Cross contamination

[Guest guest]

Have you tried the gfcfkids group? That's a very helpful place to ask

around. We do a lot of mail order from Miss Robens and Glutenfree pantry.

[Guest guest]

When I moved from my contaminated condo in with a friend as I stated in one of

my previous posts not knowing anything about mold I accidentally cross

contaminated their house. Realizing what I had done I completely freaked out and

paid for an industrial hygienist to come out to their home and take some air

samples, after 10 days of waiting for the results the IH said the mold spore

levels were some of the lowest he'd ever seen and that I didn't have anything to

worry about in terms of them becoming ill but yet what few micotoxins that were

in their house was just enough to make me sick. Keep in mind that when I moved I

only took a few clothes with me and my dog which was just enough to effect me

but not anyone else.

Depending on your hypersensitivity it could only take the smallest amount of

micotoxins in the air that's making you sick. Once your system becomes

compromised you could react to just about anything which not only takes time to

figure but money.

About the only thing that goes through my mind is " how do I limit my exposure? "

It takes allot of thinking ahead and planning but after awhile you'll get good

at it and it'll all be second nature.

>

> To add more to the chaos.. so sorry to be writing so much..

>

> We are thinking of clearing out of the house and moving .. I have been told by

others not to take anything..

>

> I dont think we had long term air contamination.. possible 3 months, maybe

less.. just the 5-6 days the knee wall was exposed.. ??

>

> I forgot to say that I did have the inspector back last week about 4 months

after remediation... air great.. but stachy low levels in carpet leading out of

master bathroom..

>

> inspector says just use a hepa vac.. I am at this point freakng out about

those spores and wondering where else there are spores and worried about how to

take care of them and if we do move out if ont for the hosue, for the woods and

outdoor air quality.. there is concern we will cross contaminate whereever we

move.. our car, etc...

>

> are there some guidelines... inspector acts like no big deal and i would love

for this to be no big deal.

>

> At least remove the carpet? What about bedding in the master bedroom at

least.. ?? anything cloth? not cloth OK?

>

> Can you get rid of stachy.. i am realising aspergillus penicillum is part of

our out door air and about nothing to do about that but the austin airs and hepa

vac.. is stachy different?

>

> Thanks so much. I am alarmed and close to OCD about this and sure do need to

hear some good balanced informtation.

>

> Thank you!

>

> Robin

>

[Guest guest]

Tug, how do you know you cross contaminated their house, thats pretty unlikely.

and how do you know that you were reacting to mycotoxins and not some of their

purfumes or household cleaning products?

I dont know how can could conclude this, please tell me.

you mean your cloths and dog were dropping mycotoxins all over their house? or

what? was your cloths growing mold?

>

> When I moved from my contaminated condo in with a friend as I stated in one of

my previous posts not knowing anything about mold I accidentally cross

contaminated their house. Realizing what I had done I completely freaked out and

paid for an industrial hygienist to come out to their home and take some air

samples, after 10 days of waiting for the results the IH said the mold spore

levels were some of the lowest he'd ever seen and that I didn't have anything to

worry about in terms of them becoming ill but yet what few micotoxins that were

in their house was just enough to make me sick. Keep in mind that when I moved I

only took a few clothes with me and my dog which was just enough to effect me

but not anyone else.

>

> Depending on your hypersensitivity it could only take the smallest amount of

micotoxins in the air that's making you sick. Once your system becomes

compromised you could react to just about anything which not only takes time to

figure but money.

>

> About the only thing that goes through my mind is " how do I limit my

exposure? " It takes allot of thinking ahead and planning but after awhile you'll

get good at it and it'll all be second nature.

[Guest guest]

The clothes were neither moldy or musty smelling, the crawl space in my condo

had several water intrusions that went on for months before I moved into it. The

clothes were in the closet which was located on the second floor and I'm sure

they were getting me sick. Perhaps you can explain to me how cross contamination

works, I was under the impression that when you took a contaminated item into a

non contaminated enviornment you ran the risk of cross contamination.

