine in my blood > coming from the hepatitis?? > > > > Re: [ ] Prayer needed > > > The main thing is to eat healthy. The only thing > that > everybody seems to agree with is no alcohol. > Otherwise > try to limit red meat and other fatty foods. If > you > take vitamins avoid those with added iron, I guess > it > is rough on our livers. Glad you decided to stay > on, > we certainly are not here to offend anybody. -dz- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2001 Report Share Posted November 20, 2001 Hi Raf I don't know for sure if it is caused by the hep or not. You should avoid any dietary supplement containing iron. I think that iron is one of the things that helps the virus replicate. Re: [ ] Prayer needed The main thing is to eat healthy. The only thing thateverybody seems to agree with is no alcohol. Otherwisetry to limit red meat and other fatty foods. If youtake vitamins avoid those with added iron, I guess itis rough on our livers. Glad you decided to stay on,we certainly are not here to offend anybody. -dz- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2002 Report Share Posted February 25, 2002 Hi First of all, just yesterday I found a half written email to you composed -- um -- last year when we corresponded privately when I initiated the correspondence. I must have forgotten to send it off. You must have thought I was very rude. I'm so sorry! I have spirulina in the morning on my shredded wheat or porridge. But I also take either one of two liquid irons -- Spa Tone plus or Biocare Nurtisorb Liquid iron (Iron Ascorbate) drops, both taken with water and both from British companies. The liquid irons are better absorbed because they don't go through the liver like pills. I do take them with PLJ, a natural lemon juice drink available in England, as iron should be taken with vitamin C. I am definitely seeing a difference in my health and I think spirulina is a good supplement. At least it doesn't seem to be doing me any harm. As you say, there are different types of anaemia which means bloodlessness rather than lack of iron. Iron deficient and also vitamin deficiency anaemia and so called " auto immune " anaemia. But, at risk of playing the same old CD <grin>, women are far more likely to suffer from some degree of iron or vitamin deficiency because of menstruation and then degenerate into a noticeable " autoimmune " anaemia. What matters of course is the degree. Ironically, many docs dismiss blood tests which show anaemia in women because of menstruation and the indoctrination that somehow women can be anaemic but somehow " make up " the deficiencies and such deficiencies are therefore in their words, " significant " . So in a rather schizophrenic (please excuse the allusion to another medical condition, I don't like it but I can't think of a better word) fashion they recognise that menstruation does cause deficiencies but on the other seem to believe that because it's natural to women it doesn't matter and deficiencies ignored. The same in men would often be picked up on. This is often also the attitude of quite a alternative medicine practioners as well. When menstrual problems are not associated with reproductive problems or malignant conditions, they are often dismissed. I know for a fact that anaemia runs in my family, but although my grandfather was told he should " eat more liver " when young and finally diagnosed as having anaemia, it has been dismissed in my mother and myself leaving us each at various times at death's door. Obviously, as I have said, the deficiency may be very little, negligible in some women, while in others it is much greater. It's not the same for everybody. But I think it is possible to have iron and vitamin deficiency and also autoimmune anaemia at the same time because of the amount and effect of menstruation on some women. And anaemia itself can cause menstrual problems, so it's a vicious circle. But as I say, a lot of women don't have any problems, at least none they notice and impede their lives. I personally only started having ill health at puberty and my grandfather lived into his eighties (although we didn't realise at the time there was a family anaemia) with very little medication. Obviously if I hadn't menstruated, I probably wouldn't really have noticed many symptoms, having lived with them all my life and still managing to continue with my life. My grandfather was diagnosed during a time of extreme physical stress during the last world war. But the menstruation flooding caused by anaemia didn't allow me to continue like this from the start of my periods and I still believe a lot of women, while obviously not having the same kind of degree of problem, have a cumulative effect from their periods over the years. And then start to have all sorts of immune system problems, amongst other things, caused by anaemia and then start being diagnosed with full blown conditions. And of course in between this, women have been on antibiotics and steroid chemicals called the birth control pill, which predispose to