Victory / Neurogenic Inflammation, C-Fibers, Substance P, Vagal Nerve, etc.

[Guest guest]

Hello,

I belong to this group, the MCS, CFS, Gulf War, and Fibro group. These are all

related illnesses in my opinion. I've learned a great deal my reading all of

them.

Ultimately, I believe my sensitivity is to mold, or some related neurotoxin -

could just be a solvent - who knows. I sustained a solvent exposure in 2007 as a

result of nasally inhaling some at 100% concentrate. My life has been jacked

since.

I'm proud to say I just actually BEAT unknown particle X - in one room of my

house. I moved homes and somehow cross-contaminated my new living room. I

didn't go in the room for a month. I took all the furniture out, washed the

floors about 10 times with a really decent steam vac, washed the walls, and did

this over and over for about two months. Everytime I worked in there, I got the

brain fog, nerve impulses, etc. It was really pretty dreadful. I came to the

conclusion that mold was coming from one wall where we had the couch up against.

I painted that wall four times.. It did get better, but it wasn't perfect. I

then painted the whole room. Got a little bit better.. Then I found an ultra

thin vinyl wall material that I used to simply cover the wall like wall paper

(think giant clear wall decal). It does have an adhesive back, but that part is

against the wall anyways. I finally got my room back. First time I was ever

successful. It's amazing what one little area of this neurotoxin can do.

I am always curious in the group why we never talk about what I think is the

real cause of all of this, and obviously you are free to disagree. If you read

about gulf war syndrome, many say they worked with and inhaled pesticides. MCS

people say they were exposed to solvents intranasally - often in one significant

event. Mold people often say they were in WDB's. Fibro people say it can

result from injury or car accidents or traumatic experiences. If you look at

all of these situations, our encounters are injuring some aspect of our nervous

system and I think most often related to our upper and lower airway nasal

mucosa.

I believe the problem is that many of us damage our nasal mucosa which is

innervated by MANY A and C fibers. " A " fibers are for super sharp shooting

pains. C fibers are slow dull pain. C fibers are not myelinated and can easily

be damaged. If we can injure them, we can increase their sensitivity to

stimulus - like neurotoxins, solvents. In fibro patients, the stimulus is

simply " touch " , just like patients with Complex Regional Pain syndrome.

So, c fibers are stimulated, substance p, prostoglandins, TNF, CGRP, and

cytokines are released and it results in inflammation. Those nerve fibers up in

the nose carry information to the vagal nerve, the longest nerve in the body,

all throughout, and up the medulla to the brain. Causing all of our problems.

If you take NMDA antagonists (dextromethorphan), GABA agonists (clonazepam), you

can downregulate the sensitivity of these nerve impulses - google Dr.

Cheney Klonopin. If I understand this correctly, when a C fiber is

hypersensitive, a magnesium ion can be pushed out of the way much more easily

and an influx of calcium ions can occur resulting in the reaction. The drugs

mentioned above, all attack one portion of that process leading to C fibers

firing, and actually, they can cross talk with A fibers too. That is why Fibro

patients are taking Lyrica, and Neurontin before that.

I like this link:

http://physiologyonline.physiology.org/content/23/6/360.full

Have you ever bought sinus buster - a capsaicin nasal spray and shot it up your

nose? It's at Walgreens.. It depletes substance P - P stands for PAIN. Have

you ever shot lidocaine nasal spray up your nose and went into an area you know

that causes your symptoms to flare? Guess what, I have... and I didn't have a

reaction. Do you know why, because all of my calcium channels were blocked and

no nerve impulses could be sent. When the lidocaine wore off, did I feel it???

Why yes I did.

I wish we talked more about the science of this in this group. What we're

hearing that might make life more tolerable and what we're hearing or doing to

find a cure. The answer lies in - What can I do to restore my damaged nasal

mucosa or what can I take to downregulate the reaction. What can I shove up my

nose to prevent mold from landing on my nasal mucosa? I'm 31, I'm frustrated,

and I've learned a lot from this group. I clock a lot of hours with a lot of

doctors, a lot of hours online, and I just wish we could think outside the box a

bit, and start coming up with some solutions.

