Apology

[Guest guest]

| Listmates: Forgive the infliction of my anger outburst at Andy onto the

group...

| I feel now that I as many others in the past need to stop posting on this

group, and that makes me sad, but I don't

think it serves parents to have experts arguing...

Dear Dr. Jaquelyn,

Your apology is appreciated, but the conclusion that you must leave this group

to avoid arguing is not. If Andy insists

on continuing to post his opposing views in his overly authoritative way, let

him. We don't have to argue with him.

This is an open list started by Lyn Redwood, not Andy, and if Andy can't

tolerate other's views, that's his challenge.

The folks on this list are smart enough to sift through opposing opinions and

form their own opinions.

My little problem here is that I've seen many posts on this list with

observations made by people other than Andy that

conflict with Andy's views, and he refutes them in such an obnoxious way that

they either leave the group or cease to

post their important, valid observations. The gut bug issue, and the issue of

other metals leaving before mercury, are

long standing examples of this.

I don't want to be slammed for being Anti-Andy, but it would be nice if he also

apologized for his occasionally

obnoxious rantings against opposing views, and his persistant obnoxious comments

against physicians in general, and DAN

physicians in particular. DAN doctors help us far more than they hurt us, and

they, like everyone else involved with

this issue, are learning *. No one knows it all. So let's be tolerant of

other's views. If a forum such as this

doesn't show the immense value of collaberation, what will?

And thanks again for your informative posts. They are very much appreciated!

K.

* If you haven't read the chapter by Dr. Zimmerman in Dr. McCandless' book, try

to do so. It's a wonderfully

thought-provoking exploration of the larger meaning of our having been presented

with these challenges. We're meant to

grow - not tear each other down.

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr. McCandless,

We are your readers in Taiwan.

We all learn a lot from you.

This is the only way that we can know

biomedical treatment by this list.

(In Taiwan, we have NO Dr. tell us about

biomedical treatments)

We are so thankful for your help on both your book and this list.

So, please stay on this list.

Thanks again

Parents in Taiwan

[Guest guest]

I am from Indonesia.... I learn a lot from Dr. McCandless and DR.

Cutller.... please stay on the list. BTW.... I am responding your letter Dr.

McCandless.... feel very excited.... and hope you and your husband... can

really make the visit....in 2003. Thanks to both of you...

Best regards,

Debbie Sianturi

[ ] Re: Apology

> Dear Dr. McCandless,

>

> We are your readers in Taiwan.

> We all learn a lot from you.

> This is the only way that we can know

> biomedical treatment by this list.

> (In Taiwan, we have NO Dr. tell us about

> biomedical treatments)

> We are so thankful for your help on both your book and this list.

> So, please stay on this list.

> Thanks again

>

> Parents in Taiwan

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

I too welcome your posts. In fact, I sift through the large number every day

looking for two things -- a couple of subjects pertinent to us at the moment

-- and your posts.

For my son, we are now pursuing complex gut-healing treatments with an eye

toward chelation in the near future. Your continued presence here to answer

the many complicated questions and issues that arise to worry us, as parents,

is truly invaluable.

Often I'm in awe of how rapidly insight and innovation come to you in your

work and how generous you are in sharing newly found information.

In the final analysis, none of this is really about debating differing

viewpoints among professionals, or even losing one's temper at times when one

feels another professional is not listening or being abusive.

It's about helping our children and the others we love who have autism.

In that spirit, please stay with us, the parents.

Thanks.

Deborah

[Guest guest]

Amen!

> Thanks Sue, I want to heal

>

> Luv,

> Gwen

[Guest guest]

No this isn't a religious group, but we do respect each others beliefs..

I am sure it was not intended to hurt anyone or disrespect anyone. It

wasn't offensive to me at all... I agree with Sharon on the delete

button....... Rather than make a big issue out of something that was

innocent, just hit delete!!!! I use that button quite often when I see

things I don't agree with....

Terry thanks for sharing!!!!! I enjoyed it even if I do not go to church

every week...This is the reason we started this group...... We didn't

want to be dictated to and told what we could, or couldn't say and we

will continue to say and do what we feel.... We just wanted a place to

be ourselves and vent, share experiences and support each other in our

own way... We are one big Family here... And we will remain that

way!!!!!!!