yeast overgrowth and then candidiasis and cause even more deficiencies of vitamins and minerals. I am sometimes not sure on this list whether candidiasis is viewed as a condition on its own. I don't think it is a condition on its own but other imbalances and deficiencies give rise to it. But at the same time, I have come to view the divisions into different conditions and hospital departments as entirely artificial in any case, so I guess the same can be said of many so-called diseases. Not, I admit, an original thought, but true nevertheless and, as some of you have probably realised, I don't think it does any harm repeating things <grin> But as you've probably guessed by my insistence <grin>, I do think iron is the culprit in quite a lot of women's ill health combined with the woeful effects of the birth control pill, which has been a suppressed worldwide scandal. Again I'm not against birth control and if the chemicals in the birth control pill and other so-called steroid " hormones " didn't cause ill health, I wouldn't say a word against them. In a message dated 2/25/02 3:51:19 PM, bexs@... writes: >There are different types of anaemia - not just to do with a lack of iron >but other substances that are contained in blood that might be lacking. > >I think I have been fortunate that I have had never had a problem with >iron - unless I'm in the third trimester of pregnancy. I have found that >my iron levels do return to normal once the little one in question is born...does >take awhile. But babies are like that! They never go without while they >are inside you - it's your own body that takes the hiding first (darn it! >It would be nicer to have no one go with out) > >btw: has anyone tried Spirulina? This is very rich in iron and very absorbable. >It might work for those who have absorption problems due to Candida - I >don't really know this for sure but I feel very good taking it and have >noticed no nasty side effects. I've been taking it for the iron and also >to get some of my energy back during this last trimester - I feel it is >working well and better than being constipated from those blasted prescription >ferrous sulphate tablets. > > T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2002 Report Share Posted February 25, 2002 Another thing I just recently found out is that if you use thyroid meds you should not take your iron at the same time. So, thyroid meds in the morning, iron and C at night. Why don't they tell us all these things at the same time. No one ever told me to take C at the same time as iron and avoid E. I found it on the net. Then when you say this to the doctor he shrugs and says, we assume you know that. grrrrrrr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 I just came back from blood work. Dr. said slight anemia is typical in pregnancy, whatever that is worth. Snip: > Both times I was pregnant, my blood work showed slight anemia in the last > trimester. Both times I was told to take slow-fe, over the counter iron > supplement. I have not done alot of research on iron. I wonder if this > could have been a contributor to my younger son's autism? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 No reason to take Iron tabs during pregnancy. If fact it is very dengerous. Iron gives life, it can also take away life. Chelation works, and it works because it is chelating Iron. Once you stop chelating the symptoms may come back if you diet is still rich in Iron. Please try chelation with IP6 before you try ALA and DSMA. Some kids can not tolerate ALA and DSMA and though these may show some improvement in the begining, in the long term may damage delicate organs. for more info http://www.geocities.com/upadhye10/index.html > I just came back from blood work. Dr. said slight anemia is typical in > pregnancy, whatever that is worth. > > > > Snip: > > > Both times I was pregnant, my blood work showed slight anemia in the last > > trimester. Both times I was told to take slow-fe, over the counter iron > > supplement. I have not done alot of research on iron. I wonder if this > > could have been a contributor to my younger son's autism? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 Dear " upadhye10 " , This is really getting tedious. You have not responded to quite a number of questions from me and others about some of your statements. Then you later post variations on these statements/claims. Please don't think people do not notice this behavior on your part. It is quite apparent. And, in case anyone missed it, I am now pointing it out, even more directly than I did the last time. When you ignore reasonable questions you do NOT look like a credible source of information. I find it very tedious to write thoughtful questions which you do not respond to. Now you post yet again, and I can decide to again invest my time in writing thoughtful questions. Gee, what a waste of effort! Please clarify: what is your " plan " here? Do you plan to continue to ignore reasonable questions addressed to you about claims you make? Do you plan to