My girl friend for instance only had her clothes in the condo but when she moved

back in with her old roommate because she became ill as well she I'm assuming

cross contaminated her furniture with her contaminated clothes. I'm hoping that

I've been wrong all this time about cross contamination and how it works

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Tug, did your cloths have any kind of smell to them that you could detect? I did

give some of my thoughts on cross contamination in the prior post. mainly on

possabilities of mold and mycotoxin cross contamination, which doesn't cover

everything involved in WDB's

I mainly talked about those because I was responding to your thoughts

of cross contamination mainly by mycotoxins.

there are probably some mycotoxins in every home, tracted in on shoes,in

dust,ect. but weither there could of been the possability of weither you brought

in a high amount of mycotoxins with you to cause a cross contamination problem

to me seems unlikely.

and mold spores need moisture to grow.

however I can see where a combination of all that was in your WDB

could have caused your cloths to be contaminated and that by setting on a couch

or stuffed chair or even by wearing contaminated night cloths to bed, there

could have been a contact to contact rubbing off effect that could leave behind

anough smell/contamination that it could bother you, but not someone who hasn't

been exposed in a WDB.

like I said before, kindof like someone with purfume on their cloths or

arms,ect. might leave behind the smell of their purfume on the furniture they

sat on or bed they slept in.

so in a way that is cross contamination, but it probably wont affect anyone that

isn't hypersensity to those smells. or sensitive to some degree.

and even if it's from what came from your WDB , the chances of it causeing

contamination issues beyond that would be slim if any.

mycotoxins do not grow and produce more mycotoxins, mold grows and produces

mycotoxins, and it needs a moisture sorce to grow.

like purfume smells left behind on coucches by the people wearing them, that

smell can fade away with time, however, if you go to someones house who wears

alot of purfume or colone, their couch and chair well make you just as sick as

smelling them well make you.

with of repeated setting on a couch with purfume or colone on it could take a

lot longer for that kind of contamination to go away.

say you took a couch from your WDB dried it out good and put it in your new

home. if it still smells, it's going to still bother you,

even if it doesn't have a reaconizable smell, theres still a chance that the

dried mold fragments, toxins,ect. from your WDB well still be there and could

become airborne everytime you plop on the couch, this is also going to make you

ill, it's a re-exposure.

plus surface contamination to the material is going to affect you regardless of

how much dust got imbedded into the stuffing.

plus that airborne dust would land elsewhere, the carpet or whatever.

if there than became a moisture sorse it could grow mold, but every house, no

matter how clean has dust and mold fragments,ect. that could start mold growth

with moisture applied.

so in that sence you could say the every house is cross contaminated and primed

to grow mold with moisture applied.

so, I dont know if we could really call that cross contamination.

based on what you've said, it seems that any cross contamination issues would

have accured from contact of WDB contaminated cloths in contact with

non-contaminated items, which could cause you further reactions but really

wouldn't cause a contamination that would affect others or make their home

unlivable.

I know that when you first posted about this friends house, you stated that some

people there were not felling well, they must of had a bug or something. seems

unlikely that it would have been cause by you and cross contamination.

I had a small chaise lounge that I was deturmined to save, I set it outside in

the sun and beat the holy crap out of it with a broom,several times,turned it

upside down and beat on it some more.

than I used a wet wash rag to washed the material as best I could,with the

ammonia and dawn dish soap and hot water about as hot as I could stand it and

let it dry in the sun.

lol's, the neighbors probably thought I was nuts.

it didn't have a hudge layer of padding. I had recovered it before and if all

else failed I would have striped it down and recoved it again. however, I had no

furthure problems with being able to tolerate it in my space.

so you just never know. I would not even attemp this with regular couches or

stuffed chairs. this was just something that was special to me with memories

attached that I just couldn't bring myself to throw away. it took alot of effort

to save it but it worked.

not saying it well work for everyone.

if my thoughts about cross contamination issues are wrong,I'm sure I well have a

leture comeing.

and this is wearing me out so I've got to take a break on replying to posts and

emails for awhile.

remember that my views are just that, my views. doesn't men I'm always right,

and my views are subject to change, as thats really the only way to gain more

knowledge, and theres so much to it all that it can be overwelming, exspecially

to new comers.

just tring to make sence of it all just like everyone else.

>

>

>

> The clothes were neither moldy or musty smelling, the crawl space in my condo

had several water intrusions that went on for months before I moved into it. The

clothes were in the closet which was located on the second floor and I'm sure

they were getting me sick. Perhaps you can explain to me how cross contamination

works, I was under the impression that when you took a contaminated item into a

non contaminated enviornment you ran the risk of cross contamination.

>

> My girl friend for instance only had her clothes in the condo but when she

moved back in with her old roommate because she became ill as well she I'm

assuming cross contaminated her furniture with her contaminated clothes. I'm

hoping that I've been wrong all this time about cross contamination and how it

works

[Guest guest]

Sue, its hard to say whether it worked or not. The hard surfaces like the

dinning room table or the desk that Im currently using dont bother me at all but

this house has had so many other mold issues like i said is hard to tell.