I am sorry if I offend anyone by sharing my thoughts If so hit

DELETE!!!!!!!!

Angel Hugs,

Diane

May Rainbow Dreams Color Your World With Love, Hope, Peace & Unity

[Guest guest]

Ya know what Colleen!!!! You are exactly the type of person that we try

to stay away from...... You are very judgemental and negative. If you

had compassion for others, you wouldn't jump in here out of nowhere and

make a Good Man feel like a fool...... Hop on your UFO and go back to

the Group that you rule....... Maybe you might be reincarnated on your

trip, and come back a nicer God Fearing person.... If you are a

spokesperson and a writer, I would not want to be involved in any of

your projects.... How's that do ya!!!!!!!.

See Ya!!!!!!!!!!! You came out of nowhere and tried to make us look

stupid.... It AIN'T HAPPENING HERE!!!!!!!!!!! If you treat Hep C the way

you treat people you are probably a very unhappy person.....

Sending love and hugs to all of the real Godfearing people, and any

other religions that are here.

Angel Hugs,

Diane

May Rainbow Dreams Color Your World With Love, Hope, Peace & Unity

[Guest guest]

This is where I hit DELETE!!!!!!!!! have no desire to play whatever

game it is that keeps you going !!!!!!!!!!

This is NOT A MEDICAL SUPPORT GROUP!!!!!!! IT is a support group for

people who have problems, need to vent and need questions answered and

by all means need to feel the love and caring of others..... A place to

feel comfortable and not out of place for something they thought was a

nice gesture.... You never did see me sign on to your group and it is

not my bag. I like real people!!!!!

BTW...... It is MRS........... BYEEEEEEE

Angel Hugs,

Diane

May Rainbow Dreams Color Your World With Love, Hope, Peace & Unity

[Guest guest]

Hey There MS. Colleen,

I don't profess to be anything I have enough sensitivity not to make

others who put a post that they thought others would enjoy, feel like a

fool..... If you had any class you would have just ignored, it just like

I am going to do to you...... You are not the type of person that I

choose to waste my time on.... . I don't care what you think of

me........... God Bless you Colleen!!!!!!!!

Angel Hugs,

Diane

May Rainbow Dreams Color Your World With Love, Hope, Peace & Unity

[Guest guest]

Hi Ted,

Hope you are doing well..... I am glad that you are here with us.......

This is a great group of caring people. I am Happy to be a part of

it..... We have been thru a lot together here and we have never had a

problem since we started this group.... Sending warm hugs to you.

Angel Hugs,

Diane

May Rainbow Dreams Color Your World With Love, Hope, Peace & Unity

[Guest guest]

,

It will stop for sure. We have never had this type of thing here

before..... Welcome aboard!!!!!

Angel Hugs,

Diane

May Rainbow Dreams Color Your World With Love, Hope, Peace & Unity

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

What type of alternative are you choosing? I would be very interested

because I can not do the nterferon, ever again, due to a rare blood

disorder.... Welcome !!!!!!

Angel Hugs,

Diane

May Rainbow Dreams Color Your World With Love, Hope, Peace & Unity

[Guest guest]

sorry about the mispelled words... I have web tv and the keyboard is the

pits!!!!!

Angel Hugs,

Diane

May Rainbow Dreams Color Your World With Love, Hope, Peace & Unity

[Guest guest]

I will get the names of the group of herbs that the Doctor will be

giving to Ron. He will be getting them today and making tea from them

to drink. The Doctor said it would take about 4 months to start

making a difference, and that it would not kill the virus but would

teach the body to live with the virus. The way I understand it, each

group of herbs is for the individual. You can not self medicate

yourself. He treated Hep C in China for 6 years and has been in the

states for 13. He says there is much more Hepatitis in China than in

the U.S. We found him on a website that gives names of people

certified in Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine. The website is

www.nccaom.org. I initially found this website from www.pulsemed.org.

The publisher of this magazine, The Pulse of Oriental Medicine,

answered my email right away and said that you should find someone

that is either certified in Oriental Medicine or has many years

experience. So anyway, that's my story. We are very optimistic about

it!