continue posting claims you won't discuss? Do you think I and others will just stop asking? Do you think I should not be asking you this now? Just how much more pointed would you like me to get? I assure you that I think your statements (in post below) do not go unquestioned on this list. regards, Moria > No reason to take Iron tabs during pregnancy. If fact it is very > dengerous. Iron gives life, it can also take away life. > Chelation works, and it works because it is chelating Iron. Once you > stop chelating the symptoms may come back if you diet is still rich in > Iron. > Please try chelation with IP6 before you try ALA and DSMA. Some kids > can not tolerate ALA and DSMA and though these may show some > improvement in the begining, in the long term may damage delicate > organs. for more info > http://www.geocities.com/upadhye10/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 Moria, Did you get a chance to visit my Web site and read this theory carefuly. Please do so, because most of the questions have been alredy answered. http://www.geocities.com/upadhye10/index.html Thanks > > No reason to take Iron tabs during pregnancy. If fact it is very > > dengerous. Iron gives life, it can also take away life. > > Chelation works, and it works because it is chelating Iron. Once you > > stop chelating the symptoms may come back if you diet is still rich > in > > Iron. > > Please try chelation with IP6 before you try ALA and DSMA. Some kids > > can not tolerate ALA and DSMA and though these may show some > > improvement in the begining, in the long term may damage delicate > > organs. for more info > > http://www.geocities.com/upadhye10/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 --- upadhye10 <upadhye10@...> wrote: > Moria, > Did you get a chance to visit my Web site and read > this theory > carefuly. Please do so, because most of the > questions have been alredy > answered. > http://www.geocities.com/upadhye10/index.html > Thanks > Will the excess iron show up directly in a test somewhere, or must it be inferred (as is usually the case for mercury)? Max __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 I have to agree with Moria. Just linking to a site where a theory of iron-overload being the cause of all disease doesn't further understanding of the subject at hand. Also, the site is very one-sided in its point of view another reason why discussion is important, not just " here is my point of view and you're welcome to it. " Did you know that there are studies that indicate that iron deficiency can lead to brain dysfunction similar in nature to the ones you claim to be caused by excessive iron? Did you also know that iron is essential in the conversion of phenylalanine to tyrosine which is the beginning of the catecholamine pathway? And that many children with autism and Down's Syndrome have problems with that? Now, I fully agree that iron overload is an important issue and must be dealt with in an individualized manner and not with statements like " No reason to take Iron tabs during pregnancy. In (sp) fact it is very dangerous (sp). Iron gives life, it can also take away life. Chelation works and it works because it is chelating Iron. " This is way too general, possibly incorrect and potentially harmful as a broad piece of advice. Discussion, not dogmatic stances, are the ways to further science and in the end run, improve the health and lives of ourselves and our children. In health, Mark Schauss www.carbonbased.com [ ] Re: Iron Moria, Did you get a chance to visit my Web site and read this theory carefuly. Please do so, because most of the questions have been alredy answered. http://www.geocities.com/upadhye10/index.html Thanks > > No reason to take Iron tabs during pregnancy. If fact it is very > > dengerous. Iron gives life, it can also take away life. > > Chelation works, and it works because it is chelating Iron. Once you > > stop chelating the symptoms may come back if you diet is still rich > in > > Iron. > > Please try chelation with IP6 before you try ALA and DSMA. Some kids > > can not tolerate ALA and DSMA and though these may show some > > improvement in the begining, in the long term may damage delicate > > organs. for more info > > http://www.geocities.com/upadhye10/index.html ======================================================= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 Max, Iron should be tested by running the following tests: Transferrin, Total Iron, Ferritin and TIBC (total iron binding capacity). The combination of these tests can show what the iron status is. In health, Mark Schauss www.carbonbased.com Re: [ ] Re: Iron --- upadhye10 <upadhye10@...