RE: OKC exercises vs CKC exercises

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Layman's question here: You state that the concept of kinetic chains is " a very

valuable concept. " May I ask how, exactly, it is valuable in the physical

world, beyond being merely interesting?

I sincerely have no idea how or where this open/closed chain business has any

relevance. I'm sure it does have it, but I am at a loss as to what it is.

Thanks for your time

Pérez

Reynosa, Mexico

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________________________________

From: Supertraining [mailto:Supertraining ] On

Behalf Of Casler

Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 6:21 PM

To: Supertraining

Subject: OKC exercises vs CKC exercises

W.G.

Personally I don't advocate or do OKC exercises. Nor do my athletes

while executing my training program.

Hi Bill,

I saw your post here and thought I might comment on it, as Open and Closed

Kinetic Chain Exercises are not " inherently bad or good or better or worse

than each other " .

The reason I say this is that " someone " including P Chek from the post

below has " misinterpreted " what Steindler was trying to say, and how Kinetic

Chains " Open and Close " .

Somehow " single joint machine exercises " have become " OPEN " and multi-joint

Weight Loaded Exercises have become CLOSED. This is not true to the

original

concepts by the creator.

An " OPEN " Kinetic chain is simply a Kinetic Chain that has a fixed or

base and the other end is free to move.

OR " both " ends are free to move, as in actions while in the air like diving,

trampolining, or even in water like swimming, where all joints are free to

move and not terminated by a definable resistance/load.

A " CLOSED " chain is a Kinetic Chain that has a " FIXED " base at one end and

is restricted or encounters resistance at the other.

The greater the resistance to the " terminal " joint the more it becomes

closed, until it is completely closed by encountering complete restriction.

A Completely Closed Chain would have both ends of the chain " fixed " by

immovable loads.

It has nothing to do with how long the chain, or where the load is

encountered, the chain runs from the fixed base to the load, in a Closed

Chain, and from one end to the free moving joint in the Open Chain.

This means that basically ALL weight training exercises that have a " fixed

base " and encounter a " load or resistance " are CLOSED. Yes even those crazy

leg extensions and leg curls, are CLOSED as long as a load is encountered

" closing " the chain.

Only, if the terminal joint(s) are free to move like waving your hand, is

the action OPEN. As soon as you place a load or weight on/in the hand that

" restricts " its movement will the chain begin to close and is considered a

CLOSED CHAIN.

The most funny interpretation is the aforementioned Leg (or Knee) Extension.

You are sitting on and firmly creating a " fixed base " and the load is

applied to the to the ankle or shin, restricting the knee joint and thereby

" closing " the Chain.

Allow me to comment on Chek's misinterpretations:

From: Chek

Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997

Subject: Open vs Closed chain exercise

Regarding Muller's question:

What do " open kinetic chain " and " closed kinetic chain " mean?

The terms " Open and Closed Kinetic Chain " were developed by Dr.

Steindler and my recollection of the first published item referring to

the terms is " Text Book Of Kinesiology " , published in 1956. Because I

am currently in Australia lecturing and running internships I don't

have access to my library and can't give you the publisher although it

is long out of print.

To simplify the terms, OPEN KINETIC CHAIN exercises are those

exercises in which the force applied by the body is great enough to

overcome the resistance. An example of an open chain exercise would be

a bench press, or any leg press which allows the force applied to move

the load away from the body.

Casler writes:

This is incorrect. The MAIN requirement for an open chain is that there IS

NO RESTRICTION or load.

A Bench Press IS a closed chain with a fixed base at the shoulders and a

Closing Load at the hands (terminal joint)

Leg Press is also CLOSED for the same reason. DEAD BUG is an Open Chain.

Lying BICYCLES are Open Chains. Jumping Jacks are OPEN chains (except for

the

exact moment when both feet are on the floor and you are observing the

chain from one foot to the other.

It is important that you understand also that there can be many Kinetic

Chains running through the body, and it is also important to know that they

can transition from open to closed simply by encountering or losing a

restrictive load.

Chek continues:

In contrast, CLOSED KINETIC CHAIN EXERCISES are those in which the

force applied is not great enough to overcome the resistance. Examples

would be the push-up and squat exercises. To clarify for the novice

list reader, even though the load applied during the squat is on the

body, the force generated is applied to the ground, not the bar. To

move the bar, the lifter must apply a force against the earth great

enough to overcome the resistance created by the load on the bar.

Casler writes:

Again this is slightly in error. Over coming the resistance DOES NOT OPEN

the chain. Encountering the resistance load begins closing it, and IF the

resistance is immovable then it is a completely Closed Chain. As long as

the resistance " restricts free movement " then the Chain is Closed.

While is correct that there is a closed chain in the pushup he doesn't

disclose where it is. Same for the squat.

Where is the closed chain in the push up? In the squat?

In the push up it is from HAND TO HAND and HAND TO FEET. In the squat FROM

FOOT TO FOOT

Now if we are observing the squat without a bar, or weight, then the foot to

head chain is also OPEN. If we add a bar, to the shoulders, then the Chain

is

Closed at the terminal joint where the bar rests. If they are dumbbell

squats then it runs from feet to hands.

Chek continues:

How this information is relevant to Muller's questions

regarding knee extensions as a means of improving squat strength:

The knee extension is performed such that the thigh is fixed to the

machine, while the knee extension force generated by the quadriceps

serves to move the tibia across the femur. In a squat, the trunk, hip

and knee extensors act as

prime movers, moving the femur across the tibia, which is the fixed

distal segment (along with the foot) in this closed kinetic chain

exercise. The relevance here lies in the fact that the motor

recruitment patternsfor the knee extension are 180 degrees out of

phase with the recruitment patterns activated by the CNS to perform

the squat.