> Hi ,

> What type of alternative are you choosing? I would be very

interested

> because I can not do the nterferon, ever again, due to a rare blood

> disorder.... Welcome !!!!!!

>

> Angel Hugs,

> Diane

>

> May Rainbow Dreams Color Your World With Love, Hope, Peace & Unity

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the info: ...... Let me know how you make out.

Angel Hugs,

Diane

May Rainbow Dreams Color Your World With Love, Hope, Peace & Unity

[Guest guest]

r. Nobody should try this on there own. I also do

> massage therapy.

> So far, I have been able to lower my LFT's from 2000 to 80 . It has

been

> about 8 months since I was diagnosed I take a lot of supplements

and I

> don't take Prednisone or Immuran. I haven't lost or gained any

weight. My

> Diet has changed. I don't eat sugars, shellfish, White flours, > EJ

>

> Nutrition, Herbs & Vitamins

> The Link to Better Health

Dear EJ,

Excuse me if I sound rude, but are you selling these remedies?

The two lines after your signature make it sound like a business.

Sharon G.

AIH, 1986

[Guest guest]

, Don't leave the group, simply because you have symptoms of neuro

lyme. Hey, we ALL have our moments. Believe me. I'm watching my

reactions all the time.

When we are battling such a misunderstood disease that is so-called

" invisible " in itself and then we are mistreated by the very doctors

we are taught to trust -- well, anger is an appropriate response.

You can see, even Barbara has her " defensive " moments, as in her

response to your " defensive " moment. Like I said, we ALL do.

Your apology took guts! Now, just laugh at yourself lovingly, as I

often laugh at myself and my reactions, and then know you are among

friends and comrades, who are waging a war. Don't give up over one

tiny skirmish. This is a frightening disease and it's easy to go to

that dark place inside where we are so alone and seemingly " safe. "

But it's not safe, because it's isolating and unhealthy. I know

because I've spent a LOT of time in that inner solitary confinement.

NOT fun.

I'd rather look foolish occassionally -- Hey, I'm a writer, who can't

even spell anymore - than disappear altoghether.

We need each other -- all of us. I know this disease scares the crap

out of me and I've been dealing with it -- and NOT dealing with it --

for 16 years.

As for not knowing what's " wrong " with you lately, as you said --

well, you know exactly what's " wrong " with you. The same thing that's

" wrong " with the rest of us on this group. We have Lyme Disease and

most of us can relate to the neurological consequences we experience.

Join the club! =)

Blessings,

> I wrote a private email apology to Barbara. I don't know what is

wrong with

> me lately.

[Guest guest]

,

As someone else said it takes a lot of guts to apologize. As to your

question about interpreting things wrong, in my opinion the most insidious

symptoms of Lyme are the neurological ones. It may only be a personal

reaction to the near constant pain or it could be chemical changes to the

brain. But the whole thing just sneaks up on most of us. Some of the most

important research about Lyme today is psychological in nature. The pshrink

they sent me to because I was imagining having Lyme diagnosed me with Lyme

not a mental illness. He also told me that there is a possibility that many

conditions believed to be " mental disorders " may have a bacterial or viral

basis. Freud may indeed be completely wrong!

As I said in my original email it was probably the " Lyme talking " and not

you and I was serious about that. I have been justly accused of being an

a**hole at times and I am sure it is the Lyme. It is not in my nature to be

that way but sometimes I am and I also wind up apologizing.

I am also sorry if I came on kind of strong I didn't intend that either.

Please hang around, we all only have each other really because those without

Lyme can sympathize but they don't really understand.

Dave

[ ] apology

I wrote a private email apology to Barbara. I don't know what is wrong with

me lately. I have been interpreting things wrong all the time. Do other

people have this with lyme?? I know I have become very defensive and angry

and I

hate myself for it, but I can't seem to stop it.

I felt that I was just responding to someone's email and that she jumped all

over me basically saying we shouldn't share medical advice.

Anyhow, sorry if it came across as an attack or hostile. I think maybe I

need to be off of these groups for awhile and get out more in the fresh air

and

stop thinking about my illness.