> wrote: > Moria, > Did you get a chance to visit my Web site and read > this theory > carefuly. Please do so, because most of the > questions have been alredy > answered. > http://www.geocities.com/upadhye10/index.html > Thanks > Will the excess iron show up directly in a test somewhere, or must it be inferred (as is usually the case for mercury)? Max __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2002 Report Share Posted July 17, 2002 " upadhye10 " , Thank you very much for responding. > Did you get a chance to visit my Web site and read this theory > carefuly. I did read through much of it about a month or so ago, when you started posting about it. > Please do so, because most of the questions have been alredy > answered. Um, I believe that there are a lot of questions being asked here that are NOT answered on your website. Here are some of the recent questions. I don't think you addressed any of these posts (these are all excerpts): 51038 Moria (repeated in 52266): How would your kids getting better through the use of an iron chelator show that mercury is not a problem? Your kids getting better through iron chelation may be, but that is not the same as mercury not being a problem. Do you not believe in mercury poisoning? Have you had your kids tested for it? Do you have any idea whether whatever substance you are referring to (probably ALA?) even chelates iron? Can you give some indication WHY you think it chelates iron? Can you give some evidence that mercury is NOT toxic? (good luck on that one). Can you give some evidence that all autistic children are NOT mercury toxic (good luck on that one also). 52266 Moria: If iron detox is really great stuff, sure, I want to know about it. On the other hand, I see no reason why that implies that DAN doctors are a either greedy or a waste of money! Perhaps you could explain the connection as to why you think DAN doctors are such a waste of money and are greedy? OOPS-- one more question-- regarding " every parent should try it " (yes, this also sets off a few warning lights for me): could you please discuss the side effects, risks, or counterindications for this type of therapy. Gaylen, post 52315: I'm still confused, is this a vitamin or what? Where do you order it? What's it made from? How does it chelate? Is IP6 only for kids with iron overload or does it help with the reduction of other metals as well? 52339 Celia: I would believe this was a joke if I had not read the site (continually) Please enlighten us with the studies showing a link between autism and excess iron, OR excess iron and neurodevolopmental disorder, or any thing remotely similar. Are you suggesting a higher incidence of autism in Ireland, because of the history of eating potatoes?? HA HA HA HA > HA HA HA ---Very good!!!!! 52647 Mark Schauss: Did you know that there are studies that indicate that iron deficiency can lead to brain dysfunction similar in nature to the ones you claim to be caused by excessive iron? Did you also know that iron is essential in the conversion of phenylalanine to tyrosine which is the beginning of the catecholamine pathway? And that many children with autism and Down's Syndrome have problems with that? finally here are my questions about 52611, below: > > > No reason to take Iron tabs during pregnancy. If fact it is very > > > dengerous. Iron gives life, it can also take away life. > > > Chelation works, and it works because it is chelating Iron. What evidence have you got that chelating is removing iron? I'm not even asking for evidence that that is " what helped " -- just the basics here: do you have any evidence that people chelating with ALA/DMSA are removing any iron? Surely we will all need to know this before deciding whether this is the real issue addressed by chelation. I look forward to reading your answers to these questions. It seems to me a reasonable thing for you to do since you are the one who is posting all these rather sensational statements about greedy DAN doctors, chelation removing iron, every parent should try it, no need to take iron, iron is the real problem, etc. This has nothing to do with whether you have good intentions. It has to do with being informative. Many of the questions above are extremely relevant. best wishes, Moria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2002 Report Share Posted July 17, 2002 Moria, There is no doubt that mercury is poisonous. But here is why I think it may not be the root cause. 1. Many families including myself have observed direct causal effect of iron supplementation and Autistic behavior. 2. If mercury is the problem, why do the the symptoms come back once you stop chelation? Because Iron levels starts building up again. 