You also have to remember that the furniture that was remediated was never in my

moldy condo it was or may have been cross contaminated by my g/f's clothes which

was in the moldy condo.

The remediator charged us a around $450 and was here about 7 hours which after

calling around was the best deal that I could get. We also put most of the

furniture outside in the sun for a day before we moved it inside. If it was up

to me I would have left it outside for a week but my G/F wouldn't hear of it and

we were getting intermittent rain showers all week long.

>

> Dave,

>

> did the hepa cleaning of the sofas seem to work for you? also, out of

> curiosity, what did they charge for that service? The remediator out

> here wants $100 per hour to clean.... sue v

>

>

> >

> >Once she sold her house she put all of her belongings in a POD knowing

> >that she would remove them once she found a new place to buy. Not

> >wanting to take any chances once we found the house were living in now

> >we hired a mold remediation company to come in wipe everything down and

> >hepa vac the two sofas that came from her old house which seems to have

> >worked to a certain degree.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

In my opinion, the concern with cross-contamination has to do with the toxins

that the mold puts out. Yes, there is mold everywhere, but there are not toxins

everywhere. Toxins are like " poison " and living with a " little bit of poison " is

never a good idea for us severe reactors or even for healthy folks. From what I

was told, even a normal, healthy body will eventually be affected by toxins.

Carl, Dr. Thrasher am I right about that? Thanks~ D

>

> I have been thinking a lot about cross contamination myself. Since none

> of my family are hypersensitive and aware when a substance whether it be

> mycotoxins or something else is bothering us, I decided early on not to

> stress over cross contamination which will surely happen, because the

> stress is a huge burden on health and the whole illness and move and

> everything already created so much stress, and to focus instead on

> finding " safer " rather than " perfect " . This may or not be a good

> decision. But the more thinking I have done on the subject, the more I

> think about the fact that " mold is everywhere " and a necessary part of

> the ecology of the earth....I am thinking that the cross contamination

> thing is somewhat like the " terrain theory " vs. the " germ theory " , germs

> are everywhere yet not everyone gets sick from them, so " terrain "

> matters hugely---in other words " healthy body " ....I think it must be

> similar with mold/mycotoxins: " mold is everywhere " and avoiding " cross

> contamination " is very difficult and only necessary for people who are

> hypersensitive.... I am not saying stop trying to avoid cross

> contamination, but I am thinking that building up and strengthening the

> body so it can handle a little cross contamination might be another

> strategy, so the healing approach to mold illness might be " avoidance

> where possible " and " strengthen the terrain " . I am sure everyone is

> trying to do both these things, so I really haven't said anything new,

> but I had been thinking about the parallels to the germ vs. terrain

> theory lately and thought I'd express that. >

> >

> >

> >Cross contamination has always been a question/concern of mine. I've

> >moved 4 times in the past month each time feeling better for the first

> >few days than I become symptomatic again. Each time I've moved I've

>

[Guest guest]

I am going to say it one more time. Mycotoxins are not the only contaminants

present in the indoor environment. There are by-products of fungi and bacteria.

You may be responding adversely to any or all of these.

[] Re: Cross contamination

In my opinion, the concern with cross-contamination has to do with the toxins

that the mold puts out. Yes, there is mold everywhere, but there are not toxins

everywhere. Toxins are like " poison " and living with a " little bit of poison " is

never a good idea for us severe reactors or even for healthy folks. From what I

was told, even a normal, healthy body will eventually be affected by toxins.

Carl, Dr. Thrasher am I right about that? Thanks~ D

>

> I have been thinking a lot about cross contamination myself. Since none

> of my family are hypersensitive and aware when a substance whether it be

> mycotoxins or something else is bothering us, I decided early on not to

> stress over cross contamination which will surely happen, because the

> stress is a huge burden on health and the whole illness and move and

> everything already created so much stress, and to focus instead on

> finding " safer " rather than " perfect " . This may or not be a good

> decision. But the more thinking I have done on the subject, the more I

> think about the fact that " mold is everywhere " and a necessary part of

> the ecology of the earth....I am thinking that the cross contamination

> thing is somewhat like the " terrain theory " vs. the " germ theory " , germs

> are everywhere yet not everyone gets sick from them, so " terrain "

> matters hugely---in other words " healthy body " ....I think it must be

> similar with mold/mycotoxins: " mold is everywhere " and avoiding " cross

> contamination " is very difficult and only necessary for people who are

> hypersensitive.... I am not saying stop trying to avoid cross

> contamination, but I am thinking that building up and strengthening the

> body so it can handle a little cross contamination might be another

> strategy, so the healing approach to mold illness might be " avoidance

> where possible " and " strengthen the terrain " . I am sure everyone is

> trying to do both these things, so I really haven't said anything new,

> but I had been thinking about the parallels to the germ vs. terrain

> theory lately and thought I'd express that. >

> >

> >

> >Cross contamination has always been a question/concern of mine. I've

> >moved 4 times in the past month each time feeling better for the first

> >few days than I become symptomatic again. Each time I've moved I've

>

[Guest guest]

That might be so, Tug.. how long have you stayed in one place?