[Guest guest]

I have to tell you everyone when I'm herxing (sorry about the

spelling lol) I am capable of being one heck of a b**ch. I also get

really sensitive and freak out a the drop of a pin. So I can

understand where and Barbara are coming from. I Also think it's

really neat that Barbara is a MD, and I'm really sorry about you

losing your license and having to go through that! It should be the

doctors who won't treat that lose their license! I was wondering if

anyone has had the growth hormone stim test? and what it is like?

Anyways hope all is well with everyone!!

Jill

> I wrote a private email apology to Barbara. I don't know what is

wrong with

> me lately. I have been interpreting things wrong all the time. Do

other

> people have this with lyme?? I know I have become very defensive

and angry and I

> hate myself for it, but I can't seem to stop it.

>

> I felt that I was just responding to someone's email and that she

jumped all

> over me basically saying we shouldn't share medical advice.

>

> Anyhow, sorry if it came across as an attack or hostile. I think

maybe I

> need to be off of these groups for awhile and get out more in the

fresh air and

> stop thinking about my illness.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

---I'm still curious as to how you arrived at the statistics you

posted previously -

" Approximately 25% of dwarfs have a chemical dependency problem. "

Someone else asked how many dwarfs had participated in this study and

I haven't seen a response.

On this you may reply to the whole list, I suspect I'm not the only

one who is curious.

[Guest guest]

Don't you just love statistics? The best class I ever took in college was

statistical analysis. The prof loved to expose flawed, yet publicly accepted,

statistical data. One example was the quote that one fourth (25%) of all college

women report having been raped. Under further analysis, the quoter (it was some

famous feminist) broadly defined rape to include innappropriate touching, and

feelings of regret after having sex (even though it was consensual). Hell, by

that definition, many guys have been raped.

This current stat, 25% of all LPs have chemical dependency problems, strikes me

as one of those spurious numbers that needs to be examined. Does this include

prescription pain medicine? What about OTC pain medicine? What about other

types of meds, such as insulin? Insulin is a chemical that many people depend

on. Does it include questions such as " have you ever used alcohol while

depressed? " What about caffiene, sugar? Both chemicals (of which I'm

personally addicted to).

My gut feeling is that LPs are probably more likely than an AP to become

addicted to drugs or alcohol, and to suffer from depression. But not

drastically so.

-Bill

-------------- Original message --------------

---I'm still curious as to how you arrived at the statistics you

posted previously -

" Approximately 25% of dwarfs have a chemical dependency problem. "

Someone else asked how many dwarfs had participated in this study and

I haven't seen a response.

On this you may reply to the whole list, I suspect I'm not the only

one who is curious.

===

[Guest guest]

--- Bill wrote:

> My gut feeling is that LPs are probably more likely than an AP to

> become addicted to drugs or alcohol, and to suffer from

> depression. But not drastically so.

I don't know enough about substance abuse to know what the overall

percentage of chemcially dependent people are (never mind in a

specific community such as ours) and when I asked people in the

substance abuse field they had no idea either. I do have a problem

when folks start making statements about a community they have not

done research upon. And I quote:

" I'm still writing and organizing my material concerning chemical

dependency within the dwarf community , however, I do have my work

paper (about 45 pages) that I did as a result of my working in the

chemical dependency ward at a local hospital. It however, does not

specifically address dwarfs. "

How can you do research about substance abuse within the dwarf

community if you haven't studied the dwarf community?! And when

working with a specialized community you cannot use research for a

larger group to make assumptions for the smaller group. One can't

make assumptions on why addictions occur based on personal opinions

of what life in that group is like. Again, I quote:

1) lack of self esteem

Rose: Low self esteem shows up on every Dr. Phil show. Nobody has a

corner on this market.

2) depression-----for many reasons

Rose: Depression is a major cause for addictive behavior accross the

board.

3) pain pills because of physical pain

Rose: Does this assume that everyone who takes pain pills is addicted?

4) abused as a child

Rose: Child abuse can be a root to addictive behavior but is this

assuming that dwarfs are more likely to be abused?

5) guilt-----usually false guilt because of size

Rose: Now I'm beginning to laugh. We have guilt about our size? Huh?