3. Any organic acid can chelate iron, these include IP6 (Phytic acid), Malic Acid (present in apple), Lactic acid, ALA, DMSA, ascorbic acid etc. But we have found out that the most natural and safe way is the use of IP6. Last this: I am just promoting natural non iron fortified food. The burden of proof, that these radiculous level of iron in infant diet are safe, should lie on FDA, NIH, AAP etc. Also I have added several new intresting on my website. http://www.geocities.com/upadhye10/index.html > " upadhye10 " , > > Thank you very much for responding. > > > Did you get a chance to visit my Web site and read this theory > > carefuly. > > I did read through much of it about a month or so ago, when > you started posting about it. > > > Please do so, because most of the questions have been > alredy > > answered. > > Um, I believe that there are a lot of questions being asked > here that are NOT answered on your website. Here are some > of the recent questions. I don't think you addressed any > of these posts (these are all excerpts): > > 51038 Moria (repeated in 52266): > How would your kids getting better through the use of an iron > chelator show that mercury is not a problem? Your kids getting > better through iron chelation may be, but that is not the same as > mercury not being a problem. Do you not believe in mercury > poisoning? Have you had your kids tested for it? Do you > have any idea whether whatever substance you are referring > to (probably ALA?) even chelates iron? Can you give some > indication WHY you think it chelates iron? Can you give some > evidence that mercury is NOT toxic? (good luck on that one). > Can you give some evidence that all autistic children are > NOT mercury toxic (good luck on that one also). > > 52266 Moria: > If iron detox is really great stuff, sure, I want to know > about it. On the other hand, I see no reason why that > implies that DAN doctors are a either greedy or a waste > of money! Perhaps you could explain the connection as > to why you think DAN doctors are such a waste of money > and are greedy? > OOPS-- one more question-- regarding " every parent should > try it " (yes, this also sets off a few warning lights for > me): could you please discuss the side effects, risks, or > counterindications for this type of therapy. > > Gaylen, post 52315: > I'm still confused, is this a vitamin or what? Where do you > order it? What's it made from? How does it chelate? > Is IP6 only for kids with iron overload or does it help with > the reduction of other metals as well? > > 52339 Celia: > I would believe this was a joke if I had not read the site > (continually) Please enlighten us with the studies showing a > link between autism and excess iron, OR excess iron and > neurodevolopmental disorder, or any thing remotely similar. > Are you suggesting a higher incidence of autism in Ireland, > because of the history of eating potatoes?? HA HA HA HA > > HA HA HA ---Very good!!!!! > > 52647 Mark Schauss: > Did you know that there are studies that indicate that iron deficiency > can lead to brain dysfunction similar in nature to the ones you claim > to be caused by excessive iron? > Did you also know that iron is essential in the conversion of > phenylalanine to tyrosine which is the beginning of the catecholamine > pathway? And that many children with autism and Down's Syndrome have > problems with that? > > finally here are my questions about 52611, below: > > > > > No reason to take Iron tabs during pregnancy. If fact it is very > > > > dengerous. Iron gives life, it can also take away life. > > > > Chelation works, and it works because it is chelating Iron. > > What evidence have you got that chelating is removing iron? I'm > not even asking for evidence that that is " what helped " -- just > the basics here: do you have any evidence that people chelating > with ALA/DMSA are removing any iron? Surely we will all need > to know this before deciding whether this is the real issue > addressed by chelation. > > I look forward to reading your answers to these questions. > It seems to me a reasonable thing for you to do since you > are the one who is posting all these rather sensational > statements about greedy DAN doctors, chelation removing > iron, every parent should try it, no need to take iron, iron > is the real problem, etc. > > This has nothing to do with whether you have good intentions. > It has to do with being informative. Many of the questions > above are extremely relevant. > > best wishes, > Moria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2002 Report Share Posted July 17, 2002 Mark, The reason I link a website is because it is impossible to type in all the research documents here. Nobody disagrees that iron plays a very important role in metabolism, but what we are discussing is what levels are safe? Is the level of .5mg/L in mother's milk safe or 12mg/l in formula safe? I am saying that the level in mother milk is safe, because millions of generations have grown up on mother's milk safely. So what changed in last 30 years that FDA, AAP are recommending these franken food. This is noting but marketing tactic used by infant food manufacturers. They claim that mother's milk lacks iron and that is why you need to use our artificial iron fortified formula. I have studied over 40 studies on infant and Iron and none has proven that dietary iron deficiency is related to mental retardation on the contrary the opposite is true. for more info http://www.geocities.com/upadhye10/index.html > > > No reason to take Iron tabs during pregnancy. If fact it is very > > > dengerous. Iron gives life, it can also take away life. > > > Chelation works, and it works because it is chelating Iron. Once > you > > > stop