I am reacting like crazy here.. possibly unmasking and detoxing.. I hope.. and

its so hard to tell if I am being triggered by places or not, not to mention

cross contamination.

Its just one big messy puzzle.

I just took 2 edta chelation complex tabs and my sinus brain inflammation went

down dramatically.. now who would have thought.. metals moving?

The only reason I did is that these symptoms are very similar to when I took

nasal glut and IV glut and my brain inflammed. So I trialed the edta.

If I am in a clean enough place, I supposedly will start to detox exp given I am

addressing my methylation issues with the proper supps. Now I am wondering if I

need to back off of the dosing on some of them.

I was also taking chlorella in my mold house and stopped here. I think chlorella

binds more than it pulls and I need to find a way to work this into my regime

and see what happens.

Robin

>

>

>

>

> Cross contamination has always been a question/concern of mine. I've moved 4

times in the past month each time feeling better for the first few days than I

become symptomatic again. Each time I've moved I've thrown away my clothing and

bought new. The only thing that I have brought with me are my medications which

I thoroughly wipe down. The current hotel I'm staying at is 3 years old and

there has absolutely no signs of water damage anywhere, I'm thinking it's not my

current residence that's making me sick but rather the mycotoxins that are still

lingering in my system that are making me feel symptomatic if that's the case no

matter where I move to I'm going to feel symptomatic and time, medication, diet

and exercise are the only thing that's going to help.

>

> Tug

[Guest guest]

Tug's right, if your alone and you want to be extreme about things you can

run,run,run, all you want, but those who have children and other responablities

sometime figure out other alturnitives.

some people believe that it's all about mycotoxins and they are everywhere

contaminating and cross contaminating, it's just not true.

it is true that some people out there profit from the fear tactic,

there are people that just love when you walk away from everthing

and they can buy your home with your belongings at the cost of a few years of

taxes, or forclosure where the bank or whoever is going to sale as is at a very

cheap price to avoid being responceable for the next home owners illness. and if

you dont think this is happening ,think again, I know it is.

you throw your contaminated belongings in the trash and the trash men or trash

pickers well get it. happens all the time.

if you cant afford to remediate your home or belongings and possably let it set

awhile while you get some recovery and at a later date are able to tolerate your

home again, than you get to watch someone else buy and move into your home.

if you put all your belongings in storage and somewhere down the line while you

are trying to recover and can no longer afford to pay storage fees you can count

on the owner saleings your belongings after they have went through them and kept

anything of value.

extreme advoidance is no different from advoidance except that you choose to be

extreme about things. it doesn't mean your any sicker or well get any better any

faster, thats all about how much damage

accured during you from your initial exposure to your system and organs. thats

about toxicity, allergies and colonization.

some also beleve it's all about mycotoxins and only mycotoxins and they are

everywhere and at such great amounts that you have to go to extremes to save

yourself, thats not true either.

the reactions are inflammatory reactions, the intensity depends on

how badly organs were damaged . the intensity of inflammation is doubled when

your also colonized and tripled when your also allergic.

inflammation + inflammation + inflamation.

you get in this kind of shape and even non-toxic irritants can play hell with

you, try haveing your sinuses badly damaged and the pathway straight to your

brain.

the more damage your organs suffered and the more organs that suffered, the more

intence your reactions well be.

the worse the exposure the more likely that you well recieve tottal

organ damage vs. selective organ damage, the worse the exposure the worse the

damage well be to all your organs, the worse you well have inflammation and the

more intence reactions you will have to any or all those organs.