Casler writes:

I wonder what this is all about but I think maybe had labeled the

Knee Extension as an OPEN Kinetic Chain, which is it is not. It has a

restrictive load as mentioned above.

For some reason the Cheks and others decided that Open Chain actions are

" less " desirable and transferable, than Closed Chains and that is not true.

It is the incorrect usage and assignment of the terms and values they

represent.

Chek continues:

Another classic exampleis the difference between

performing a lat pull down and a chin-up. Any serious climber will

tell you that there is a huge difference in the strength

quality necessary to perform a closed chain pull-to-press over a rock

ledge and an open chain lat pull down. "

Casler writes:

is in error again.

Both the Chin and the Pulldown have Closed Chains, but doesn't know

where they are.

In the Chin, the CLOSED chain runs from one hand to the other. In fact,

since the feet are " free to move " the Chain from the hand to the feet is

OPEN.

In the pulldown we have the same " hand to hand " Closed Chain, but we also

have a fixed hip area making the hand to hips also CLOSED.

Chek continues:

It is this very point which must be considered when designing

resistance training programs for athletes. If for example you use an

open chain leg press in attempt to develop explosive strength for

sprinting, you will NEVER achieve optimal performance. To shed further

light on this potentially " very deep subject " , when training a

cyclist, you have carryover from both open chain and closed chain

exercises due to the very nature of cycling (pushing the pedal down

from a seated position vs. standing and driving a big gear or

during an intense hill climb).

Casler writes:

This demonstrates that has no idea what constitutes an open and closed

chain. He also has promoted one over the other as " valuable or preferable "

and that may not be the case based on his " mix up " of terms.

These concepts are simply to provide a visualization and blue print of the

creation, transmission, and absorption of force in the body. The are not

used to categorize " Good and Bad " exercises or chains.

Chek continues:

I choose this example because this is where Open and Closed Chain have

a grey area:

Initially, when the cyclist stands up to drive downward on the pedal,

his body may momentarily move away from the pedal, until the arms

counter the upward movement of the body - turning the movement into an

open chain movement as the pedal descends away from the body.

Casler writes:

In competitive cycling using strap in pedals the CLOSED CHAIN is very clear

and runs from one foot to the other. No Grey Area here. It is as simple as

Steindler's chains when walking. Open when one foot is off the ground,

closed when they both are on the ground.

In cycling since both feet encounter load, the chain from foot to foot is

closed. If as mentioned earlier you were lying on the floor with no

bicycle, but raise your feet in the air and perform a bicycle action it is

OPEN.

Chek continues:

The same

scenario can be developed for a boxer punching an opponent in the

head; the chain is closed upon contact, yet opens as the force of the

arm overcomes the momentary resistance created by the head (a concept

I am very familiar with by the way!). This is why boxers can be seen

doing both open and closed chain exercises in their training programs,

if their coach knows what he is doing!

Casler writes:

Finally he is right that the moment of contact " closes " the chain, but it

only " opens " when the punching hand is free to move unrestricted, NOT when

it simply overcomes the resistance. Steindler even used the example of

pushing a cart as a closed chain and obviously if you can push it, you have

overcome the load.

Chek continues:

In bodybuilding, the concept of open and closed chain is far less

relevant because there is no athletic component to bodybuilding; the

goal being to have the biggest muscles, the best proportions and a

good posing routine.

Bodybuilders can benefit greatly from this information though, as

alternating between open and closed chain exercises serves to more

fully develop both the nervous system and musculature due to the

variety of recruitment patterns needed.

Casler writes. There are very few OPEN chain exercises that might be

valuable to BodyBuilding with maybe the exception of one hand or one legged

actions (without load)

Chek continues:

To give another illustration that may help clear the confusion,

Casler writes:

Oh Boy after all that obfuscation? (Sorry )

Chek continues:

consider that running is a closed chain dominant exercise (you apply

force against the earth and you move),

Casler writes:

99% incorrect. The Earth has NOTHING to do with Kinetic Chains. And Most

running is totally OPEN CHAIN with the very small amount of time when " both "

feet are on the ground at the same time.

Chek continues:

while cycling is predominantly

an open chain exercise(press on the pedal and it moves away from you).

Casler writes:

As explained above, the majority of cycling is CLOSED, and it has NOTHING to

do with load moving away from you. Anyone who has ever cycled also knows

that as one pedal is moving away, the other is moving toward you. Go figure

what he means by that.

Chek continues:

If there was any real transfer of strength qualities and skills

developed, Carl would make a hell of a track cyclist and the

Race Across America would probably be won by an ultra distance runner,

or vice versa.

Casler writes:

Kinetic Chains are not qualified by " transference " of qualities. That has

NOTHING to do with defining these chains.

Chek continues:

There are many other factors I could go into but it is dinner time!

This information should be standard to all who prescribe exercises.

The reasons above should make it obvious why!!

Sincerely,

Chek MSS,HHP,NMT

Casler writes:

The scary thing is that what has stated above is accepted as correct,

when it is fraught with errors, misunderstanding, and mis-interpretation of

the true concepts.

Further it has be promoted by many who don't know of the correct

interpretation, and is now used as an evaluation that IS NOT true to the

original and very valuable concept.

Mel Siff????

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