chelating the symptoms may come back if you diet is still > rich > > in > > > Iron. > > > Please try chelation with IP6 before you try ALA and DSMA. Some > kids > > > can not tolerate ALA and DSMA and though these may show some > > > improvement in the begining, in the long term may damage delicate > > > organs. for more info > > > http://www.geocities.com/upadhye10/index.html > > > > ======================================================= > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2002 Report Share Posted July 17, 2002 Hello " upadhye10 " , > There is no doubt that mercury is poisonous. well then would you kindly stop posting things saying that it is not a problem? and that parents should not chelate using ALA/DMSA? Holy smoke Batman! > But here is why I think > it may not be the root cause. ah! now you sound a little more reasonable=== you say it " may " not be the root cause. perhaps you could also refrain from saying that iron IS " the " problem. What do you think? Do you think that might make you a bit more credible? In very fact, I do not think it is demostrated that mercury is " the " cause of autism. I do think that mercury is quite heavily implicated, and I also think there are almost certainly multiple causes. But then, I don't really believe in single causes to begin with........I find life more complex..... > 1. Many families including myself have observed direct causal effect > of iron supplementation and Autistic behavior. yes, and this is good info to pass on in a clear and specific manner so that others can benefit. There are also other things that have a clearly observed correlation. Such as G and C and hydrogenated fats and not giving supplements etc etc. This proves that there is an observered correlation in the individuals observed. Different than being " the " cause of autism in all. It may not be " the cause " even in the individuals you are observing. Or it might Do you think that G and C and hydrogenated fats and lack of supplements cause autism? are any of them " the " cause? What makes you think that ALL autistic kiddos are iron toxic? (you have said it is the cause of autism, I believe.) HAVE you had your kids tested for mercury and other metals? or yourself? > 2. If mercury is the problem, why do the the symptoms come back once > you stop chelation? I'm not aware that they do. I only know of a handful of kids who have stopped chelating, and I am not collecting data on them. The changes I've seen in myself which I believe are due to chelation are quite stable FWIW. Also, I am unlikely to have the iron tox issue, since I have been vegetarian for many years. When you say that iron is " the " problem, you are also saying that mercury is not a problem. Which really seems pretty dumb. Or maybe uninformed. In which case you could try reading this list for a while. Or some books on it. > Last this: I am just promoting natural non iron fortified food. The > burden of proof, that these radiculous level of iron in infant diet > are safe, should lie on FDA, NIH, AAP etc. I am aware that iron can cause serious problems. I read a bunch of stuff about how it is implicated in heart disease a number of years ago, but have not followed it since. I also find your family's case interesting. I would probably find it MORE interesting if you would be realistic about it. As for " burdens of proof " , you have made quite a number of " extreme " statements here on this list. The FDA, NIH and AAP do not write here. You do. I am not suggesting that you or anyone MUST prove every statement. On the other hand, I don't think you should run roughshod over the list, ignoring rebuttals to your very general claims, either. Saying things like that ALL parents should try IP6, and that mercury " is not the problem " need to be refined unless we are to just dismissed them (and you) as wacko. You are not JUST promoting non iron fortified foods. You are telling people that ALL parents should try IP6, and that iron is THE problem causing autism and that mercury is NOT the problem. And so on. The questions people ask give you the opportunity to clarify and correct and expand on your statements. You can take the opportunity and become more credible, or you can keep saying things like " iron is the problem not mercury " and " all parents should try IP6 " and " greedy doctors " . And what about the greedy DAN doctors? You didn't explain that one. And, counterindications or tests for whether iron chelation is appropriate? That really would help with my understanding that ALL parents should try IP6. Please note I am not saying ANYWHERE that iron tox is not a problem, or is not related to autism. I don't have an opinion on it as of yet. regards, Moria is > > Also I have added several new intresting on my website. > > http://www.geocities.com/upadhye10/index.html > > > > " upadhye10 " , > > > > Thank you very much for responding. > > > > > Did you get a chance to visit my Web site and read this theory > > > carefuly. > > > > I did read through much of it about a month