I spent 6+ years liveing in a home with mainly stachy, the dreaded black mold.

yes, mycotoxins exposure causes inflammation,and mold fragments, I know that

well. I also know very well the other effects it causes to my body and

I also know that it's very rarely that I have been re-exposed to those toxins

and suffered a relapse of those symptoms

that can last for around 2 months. and they are pretty specific symptoms.

it has happened about 3 times sence, once while a neighbor was redoing their

roof, once when I went to a home that I knew quickly had a several mold problem

and once when I was standing close the the porch of my former home and got a hit

from the slight breeze careing the toxins from the contaminated porch roof to

me.

and when it comes to just how much the mycotoxins affect your brain as in

cognitive wize, compared to voc's and other chemicals, I'd have to agree that

it's a small persentage compared to what the other toxins/voc's/chemicals can

do. but I can also say that they do affect your nerves but from my view, more

in the PNS than the CNS.

dose does matter, dose matters because the dose is what desides if your body can

deal with it or if it cant and when it cant, you can count on more damage, brain

barriors breaking down, ect.

it's the combination of it all that adds up that does the damage.

just like afterwards it's not just about mycotoxins, it's not just about mold.

the second exposure was ver different, it had high moisture, it no doubt had

many VOC's, off gassing chemicals, bacterias, ect. it tore my inside up, it was

not more organ specific it affected my whole body

it caused my allergic and non allergic hypersensitivies,menningitis,

chronic sinus problems, it caused me to be colonized,

inflammation+ inflammation+inflammation.

now if you become allergic, good luck running away from that.

if you become colonized, running is not going to do a damn thing for you but the

stress your adding to the situation well.

so theres a art of staying calm, not buying into the scare tactic and

useing your head to figure out what you need to do.

what you can deal with, what you cant.

and some of us who are severely injured cant deal with a lot of stress, weither

it's put on us by ourselves or from other people.

I'd really like to see the extremest stay in the extreme group and I'm growing

very tired of haveing to read post from people that have been to that group and

had the crap scared out of them than comeing here and , we get the job of trying

to calm them down.

I am tired of them bringing un-need stress to those who are here trying to help

people, who are also sick and dont need the stress.

I'm really close to just leaveing the group over this BS.

than the extremest can just scare everyone that comes here looking for advice

and help. they can set around and post about how they are so intencely more

reactive than than everyone else that they have to take such extreme measures to

survive. whatever!

even Dr. Shoemaker experments by haveing people re-enter their homes to see if

their symptoms come back after treatment, yet here we are forced to deal with

extremest saying run,run,run for your life,

re-exposures well kill you. dose does matter, sensitivitys get in the way of

judgement, the less the better. while if you dont manage to get a belonging

clean enough that you no longer react to it, it's not going to kill you to try.

if it still bothers you, get rid of it.

you will spend a certain amount of time reacting to many things, everywhere.

even new cloths.

truely I'd just be thrilled to death if the only thing I was reactive to was

mycotoxins. my life would be so much more manageable.

> >

> > I am new to this list, and fairly new to the surreal new world of mold.

> >

> > My question relates to the risks of cross-contamination.

> -snip

>

[Guest guest]

hey tug,

does washing the clothes work for you? do you still react?

what reactions did you get when your girlfriend arrived?

hope you are better now

denise

________________________________

From: Tug <tug_slug@...>

Sent: Mon, December 20, 2010 5:32:02 PM

Subject: [] Re: Cross contamination

Betsy I can only tell you what I did and how it worked for me, I'm sure others

will chime in with their own thoughts and opinions. I was living in a hotel with

all new things and was doing pretty good so I decided that provided my g/f take

all the necessary precautions she could come over and spend the weekend. Five

minutes after she put her contaminated clothing in a trash bag, took a shower

and put on all new clothing I became symptomatic again. I stayed in that hotel

room for another week and half and never felt like i did prior to her coming

over. I have since moved and rather than take the chance to bring my clothes

with me and not know if I was reacting to my new residence or to my clothes I

put all my clothes in a trash bag put them in the bed of my truck and bought all

new clothes. Now I have a room that I've yet to react to and I'm positive the

clothes I'm wearing aren't making me sick. It cost me about $200.00 to replace

everything but that's going as cheap as possible and buying things like sweats

then regular denim jeans. I still have a few more things to buy but I have

enough clothes to last me a week without having to do laundry. Some here will

say to replace your things some will say it isn't necessary, in the end it all

boils down to doing what you think is best for you.

Best of luck

>

> I am new to this list, and fairly new to the surreal new world of mold.

>

> My question relates to the risks of cross-contamination.

-snip

[Guest guest]

another thing is cross contamination, think about it, mold colonizes our homes

with moisture problems,food and the right conditions.

they colonize our bodies, they can colonize some of our belongings with the

right conditions,moisture,food supply, things that might retain moisture might

grow mold, mattresses, stuffed chairs,pillows,couches,ect.

in order for mold to produce mycotoxins it needs to grow.

how many people take belongings with them that have mold colonization?

why do people think that cross contamination is do to mycotoxins being put out

by a belongings thats dry?

here the only alternitive, dry toxic dust, including mycotoxins,

do you bring you icredably dusty toxic dust filled belongings into the middle of

your liveing room and jump on them, beat them with a broom to get the toxic dust

off inside your home or do you try to clean items in both these situations

outside?

one thing I was told was dont take stuffed furniture with you, no problem, I got

that, you cant clean the smell out of the stuffing.