6) societal oppression-----greatly involved with prejudice

Rose: Possible, but too simplistic.

7) an overzelous compensation for size---usually met with rejection

Rose: Still laughing. Not all dwarfs have a napoleonic complex.

8) overexpection in marriage--------divorce---------sex

Rose: Full blown guffawing now. Overexpectation of divorce? Yeah, I

have envy.

9) an over predilection for life which becomes detrimental resulting

in anger and injurious behavior

Rose: As soon as I figure out what Biffy is trying to say, I'll

comment. This seems too much like someone wanting to show off how

many big words they truly know.

Do I think addiction problems exist within LPA and the dwarf

community? Of course I do. We are human. Do I think that only people

with dwarfism are capable of studying dwarfs & addiction? No. But I

think it is irresponsible to claim one has done research when they

haven't.

This would be a very interesting topic to study and perhaps a

longterm study can start to take place at the next conference.

Rose

[Guest guest]

Good idea, Rose. We definitely need such studies. Someday I hope to

conduct some of them!

The tricky thing about studying anything about the dwarf community

is the sample...using either all LPA-affliated dwarfs or dwarfs not

involved in LPA will not give a true picture of dwarfism...and how

do we find significant numbers of dwarfs not in LPA? It's a tricky

task.

I think Dan K. made such a distinction in his book, Little People,

Seeing the World Through My Daughter's Eyes--the difference between

studying the LPA culture vs. the dwarf culture overall.

Cara

> > My gut feeling is that LPs are probably more likely than an AP

to

> > become addicted to drugs or alcohol, and to suffer

from

> > depression. But not drastically so.

>

>

> I don't know enough about substance abuse to know what the overall

> percentage of chemcially dependent people are (never mind in a

> specific community such as ours) and when I asked people in the

> substance abuse field they had no idea either. I do have a problem

> when folks start making statements about a community they have not

> done research upon. And I quote:

>

> " I'm still writing and organizing my material concerning chemical

> dependency within the dwarf community , however, I do have my

work

> paper (about 45 pages) that I did as a result of my working in the

> chemical dependency ward at a local hospital. It however, does not

> specifically address dwarfs. "

>

> How can you do research about substance abuse within the dwarf

> community if you haven't studied the dwarf community?! And when

> working with a specialized community you cannot use research for a

> larger group to make assumptions for the smaller group. One can't

> make assumptions on why addictions occur based on personal

opinions

> of what life in that group is like. Again, I quote:

>

> 1) lack of self esteem

> Rose: Low self esteem shows up on every Dr. Phil show. Nobody has

a

> corner on this market.

>

> 2) depression-----for many reasons

> Rose: Depression is a major cause for addictive behavior accross

the

> board.

>

> 3) pain pills because of physical pain

> Rose: Does this assume that everyone who takes pain pills is

addicted?

>

> 4) abused as a child

> Rose: Child abuse can be a root to addictive behavior but is this

> assuming that dwarfs are more likely to be abused?

>

> 5) guilt-----usually false guilt because of size

> Rose: Now I'm beginning to laugh. We have guilt about our size?

Huh?

>

> 6) societal oppression-----greatly involved with prejudice

> Rose: Possible, but too simplistic.

>

> 7) an overzelous compensation for size---usually met with rejection

> Rose: Still laughing. Not all dwarfs have a napoleonic complex.

>

> 8) overexpection in marriage--------divorce---------sex

> Rose: Full blown guffawing now. Overexpectation of divorce? Yeah,

I

> have envy.

>

> 9) an over predilection for life which becomes detrimental

resulting

> in anger and injurious behavior

> Rose: As soon as I figure out what Biffy is trying to say, I'll

> comment. This seems too much like someone wanting to show off how

> many big words they truly know.

>

> Do I think addiction problems exist within LPA and the dwarf

> community? Of course I do. We are human. Do I think that only

people

> with dwarfism are capable of studying dwarfs & addiction? No. But

I

> think it is irresponsible to claim one has done research when they

> haven't.

>

> This would be a very interesting topic to study and perhaps a

> longterm study can start to take place at the next conference.