or so ago, when > > you started posting about it. > > > > > Please do so, because most of the questions have been > > alredy > > > answered. > > > > Um, I believe that there are a lot of questions being asked > > here that are NOT answered on your website. Here are some > > of the recent questions. I don't think you addressed any > > of these posts (these are all excerpts): > > > > 51038 Moria (repeated in 52266): > > How would your kids getting better through the use of an iron > > chelator show that mercury is not a problem? Your kids getting > > better through iron chelation may be, but that is not the same as > > mercury not being a problem. Do you not believe in mercury > > poisoning? Have you had your kids tested for it? Do you > > have any idea whether whatever substance you are referring > > to (probably ALA?) even chelates iron? Can you give some > > indication WHY you think it chelates iron? Can you give some > > evidence that mercury is NOT toxic? (good luck on that one). > > Can you give some evidence that all autistic children are > > NOT mercury toxic (good luck on that one also). > > > > 52266 Moria: > > If iron detox is really great stuff, sure, I want to know > > about it. On the other hand, I see no reason why that > > implies that DAN doctors are a either greedy or a waste > > of money! Perhaps you could explain the connection as > > to why you think DAN doctors are such a waste of money > > and are greedy? > > OOPS-- one more question-- regarding " every parent should > > try it " (yes, this also sets off a few warning lights for > > me): could you please discuss the side effects, risks, or > > counterindications for this type of therapy. > > > > Gaylen, post 52315: > > I'm still confused, is this a vitamin or what? Where do you > > order it? What's it made from? How does it chelate? > > Is IP6 only for kids with iron overload or does it help with > > the reduction of other metals as well? > > > > 52339 Celia: > > I would believe this was a joke if I had not read the site > > (continually) Please enlighten us with the studies showing a > > link between autism and excess iron, OR excess iron and > > neurodevolopmental disorder, or any thing remotely similar. > > Are you suggesting a higher incidence of autism in Ireland, > > because of the history of eating potatoes?? HA HA HA HA > > > HA HA HA ---Very good!!!!! > > > > 52647 Mark Schauss: > > Did you know that there are studies that indicate that iron > deficiency > > can lead to brain dysfunction similar in nature to the ones you > claim > > to be caused by excessive iron? > > Did you also know that iron is essential in the conversion of > > phenylalanine to tyrosine which is the beginning of the > catecholamine > > pathway? And that many children with autism and Down's Syndrome have > > problems with that? > > > > finally here are my questions about 52611, below: > > > > > > > No reason to take Iron tabs during pregnancy. If fact it is > very > > > > > dengerous. Iron gives life, it can also take away life. > > > > > Chelation works, and it works because it is chelating Iron. > > > > What evidence have you got that chelating is removing iron? I'm > > not even asking for evidence that that is " what helped " -- just > > the basics here: do you have any evidence that people chelating > > with ALA/DMSA are removing any iron? Surely we will all need > > to know this before deciding whether this is the real issue > > addressed by chelation. > > > > I look forward to reading your answers to these questions. > > It seems to me a reasonable thing for you to do since you > > are the one who is posting all these rather sensational > > statements about greedy DAN doctors, chelation removing > > iron, every parent should try it, no need to take iron, iron > > is the real problem, etc. > > > > This has nothing to do with whether you have good intentions. > > It has to do with being informative. Many of the questions > > above are extremely relevant. > > > > best wishes, > > Moria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2002 Report Share Posted July 17, 2002 > There is no doubt that mercury is poisonous. But here is why I think > it may not be the root cause. > 1. Many families including myself have observed direct causal effect > of iron supplementation and Autistic behavior. > 2. If mercury is the problem, why do the the symptoms come back once > you stop chelation? They don't if you chelate properly. > Because Iron levels starts building up again. > 3. Any organic acid can chelate iron, these include > IP6 (Phytic acid), Malic Acid (present in apple), Lactic acid, ALA, > DMSA, ascorbic acid etc. But we have found out that the most natural > and safe way is the use of IP6. In a chemical sense this is a random statement. > > Last this: I am just promoting natural non iron fortified food. The > burden of proof, that these radiculous level of iron in infant diet > are safe, should lie on FDA, NIH, AAP etc. This is a reasonable position. What appears to be going on is as follows, and it is the