I dont think to many people think about mold VOC's, and other voc's that may of

been in their WDB,

but I'm pretty convienced that smell that emmits from belongings is eactly that.

and voc's are going to make the air in your home unbreathable exspecially if

you've been damaged by mold and other voc's from your WDB exposure, is this

cross contamination, maybe if you take everything you own into a new place and

dont remove it and air out your house and the voc's contaminated (smell soaking

into fabrics,ect.) your other belongings. can you possably set on a stuffed

chair that ommiting voc's than set on another chair and contaminate it, I'd

guess so.

might you be able to save that chair that you cross contaminated with voc's by

setting outside, airing it out, or a possable cleaning it with a attachment on

your rug shampoo'er, thats pretty possable.

if you use cleaner that has other chemicals well you still be reactive to that

chair but be reacting to the cleaning chemicals and not the voc's from cross

contamination, probably so.

if the stuff chair that you first sit on is deeply inbeded ,holded moisture and

had actuall mold growth while in the WDB, would it be harder to remediate,

probably, if remediable at all, throw all stuffed furniture away if you think

it's contaminated to that extent.

cloths, blanket, things you can put in a washing machine, wash several times,

and things you can wash in a sink, things you can wash down with a wash rag

dipped often into a bowl of ammonia and dawn dish soap, all these things can be

savable, some things can be left outside and aired out and be ok. ammonia has

been a long time additive to use in washing machines to get hard to get smells

out of cloths,blankets,ect. and really, after it's been dried the ammonia smell

is not obvious at all,if it is to you wash again with just soap.

whats your guide to guessing as to just how bad your belongings are

contaminated, maybe your home ,you exposure, your symptoms,or even weither you

just have the energy to try to deal with it, the need, the lack of money,

friends that might help,ect.

probably the most important thing is to do it outside.

one thing that people do need to think about is how are mycotoxins causeing

cross contamination and if they really are.

and consider that fact that if you were exposed to mold voc's and any other

voc's that the voc's comeing off your belongs are going to cause a reaction and

this is not mycotoxins.

just something to think about.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the details. Internal colonization is also a consideration. Cutting

down on sugars helps all around if one is willing and able to do that. Good

probiotics!

I am not as sensitive as my son, so I made decisions on what to keep based on my

sense of smell and on other considerations like the value of the object and how

much soft material it contained, and how easy it would be to clean or replace

it. Fabrics also harbor pesticides so that is another reason to be careful.

Some items definitely had an objectionable odor, so I tossed them, even though

it was painful at times. Some of these items (books and linen)were in a WDB,

but did not make any contact with water. Chlorox in the wash water did not

always remove the odor. Many times it did however.

Our recent move has not completely successful but there is healing going on that

has put us in better shape than when we started. I hope it continues. My biggest

mistake was that I didn't clean out the baseboard electric heaters before we

moved in. The problem is that there was no better place for the sensitive folks

to live. There were many moisture problems in the house, but they were limited,

and could be contained thankfully. Unfortunately, we had to do this while

living in the home and we didn't know about all the problems at first. We moved

in during a cold spring time, so we had dry humidity at first and that seemed to

buy us some time. We did a blower test on the house to see how to insulate it.

I have no idea why my sensitive teen insisted on being in the house at that

time. That test pulls dusty stuff out of walls. We also had to paint the

exterior of the house (low odor exterior paints are still toxic). These were

unavoidable situation given our finances. A plumbing problem also set us back

for awhile. As for the baseboard heaters, I needed to actually take them apart

to clean them adequately but I didn't realize that one could take them apart.

We have been able to find many replacement items for belongings which were

discarded at thrift stores.

I believe that one can get less sensitive over time, especially if one is able

to sleep and eat, and then things get less tricky. I think one can feel good

about and be grateful for small victories. This is not an easy trial to endure.

Best wishes and Merry Christmas.

Kate

>

> another thing is cross contamination, think about it, mold colonizes our

homes with moisture problems,food and the right conditions.

> they colonize our bodies, they can colonize some of our belongings with the

right conditions,moisture,food supply, things that might retain moisture might

grow mold, mattresses, stuffed chairs,pillows,couches,ect.