>

> Rose

[Guest guest]

Oki-dokey....now I'm writing. Alcoholism is something you are predisposed

to. It is genetic. It is NOT a learned experience. LPs are NOT MORE

likely to become an alcoholic then anyone else. The same with pain

medication. You don't get hooked if you are using the pain medications for

true pain. If you are taking vicadin and feel like cleaning the house when

you take it....find a different pain medication. That is probably not the

right one for you.

Where people get confused is when dealing with chronic pain as opposed to

occasional pain.

Occasional pain....I threw my back out. I got hit by a car. Or, I just had

surgery.

Chronic pain.....my joints are deteriorating and on any given day I can't

walk to my scooter. I have severe arthritis. I have compressed discs in my

back. Those are lp problems.

Personally, I think 25% of ALL people probably have chemical dependency

problems....unless you live in Clackamas County, Oregon....then it is

probably 50%.

But that is just my opinion.

Karin

Re: Re: apology

>

> Don't you just love statistics? The best class I ever took in college was

> statistical analysis. The prof loved to expose flawed, yet publicly

> accepted, statistical data. One example was the quote that one fourth

> (25%) of all college women report having been raped. Under further

> analysis, the quoter (it was some famous feminist) broadly defined rape to

> include innappropriate touching, and feelings of regret after having sex

> (even though it was consensual). Hell, by that definition, many guys have

> been raped.

>

> This current stat, 25% of all LPs have chemical dependency problems,

> strikes me as one of those spurious numbers that needs to be examined.

> Does this include prescription pain medicine? What about OTC pain

> medicine? What about other types of meds, such as insulin? Insulin is a

> chemical that many people depend on. Does it include questions such as

> " have you ever used alcohol while depressed? " What about caffiene, sugar?

> Both chemicals (of which I'm personally addicted to).

>

> My gut feeling is that LPs are probably more likely than an AP to become

> addicted to drugs or alcohol, and to suffer from depression. But not

> drastically so.

>

> -Bill

>

> -------------- Original message --------------

>

> ---I'm still curious as to how you arrived at the statistics you

> posted previously -

>

> " Approximately 25% of dwarfs have a chemical dependency problem. "

>

> Someone else asked how many dwarfs had participated in this study and

> I haven't seen a response.

>

> On this you may reply to the whole list, I suspect I'm not the only

> one who is curious.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ===

>

[Guest guest]

Although I requested that Bill reply openly to the list, he didn't.

Perhaps he had changed his settings .....anywho quoted below is his e-

mail

----- From Bill, aka biffycomp@... -----

Some great research tools to use are the following:

1) Check with several psychologist that deal with Chemical Dependency

2) Check with the National Center Of Alcohol Anonomous

3) Check with the National Center Of Narcotics Anonomous

4) Check with the Gallop poll concerning Chemical Dependency in our

nation and world wide concerning various groups

5) Check with your own group at the next convention you attend for

Little People. Write out a simple form that would be anonomous-------

It would simply state and ask----

Have you or a member of your family that is a Little Person ever been

Chemically Dependent? Have them deposit the form in a box. After the

convention count the number that attended and the answers in the

anonomous box. Explain to them the importance of this poll. It is for

one reason only-----To see and realize the probem in your group and

to offer love, care, support, and peer help along with professional

assistance and financial help if needed. It would also raise the

conscience of awareness among your group.

I did all of these and some more except #5--------I do believe your

convention poll would also back the horrible situation that exists in

our world in various groups. I only want to help. I have no hidden

agenda nor want anything.

To combat the problem is the central issue not who, where, or if the

percentage is 10 % or 25 %. Please do not get off track from the

problem. By the way 25% means presently active or in recovery. I do

stand by my statistics but realize now after several attacks that the

research should be done by the Little People themselves in order for

you to see you're dealing with a world wide problem that also affects

your group. Thank you for writing and I support your own research.

My Best Regards,

biffycomp@...

>

> ---I'm still curious as to how you arrived at the statistics you

> posted previously -

>

> " Approximately 25% of dwarfs have a chemical dependency problem. "

>

> Someone else asked how many dwarfs had participated in this study

and

> I haven't seen a response.

>

> On this you may reply to the whole list, I suspect I'm not the only

> one who is curious.

>

>