same as occurs in adults: Mercury and all heavy metals exert part of their toxic effects because they are oxidation catalysts. Several of they physiologically necessary elements are also oxidation catalysts at the concentrations of interest. Copper and Iron are the two biggies. Since these are such powerful oxidation catalysts, the body has many mechanisms to control them and regulate their levels. People toxic with heavy metals, which their body can't regulate, tend to dump iron and to a lesser extent copper (which is harder for them to regulate, and is needed at higher levels relative to its toxicity than is iron) which is the body's rational adaptation to the intoxication. If you take children who are NOT heavy metal toxic and feed them lots of iron supplements they quickly get toxic - iron is toxic at amounts only modestly above the daily intake. Same for copper. Children are especially sensitive to iron. Andy . . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 think it depends on how low ferritin level is. We were at 30 mg/day for a year until the ferritin came way up (from like 8 to 50ish) and now we're just on a maintenance dose. Also the weight/age of the child. I'd call the office to make sure. Becky iron > hello! > Can someone remind me of the amt of iron Dr G recommends > for our kids? also, what kind of iron? > I just found a really nice Childrens Vit but I think the Iron is > too low. > > Thanks! > > Doris > maryland > > > > > > > > Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with > the original author(s), and is not necessarily endorsed by or the > opinion of the Research Institute. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 I'm not sure if this has been answered yet but I think the dosage is based on weight but then again maybe not. I used to give Tyler 1 tsp. daily of a liquid iron supplement but they vary by degree in concentration. We are now using a tablet. Both forms of Iron that we used were recommended by Dr. G. leslie -- iron hello! Can someone remind me of the amt of iron Dr G recommends for our kids? also, what kind of iron? I just found a really nice Childrens Vit but I think the Iron is too low. Thanks! Doris maryland Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with the original author(s), and is not necessarily endorsed by or the opinion of the Research Institute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 45-50mg of elemental Iron usually depending on size - Feosol caplets are good - that is Carbonyl Iron. Also elixirs are available too in the form of Iron Sulphate - if pill swallowing is difficult. He doesn't like supplements with exta iron as they usually don't deliver enough, and have other stuff. iron hello! Can someone remind me of the amt of iron Dr G recommends for our kids? also, what kind of iron? I just found a really nice Childrens Vit but I think the Iron is too low. Thanks! Doris maryland Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with the original author(s), and is not necessarily endorsed by or the opinion of the Research Institute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 I believe it needs to contain 65 mg of elemental iron. Good Luck~~ Rose Re: iron think it depends on how low ferritin level is. We were at 30 mg/day for a year until the ferritin came way up (from like 8 to 50ish) and now we're just on a maintenance dose. Also the weight/age of the child. I'd call the office to make sure. Becky Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with the original author(s), and is not necessarily endorsed by or the opinion of the Research Institute. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 Thanks ! feosol is out because it contains lactose and reacts to it. What is elemental iron? I haven't been able to find this type of iron. Is it easily digested? Broken down? doris Md Message: 1 Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:16:32 +0800 From: " R M " <rmwilson@...> Subject: RE: iron 45-50mg of elemental Iron usually depending on size - Feosol caplets are good - that is Carbonyl Iron. Also elixirs are available too in the form of Iron Sulphate - if pill swallowing is difficult. He doesn't like supplements with exta iron as they usually don't deliver enough, and have other stuff. iron hello! Can someone remind me of the amt of iron Dr G recommends for our kids? also, what kind of iron? I just found a really nice Childrens Vit but I think the Iron is too low. Thanks! Doris maryland Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with the original author(s), and is not necessarily endorsed by or the opinion of the Research Institute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 Another one to look into might be " Iron Caps " by TwinLab. C. ---------------------------- > Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with > the original author(s), and is not necessarily endorsed by or the > opinion of the Research Institute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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