> in order for mold to produce mycotoxins it needs to grow.

>snip

[Guest guest]

, when I feel my residence has been contaminated I don't take any chances.

I throw what few clothes I have in a trash bag and buy new clothes. I've tried

to wash a few things after my first exposure but it didn't work so now I just

toss everything and start all over from scratch.

The minute my g/f walked out of the shower I became dizzy and lightheaded and I

knew she somehow cross contaminated my hotel room. I slept with with the window

open the following week and it seemed to help somewhat but I was still

symptomatic that's when I knew I had to move and it would be awhile before I

could ask her over again.

For a weeks worth of socks, t-shirts and underwear it's cost me about $15.00.

Sweat pants costs about $7.00 a pair and sweat shirt costs $6.00. If it were

summer I could get away with spending much less on clothes but unfortunately

that's not the case.

Now that I've moved I'm feeling better but because I've been down this road

before I'm being cautious about becoming overly optomistic about my new hotel

room.

>

> hey tug,

>

> does washing the clothes work for you? do you still react?

> what reactions did you get when your girlfriend arrived?

> hope you are better now

> denise

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think you are exactly right-for some of us it's the devil you know rather than

the devil you don't know. I stayed in my house and worked through it. But even

now there has been random unfortunate exposures as there would have been in a

new home without any of my possessions.

I also feel the RUN! syndrome is also caused by the hysteria mold causes. That

panic when you step into your house not knowing if it's still safe is

tremendously stressful. I always feel like running but as I get better it

lessens.

Surella

>

> Tug's right, if your alone and you want to be extreme about things you can

run,run,run, all you want, but those who have children and other responablities

sometime figure out other alturnitives.

> some people believe that it's all about mycotoxins and they are everywhere

contaminating and cross contaminating, it's just not true.

>

><snip>

[Guest guest]

After mold, VOC's are my worst enemy. They don't get alot of print time here

because mold is our primary issue and VOC's are in some ways easier to avoid

than mold but when they are present I am so sick. I throw up and get jelly legs

when I'm in the presence of VOC's. New cars kill me as do any kind of new

plastic item. It's as serious and as damaging to me as mold.

>

> another thing is cross contamination, think about it, mold colonizes our

homes with moisture problems,food and the right conditions.

> they colonize our bodies, they can colonize some of our belongings with the

right conditions,moisture,food supply, things that might retain moisture might

grow mold, mattresses, stuffed chairs,pillows,couches,ect.

> in order for mold to produce mycotoxins it needs to grow.

> how many people take belongings with them that have mold colonization?

> why do people think that cross contamination is do to mycotoxins being put out

by a belongings thats dry?

> here the only alternitive, dry toxic dust, including mycotoxins,

> do you bring you icredably dusty toxic dust filled belongings into the middle

of your liveing room and jump on them, beat them with a broom to get the toxic

dust off inside your home or do you try to clean items in both these situations

outside?

>

> one thing I was told was dont take stuffed furniture with you, no problem, I

got that, you cant clean the smell out of the stuffing.

>

>

> I dont think to many people think about mold VOC's, and other voc's that may

of been in their WDB,

> but I'm pretty convienced that smell that emmits from belongings is eactly

that.

> and voc's are going to make the air in your home unbreathable exspecially if

you've been damaged by mold and other voc's from your WDB exposure, is this

cross contamination, maybe if you take everything you own into a new place and

dont remove it and air out your house and the voc's contaminated (smell soaking

into fabrics,ect.) your other belongings. can you possably set on a stuffed

chair that ommiting voc's than set on another chair and contaminate it, I'd

guess so.

> might you be able to save that chair that you cross contaminated with voc's by

setting outside, airing it out, or a possable cleaning it with a attachment on

your rug shampoo'er, thats pretty possable.

> if you use cleaner that has other chemicals well you still be reactive to that

chair but be reacting to the cleaning chemicals and not the voc's from cross

contamination, probably so.

>

> if the stuff chair that you first sit on is deeply inbeded ,holded moisture

and had actuall mold growth while in the WDB, would it be harder to remediate,

probably, if remediable at all, throw all stuffed furniture away if you think

it's contaminated to that extent.

> cloths, blanket, things you can put in a washing machine, wash several times,

and things you can wash in a sink, things you can wash down with a wash rag

dipped often into a bowl of ammonia and dawn dish soap, all these things can be

savable, some things can be left outside and aired out and be ok. ammonia has

been a long time additive to use in washing machines to get hard to get smells

out of cloths,blankets,ect. and really, after it's been dried the ammonia smell

is not obvious at all,if it is to you wash again with just soap.