Best Regards,

Tom

[Guest guest]

Substance P is a neuropeptide.

>

> Hello,

>

> I belong to this group, the MCS, CFS, Gulf War, and Fibro group. These are all

related illnesses in my opinion. I've learned a great deal my reading all of

them.

>

> Ultimately, I believe my sensitivity is to mold, or some related neurotoxin -

could just be a solvent - who knows. I sustained a solvent exposure in 2007 as a

result of nasally inhaling some at 100% concentrate. My life has been jacked

since.

>

> I'm proud to say I just actually BEAT unknown particle X - in one room of my

house. I moved homes and somehow cross-contaminated my new living room. I

didn't go in the room for a month. I took all the furniture out, washed the

floors about 10 times with a really decent steam vac, washed the walls, and did

this over and over for about two months. Everytime I worked in there, I got the

brain fog, nerve impulses, etc. It was really pretty dreadful. I came to the

conclusion that mold was coming from one wall where we had the couch

[Guest guest]

Tom, the nerve damage and mucosal damage has been covered quite a bit in this

group.

alot of meds can adversedly affect the nervious system ,be careful.

calonzapam was about the only med I could tolerate for along time after exposure

but even it affected in a way that it just knocked me out for 14 hours at a

time, could only take it at night, but I was very sleep deprived so that was

probably a good thing.

the affects of it that you discribe might be why. makes sence, but

there were pain killers I tried that had bad effects on my nerves so

I dont get into this dicussion much because you never know what one can tolerate

and what they cant.

as far as blocking nerve impluses, I dont know that thats a great idea,

sometimes it's better to suffer effects and learn what you need to avoid,

exspecially if you suffer loss of smell, distorted smell,

and blocking nerve impluses doesn't mean your blocking the exposure,

it seems regular use might cause more harm than good, nerve effects are not the

only thing we suffer from so you have to look at the whole picture, just my

thoughts.

capsaicin has been used to induce caughing in some lung studies, haveing RADS I

dont think thats what I need.

while I can now injoy a little horseradish or peppers and it helps clear my

sinuses, I still take it easy on the stuff do to stomach damage. I think some

capsaicin is good for everyone but maybe shouldn't get to carried away, they use

it in pepper spray and it burns, just watched a show the other night on it.

pretty interesting,

but even those who work with it in a very strong strenght have to wear masks. I

just dont know if shooting it up the nose very often would be a good thing to

do.

I have heard before that eating alot of really hot peppers can basicly distroy

your taste buds, ? thats capsaicin. I just dont think thats a good idea, but

interested on hearing other points of view.

like I said, I actually now like a little every once in awhile to make my nose

run and eyes water and clears my sinuses.

I stayed away from spicey stuff for years because of my stomach problems from my

exposure, never really like anything to hot, but now my sence of smell and taste

is off and I can tolerate alittle spiceyness as long as I drink some milk along

with it, still sometimes not what my stomach deals with to well so I cant do it

very often.

did the capsaicin nasal spray burn or cause eyes to water or caughing in the

lungs?

to me it just seems that something that would block the effects of a exposure

would be like haveing lossed sence of smell in a way that you could be getting a

worse exposure and not realize it to get away from it sooner. see what I'm

saying? that doesn't mean your not getting exposed to the toxin just because

you've blocked out the nerve responce.

>

> Hello,

>

> I belong to this group, the MCS, CFS, Gulf War, and Fibro group. These are all

related illnesses in my opinion. I've learned a great deal my reading all of

them.

>

> Ultimately, I believe my sensitivity is to mold, or some related neurotoxin -

could just be a solvent - who knows. I sustained a solvent exposure in 2007 as a

result of nasally inhaling some at 100% concentrate. My life has been jacked

since.

>

....snip