>

> whats your guide to guessing as to just how bad your belongings are

contaminated, maybe your home ,you exposure, your symptoms,or even weither you

just have the energy to try to deal with it, the need, the lack of money,

friends that might help,ect.

> probably the most important thing is to do it outside.

>

> one thing that people do need to think about is how are mycotoxins causeing

cross contamination and if they really are.

>

> and consider that fact that if you were exposed to mold voc's and any other

voc's that the voc's comeing off your belongs are going to cause a reaction and

this is not mycotoxins.

>

>

> just something to think about.

>

[Guest guest]

no, most times you are exposed to mold, you are getting exposed to mold VOC's.

if it's wet and growing you are getting exposed to mold VOC's.

>

> After mold, VOC's are my worst enemy. They don't get alot of print time here

because mold is our primary issue and VOC's are in some ways easier to avoid

than mold but when they are present I am so sick. I throw up and get jelly legs

when I'm in the presence of VOC's. New cars kill me as do any kind of new

plastic item. It's as serious and as damaging to me as mold.

>

[Guest guest]

did you ever stop to think that it might be a shampoo or soap, creme rince,ect?

even if she used the exact thing you used it can smell stronger and affect you

more because it's on a different body with a different chemistry. happens to me

everytime my daughter takes a shower here and uses my stuff, open the window for

a little bit, stick a fan blowing the smell out.

why dont you wash them cloths your throwing away and give them to the poor.

>

>

> , when I feel my residence has been contaminated I don't take any

chances. I throw what few clothes I have in a trash bag and buy new clothes.

I've tried to wash a few things after my first exposure but it didn't work so

now I just toss everything and start all over from scratch.

>

> The minute my g/f walked out of the shower I became dizzy and lightheaded and

I knew she somehow cross contaminated my hotel room. I slept with with the

window open the following week and it seemed to help somewhat but I was still

symptomatic that's when I knew I had to move and it would be awhile before I

could ask her over again.

>

> For a weeks worth of socks, t-shirts and underwear it's cost me about $15.00.

Sweat pants costs about $7.00 a pair and sweat shirt costs $6.00. If it were

summer I could get away with spending much less on clothes but unfortunately

that's not the case.

>

> Now that I've moved I'm feeling better but because I've been down this road

before I'm being cautious about becoming overly optomistic about my new hotel

room.

[Guest guest]

Surella, I love reading your story, it gives me hope. Thank you, Tug

>

> I think you are exactly right-for some of us it's the devil you know rather

than the devil you don't know. I stayed in my house and worked through it. But

even now there has been random unfortunate exposures as there would have been in

a new home without any of my possessions.

>

> I also feel the RUN! syndrome is also caused by the hysteria mold causes. That

panic when you step into your house not knowing if it's still safe is

tremendously stressful. I always feel like running but as I get better it

lessens.

>

> Surella

[Guest guest]

sorry, that was rushed, the smell from mold is the mold voc's, MVOC'S.

that smell can get soaked into our belongings.

no, we dont here much about mold voc's. you cant really seperate mold voc's from

mold when it's active mold growth, thats what I meant to ask, how can you tell

the difference when your around mold if it's the mold or the

MVOC's but I understand that you were refering to other things that put out

voc's.

mycotoxins do not smell.

I do understand that those minus some conditions like RADS and severe sinus

problems would have a much harder time seeing the role the mold voc's play. I

believe they can be incredably damageing to tissues,organs. I dont understand

why they dont get more attn.

> >

> > After mold, VOC's are my worst enemy. They don't get alot of print time here

because mold is our primary issue and VOC's are in some ways easier to avoid

than mold but when they are present I am so sick. I throw up and get jelly legs

when I'm in the presence of VOC's. New cars kill me as do any kind of new

plastic item. It's as serious and as damaging to me as mold.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Your welcome, Tug, and have a wonderful holiday!

> >

> > I think you are exactly right-for some of us it's the devil you know rather

than the devil you don't know. I stayed in my house and worked through it. But

even now there has been random unfortunate exposures as there would have been in

a new home without any of my possessions.

> >

> > I also feel the RUN! syndrome is also caused by the hysteria mold causes.

That panic when you step into your house not knowing if it's still safe is

tremendously stressful. I always feel like running but as I get better it

lessens.

> >

> > Surella

>

[Guest guest]

I seem to have cross contaminated someones house just by visiting. Places where

I sat are causing issues. Any way to mitigate this cross contamination before it

grows bigger? Feel so bad.